My mom has been a miserable, nasty, and hateful person all her life. As a mother she has dominated every aspect of her children's life.

I am so glad that I found this website! I have spent the whole day feeling guilty about an argument with my 85 year old mother and after reading this thread, I feel much better. I now know that my brother and I are not alone when it comes to the issues with my mother.

I'm 60 years old and as long as I can remember, anytime my mother has gotten upset about something or not getting her way she starts saying that wishes she was never born or wishes she would die. As she has gotten older it has gotten worse and now she reminds me and my brother where the clothes are that she wants to be buried in whenever she gets upset or not getting her way. It's become very old news to me and my brother and we ignore her.

I haven't been home in two years and rarely talk to her but because of some medical issues she's having, I went home to take care of medical appointments because my brother could not go. The first visit well. The second one did not.

My mother lives along and does not drive. Her "boyfriend" (that's a another whole story for another post) has stated that he can no longer take her to her doctors appointments. She lives in a rural area and has to go about 50 miles to get to her doctors. My mother lives in west TN and my brother and I live in NC and because of distance we can't go down for her monthly appointments with her retina specialist. After much discussion and MUCH reluctance, my mother finally agreed to let us hire a caretaker to take her to her appointments. I went home to ensure that both she and I were comfortable with the caretaker. We also discussed having the caretaker come in once a week to check on her get both me and my brother a level of comfort that all was ok and to make us aware of issues that needed our attention. She agreed to try it for a month, then adamantly said she didn't want it, than agree, then disagreed, but had agreed when I left yesterday. In the meanwhile, she's telling everyone who will listen that I'm ruining her life.

I left much later than I intended, drove 12 hours in the rain and didn't home until 2am and didn't get to bed until 4. Around 8am she started blowing up my cell phone. It's in another room but I live in a small townhouse and each time it rang it woke me up. Add to that, an extremely pi$$ed off cat that was determined not to let me sleep. Anyway, I finally got up around 10 and when I my mother called, in my sleep deprivation, I answered the phone (how stupid of me!). And she started in - she would let someone take her to her doctor's appointments but was NOT going to allow someone come in her house to check on her. She didn't need it (she does), she perfectly capable of taking care of herself and implying that I was a mean awful daughter for suggesting such a thing. The whole time that she is ranting, I'm trying to explain that I'm exhausted, I'm not a morning person, I've had no coffee, I was in a TERRIBLE mood and now was not the time to discuss this but she continued because it's all about her and her issues. I just about to hang up on her when she started the I wish I had never been born crap and all the other crap that goes with it and I lost it. And I've felt guilty all day about it.

Thanks to everyone on this thread, I don't feel as bad about the argument as I did. Since she is our mother, my brother and I feel obligated in making sure she is safe as we possibly can but due to the comments on this thread, I realize that we can do that and still not have to have constant contact with her and her abuse.

I have a feeling you will be hearing from me often and thank you ahead of time for your support!

My mother has lived with me on and off for 15yrs. She has dementia and she has always had a difficult personality. It is hard to tell if she is in her dementia state sometimes or just being her normal stubborn, controlling self. My brother is not well and my sister is married and not interested in helping my mom or in giving me a well needed break. My brother drank most of his life and now has health problems. It is not a nice situation to be in. People don't want to get to know me because once they find our her personality, then they think I am the same way and I don't get a chance to get out or meet new people. It is not a nice situation to be in. What are the rest of you singles out there doing with your eldery parents?

My mum is really miserable and she hates me as she told me so. I stayed away for 9 years and when i came back, she was still the same. She would tell lies in order to ruin my friendships and relationships with others.

Stay strong people. I have a similar experience with my mother. I hadnt spoken to her for 9 years and when i went back she was still miserable and rejected me. My absence hadnt changed her. She would tell complete lies to try and ruin my friendships and relationships with other people so that i can be alone like she is.

