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I have one parent in a nursing home and the other needing to go. I understand that Medicaid will take both S.S. checks but will my Dads small retirement pension of $476.00 be taken also? They have bits and pieces of ins. policies that after all these yrs they don't want them to lapse...therefore the retirement money will be needed to keep the polices in effect. Can they have any money in a savings account..is $2,000.00 too much?
Thank you for your helpful replies...I need them!

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Please get in touch with an elder lawyer, since the rules vary from state to state.

For my mother all available monies (SS AND retirement) were garnished.

I am not about insurance policies, so talking to a lawyer is best. perhaps one of the legal (staff) experts will have more information and post soon.
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The Nursing Home say's all but $60.00 for each parent will be used for their nursing home care. My husband and I will likely continue the payement on their insurance policies. I'll post as I know more.
Thank you!
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The only way for your parent's to pay life insurance premiums while on Medicaid will be from their monthly "personal allowance" of, depending on the state,approximately $35 each. They are permitted to have combined assets (like a bank account) of $3,000. If this is enough to pay the premiums you could do that.

However, life insurance policies may be considered a "countable asset" for Medicaid eligibility purposes.

If the total face value (in other words death benefit) of all policies owned is less than or equal to $2,500 then the cash value of the total of all policies is excluded. If the total death benefit of all policies exceeds $2,500 then the cash value of all policies is included in determining the asset test.

If both parents are receiving Medicaid benefits most states permit the couple to have only $3,000 in assets. The life insurance cash values, if countable, can be included in this number. If the cash values are higher than the $3,000, then they will have to be disposed of to the extent that they are "over-resourced".

I can appreciate wanting to maintain the policies but you may have no choice but to surrender them for cash. If you do this, I would suggest looking at a method to preserve the cash for their use while applying for and receiving Medicaid. Specifically, consider the use of a Personal Service Contract or Agreement or Supplemental Needs Trust. Of course, the cost involved in establishing these arrangements may not be worth the result.

Let me know what state you are in, the cash surrender value of the policies, the death benefit of the policies, and any outstanding loans, and perhaps I can guide you further.

You really need to make sure you have this straight before you apply. Applications are denied because of life insurance policies not being reported correctly as an asset.
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Ralph,
I truly appreciate your help...it is so dis-heartening that their meager earnings and life insurance can prohibit them from receiving the long term care they desperately need at the age of 86 and 95!

We live in the state of Texas, there are 2 ins policies with death benefits of $3,000.00 each and cash values of $1,500.00 each. They have another ins policy with a death benefit of $5,000.00. I am now afraid that I have over stepped in taking the initiative of paying up their policies for 6 mos.

They have an outstanding c.c balance of $6,000.00 on one cc and 1,500.00 on another c.c.

Because of the recent sale of their car, we have been replacing much needed items for them, however we're having a dickens of a time maintaining a balance at or below $3,000.00

My mom really wants and needs the care of a nursing home but I fear she may now be denied because of "too much" ins.
I thank you in advance for your kind guidance.
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Ralph,
Can the ins policies be cashed in and the money given to the nursing home so they can qualify for Medicaid? I'm really scared for my mom, she's home alone and we all will feel much more secure with her being in a nursing home with dad. I'm not trying to shirk my responsibilities, I'm trying to maintain a good quality of life for everyone concerned.
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I appreciate the urgency and your need for answers. Here are some options for the life insurance policies:

1. If mom is the only person applying for Medicaid, Community Spouse (CS) Impoverishment rules will apply. This means that Medicaid will look at the income and assets of the applicant and the spouse separately.

2. The spouse applying for Medicaid cannot have assets of over $2,000 nor income over $2,022 per month. The CS may retain all of the couple's assets above $2,000 up to $21,912 and one half the amount up to $109,560 in 2010.

3. Assets owned by the applicant spouse valued over $2,000 can be transferred to the CS without penalty.

4. If husband is owner of the policies and mom is going to apply for Medicaid, no problem.

5. If mom owns or is co-owner of the policies she can transfer ownership to her husband with no penalty.

6. Problem solved (for the near term, anyway).

IMPORTANT NOTE: If these policies are kept make sure that no one who is receiving Medicaid is a beneficiary!

Given the numbers you supplied, it may very well be that these policies will sustain themselves without further premium payment if dividends are directed to premium payment. Contact the respective insurance companies and ask for an "in force ledger" without further premium payments and dividends going to premium. That will show you how long the policies will last and what the benefits will be.

