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If you're POA, you must know the state of her finances, right? Can she afford to pay for another person? I'm concerned that (1) this person is taking financial advantage of your sister and (2) your sister will run out of money and won't be able to afford her AL and memory care in the future if she takes on financial responsibility for someone else.
There's also the matter of your sister's having Alzheimers and being incompetent to make decisions for herself. Is she incompetent?
Since you are POA, you have a fiduciary responsibility to protect your sister's assets for her own benefit.
Of course you shouldn't. That is why your sister made you her POA, so that when she was no longer able to make sound decisions for herself, that you would step up and make them for her. Well it's time to step up and make those sound decisions, and paying for her fiancé to move into the AL is not very sound. Plus with your sister having dementia she won't be in the AL much longer as sooner or later she'll have to be moved to a memory care unit or facility. As your sisters POA you are to use her money wisely and document every penny you spend and spending it on her "supposed" fiancé is not being very wise. So just tell your sister that you love her very much but that you won't be allowing her to spend her money on said fiancé.
Does this woman have dementia? How long has the man been with her? How much money in assets does she have? How well do you understand the job legally of a POA?
If she is wealthy and of sound mind she can do this. That's a lot of "ifs". You and sister should see an attorney first who will inform her that gifting means a 5 year lookback in which she cannot get governmental help should she gift to this extent. An attorney may help her arrange something into some sort of trust in which case sometimes the trust itself can take up paying for the loved one. But this is very delicate LEGAL stuff. She also could consider marriage and jointing their assets.
I think you perhaps now need a better grounding in acting as POA, what your rights and duties are, how to keep meticulous records, how to get patient examined for dementia and get the POA activated so you are sole signee on her assets and etc. That is if you still WANT this tough job. I did it once and would never do it again.
As to assets, as POA you should certainly have some idea what they are and where they are. So what are they. Because if she is of an age and doesn't have millions and millions, this isn't something she can AFFORD to do.
If she has a child who is POA then take this problem to that child; you won't have to be involved.
Welcome to the Forum. Remember, when you ask us a question such as this, the more information, for instance the mental acuity of this woman, the better we can answer your questions.
Does she have an actual diagnosis of ALZ? I'm asking because a diagnosis is what usually activates the authority. If your PoA authority is active, then the answer to your question is absolutely not. If your authority is no yet active, I would do this asap. Even before this happens, do whatever it takes to prevent her from doing this. How is this person a fiancee? FYI a PoA has no authority to prevent a person with dementia (even with a diagnosis) from getting married. Unbelievable, but true. Look it up to verify.
Probably not a good idea unless the situation is exceptional.
Is she still competent at times and generally makes reasonable requests?
Can she afford it?
If her partner is a generally self supporting informal caregiver who doesn’t need care themselves, adding them to her room wouldn’t be as expensive as paying for care for a second person in another room.
Would it benefit your sister?
Would having this person with her make it more likely that she could stay in AL rather than progress to memory care or skilled nursing?
If it benefits her and she can afford it, work with an attorney to make sure it is done right.
No you do not pay for her fiance to live at the AL. Why, because Sisters money is for her care. As Alva points out, if she ever needs Medicaid, she will be penalized because she has gifted money. And paying fiances way, would be considered gifting.
I had immediate POA for Mom so never had to invoke it. No one questioned my authority. Check your POA and see if its immediate or you need a doctor to declare her incompetent to make informed decisions. If you need a doctor to declare her, get it done.
Get yourself in the mindset that you are incharge. It does not matter what sister wants or does not want, your now incharge. She is no longer capable of making decisions in her best interest.
Another responder reminded me I missed the "alzheimer's component" here. So given that, no, she should no longer be making ANY decisions as regards her finances, bills and etc. You are POA. I will say again that it seems to me that you don't have a full understanding of POA, duties and responsibilities, so I would research all that online for your state and then see an elder law attorney to get this all activated and set up.
I just read this "fiance" is another resident. Does he also suffer from a Dementia?
I may talk to the Administrator about this. If the fiance also has Dementia maybe his POA and you could have a meeting with the Administrator present. You could voice your concerns and make sure his POA and you are on the same page. I would do the same thing if this man is competent. I would explain that your sister is asking you to pay his way. You have no idea where she got this idea but its not going to happen. You would appreciate if she she says something to him, he tell her she does not need to pay his way, he is OK. Tell him that when she asks you again you are to pay his way, you will tell her you two had a talk and he is fine financially and does not need her to pay for him. I may also ask that he not discuss marriage with her because with an ALZ diagnosis, she can't enter into a marriage.