My Dad exhibits this type of behavior more so when he's sundowning or being fed, or diaper changed or bathed. He yells and cusses at the top of his lungs. WOW, the things that come out of his mouth are embarrassing to say the least. Everyone in the room is fair game as his words are his weapon since he is immobile. I realized that the aids that work with him need to take more time and explain what they are going to do. Give him time to process it and move him slowly. He's bedridden and I'm sure it may be painful for him to be moved. I was told he has advanced Dementia. He is in Nursing Home # 3 and I'm looking for Nursing Home # 4 as they want to discharge him and I believe its because of his behavior. Another thing that I have just figured out this week is that he hates the food. Looking at it, I wouldn't eat it either. He spits it out and yells at the aids. So, every night this past week, I went by Burger King and picked up his favorite, Whopper w/Cheese, French Fries and a Chocolate Shake. I spoke to his Dr first and she said to give him whatever he will eat. Yes, its not the best since he's Diabetic, but he's 83 so I feel he deserves it. They chase his Blood Sugar with insulin anyway. Its amazing, to see the change in him. He seems content, full and he's QUIET. His outbursts are fewer and its become our routine. I would think that he'd be sick and tired of them by now, but I don't think he remembers what he ate the day before. When Dad is fussy and mean, I try to look for the root cause. Something is triggering it. Even in his pre-Dementia years he was mean and exhibited this type of behavior so I"m used to it. Thats just his personality and I'm not going to change it. But what I've discovered is "comfort food" that he loves has made a big improvement. I walk in and don't hear Dad yelling and cussing from the front of the building. The wing is actually quiet and peaceful at least for now.

I brought my 84 yr. old mom home one year ago and she also has been mean, combative, and foul-mouthed. She now takes a low dose of Zoloft and low dose Aricept for Alzheimer's, which has helped halfway. Mostly, it has been like teaching a toddler what is acceptable and not. My heart goes out to you all because I know how hard it is.

II have a similar "Mother" as yourself. With the help of a therapist, and support of my husband, I've finally got it into my head that you can't change people, just change how you respond or not respond to them. If you feel good about everything you've done for her and have jumped through hoops to make her happy then, you're a better person for it. Most children would never do for their parents like you are doing for yours. Especially after the way she treated you your entire life. I would recommend that you be happy with yourself and pat yourself on the back. We with narsisistic parents know what you have had to struggle with. She should count her blessings that her child still has anything to do with her. If she doesn't like the "penthouse" you've created, well, all I have to say is, "must suck to be her?". Kudos my friend.

I have a story somewhat close to your own. I stopped talking to my Mother for 25 years and she moved clear across the country. Happy days. I decided to start talking again with the feeling she's getting older and needs help. The mini Stroke came and my brother here (across the country) had to bring her back here to live in assisted living that we bent over backwards to create for her. Spent money and time trying to create a palace in her apt. --They at the place call her apt. the "penhouse" and her comment was---well I don't know why anyone would call it that." It was beautiful and I spent hours decorating shopping toting this barge and that couch and well....you know what I mean. It's not appreciated. We don't really like each other but she knows my brother and I are all she has. Everyone there is beneath her. My brother goes there one day a week and I go one day a week. Each looking in on her making sure she's healthy and well cared for ---apt clean and she's eating ok. I run errands and he does bills.---We spend the time we need to and do the right thing. (Doctor appt. too but most assisted living have an in house doctor)Nothing says you have to stay and be abused. Limit her holiday visit to an hour or two and bring her back home. Have a meal for her and sit down or have someone feed her and back she goes. There's been a time or two when things get nasty and I pick up my things and walk out the door. Why do you need to spend so much time with this woman. You are (sort of) obligated to see that she's well cared for---but one person does not get to create mental and emotional havoc for a whole family ---why are" you" allowing this? This is FAMILY ABUSE"--

You write "I HAVE DONE EVERYTHING I CAN TO MAKE HER COMMENTS STOP BUT NOTHING WORKS."

You can't change her. No one can change someone else. As noted above her ways of doing things are because she in mentally ill. All you can do is protect yourself. Unplugging the phone is a good idea. Also if you do talk to her, limit the call to a few minutes. Personally, I would not go out to eat with someone who talked to me like that.

My mother is mentally ill. She has Borderline Personality Disorder, In addition, now she has paranoia from vascular dementia. I limited my contact with her for years. I stopped talking to her on the phone last winter as her paranoid delusions and accusations became too hard to tolerate. I have only seen her once in the last 6 months and only then, because she is on meds. My sister also has a mental disorder. In our family I believe it is genetic. My sister has said some terrible things to me too and about me. I have basically cut her out of my life. I don't know if this is the case with you or not, but it is worth examining.

