Mom has lost the concept of others.

I just wonder how you turned out so nice!

My parents didn't do a perfect job, but boy, I never had to put up with what you do! My father could be difficult, during and after his drinking days, but he loved us and would come through when he had to.

How do you keep your sanity? People who train troops to resist brainwashing should take lessons from you.

Jinx, I don't know if I kept my sanity. Sometimes I think I'm totally crazy, but just haven't realized it yet.

I feel for you. JessieBelle. I'm caregiver to my 78 year old mom. She's never had any real or lasting empathy or concern for others that I can recall. I remember when I was little she told me that before I was born she wanted to get pregnant because a friend of hers was going to have a baby and she was pissed off that she was stealing all the attention. She also told me having me was her "insurance" that she would have someone to take care of her when she got old. (And as usual, she set her aim on her target and hit the mark.) The dementia diagnosis has been hard for me to accept. It's so hard to differentiate what is truly a symptom of the disease, and what is deliberate manipulation. I went home today for the first time in almost a week. She was really doing good while I stayed there, but today she was laying the guilt on me as thick as she could. Or was she. Ugh. *sigh*.
((HUGS))) to you.

That is a lot you are doing for your mother and you have tremendous patience, hang on in there. Take her criticism lighly and brush it aside. Try not to take everything she says to heart. Although that is easier said then done, this will help you keep your cool.

Jessiebelle I hear you, hang in there you're doing a great job...

Angels19 at this point I have to accept everything my Mom does and says as the illness or I would be arguing all day! I keep reminding myself that she "isn't doing it on purpose"!

JessieBelle, the only out-and-out narcissist I know is - thank God! - not my responsibility; so although her quite astonishing selfishness (including that competitive grief you mentioned - this lady's loss of her husband was so much more important than anybody's else's could possibly be) gets right up my nose, and - much worse - hurts people I love, at least I don't have to live with it.

But something you said really caught my attention, there: "I don't know what she expected of them." Well, no, exactly. The thing is, I doubt that these people know what they expect, either. What would be enough, in their wildest happy dreams? The answer is that nothing can ever be enough.

So if you can't win, why play? The hurt that caring caregivers like you, and everybody else afflicted with narcissistic dependents - they are bloody dependant, after all! How dare they risk being so bloody ungrateful? - seems to come from loving the person enough to want her to be happy, no matter how unattainable that might be. It's such a cruel trap.

I'd give anything to get my sister-in-law's leg out of it, but short of cutting it off… What, if anything, do your friends and family do that you really find helpful and supportive? I'd welcome the advice.

I realize that little can be done at this point. I just try to keep myself emotionally removed from it, but I admit it is wearing. I seem to be okay inside, but I look at some of the things I'm doing -- pulling in to myself more, not getting out as much -- and realize that things are affecting me. So each day I wake up and say I'm going to do something to get me away from it. And then it rains -- sigh. It has been raining a lot here the last couple of years. (Seems like a cruel conspiracy at times. :)

My brothers lead their own lives with their families. That is okay with me. My mother is not to the point where she needs 24/7 care yet, so I can come and go as I want to during the day. When she gets to the point where she needs too much, I will look into a NH for her. We have three here that are social settings, instead of institutional. Two have memory units. I really hope she can stay home, but I know she is likely to end up in one of the two units. I don't depend on my brothers for assistance, because I know they don't have the time and inclination for more than short visits. They might surprise me, but I doubt it. It is okay. I've learned to just let people be who they are and not expect much.

JessieBelle, my mother is like yours, horrible, mean to her grand kids, too. Everything has to be centered on her, everyone, including her siblings have to centered on her. When you visit with her, you cannot mention friends or she will find a way to start a pity party. She has outbursts and pounds on doors, screaming if the person on the other side doesn't respond quickly enough, broke her hand recently. We had to remove her car to prevent her from driving off like a madman in the middle of the night in a rage to one of our houses, because we didn't talk on the phone long enough with her. Wow, that was a trick. I totally feel for you. She won't go to senior center, she expects her children and sisters to entertain her constantly. She forgets the activity within two minutes of being home and feels like no one ever visits her or takes her anywhere. (by the way, what happened to my car?) she is running on exhaust fumes, but refuses to settle or rest. I dont think there is a home that would take her without using drugs and restraints. And then she has a sweet moment. We have in house daycare and she is much more well behaved with them than us. So I would advise bringing in help.

Jessie, Like I have said in other posts, I have been there done that. My husband, mother, and sister are all like that in various degrees. My husband is self centered and my mother has no compassion for anyone. Sister is in to herself. My mother wasn't always this way and dh has always been that way. I say with a loving heart, that you should put your mother in an assisted living place and you go about having a good life. Only visit her once in a while. Life is too short to live like you are doing.

Today started out great. I got my health insurance all sorted out and paid. I received such a sweet surprise gift certificate. I started plans to decorate for Christmas. The day went to hell from there. This evening I was left to wondering if it was really me. I found an article online that is from Psychology Today. If anyone wants to read it, just google "Mother Damned-est" and it should come up. The article had to do with difficult mothers. I related so much to this article, because my mother doesn't fit into the simple models we see for narcissism or BPD. I wanted to let others know about the article if they might want to read it.

