My mom has been a miserable, nasty, and hateful person all her life. As a mother she has dominated every aspect of her children's life.

You can still take care of her to ease your guilt feeling but leave her alone to stew in her own toxic juice. You know she is well cared for so only visit occasionally for a short period. She is going to bad mouth you anyway so ignore it, you don't have to be there to hear it.

Notadoormat: you can only do the bare minimum for her, and then go about YOUR life, right? I too am an only, and I do what has to be done, but nothing more. My NM told me last week that she apparently 'bored' me while I was there visiting. I don't know why she would say such a thing.......I mean, she rolled out a list of complaints longer than a yardstick, put down everyone she knows, gossiped mercilessly about her fellow 'friends' and residents, and then repeated herself about 100 times, since once is never enough. Bored? Nah. I'm just thrilled to death to be listening to the toxic sludge-fest all the time. That's when I decided I would NEVER visit alone again. This weekend my husband and kids won't be around, so I guess 'my arthritis will be in a bad flare-up', preventing me from going over to visit the torture chamber.

Sending you a hug today, and a prayer that you don't ruin YOUR life over HER issues.

Many times. But I'm an only. There is no one else. I could not live with myself if I didn't take care of her. I am not that kind of person.

Notadoormat, have you ever considered going "no contact"? I'm not sure why you feel obliged to manage her affairs. If you're around, she'll certainly still abuse you.

received this e-mail from her yesterday evening.

You denied me access to my money? this is not to be believed . I will
call them tomorrow and tell them that it is MY MONEY. I EARNED IT! YOU
did something that was not given by me. I Want this money back. ASAP!!!

Not the first time this has happened. She doesn't know how to use the computer. She screws it up every single time she touches it. A few weeks ago, she mis-entered her password several times and no surprise, she got locked out. Instead of calling me, she called the company and demanded that they tell her the password. Eventually she called me and screamed at me. I re-set her password and then dropped what i was doing on a workday and drove over there to explain it to her and give her the new password. We had a long conversation about it and other things and I left.

So when I got this nasty e-mail last night I jumped in the car and drove over there. She was still at dinner. We went up to her apartment and I got on her computer. I saw she had two small pieces of paper next to the laptop, both with the old password. I dug through the stack of papers she accumulates on her desk and sure enough, there was the paper I'd given her with the new password. I logged into her account, and sat and waited for her. When she came in I told her to go look at her computer and then come out and apologize to me. She refused. I screamed at her. She denied remembering that I had given her a new password although her convenient memory allowed her to remember specific parts of the conversation. I told her she was a miserable old bitch who wanted everyone else to be miserable too and we were not going to allow her to do that to us.

Then we had the re-run of "you won't tell me where my money is." I have written it down for her multiple times. I have told her multiple times. I have logged onto each account and showed her multiple times. Then "I own that house (meaning our house)" which is her interpretation of "I let you borrow part of the purchase price and you are paying me back at 4.25% even though a bank mortgage would have been 3.5% and it is legally secured by a recorded mortgage and you paid $2,000 in recording fees and attorneys fees for that." But she OWNS my house. Oh and then she says "you will never pay me back - I won't live long enough to get my money back." True. The whole point of this transaction was that she doesn't have enough income to live there. She needed additional income. We couldn't afford to give her the extra money she needed AND pay a mortgage. So we borrowed from her, give her interest at a much higher rate than she could get from a bank, and she has the income she needs. And we've explained that to her dozens of times.

And then she thinks we still HAVE the money. Stupid woman. How can she not understand that we used the money to buy the effing house?

I hate her. And I don't feel one ounce of guilt for hating her. I was able to avoid her most of my life, when my father was alive. I can't avoid her now because I am her only family. My sister (only sibling) died 40 yrs ago. I told her point blank - I am no longer going to behave as though I am your daughter. You treat total strangers better than you treat me. You have been treating me like shit for years. No more. I am not your doormat anymore. You can't take your anger at the world out on me. I am now going to be the "unpaid help." I will do your banking, taxes, get your groceries, or whatever else you need. I will make sure you have good medical care. And that's it. I will do those things and then leave. No socializing, no dinners out, no lunches, no phone calls to chat (not that I ever have anything to say to her anyway).

My husband and I have a wonderful life and I am not going to allow her to become a cancer that destroys our lives.

No response necessary. I just needed to vent. Thanks for listening.