Just because your mother is 74 does not mean you have to talk with her. My mother is102 and I am 77 and this has gone on much too long in my life. I agree that seeing a therapist is a good idea. I have seen many over the years.

I have decided to - at arm's length - work with the people who care for mother to see that she has adequate care. If I do more that that I get sick. Please look after you first. Your "instincts" to help your mother on the train journey to see your uncle are normal and healthy, but because of your mother's illness the outcome of it and having meals with her is not healthy for you. Please do not allow her illness to drag you down. Remember she won't change so you re the one that has to in order to help you self. (((((hugs)))) I know it is hard.

Your mother "hates" you because of her own problems, NOT YOURS. Share this stuff with your sister. maybe there have been enough years that she will be able to look back and see your mother's abuse, whether caused by her being evil or her being mentally ill or some combination of both, for what it was. Don't let her go on keeping you apart if you can help it.

Thanks for your reply. It's funny that you say about the mental illness, as I was just thinking a couple of weeks ago that she appears in her own little world. When you speak to her, she never listens, like she is in a daze. You can repeat things to her over and over and she still won't listen. When we are out and about, her eyes dart about everywhere and she notices every little thing people do, ready to then associate their behaviour with me - she wants me to think that people in society hate me. I try and tell her that if people really have a problem with anything I do, then they will tell me. I think I'll have a chat with my doctor about the counselling as I do feel I have to speak to somebody about this.

You've said you would walk away - in a way I have already done this, as lately, I have taken to unplugging my telephone so I do not have to speak to her. When she phones, we talk for at least an hour at a time, and it is pure hate - hate spewed forth about her neighbours, hate spewed forth about her own brother (her brother was recently visiting her but has recently stopped) yet then she complains about being lonely.

Again, thanks for your reply.

Buddha, do you realize that you mum is mentally ill? Have you been to a therapist or counselor? You need to go see someone who can explain to you the best way to deal with longstanding behavior of this sort. I'm very sorry for your pain. If I were in your shoes? I would walk away.

PS - I have an eighteen-year-old son and I would never dream of treating him the way my mum has treated me.

I am 42 years old and my mum has been awful to me all my life. (More about this part later as I want to discuss what's going on at the present time).

My mum is 74 years old and I feel so guilty because to be blunt, I no longer wish to be part of her life (due to her behaviour and treatment of me) but due to her age, surely I can't turn my back on her now?

She lives in her own flat in a warden-controlled block and constantly moans that she has nobody to talk to yet constantly mischief-makes amongst her neighbours. I understand she must feel lonely as she lost her husband (of twenty years) a couple of years ago (more about this later as I wish to discuss her treatment of me first).

God, there is such a lot to say, so I will start with what is her current pattern of behaviour and go from there: we were in a restaurant having a meal a couple of years ago, and when we left she said "did you notice the woman on the next table rolling her eyes at you every time you spoke? She was making faces at you". I laughed it off and put it down to a cranky woman eating on a table near us. There is a Chinese restaurant that like and go to regularly over the past couple of years, but she is always making faces at the waitress and calling her a "dope". The waitress hasn't heard the "dope" comment but is aware of my mum making faces and it creates an awful atmosphere. About a year ago, we left the restaurant and she said "the man and woman at the table beside us were making faces at you". Again, I laughed it off but thought it was a bit odd as I consider myself a nice woman and I know how to conduct myself in society. One day, about six months ago, we were in the same restaurant and I arranged to meet a male friend at the end of my meal as he was going home the same way as me. Said male friend isn't what you would describe as handsome and he walked into the restaurant and my mum was making faces at him (I think he noticed her making faces). Again, it created an awful atmosphere. When I spoke to her the next day, guess what she said? Yes, you guessed right: "The people on the table beside us were laughing at you and your ugly boyfriend". I then decided when we visited the restaurant, to sit at a table without "neighbours" so to speak, so this way I wouldn't have to tolerate yet more comments about members of the public making faces at me all the time. My mum then complained that the waitress had "put us in the corner away from everybody". I explained to her that I had chosen the table, not the waitress. Anyway, I haven't been to the restaurant in a while with her as I avoid it.

