80 year old father with Alcoholic Dementia in Assisted living.....question about his friends. Any help?

You didn't cause it, can't cure it or control it. These are the three C's in Al-Anon. I know that you want to control your father's drinking. In Al-Anon, we learn how to stop worrying about the alcoholic and if he/she is still drinking or not. We don't try to control someone's actions or their whereabouts. Let the facility deal with these issues. If he goes out and comes back sloshed from drinking, what can you do?

Please join Al-Anon. They have telephone group meetings and online meetings. There are some in person meetings that have returned since the pandemic has lessened.

"put him in an assisted living/memory care (he finally gave in and didn't put up a fight) and is doing pretty well now that he has assistance, is being fed, taking meds and not allowed alcohol." This. I have been feeling this for the past few months. My dad also has "Korsakoff Wernicke syndrome". It was so hard to see him go down this path. He did it all to himself in a little less than 5 years. Currently dad is on a monitoring system that he has to blow into twice a day. It takes a picture of him doing it, and the company monitors to make sure it's him. He currently can still drive, but I told him one slip and I will remove that privilege from him. So far he has been doing great. But that top quote of yours is the only reason why. He gets his meds on time each day and 3 healthy meals to go with it. I doubt very seriously if I were to allow him to go home that he would continue to improve. He has been going to AA meetings which I am very proud of him for. His attitude towards the whole thing still stinks though. I don't think he grasps the hell he put us through or the seriousness of the disease.

He also has a friend that we are certain was bringing him bottles when he was home and unable to drive. If you know the person that he's wanting to go with, I would def contact them and express your concerns. I think it would probably be best if the friend decided to just go see him at the ALF and maybe have dinner with him there. They do allow guests to eat for a small fee. At least dads does . Hope this rambling helps. Have a blessed day.

Nolan

No to this. The friend can visit WITHOUT alcohol and the facility should be warned that he may sneak it in.
As to outings for meals, then that is for you to do with Dad; you can monitor that there will not be alcohol.
The facility needs to be aware of Dad's history. Many facilities are loaded with mouthwash and many seniors who are alcoholic turn to this.

Can I ask how you got him to go without a fight? Did he have to get sober first and then was reasonable? And given the dr’s diagnosis, was it no longer his choice even if he did put up a fight? If off topic or uncomfortable to answer , my apologies

"If in doubt communicate"..talk to your Dad about your concerns and fears of what will happen if he gets drunk again. You might consider asking him if he'd be willing to chat with an AA member . If you call Alcoholics Anonymous, AA will send a recovering alcoholic to speak with your Dad at the home. Perhaps he might strike up a friendship that is positive for him. A man will listen to a man...whereas in most cases a woman is "just nagging"
My fiancee taught me "people are going to do what they want to do...no matter what anyone says or does"
drink some chamomile & go for a walk at sunset...that will help you feel better :)

As an adult child of an alcoholic. What I read is that you seem to be doing all the work and all the worrying. Please take care yourself.

Since it sounds like this friend is both in touch with you and on board with not wanting him to drink, she’s just not strong enough to say no and not true drinking buddy who encourages it maybe there is a way to make this happen. Could she visit him there a few times first? Is there some place they can go for lunch that doesn’t serve alcohol? Could the go for breakfast? Not sure where they are but maybe a picnic? Perhaps setting it up with this friend and the residence that she has a signal she can give when they return if he has talked her into taking him to the liquor store and coming back with a supply so they can confiscate it if they will do that. He’s been sober now since Dec I think I read, it would be a shame for him to go through that hurtle again which is of course what will happen because he will land in the hospital again. It also of course is t fair to you, especially caring for him from far away if he ruins the current living set up that is working so well. So if something can’t be worked out with this friend that eliminates his temptation then you are forced to keep him sequestered. The doctor ruled him incompetent for a reason, they don’t do that easily and put you in charge meaning they (your dad I’m assuming gave you DPOA) need you do these difficult things.

Does you dad get other visitors? Are there friends or family members who do or will visit without wanting to drink with him? I ask because if not, if this friend is the only person he may see and she is hesitant because of the drinking with nothing working out why is he staying in that area? I would never suggest he move in with you but you might consider setting him up closer to you. A change of area so no where near his old stomping grounds and regular visits from you might help him move further away from his addiction. Not suggesting he can manage it alone or be on his own and I’m thinking more about you but there could be other benefits to him starting a new chapter too.

Figuringitout: Imho, do not allow him to have even one drink of alcohol since that will create the desire to consume more. Stop it by any means necessary.

Unfortunately, the answer is no. His recovery is 100% the most important thing.

Tell him his friend can have lunch with him at "his place" (the assisted living/memory care facility). The friend can always bring lunch items but be firm that drinks must come from the facility.

Daughter of alcoholic Dad here. I recommend Alanon. It really helped me.. The Three C-s, I did not cause it, I can't control it and I can't cure it.

The reality is it is easy to get alcohol in group homes and assisted livings even in facilities in which it is banned.

Tell the facility and the doctor (put in writing - no) that there are to be no outside visits and why. If the person comes to the room, better yet in a very public area, have the aides or nurses make unexpected visits to catch any drinking which is forbidden or bar those people from visiting him - make phone calls instead.

Wait a minute - Did you write the words - "he will be kicked out of his assisted living" because you "KNOW that ONE outing WILL involve alcohol"? And "… this RISK IS TOO GREAT." Did you also say that the doctor declared him (for cripes sake) "INCOMPETENT"?

I don't know. Maybe it's me.

How much effort did it take to find and arrange to get him in the assisted/memory care place? The upside is you've got practice. Start your research again now. It might be a little embarassing though to explain why he was kicked out of the last place.

Don't most assisted living places let a visitor join for lunch? Offer to pay.
Pay for take-out and tell the visitor to bring it in.