As expressed in your last post in November, this man could be a con man. You may have to place your sister into MC eventually. Then it may be out of sight out of mind, hopefully. Or, he is running out of money and won't be there much longer.
Bboyfriend has Parkinson's and known her 4 mnths. Elder attu says she can control her $. Spoke with administrator and nixed them sharing a room. Cost to sister would have been 2000.more pm. Bf has ss only. They take 1000 pm from checking accnt. Bank says if she asks they have to give to her. She no longer speaks to me.
RedRobin The long and short here is that your mother is either suffering from dementia to the point of LEGAL incompetency or she is not. That is a legal definition. If she is legally incompetent in her own care you are responsible to act for and protect her legally. If she withdrew the POA, IS competent, and she won't speak to you (per your comment below) then you should be certain to resign POA (letter to her if she's competent) and through attorney if she is having dementia and you question her competence.
This comes down to a really simple either/or. She is legally competent under the law OR she is legally incompetent under the law. You can do nothing if she is competent. She MUST do everything if you are POA and she is legally incompetent (after examination and letter by two examining MDs.
Does she have a billion dollars in assets ? If no, then I wouldn’t follow the direction of someone whose brain is dying. Someone needs to be the adult here.
Yes! Indeed! It’s her money, her life and her ❤️love❣️ Honor Her Feelings🙏 “Maybe” consider a different solution tho…. “Maybe” they should get married…. I’m in a senior residence and so very lonesome and miss my husband soooo verrrrr much❣️
They can be together as much as they want without getting married. Why would anyone bother to get married at that age? I'm so sorry you are experiencing loneliness... your situation is a little different since you are actually already married.
Are you not her FPoA? "Elder attu says she can control her $." Did you ever present the attorney with the diagnosis of ALZ on the clinic letterhead and signed by her doctor? "Bank says if she asks they have to give to her. " If you are her FPoA have you ever taken the paperwork and the diagnosis letter to her bank to make your authority active so that even if she gets "married" she can't spend her money foolishly? Have you ever tried talking to the "fiancee's" family or PoA? Maybe you can appease her by offering to help plan the ceremony and the celebration, and have the wedding "officiant" not actually someone who can legally marry them, so not actually an officiant. You can have a document that declares they are officially A Couple, but don't use the word Marriage or Married.
"The key factor is whether the person with Alzheimer's has the mental capacity to understand what marriage means and the implications of entering into that commitment."
Elder Lawyer does not have the Medical Background to determine someone competent. You need to take your sister to a Neurologist and have him declare her incompetent to make informed decisions. If your POA requires this and its found she is incompetent then you take that letter to the lawyer and have your POA invoked. At that point you are in charge. If your POA is immediate, she may still be able to override u so you need that diagnosis in writing.
Really, a fiance in 4 months. You know he can't be all there either. You can get Dementia with Parkinsons. Does he have family you can talk to giving them a heads up.
I would not pay anything towards his room if they aren't married. Again, she may need Medicaid at some point, and paying for his room would be gifting.
And here's the rest of that paragraph from the browser search: "However, the capacity threshold is low..." Redrobin99, Instead of asking the attorney about the PoA and money management, ask the attorney about whether she can legally get married. Make sure to bring a copy of the diagnosis.
As cost of living and care can go up in AL facilities, and Medicaid and Medicare does not cover these costs, I would be very hesitant to use her funds to pay for someone else's care in the facility. Also, this could be considered mishandling her finances as her POA.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Being POA means you are the bad guy but, you are now the authority.
There's also the matter of your sister's having Alzheimers and being incompetent to make decisions for herself. Is she incompetent?
Since you are POA, you have a fiduciary responsibility to protect your sister's assets for her own benefit.
Well it's time to step up and make those sound decisions, and paying for her fiancé to move into the AL is not very sound.
Plus with your sister having dementia she won't be in the AL much longer as sooner or later she'll have to be moved to a memory care unit or facility.
As your sisters POA you are to use her money wisely and document every penny you spend and spending it on her "supposed" fiancé is not being very wise.
So just tell your sister that you love her very much but that you won't be allowing her to spend her money on said fiancé.
How long has the man been with her?
How much money in assets does she have?
How well do you understand the job legally of a POA?