But a new thing has happened now to take its place: my mum's brother is in a home with dementia. It is so sad and I am sure reader's on this website will understand all the emotions that go with visiting a relative in hospital with dementia. Anyhow, I travel with my mum to the home as we don't have cars and the I wish to assist my mum on the train journey due to her age. Obviously, I also wish to visit my uncle but my mum's age does concern me at times. Anyway, we got off the train one day and she said "the woman on the train was making faces at you, as you talk too loud". I laughed it off and thought to myself "well Rachel, you can be loud". Anyway, this has now resulted in a bit of a situation only yesterday, as we again got off the train and she said "did you notice the woman with the blond wig making faces at you, because you were talking and she had been sleeping and you woke her up".

I then said to my mum "look, I'm sorry I woke her up but we don't board trains for a sleep, and I've noticed that every time we are out, it's either one person or another making faces at me. I consider myself a nice woman and I know how to act in society. I have done nothing wrong". Well, this resulted in my mum swearing and nearly foaming at the mouth with rage (my mum is the sort of person that expects no retaliation for her behaviour) and then proceeded to burst into tears at the station. After basically what amounted to a storm in a teacup, we proceeded to the home and our visit but there was such a bad atmosphere it was unbelievable. I came home yesterday and I am in such a deep depression, I feel so ill. I feel I never want to speak to her again but I have to - she is 74 years old. What can I do, just turn away?

Now, you may be thinking this is all an age-thing. But let me tell you, I don't think it is. I remember as a child, spending hours in my room, probably days where she wouldn't speak to me, letting me feel so much guilt for some minor stupid thing. She used to swear a lot as well, calling me a c**** and b******. She even said to me when I was 15 "I wash your period knickers". Really evil words and I haven't got enough room to tell you more.

I was assaulted on the street recently by two women (thankfully, I escaped unscathed and everything is fine) and just happened to be on my way to my mum's. I was obviously upset about being attacked but upon telling my mum, I could see she was upset about it and decided (due to her age) to not speak about the attack anymore that day. But since then, she has never even asked if I am ok. It's never been mentioned.

She lost her husband a couple of years ago to cancer and I feel so bad writing about her like this as obviously she is still grieving. But I just can't take any more. When I was younger, her bad behaviour used to just bounce off me but lately, I've been getting deep depressions. I can't sleep, I hate myself, I feel suicidal. This lasts about a week, I get over it, then meet up with her and it starts all over again.

I was on prescribed medication from the doctor recently and as a consequence of the medication, put on weight and I would describe myself as chubby but by no means very large at all. I had to endure endless comments about how fat I was, how my clothes don't fit, I'm lazy, etc. etc. I gave up the medication to try to lose weight. I HAVE DONE EVERYTHING I CAN TO MAKE HER COMMENTS STOP BUT NOTHING WORKS.

I have a sister (a year younger) but she is more distant from my mum than me. I don't speak to my sister because there has been a family bust-up, all created by my mum, and my sister said some terrible things to me. Sometimes I wonder if maybe my mum never bonded with my as a baby or is it because I have auburn hair like my dad - is that the reason she hates me? My dad died when I was six and when I was about 13, I found a newspaper cutting from a local newspaper saying he had committed suicide. I asked my mum about it but she denied the suicide, so my father's death is a mystery.

My question is: I have to see my mum (due to her age) but when she makes her comments, do you think it would be a good idea to just walk away? Advice needed please.

Ashlynne, you are so right - sometimes no or low contact is the only way to go, and if she is in a nursing home, she is being taken care of, your filial obligations are covered, so why should you bother or trouble yourself further? After all, she created her situation, so she can accept the consequences of her choices.

TreadingWater you're describing my mother to a T. It may be easier for me, single with no siblings, but on the other hand I have no-one to talk to and have borne the brunt of her evil life long.. She's been in a nursing home for 18 months now with me bending over backwards and jumping through hoops of fire but it was never enough.

Daily tantrum screaming phone calls. among other evil things, drove me over the edge and last January I had a black out, driving my truck at 85. It was either me or her and, always careful never to give her my address or she'd call the cops on me if I didn't answer the phone, I changed my number and went no/low contact. I was ill most of the winter.