Mom may not have been capable of making the calls and signing the papers necessary to either disinherit you OR relieve you of executor or POA duty. Being disinherited and being relieved of executor duties are two separate things. Her treatment of you may have been early dementia with impaired judgment and you might want to be guardian to see that other wishes formulated when she was more of sound mind are carried out. Think back to the person she was before all this started happening. "Coherent" is relative. Unless you feel that the state will do a better job than you can as guardian, you might want to consider it. It would be totally understandable if not, especially if your relationship had always been totally disagreeable. You do not even necessarily have to visit her much if at all to be her guardian, just get reports second hand from staff, maybe look in at the facility every now and then. She can no longer make decisions for herself at this point, either practically or legally. Unless someone else was POA during those years you were not allowed to help her, and took care of things for her, her finances are probably a disaster area too. If so, don't hesitate to get an elder law consultation to help sort things out.

No comment on how advisable it is to be the physician of record for a family member! Actually, not generally recommended and often not permissible (depends on the state.) But that's water under the bridge now. Sorry it all went this way for you and mom, and hope there is someone who still cares about her that she might have some positive interaction with.

I need any advice you caregivers can give me... I am an only child and my Dad is gone. My Mom is 98 and several years ago, she and I had a parting of the ways as she did not want any help from me in spite of the fact I had been her physician for 20 years. She said that she intended to disinherit me and we stopped communicating two years ago. I have just been notified by the county Guardianship Investigator that my Mom is now in a facility and she is significantly demented and very unfriendly to everyone. I had been the executor of her estate prior to our falling out and do not know what my present status is. I never received notification that I have been disinherited, however, she, when she is coherent repeats that over and over when my name is mentioned. I don't see why I should be a guardian for her if she has disinherited me. If she hasn't, I would certainly assume that responsibility as the executor of the estate. I don't know what to do, has anyone been in this situation? Thanks for any advice you can provide.

Julie, if you are getting refusals from her to get help, get an eldercare attorney. I am not clear why your 911 call did not result in her being brought to an ER for suspected delirium; next time make sure to state she is violent and a danger to you and your son and you are looking for geropsych facility. No guilt. You don't deserve to be attacked.

You r not alone ...my story is similair...Not ony is my mother exactly like your's...she is the guilt master. She did ot raise me, my grandma did...now she is even getting violent. Yesterday I had to call 911 because she attacked me like a wild animal. My son lives here, as well and it hurts me that he sees this.he is stuck between mom n grandma...he is 24 but I have always told him the truth about my loveless family.. now he sees his true grandma and i can't cope with this.. We have a house we each paid 50/ 50 for and so it is on the deed as well...someone please tell me how ..if at all I can get her out so she no longer continues the horrific cycle!
. ...

Thank you all for your feedback. It seems we are all unfortunately on the same page here, dealing with similar painful situations. It gives me strength knowing you are out there and it is encouraging to know that such kind, thoughtful and empathetic people can be the offspring of narc BPDs. After all, we are all somewhat damaged from our backgrounds. Hopefully we can use our experience and knowledge to become better people instead of falling into the awful destructive pattern of behavior that has hurt us all so deeply. A big hug to you all, brothers and sisters!

I have a similar situation with my mother, unfortunately, and to add insult to injury, I'm an only child. Mom's judgmental and ugly behavior is greatly magnified now that she's a widow with dementia and hearing loss. It's quite unbearable to be around her, in fact. I have a few rules in place which I will share in hopes it may help you. I NEVER go to see her at the ALF alone. She uses me as a sounding board but tones it down in front of my husband, the outsider. He is my buffer. Secondly, I limit my calls and visits with her......I make the rules, and stay only until I start grinding my teeth. Then it's time to vamoose. On the phone, same thing. Limited contact is the only way to preserve our sanity!
When I have her over my house for a holiday, the visit is limited in duration as well. This way, I never have to raise my voice or have an argument with her, and that reduces the guilt tremendously. I do the best I can, and it's irrelevant that it's never good enough.

The whole relationship is a miserable mess, but nowadays, I'm starting to focus on taking care of ME and letting the caregivers take care of HER. By the way, they all think the world of her because they dont get to see the ugliness and back stabbing. She's been treating my daughter quite badly lately too, and I've advised her to keep the visits and calls to a minimum.