If you want dad to apply for Medicaid, too, then the policies will most likely have to be surrendered. Unless....

Do your parents have final expense plans in place? If not, or if the plans are inadequate for today's market, you could transfer the policies to an irrevocable funeral trust to pay for final expenses. Any funeral home should be able to help you with this transaction. The policies will then be exempt from Medicaid countability.

OR, you could cash the policies, have mom retain $2,000, have Dad retain $1,000 (or vice versa) and you can then open a $2,500 "burial account" at a bank for each of them. This should be a non-interest bearing account titled "Jane Doe Burial Account". You have now protected $8,000 worth of assets.

Of course, if you feel the cash would be more helpful right now, then by all means surrender the policies and take care of business.

Just remember....DOCUMENT ALL TRANSACTIONS.
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CORRECTION:

Sorry but I made an error above with respect to the amount can be dedicated to "Burial Accounts". In Texas the allowed amount is $1,500. This must be coordinated with Irrevocable Funeral Arrangements if that will be part of the plan. A knowledgeable funeral director should know the rules. If not, go here and scroll down to "life insurance": http://www.dads.state.tx.us/handbooks/mepd/F/index.htm



http://www.dads.state.tx.us/
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One last item I thought of that may offer you some relief...

Texas has a very high minimum monthly maintenance allowance for the Community Spouse (CS). The CS, in this case your dad, is permitted to maintain a minimum monthly income of $2,739 in 2010. This means that if his income is below $2,739 he is entitled to receive your mother's income (including Social Security) to meet that monthly income. Essentially, the state will gave dad mom's Social Security to meet his needs and makes up the difference with the nursing home. Caveat: You have to ask for this income diversion when you apply!
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Thanks Ralph. This has already occured as my dad is currently in a nursing home since March, Mom is the community spouse but is hoping to move soon to the nursing home. I will be checking with a Funeral director regarding an irrevocable ins arrangement. Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I just want to help secure their well being in the end.
Thank you so very much for your help.
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You are welcome I hope things go as well as they can for your family. I'm sure I would give more accurate answers if I read the questions more carefully...I'm sorry I didn't address your question more directly...you said in your question dad was already receiving nursing care and mom was requiring care; I just didn't READ it...sorry!
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No problem Ralph, I know I've said and asked alot, forgive me for rambling on and thank you for bearing with me and supplying much needed answers.
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Medicaid to take my father’s Social Security and Pension. This is New York.
My father William is in a nursing rehab center since last year.
He had setbacks with his health, that is why he is in there this long.
He is not going to be permanent there. My mother who passed away on March 5, 2012, before applied for medicaid for my father since they could not afford the rehab center's cost. Aetna medicare will not cover it. The medicaid went through this week but medicaid is saying that they want my father's social security and pension. I can see the social security, but the pension is used to keep his apartment running until he is able to return. Could you please advice me what to do?
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tobor001, I think that the basic rule is that all income with the exception of a small allowance, is to be used for the expense of the long-term care facility. If there is no spouse living in the community who also needs some of the income to live on, then there are no allowances for maintaining a home in the community. If you own a house, for example, you may be allowed to keep it, but how you are going to pay property taxes and insurance is another matter!

That is just my layman's understanding. I hope that Ralph or another forum expert will pop back on and give you specific details.
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I know that you can pre pay their funeral expenses, this will not hurt their qualification status for Medicaid. Pay the expenses in full for both of them In fact Medicaid encouraged me to do so.. Best wishes.
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My sister is in a nursing home.She currently is on medicare and medicade.She is wanting to know about her pension money.She receives 50.00 a month from Veterns and 40.00 from Social Security.I need to know if the nursng home can take her pension money from her for her keep. Her pension is only 100.00 a month.I would be ever grateful if I could receive some information on this I live in Ohio thank you.
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If your sister is already in a nursing home, linda0223, she can simply ask how this will be handled. She will be allowed at least some of the $100/month, but how much can easily be determined by asking.