I still conserve her assets, pay her bills and ensure she has all she needs but, after 65 years of Mommie Dearest, my life comes first. Due to her lying and manipulating I quit my career, sold my home and spent four years in h*ll - a freezing basement, no income, whacked over the head at will, before she went into the NH.

You have to realize your mother is a narcissist and nothing you can ever do will make things right. I suggest for the next holiday time you, your spouse and children plan a trip, rent a cottage in the mountains, whatever, just go away. because your spouse, family and grands.deserve wonderful Christmas memories. I'm sure Madam has always said "Oh, but I have so many friends" ... not. If she has so many friends let them include her in stuff. Oh wait, the so called few "friends" ignore her and she has all sorts of excuses for them not visiting or caring but you have to run and do at the drop of a hat - . yep, been there, done that.

Madam had a stroke (again) a couple of days go, returned to the NH as there was nothing they could do for her. After spending time at the hospital and NH I haven`t been there for 2 days - at 88 she`s bed ridden, and incoherent. I feel I should go, but why. This person caused me pain and grief my whole life,. After 65 years it`s my turn to have a life.

I`m no psychic or medium but I`ve had many experiences in my life involving the other side. I had major dreams and nightmares last night, involving my mother and someone leading her away up a ramp which I challenged, at one point screaming help me in my sleep which sent my dogs crazy. In the dream state two of my deceased dogs were with me too - one, gone 25 years. I`ve only seen her once - seems she only comes when the shtf is about to go down.
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So tired I napped for a bit and took my phone off the hook ( the NH has the number but will call you 4 times for a cut finger). So, do I put the phone back on the hook and get some sleep or not. I think not. If she has another stroke and or expires. so what. She has not a friend in the world and, according to her wishes,, she`ll be cremated and her ashes scattered. I have done all I can and then some.
My note to you is dump her - do family holidays away somewhere. I`m sure she has `so many friends`(delusions of grandeur) to spend holidays with.

rorawin: Spending quality, not quantity, time together is crucial. Is there someone you could hire, or check in to respite care. Maybe you can plan a weekend away or even just a night away. I can totally understand being an only child that the responsibility lies on us. I am learning to break free from the control and yet it isn't easy. I finally got my mom in AL. We almost moved her in with us, and I am so glad I didn't. She reminds me everyday that she is miserable but think how miserable we would be if she were here. It seems you already know. It is not worth your marriage to keep catering to her needs on your own. Find help NOW!! If your health is going down hill, think to yourself, who will take care of her when we are gone? After you have answered the question, that is who needs to be helping take care of her NOW. Best of Luck!

Sounds like your husband has never cut the apron strings and I don't see how you have managed to be so patient. Ya'll need serious marriage counseling in my opinion.

My mother in law has lived with us our whole married life! We are now retired and she stilk lives with us ( my husband an only child) . She has always been anti social, has no friends, hates her sister, and most everybody else! Our lifes are miserable! We can't leave her alone for more then a few hours, and when we do, she goes crazy when we return! I believe there are many underlying mental issues. I am very close to leaving my husband over this, as my health is diminishing over this! My husband has panic attacks, and gets so unset, im scared he may have a stroke! He then takes it out on me and theres no living like this anymore! He won't even discuss nursing care! What do I do to preserve my health, marrage and my sanity!! I cant live like this any longer!!! HELP

Ashlynne, since she is in a nursing home, I can't see that you could have any obligation for further involvement with her. I'm sure I would not - probably I'd demand a public guardian and never hear from her or about her again. My sister is a court clerk and told me about a case where any and all contact from mom has to go through the judge first. Mom cannot send so much as a birthday card, much less actually call her daughter. Really, she may be a biological mom, but as for the rest.....

Yep, my mother was an evil,manipulative narcissist her whole life. After living with the witch for 50 years and taking her daily abuse my father's heart gave out. I blame her for his early death. I quit my career, sold my home and moved 200 miles to care for her (purely out of duty) for four hellish years, trapped in her freezing basement, a mere servant to be used and abused 24 hours a day until she went into a nursing home 18 months ago.