Why not try a little honesty with her? It's works with my mother. She had a tantrum of family ignoring her and so I told her the truth.You are 94 and they do not want to be reminded that they too will get old. She laughed at my small nose one day and said if I get any fatter it will disappear so I bought a fake nose and wore it around her constantly for a week. She got the point despite her dementia and was embarrassed that I wore it when a neighbor dropped by.
There is no point is getting angry, harbouring old hurts or driving yourself into an early grave .Try laughing out loud when she rants, walk away when she aggravates you and remember one day you may be in her place.

I'm afraid it wouldn't work with my mother, who is inflexible and always right. It would be like running into a wall. The sad thing for her is that she is all alone. Even the daughter living with her avoids her. I guess it is the legacy of being difficult. I don't worry about ever being in her place, because she and I are as different as day and night. It is hard for me to believe sometimes that we could be related.

And I have the opposite problem. Mom thinks everyone is so wonderful. The same people that have been treating me like, well you know what, for almost two and a half years. Just need to grit the teeth, keep my frustration and hurt internal. Don't get angry whatever you do, or you will be diagnosed with some sort of mental disorder. GRRR!

Jess-
Same here, wonderful surprise this morning made me feel so good! Then the rest of the day became a downward spiral!

If I wanted my mother to like someone, all I would have to do is say I didn't like them. I know what you mean, gladimhere. Wouldn't it be nice to have a mother that was in the corner with you?

Jessie, you're mom is so much like mine! Mom is 71 and she has been more difficult since my father passed away 5yrs ago (he is now in peace). She has always been negative and self centered. I feel guilty because I find it difficult to love her.
Establish boundaries when you can!

Ah, life with a narcissist. Gotta hate it. And JB, what you said about getting your mom to like someone by saying you didn't like them...oh, how true that is! Same here. I've always known that there was something seriously out of whack with my mom, but I had no idea what it was. I learned the word 'narcissism' here, on this site. When I read the description, the light went on. At last, a name for that crazy, mean spirited old bitch! I remember as a teen, trying to describe what being around her felt like to my friends...I told them it felt like having a giant spider with all 8 legs wrapped around me in a death grip, refusing to let go, feeding on me 24/7, sucking all the happiness and joy out of me until I felt as limp as as an overcooked noodle. These types are truly soul suckers without a bit of joy in them...unless they're laughing at your expense, of course. I wouldn't wish these types on anyone. I used to tell my buddies that the only reason God allowed my mom to adopt me was because I was the only person that he knew wouldn't murder her in her sleep one day.

She's in a NH now. Do I feel guilty about that? Not a bit of it. I visit. And after every visit I leave feeling depressed. My mom is determined to leave this world as miserable as she was living in it, and there is nothing, absolutely nothing, I can do about it. Nobody can do anything ENOUGH for these types and people need to recognize that and lose the guilt. I'm a big enough person to feel pity and compassion for her, I am warm and loving when I see her, I try and soothe her as best I can when I'm around, but do I love my mom? Maybe on some level because she's my mom. Do I LIKE her? Hell no. Never have, never will, and I don't feel a bit of guilt about it. When my mom dies, and God willing it'll be sooner rather than later, I'll grieve.... I'll grieve for what I NEVER had, not for what I lost, because frankly, I'm not losing too much of anything except someone who went out of their way, time and again without mercy, to make me as miserable as possible and derived great enjoyment from doing so. Hard to feel too sad about saying good bye to someone like that. I feel sorry for her, that she missed out on so much good by taking such great enjoyment in dishing out all that's bad. But it is what it is...and nothing I ever could have done, no amount of good I could have shown her, and I did try, ever changed a single thing. With these types, no matter what you do or how long you try, it's lose/lose any way you slice it. Accept that fact and guilt flies out the window...which is such a sweet, sweet relief.

StandingAlone, it sounds like you had Mother Dearest and I had Mother Damnedest. Mine is on her good behavior today, which is a relief. She is decorating for Christmas. I think I'll go shopping -- one of my favorite things to do. I was going to take her to buy a coat today, but decorating may have worn her out. I hope, I hope. I could use a mother-free day before the 12 days of Christmas set in.

JessieBelle, Very interesting article. I'm going to send it to several friends.

I agree, very interesting indeed. Only I'm hesitating - the bit about how hard it is for the victim to recognise this behaviour in her mother struck me forcefully. Last thing I want to do is make her feel worse...

I thought about how it is to care for a difficult parent and realized that much of the problem is that there is not really a role reversal. Instead there is a taking on of two roles. We become the parent and the child, taking on the worst parts of both -- the responsibilities of the parent and the respect status of the child. Two days ago, I told my mother we needed to see about bringing in a housekeeper to help around the house. Often I work until about 3-4:00 getting things done that need doing. Then it is time to cook dinner. I am a working woman, so I have no time except evening to do my own work. My mother's response was, "Well, you got a roof over your head and food in your belly. What more do you want?"