Good luck

I have a narcissistic mother; she passed at the end of January. She had a good side however (though I could not really know when it was authentic). She was mentally ill but on meds and functional; also very sharp of mind. She was a complete misanthrope in a private discussion, but she charmed acquaintances and strangers. Anyhow, I feel for all of you and I especially was moved by Joeabroad's story. There are reasons I kept helping my mother in spite of her depending on me the most and liking me the least of her children. One reason was to give back to someone who did work hard to keep me in food and shelter when I was a child. Another reason is that she used her manipulative skills to trigger early childhood programming to be passive around her and meet her expectations to avoid disapproval. Sometimes awareness is not enough to not fall into old, toxic patterns. My mother would shift realities to readjust the relationship to her needs, pretending she had not done or said things that gave away her complete alienation from everybody and the hostility that comes with that. That did not come from dementia (she did not have that); I think it really is the personality disorder. It was very confusing and damaging for me. My comment to Joe is that in my case, trying to be REAL with her and letting her know what she had done and how it was hurtful did not work for me. She would just become indignant, deny her behavior and spin it so it seemed I was bullying her in some way. Occasionally I would be totally honest with her and I have to say it would feel empowering at the time, but I found it worked for me better to strategize for my own mental safety and spend a minimum of time negotiating anything or exposing myself by admitting any feelings at all. She does sound potentially dangerous, if not crazymaking and I worry about the niece.

joe, mentally ill parents are confusing. They can seem so normal, but there are things like this that happen. I have a feeling that your mother could have been upset that sister and niece were out cruising. Maybe she wanted everyone together with her. This is something that my mother always wants. She wants all her kids and grandkids to be with her on holidays. She can't understand that they have other commitments, so it makes her angry.

I agree with cmag that a letter wouldn't be much point. You can write it to get out the feelings, then tear it up or burn it when you're ready.

I feel bad for your niece. She must be saint. I'm glad she can get away from it to go to work. And I'm glad the family is involved so the niece can get away some time. You're in a situation, I know. Your mother is difficult, but your niece needs to be able to get away sometimes. Things are difficult to sort through when a parent has a difficult personality. I would keep going as normal, but get a hotel room for the wife and as a getaway place. (Sounds expensive, though!)

Don't be hooked by the threat to dis-inherit you. She just might, but that should not compel you to stay connected. She's made her bed. So let her sleep in it.

Joeabroad, why do you even come home to such a person and expose your wife to her? She's mentally sick with a personality disorder that you did not cause, you can't control and you can't fix. Writing even a calm letter will likely not get her attention or change her. Writing it but not mailing it and seeing a therapist would do you more good. The only thing you can do is put yourself and your marriage on a healthy path and set boundaries with your mother with concrete consequences.

I would likely tell her, "you physically assaulted my wife and that is the last straw, good bye." What does your wife want to do? I doubt she even wanted to be there.

Your mom physically assaulting her tells me that she's a possible danger to others. This needs to be reported.

I posted once before about my 88 yr old mother who is a narcissistic BPD. After my father died a year ago she has worsened considerably, lashing out at anyone close to her, while remaining sweet as sugar to strangers and neighbors. She is in California and I live in Europe and come to visit her two or three times a year, staying several weeks each time (average total of 8 weeks per year, 24/7) even though I still work full time and have a family, so you can imagine my level of commitment here. She is not alone; my sister (who lives about 1000 miles away) comes out about once every month while her daughter, my niece, actually lives at the house. Predictably, my mother doesn't think we are doing enough for her. Mind you, she is 100% mobile and capable of doing just about everything for herself except driving. My niece is unfairly criticized for leaving her alone at the house when she goes to work; My (retired) sister is unfairly criticized for any vacation she might take with her husband and friends as well as spending time with her own grandchildren. And she reserves her worst criticism for me. If she finds out I have been spending a few days with my adult children or my grandchildren instead of flying over the ocean to be with her, she goes ballistic. Recently she has become convinced that my wife is to blame for me not spending more time with her (not true), so her wrath has extended to her and her family. Her comments have become increasingly inusulting and hurtful and everything came to a head recently when I asked her to stop. She emphatically said she didn't want to stop and continued with even more insulting abrasive remarks. I again asked her to please stop. She wouldn't. Then I yelled at her to STOP!!

All hell broke loose. The barrage of profanity and insults going back to the moment I was born would have made Betty Davis blush. It was entirely one-sided. I never recipricated with criticism of my own although maybe I should have. I just let her go on and on for about a half hour, during which she became increasingly profane and violent, even physically assaulting my wife who stood by silently and innocently. Then she ceremoniously threw us out of HER house, promising to dis-inherit me on my way out, adding that she never, ever wanted to hear from me again. Ever!