It didn't end there - setting the government on me for misuse of her funds like a common criminal (dammit I have more money than she does) daily screaming phone calls until I became so Ill with the stress I had a black out doing 85 in my truck - it was either her or me. I changed my phone number, made it unlisted and visited once in a while The stress of years caught up with me and I was so ill I mostly hibernated all winter.

Last year I took her little dog to see her (now lives with me) and, then able to use a walker she was screaming to give her the leash so she could show it off. I refused. The little dog is a neurotic terrier (get like the people they live with) and screams blue murder at seeing strollers, wheelchairs and the like. I haven`t taken the dog back since.

A couple of days ago I took Lucy, a tiny kitten rescued off a back road, to see her. Mother is anxious for Lucy to come again so she can show her off but that`s not happening as so many of the residents are looney tunes and violent I`m not taking the risk of the kitten getting hurt.

I shan`t be visiting for a while and my phone is off the hook late afternoon overnight so the NH can`t bother me with every little thing - Christmas eve 4 phone calls late at night for a cut finger ... slap a bandaid on it and go away!
I go up and down. Tonight I don`t want to know any more.

All I can say is if you take an elderly relative in make sure they`re one of those sweet little old ladies (which is rare) otherwise place them in assisted living or a nursing home because they will destroy you.

I am a 63 yr. old daughter whose mother asked to live with me 8 years ago. My childhood was very difficult. My parents argued constantly; my dad was arrested for forging, etc. When my mom called me to come and get her (350 miles away years after my dad passed), my husband and I were going through a really tough time. I brought her here and my husband dies 3 months later. My sister-in-law passed about 5 yrs. later, and my brother did shortly after at 66. I am living through a nightmare. I cant reach her. Arguing is EVERY day~~~~please help.

my mother is bipolar, evil vile person. Last year my dad (who I held so high he had to look down to see heaven) was in hospice here at my home with stage 4 lung cancer. He always said "mom has to be the center of attention) he passed away in January. My mother went off her bipolar meds on purpose, she is in an outpatient unit for her mental crap, she plays everyone. I am in therapy for her, I am going to hospice for grief therapy for my dad. I have to lie to my mom and tell her I do not go to hospice because she hates them. She is vile and controlling. I caretake for her....she lives for drama. I have one friend left and she tries to end that friendship. My mom is selfish and verbally abusive. I say nothing anymore, wont stick up for myself and all she says is dads been gone for 3 months get over it and lets go shopping no she wants to blow his life insurance money. How sad to not have a mother,not have my dad here to keep her butt in line. She is killing me and loving it. Bipolar sucks.

I agree that many wolves come in sheep's clothing. Be careful not to hide behind the hipocrites and pray for those who are in need. Religious is a term used way too often. Religious is a "belief". Do not confuse being religious with a perfect soul or being. These people you are running in to really need prayers and are missing something. I would not consider them to be "religious" in the way they perceive themselves. Do not judge others by what you are dealing with. There are good souls out there. Good luck with finding a way to be the "bigger" person than your neighbor. No judgement rendered here to anyone.

Ash, I agree with you and Vstefans, too. Just because someone is religious doesn't mean they have a glowing halo shining.

On the net a few days ago I saw the news where this guy in a popular Christian rock band put out a contract for $1000 to have his wife killed. Yeeeeah.

And you bet there are some seriously disturbed religious fanatics out there. Nutjobs. Westboro Baptist church comes to mind... *shiver*

My mom put me in a catholic school when I was a kid. I mean, wut...??? I had no idea what was going on, no clue what they were doing or why and those nuns scared the pure T s*** out of me. *shiver* Needless to say, I didn't do well there. She took me out of there soon after, thank God.

What's that quote again...something about going to church doesn't make you a Christian anymore than standing in a garage makes you a car... something like that. Yeah.