That was the most disrespectful remark I can remember hearing in my life. Even a slave gets that much. I realize in her mind she still sees me as that 16 year old girl who should be grateful for shelter. She didn't see how it conflicted with the tasks of running the household and taking care of her. She has never been able to understand that I pay my own bills. It seems to be too important to her for me to understand that I owe her.

I later thought of the answer to the question of what more do I want. It would be love and respect. It is something that was always missing from the family. It isn't enough to just feed and house a child. You have to let them know they are loved and respected. The same is true for a caregiving adult child. (I could write a book myself.)

JessieBelle, I hope this won't make it worse. I'm just trying to get my head around that… I don't know what to call it… absolutely hateful thing to say. And I think what hollows me out is that that is what you would say to a child you take NO pride or joy in. And I can't imagine such a thing. What in heaven's name is behind her attitude?

"What in heaven's name is behind her attitude?" A mental disorder.

I have the mommy damned-est. How to I handle it, boundaries galore, distancing and calling more than visiting. Mothers future, not sure, but definately not under my roof. My mother may be the grandmaster of manipulation, but I have become the grandmaster of putting my emotional wellbeing first.

I know what you mean, Debralee. A bad thing for the children of difficult parents is that from the outside these parents can look like sweet, normal people. It is just a shell put on for public viewing. People don't see that the middle is empty or rotten. So it ends up with people thinking and saying, "What is wrong with you kids to be so bad to your wonderful parent?"

No, I'm not about to crack, everyone. No need to post "Caregivers who crack and do horrible things to parents" article. :) I'm avoiding my mother today. After a peaceful day yesterday, she is angry again today. So I'll do my own work and rake leaves. To venture close to her would be inviting abuse.

Good for you, Debralee. For the outsider who sees this kind of lady in action - in at least two instances damaging people I love and respect enormously - but isn't on the receiving end, here's the thing: it would seem fair and reasonable to me for children in that position also to think "mother's future? Mother's problem." Since her behaviour is so incredibly alienating, why aren't you more alienated? I think, maybe, it's some very special strength on your part. You've got every reason to turn on your collective heels and walk away, but somehow you manage not to. There's, how? But there's also, why? What makes you continue to care?

This is genuine enquiry, by the way, not any kind of criticism.

It is a very good question, Countrymouse. I've even gone as far as locating houses to buy in other cities. Why I stay is more for myself and how I would feel if I left. I know that this too shall pass. What I feel is good in this circumstance is to accept the way things are and work with it. Leaving would be easy, but it wouldn't make it best. Why I feel this way I can't explain, but I've found my feelings usually guide me in the right way. If I go against them I end up in a mess.

Yep, for many, not all...it becomes more and more all about them. Their world shrinks, old friends, family, shrink away from them and we're the only ones left holding the bag. They become the sun and think the world revolves around them because we have become their world.

No answer, just empathy. My husbands one grandmother rarely asked for anything, but was a giver all her life even giving what little she could to others in the end in her kindness and sunny attitude...and lo and behold, when she need others they came out of the woodwork to help and comfort her because she had been so generous with her time and talents. The other grandmother? And my mom? ...no. They were, are depressed, sad, woe is me, poor me, nobody cares about me, why aren't others doing for me, I'm old, therefore others owe me to help me.

Doesn't work that way. You did what you did and will continue to do because the nagging and attitude isn't worth it. Such a shame. Next time, call her a cab.

Welcome to my world, Jessie. Mother has been that way all my life and hers. It is the nature of narcissism. A couple of things in that article struck me particularly.

"Either develop complex and constricting coping mechanisms to maintain a relationship with me, at great cost to your own outlook, imagination, and values, or suffer ridicule, disapproval, or rejection."

I chose and continue to choose the latter, as I will not sacrifice my values. My sister, probably along with a genetic predisposition to the illness our mother has, has chosen the former.

There was one point in this article that bothers me.

"Difficult mothers should be distinguished from abusive mothers, whose children exhibit abnormalities in brain development that can impair the ability to regulate emotions, engage in social interaction, and organize memories. "

I find the above statement to be uninformed. I will disagree with anyone who says a narcissist is not abusive. They are emotionally, verbally and sometimes physically abusive. I don't know where the line between difficult and abusive is drawn by this author, but it is very clear to me that narcissistic mothers are abusive. It is also clear to me that at least some people brought up by abusive mothers do not suffer from the abnormalities in brain development described in the article. If the author is defining abusive mothers as those who chain their children to their beds in the basement, beat them, and deprive them of food and social interaction, I think the statement stands, but abuse can be much more subtle than that.

However, over all I found the article worthwhile.

I am glad that you are firm in your decision that when it gets too much you will place your mother in a facility. Good luck in the meanwhile, which will get more and more difficult. (((((((((((hugs))))))))))))

The saga continues. I don't know what is going on in my mother's head. Today she told me she was going to give me $50 for Christmas so I could take her out to eat and feel the pride that comes from contributing something. She went on to say that she had taken me in when I had nowhere else to go and contributing something might make me feel more proud about myself.

Oh... okay. Poor me! It is funny how her stories evolve to put herself in a central noble role. I do hope she doesn't start telling this one around. It would be embarrassing.