Well, that was awkward for many reasons. We had just arrived from the other side of the planet and my sister and niece had just left on a 7-day cruise. The next day, she talked with my niece on the phone and, having completely re-constructed the episode in her mind, wondered where I was and why I wasn't there taking care of her as I had promised. In the end my wife and I remained in the area while staying elsewhere. I looked in every day, avoiding any flying objects and insults, to make sure she was OK and had food, etc. until my sister returned. Then we left.

You might think there is more to this story, but there really isn't. My mother is simply a horrible, paranoid narcisist. She is not senile and she is in rather good health so this situation will be with us for a long time to come. There is no way out. She can't put the toothpaste back in the tube and I can't do more than I already do. Nor can anyone else. Since I can't (nobody can) have a normal conversation with her about our relationship, I am thinking of writing her a letter to explain how I feel, without resorting to insults or anything hurtful. She might not read it, probably would just ignore it or throw it away. But at least I could get some things off my chest. Maybe my last chance ever.

Cyndi, narcissism is a bit of a mystery. All of us can occasionally be selfish and hurt people we care about. But the serious, pathological narcissist is constantly and predominantly focused on their own need to stoke their own ego and tends to see other human beings not as human beings with their own needs, desires, and characteristics, but a means to that end. You either help them boost their own ego and are a "good person" to them, or you slip up and speak the truth to them and ask for a little humility or set a limit and become a "bad person" to them. You get cut out of their life if you might reduce their chance of being the center of attention and perceived as totally good and worthy of all admiration, and usually that means perfection in their own eyes.



Everything they do wrong is either not wrong or is excusable; anything anyone else does wrong in their eyes is judged harshly; mistakes are generally not admitted and second chances are not generally given. Mercy and forgiveness is something they have to be tricked into by making it seems like some thing very magnanimous they might do...it is NEVER something they need or accept for themselves.

The disruption of relationships with friends and family was something I grew up with too. I was an only child and terribly lonely. I was NOT "allowed" to feel that way though... the children of perfect moms are supposed to be all happy all the time, so there was no room for any other real emotions that would normally be part of life. Crying was shamed and punished. And my mom was not even a full-blown narcissist by DSM criteria, but it still made life harder and sadder than it had to be.

Cyndi, being nice to some people can still be something a narc does for themselves. The are nice or generous to impress the person. If it is a distant child, maybe they are buying something or giving them money to pull them back into the fold. Strange how it often does just the opposite. When it comes to non-family, they want to present a certain image of themselves. (We all do.) For a narc, it is all about the image and not the empathy.

I like the story of Narcissus, who falls in love with his own reflection in the water. Narcs are a bit like that. They see reflections of themselves in the people around them and not the actual people themselves.

Fear of vulnerability (loving someone makes you vulnerable to them) and need for control. It's not a nice way to be. God help them, too, Cyndi. Hugs x

May be keeping holiday visits to an hour or two at your home or her AL would be more manageable for all. It is tough being a caregiver and there is only so much we can take. Good luck! x

I am totally feeling all of your pain. My Mother is 84 and has vascular dementia. They have a patch and a pill they are giving her. Her know it all attitude and controlling nature is a sad mix with the dementia. A very nasty, ugly person. I am 60 and have had my health fail and I find it's very hard to tolerate her. It makes me feel guilty but I have a hard time rewarding bad behavior. I'm praying God will help me. I just want to run away!

I'm reading this and see myself in each reply--Feel extremely stuck and the guilt eats at me every day. My mom lives with me and my family, hardly anyone wants to come see her, she can be pleasant but has a way about her--likes lots of attention. I have given everything I can give--that brick wall mis approaching fast

Trust me you are not alone. You have just described my 96 yr, old aunt to a T. Bless you my dear for I have walked in your shoes for a very long time. I recently put her into assisted living thinking it would lighten my load. It did some but I still have to take her to all the numerous Dr. Appt. pay all her bills and she has me on speed dial everytime something doesn't go her way. All I can look forward to is thinking ,,,this too shall pass!