Is there an AA person in his area that can join them in exchange for a donation. You can pay for that chaperon's lunch.

I so understand that you don't want to control daddy, it's uncomfortable, but you're in denial, he's not daddy. He never was.

When you think about it, you are letting an incompetent person take control. How about a year of sobriety earning him an outing to a restaurant. I really don't think that'll work but it may (I don't believe this either) buy you time.

Please reread the first paragraph. Yellow highlight your quotes, stick it on your bathroom mirror with copies inside your fridge, wallet, and on your sweetheart's forehead.

I don't know how you can legally stop him but you may be saving a life out there.

Make arrangements at a local Dennys or Perkins, anywhere that doesn't serve alcohol. If you can't be there, have someone you trust pick him up and drop him to meet his friend. Old alcohics with dementia are still human beings and deserve to have a social life.

Is he drinking wine or hard stuff?

Is the friend calling him to go to lunch and if so is he/she also an alcoholic? Maybe the friend does not have a drinking problem. Contact them and ask them to go to avoid places that serve alcohol or get a promise that no alcohol will be served. If you can't trust this "friend", visitors can often arrange to have lunch with a resident in their dining hall. With an alcoholic, it's easier to pull hen's teeth than to trust. For you, if an incident happens, the AL may be calling you to find another place for him, that day.

If he decides he is going to drink, he will find a way, regardless of his access to one or his prior friends.

I’m sorry for your pain.

Your father has chosen a slow death. I don't think he cares, he will drink either way. You have a fight on your hands. I doubt if he will listen to you, and it will be exhausting. With all his health issues, I am afraid he isn't going to live too much longer, so just let him do whatever he wants. I know that will be hard, but what choice do you have? Unless you can have him put in a place where he can't leave

You are correct to limit his exposure at this point in his life to friends who drink.  Especially those who have been with him during his experiences with alcohol.   Alcoholism never goes away.   It is a disease that will be with him the rest of his life.  Having him in this facility and because of his current physical condition keeps him away from drinking,  But he will, without a doubt, drink if around that friend who has drank with him in the past.  No one can tell you what makes them drink.  And he cannot stop it.  That being said, I would do everything in your power to insure that they don't see each other.  I speak from experience as alcoholism runs in my family,  It has completely taken over my brother's life and he is on his way to end up like your Dad or worse as he ages.  Don't make concessions.  It is not a negotiable disease.

Hi, I know it's hard feeling like you are controlling his life, but you are doing it out of care & concern. The roles are switching at this stage in our lives and we have to help them make better decisions & keep them safe, while ensuring they have as much autonomy as possible. It can be a hard line to navigate! My Dad is also an alcoholic in AL. I can't control his drinking & luckily nothing has happened to get him kicked out. I'm also out of state like you. My issue is I have taken his car away & one of his great joys in life - driving! So although I feel like I'm controlling & overstepping sometimes, it's for the safety of him & his community. I would ask your dad's friend to come to AL for a meal or take him out for ice cream or breakfast - he could get the social time, but at an hour or during an activity not associated with drinking. Good luck!

You're right. Alcoholism is incurable. At the first opportunity he will start drinking again and put his life at risk, because his body won't resist anymore the effects of alcohol. At this point, a relapse of his drinking habit will be a death sentence. Do whatever you can you to keep him away from anything that could break his abstinence. However, I don't know if he is legally competent or not. If you're not his guardian, there is no way you can prevent a relapse of his drinking a 100% because nobody could force him not to do anything he wants. You should know that he would die within a short time of his starting to drink again. His liver is shot.

FIO, I would find out how she can come have lunch with him at the facility.

My dads 1st facility had meal vouchers that you could purchase from the business office for $6 each meal, $10 if you paid at the table. Not bad for steak or salmon or 50 other lovely, delicious meals.

We would make it like a date, get there and walk up to the restaurant a bit before the meal, walk outside on the patio, then enjoy a leisurely meal with coffee and desert. My dad loved to be seen with visitors.

Maybe you could send her some vouchers and that would be the excuse to eat at the facility?

Have you talked to your dad about the importance of NOT imbibing at all? Could his doctor stress this, again?

If the friend is an alcoholic as well it would not be a good idea to allow them to go out for lunch.
While most AL facilities do allow alcohol and most have liquor licenses I would not even want your dads friend bringing in alcohol.
Do you know this person? Do you know them well enough that if you contacted them would they respect your "authority" and not provide alcohol to your dad? If so having them come to the facility for lunch might be a place to start.
Technically since your dad is in AL not Memory Care he can leave as he wishes. (Unless you have made other arrangements with the facility)
Is your dad on a medication that is often given to alcoholics that will make him very ill if he does consume alcohol? (think it is Antabuse)
Is your dad well aware that if he does drink, if he does revert to his old habits that he will get kicked out. Is he cognizant enough to fully understand this?
AND the important thing is are you willing to step aside if he does spiral down again?
If you KNOW what will happen then stop it before it starts. Restrict visiting to in the facility only and the guest is not to bring alcohol. Visiting to be done in public areas only (so no drinking in his apartment) and visits are supervised. If that is possible.
Rock.. YOU ..Hard place.
Tough decision. But bottom line is if you are in charge of him, legally responsible for his medical welfare I would not allow the visit. Maybe if you were there to join them but if it is just the two of them that would be a no from me.

It sounds as though you know the friend who wants to take Dad out for lunch. Could you phone and explain the problem? Ginger ale with a shot of lemon juice might go well with lunch, and it’s not an easy taste to place.

My parents assisted living allows alcohol. They cannot stop people from having alcohol in their apartments. Every Thursday is a wine and beer happy hour.

Not sure how this got on discussions. Will report and maybe Admin. can change to questions.