If she is wealthy and of sound mind she can do this. That's a lot of "ifs". You and sister should see an attorney first who will inform her that gifting means a 5 year lookback in which she cannot get governmental help should she gift to this extent.
An attorney may help her arrange something into some sort of trust in which case sometimes the trust itself can take up paying for the loved one. But this is very delicate LEGAL stuff.
She also could consider marriage and jointing their assets.
I think you perhaps now need a better grounding in acting as POA, what your rights and duties are, how to keep meticulous records, how to get patient examined for dementia and get the POA activated so you are sole signee on her assets and etc. That is if you still WANT this tough job. I did it once and would never do it again.
As to assets, as POA you should certainly have some idea what they are and where they are. So what are they. Because if she is of an age and doesn't have millions and millions, this isn't something she can AFFORD to do.
If she has a child who is POA then take this problem to that child; you won't have to be involved.
Welcome to the Forum. Remember, when you ask us a question such as this, the more information, for instance the mental acuity of this woman, the better we can answer your questions.
Otherwise, how wise is a relationship where the elderly with Alzheimer's and her own needs pays for another person?
Is she still competent at times and generally makes reasonable requests?
Can she afford it?
If her partner is a generally self supporting informal caregiver who doesn’t need care themselves, adding them to her room wouldn’t be as expensive as paying for care for a second person in another room.
Would it benefit your sister?
Would having this person with her make it more likely that she could stay in AL rather than progress to memory care or skilled nursing?
If it benefits her and she can afford it, work with an attorney to make sure it is done right.
I had immediate POA for Mom so never had to invoke it. No one questioned my authority. Check your POA and see if its immediate or you need a doctor to declare her incompetent to make informed decisions. If you need a doctor to declare her, get it done.
Get yourself in the mindset that you are incharge. It does not matter what sister wants or does not want, your now incharge. She is no longer capable of making decisions in her best interest.
So given that, no, she should no longer be making ANY decisions as regards her finances, bills and etc.
You are POA.
I will say again that it seems to me that you don't have a full understanding of POA, duties and responsibilities, so I would research all that online for your state and then see an elder law attorney to get this all activated and set up.
I just read this "fiance" is another resident. Does he also suffer from a Dementia?
I may talk to the Administrator about this. If the fiance also has Dementia maybe his POA and you could have a meeting with the Administrator present. You could voice your concerns and make sure his POA and you are on the same page. I would do the same thing if this man is competent. I would explain that your sister is asking you to pay his way. You have no idea where she got this idea but its not going to happen. You would appreciate if she she says something to him, he tell her she does not need to pay his way, he is OK. Tell him that when she asks you again you are to pay his way, you will tell her you two had a talk and he is fine financially and does not need her to pay for him. I may also ask that he not discuss marriage with her because with an ALZ diagnosis, she can't enter into a marriage.
As expressed in your last post in November, this man could be a con man. You may have to place your sister into MC eventually. Then it may be out of sight out of mind, hopefully. Or, he is running out of money and won't be there much longer.
The long and short here is that your mother is either suffering from dementia to the point of LEGAL incompetency or she is not. That is a legal definition. If she is legally incompetent in her own care you are responsible to act for and protect her legally.
If she withdrew the POA, IS competent, and she won't speak to you (per your comment below) then you should be certain to resign POA (letter to her if she's competent) and through attorney if she is having dementia and you question her competence.
This comes down to a really simple either/or.
She is legally competent under the law OR she is legally incompetent under the law.
You can do nothing if she is competent. She MUST do everything if you are POA and she is legally incompetent (after examination and letter by two examining MDs.
Good luck.
“Maybe” consider a different solution tho….
“Maybe” they should get married….
I’m in a senior residence and so very lonesome and miss my husband soooo verrrrr much❣️
"The key factor is whether the person with Alzheimer's has the mental capacity to understand what marriage means and the implications of entering into that commitment."
Elder Lawyer does not have the Medical Background to determine someone competent. You need to take your sister to a Neurologist and have him declare her incompetent to make informed decisions. If your POA requires this and its found she is incompetent then you take that letter to the lawyer and have your POA invoked. At that point you are in charge. If your POA is immediate, she may still be able to override u so you need that diagnosis in writing.
Really, a fiance in 4 months. You know he can't be all there either. You can get Dementia with Parkinsons. Does he have family you can talk to giving them a heads up.
I would not pay anything towards his room if they aren't married. Again, she may need Medicaid at some point, and paying for his room would be gifting.