Is she able to ask this on her own? Is someone else helping her handle her affairs, perhaps as POA?
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Thank you jeanneqibbs yes she is in a nursing home and she can ask. I hope she can keep some of her pension.I always heard no one can touch your pension money I might be wrong on this.Anyone out there with information on this please feel free to write me the info.Thanks im in Ohio linda0223
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Can beneficiary benefits (payable on death of owner) to children and grandchildren of IRA's and Annuitys be garnished for long term care bills paid by medicaid?
Can spouse survivor pension benefits be garnished for long term care bills after the pensioner has died?
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My brother in law just got approved for Medicaid, he is currently in a nursing home. He has a pension and they are telling us the nursing home get the all the pension minus $45 for him and $77 for medical ins. If he has to file income taxes next yr. how does that work since he want be paying anything into it.
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Hi Ralph I live in Mass..husband has altz with dementia & diabetes. .he is at home w/me. He is on both Medicaid & Medicare snd blue cross..I rent an apt do not own a car I lease it..we have no money in the bank..he gambled his complete retirement. All we have is our ss and pension checks. They total $3880.00 each month..I have two life ins policies each for $1500.00
My question is what can I expect to keep for my rent and food, utility bills when I put him in a nursing home?
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Stefani...
The spouse not applying for Medicaid benefits is called the Community Spouse.
The Community Spouse is permitted to retain all of his/her own income regardless of the amount and is guaranteed a minimum of the couple's combined income if their own income falls below $1,939 and can receive a maximum of $2,931 (in 2014).
The income the Community Spouse is able to retain when the other spouse in receiving Medicaid nursing home benefits is called the Monthly Maintenance Needs Allowance (MMNA) and varies by state.
Using Massachusetts specific numbers below you will be able calculate the amount you will be able to keep for your needs.
The formula is this:
Add your rent + $608 Utility allowance (state mandated). This equals your "Shelter Cost".
From your shelter cost subtract $582 (state mandated shelter allowance).
The result is your "excess shelter costs".
This is added to the minimum Monthly Maintenance Needs Allowance of $1,939.
The result is the amount you will retain (up to a maximum of $2,931).
Example:
Your rent is $1,200 + $608 Utility Allowance = $1,808.
$1,808 - $582 = $1,226.
$1,226 + $1,939 = $3,165
In this example you will be able to retain $2,931
I hope this answers your question.
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How can I get help trying to put him into a eden facility or nh .. And how can I find a nh that will take him in and not take my ss and pension? I cannot live under the same roof with him..
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Stefani, all the answers here won't be helpful if you don't read them. Re-read the prior post from Ralph. If you still don't get it, have someone help you.
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my mother is 87 and has experienced 2 strokes and as a result is having seizures of which they are not predictable when they occur.The doctor has said because of these seizures she can not live alone.She lives in New Jersey.We are under the belief that when she is put in a assisted live program under medicaid that they take her SS and her work pension? This does not seem fair for she worked all those years and earned it. She contributed to SS and her pension also?
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This is for the curt ralph..my rent is 1180.00..utiility heat electric laundry parking 500.. then you ssid 582 for something..then add 1939 equal s 3145 for the ans..I just dont understand
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You still don't get it. As I said before,get someone to help you.
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Stefani, a good facility will help sort out the financial end. If there is a facility you like, go talk to them about the possibilities.
7348bill, you are lucky because NJ is one of the few states that will cover ALF under Medicaid! It IS fair, because the state picks up the rest of the tab. We have many posters here in other states that wish they were in NJ
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I have a question - my husband has a military retirement plan that ceases when he dies. He also has a retirement plan from a job that will continue after his death as we choose an option to continue the retirement plan with a reduction in the current monthly payments - this will allow me to have some income from that as well as some from his SS. Currently we own a small home and have some insurance, mainly on him as I have health problems which did not allow us to add more to mine. So ... if he either needs nursing care OR dies .... are his insurance and retirement checks taken from me. We have our children as beneficiaries.
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Anny, if he goes into VA care, you avoid all the Medicaid problems with estate recovery. Even if he does go onto Medicaid, you get a spousal allowance for your needed expenses.
If he dies, the VA has many benefits for surviving spouses. Look them up at VA.gov. especially widow's pension and "aid and attendance"
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Thanks for that - we know he is set if I die first as he will have his retirements, social security and the VA check as well as be able to use the VA home we have locally. I just did not know what would happen if he went into the nursing home or died first. We bought extra life insurance on him because he was the one that had the paycheck. However with everything we have been reading we are concerned that all of our plans are soured, that the insurance he set aside for my benefit would disappear. I know we could cash out the life insurance at some point. Yet if it's just me - without any of the life insurance - I could not afford to keep our small house on the SS only, in fact I would be destitute. And if the job retirement is taken that's where I'd be. I know some VA's do allow for spouses - I will have to check on that. Thanks again!
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