My neighbors Rhonda and Bobby don't push me. I flat out told Rhonda that some things would never change no matter what. I think she's just glad she finally managed to get me to start going to church after 7 years. XD

Ashlynne, no problem here! Decency and religion don't always go hand in hand in this crazy world. At my church we pray for "the people most in need of God's mercy" (its part of a popular Rosary add-on) and it obviously works because they show up at our door in droves. You've probably heard that a REAL church is"a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints", and how "if I ever found the PERFECT church, it couldn't have me for a member", and I try to keep that in mind. I still can't figure out how some nuns ever got to be so mean and ended up teaching in Catholic schools...my daughter ran into one who needed to be kept busy in the copy room instead of the classroom at her high school, though I've had the pleasure of meeting lots of nicer ones, most of whom also knew how to have a little fun. It's supposed to be about love. Really spiritual people shouldn't drive you to drink, unless they are taking you to the bar and buying a round for everyone. (Just my $0.02, knowing though my Baptist friends are all now aghast, Stes. Hildegarde and Brigid would highly approve... they've probably found out for sure by now whether Heaven includes a beautiful lake filled with beer :-)

Sorry if my sentiments were misread. I firmly believe that anyone has the right to be whatever they wish and believe in what they choose and that is a personal choice. I grew up Church of England, whatever that is - we never went to church - and I believe that whatever path you choose being a decent human day to day is what matters. After all you can kill someone on Saturday and still go to church on Sunday which I find quite absurd, but that's just me.

As a kid I went to a catholic elementary school (goodness knows why). The nuns were extremely cruel and we were all terrified of them. My stint there ended when one pushed me down a flight of stairs - after more than 60 years I can still see her quite clearly.

My neighbour across the road is a born again christian and impossible to deal with, a recluse who never leaves the house. When I first moved in she tried to latch on to me, no doubt hoping for a "convert" and carrying on continually that the saviour would always take care of me. Great! Here's the keys to the tractor, have him drop by and mow my acreage. Disagree with her about anything and she says "that's satan talking", continue to disagree and she starts jumping up and down screaming quotes from the bible. She's also big on anti government, anti cop, anti just about everything and everyone and conspiracy theories, i.e. she's a nutbar.

One day last summer I snapped and threw her screaming a** off my front lawn. Her hubby is a meek, decent sort and seems quite afraid of her. He has grown children from a prior marriage who will have nothing to do with him which is sad. In the year and a half I've lived there there hasn't been one visitor to their house. No, I don't watch them, my little dog screams at the front window when she sees or hears (or thinks she does) anything.

I apologise if I offended anyone but now perhaps you understand why a lot of talk about religion sometimes puts my hackles up as experiences I've had with folks who are really into it have been ghastly. Each to their own.

Had I not been a decent human I wouldn't have quit my career, sold my home and moved 200km to live in a freezing gloomy basement with no income for four years to care for the mother from h*ll until she went into a NH.

Well said "standingalone". Let everyone believe what they wish, just don't tell someone not to do it.

You pick your friends and not your relatives. Diminished capacity or not, some people are just cruel and there is nothing that you can do to change the behavior or person. Just know in your heart that you did everything to make her life comfortable. However, realize you have a life as well and you have to make a conscious decision to live your life and enjoy your family to the fullest. We cannot be responsible for the happiness of others. That's why we have anti-depressants ;-)

I agree with Jeweltone. If someone wants to talk about their beliefs, they have every right to do so. Period. If people don't like what they read, skip over it. I think telling people not to speak of their beliefs is wrong. People have every right to speak of them and should if that's what the One is telling them to do.

I think the main reason that some don't want religion brought up is that it's such a charged topic. Nations go to war over religion, people go to war over religion. Sometimes it can get ugly, with one person believing one thing, the other something else and they end up brawling over their view. Personally, I wouldn't want to see that happen here either.

I respect everyone's right to believe, to live and to love as they please. It doesn't bother me to listen to other's viewpoints. I just keep my mouth shut if I don't happen to agree with them.

I love my neighbors Rhonda and Bobby who are Christians. They'd love for me to be Christian, too. I doubt that will ever happen, even though I do go to church with them and believe in God myself. I have my own relationship with God and I don't follow some of their views. They can tell me from now until Armageddon gets here that gay people CHOOSE to be gay. Uh huh. I disagree. I think gays were born gay, but R & B aren't hearing it...just like I'm not hearing them. lol I don't mind listening to anyone...doesn't mean it's going to change me.

Let's just all be tolerant. If someone wants to talk about God that's great. If people believe there is no God, great. Whatever floats your boat. As long as we don't mock others or start throwing down in verbal wars over it, we're good. Or should be anyway.