I am in the same boat as all of you...and with the number of comments here...at least I can take solace that I am not alone. My 79 year old mother had a stroke 4 months ago, severe, and wanted more than anything to "go home". I moved heaven and earth to get her home. Moved in my niece and her family, who cover the night shift and a block during the day...and hired caregivers for the rest of the time (she is bed bound). She is a diva, and I feel like we have all created a monster. Since my dad died 4 years ago, no one realized it, but she blew through the majority of her savings on complete nonsense and has only got her house left as an asset...which I will soon have to reverse mortgage to pay for all of this. My siblings visit occasionally, and she is a delight for them, but for ME (the POA, in charge of EVERYTHING) she is demanding and downright mean. Telling the restive the family she wants to get my drink so "I will let her spend her $$ and take everyone to Hawaii" while I clip coupons and stretch every penny to keep her in her home. I'm losing it. I can't stand being there, and I'm there every day. My presence is her trigger to moan, complain, and act like I am keeping her from her millions (oh, how I wish there were millions...LOL...I wouldn't have to stretch every penny like I do!). I honestly dislike her, hate my current predicament, and feel guilty and depressed as I bust myself at the expense of my kids, my jobs, and my marriage.

New to this group. Ran across some older posts when I googled "I hate my elderly mother" Awful, isn't it? She's 88 and has been a tyrant in our lives forever. Bipolar and narcissistic, foul mouthed, insulting and dominating. Former opera singer, so literally a Diva. It was heartwarming to read about others in my position. I have reached a point of no return just today when I (for the third time in my 58 years) shouted at her today. Nothing insulting, just the word STOP. First I asked her to stop. Then I begged her. Then I said it loudly. Then I screamed it. Stop what? Critisizing me for thing that happened 40 years ago (which she does every time we speak) and insulting everyone dear to me. Awkward situation because I live abroad and am visiting her with my wife, spelling off my sister and niece who bear the brunt of her care. This is probably the last time I'll see her, because when she kicks us out I don't think I will ever return. My poor sister.

I am so sorry to hear of an elderly loved one acting like that. I can see my father may get to that point, but isn't now. HOWEVER, have you tried just telling her that you have tried your ENTIRE life to please her, and you are now exhausted! While you love her, she makes it extremely difficult to be around her because of her unhappiness with everything in her existence. I have found that with the many elder caregiver jobs I've had through the years, honesty is best. I'm not rude or aggressive when I say these things, but I'm blunt enough to get their attention and make them think. Even if they have Alz/ dementia and I have to repeat the conversation, it gets them thinking. I'm just saying that saying or doing nothing seems to not be working for her. Say something like, " You know Mom, it's a shame I don't have hardly any memories of you being happy. Now your grandchildren don't have those memories either. Is this what you want to be remembered as? Someone who has made everyone aware of how miserable you have been your whole life?? " You can't be the bad guy forever, don't let her keep you all hostage anymore. Good luck to you honey....

You have described what I'm living with to a tee. Im in the process of putting my mother in long term care, it just takes so long for all the red tape to go through. Put you and your family first. She will not change and you cannot change her but you can decide what you can put up with and what you can't. Don't feel guilty I quarrantee she doesn't and probably never did.

Treading Water,
Who said we have to like our parents? Every other person we know has EARNED our friendship. You wouldn't pick a rude, nasty, hateful person as a personal friend, so don't feel guilty to not like you mom's personality. You may feel "responsible" for her well being and it sounds like you have made her very comfortable. The buck stops there. She doesn't get your respect because she hasn't been loveable. Don't be consumed by guilt. Visit the minimum or not at all. Tell yourself you would NOT put up with this behavior from anyone else, then why her? Hopefully this will pass as the dementia progresses. It did with my mom. Have the holidays at your house without her, then take her a piece of pie later in the day. You don't need her "approval" anymore.

My mother is 90 and is extremely nasty she manipulates us by never appreciating how hard we try to care for her, she is abusive then says she is going to write to the newspaper about abuse of the elderly it makes me want to cry - I feel I need to keep away from her but she does need help - this is not recent she has always blamed us for leaving home I am now 61 and left home nearly 45 years ago but still carry the burden and my brother she is a control freak - it breaks my heart

Oh my gosh are we sisters? My mother is exactly the same as yours and I feel the same way. I want to keep my distance and never try to talk with her about normal everyday things because it always goes back to her and her complaints. My mother is 91 and I believe she was this way from child hood. I found your post looking to see if she could have a type of dementia due to the nastiness other than that her mind is clear and she lives alone.