My mom has been a miserable, nasty, and hateful person all her life. As a mother she has dominated every aspect of her children's life.

I understood what she meant. You just have to replace the "and" with "because." I remember getting my parents a case manager back in the early part of the century. My mother let her go almost right away. I arranged for a maid. She fired her. Some people don't want any outsiders in their lives. They will only allow family. The only thing family can do is set limits on what they will do. This forces the elder to look to other sources to get needs met. It is easy for me to write that, but much harder to do.

I found out yesterday that Medicare will pay for a full time home care person, however, I am sure my Mom will not allow anyone else in the house who may "suggest" things she should do. We had a Physical Therapist come in a few times and she did nothing of what he "suggested" she do to help herself. After a while they cancelled her visits. She would rather brow beat me than have a "stranger" there. Another thing that is a "no starter" for a home care person is the fact that she is a bit of a hoarder. Her own bedroom is full of junk and the path to her bathroom is an obstacle course which she refuses to change. She sleeps in a Lazy Boy out in the living room and refuses to move back into the bedroom even though I have offered to clean it up. My room is the only "refuge" in the house because I keep it clean and orderly because I can't stand "messy chaos". That's why my bouts of depression is getting worse. I would love nothing better than to move out but the "guilt" would also devour me.

Wow, Medicare will pay for a FT person to come in? We qualified for some short-term home care with PT, OT, and a nurse, but that was all. I didn't realize that Medicare would cover anything beyond that. I know they don't get into long-term care at all except for a short "rehab" stretch at first.

Your mother sounds so much like mine. I try not to look at her bedroom anymore because the clutter and craziness stresses me. She covers the floors with quilts to keep wind blowing through the cracks in the floor. (No, there are no cracks in the floor.) I try to take them up, but she puts them back down. Finally I gave up and said if she falls, she falls. People would find me negligent probably because they don't know how I tried. She also hoards and puts things on the floor, instead of putting them away. So clothes and belts and shoes are everywhere. It is defeating absolutely. Her room looks like a herd of elephants went through it. If I clean it, it looks like the herd came through the next day. Oy.

My mother spends part of her nights in her room, then goes to the sofa in the living room to sleep. It is a very uneasy house.

Goodness.

It is hard to change things, JessieBelle, I know you're right.

But. Okay then, how bad does it have to get before leaving things as they are is worse than the pain of changing them?

CrazyMom, you've posted quite a long list of your mother wants this, your mother does that, she won't have this, she will do that.

What about you?

You think you would be devoured by guilt if you were to leave. But you are anyway! It's Guilt - along with its buddies Fear and Obligation, making FOG - that is confining you as a quivering jello in one room in the house while the mother storm rages outside and calls you terrible names. Nothing you do is ever enough. She won't permit change. She refuses outside assistance...

I know how bowed down and beaten up you must feel, and I know how hard it is to think straight when you're in the middle of this. But it's a New Year coming. Think hard: what changes would *you* like to make in 2017? Not your mother, YOU.

CrazyMom that is called verbal/emotional abuse, and hoarding is a mental illness. No wonder you are feeling depressed. She really needs trained people looking after her. If she has to go to hospital for any reason you can refuse to take her back saying you are not able to provide proper care for her. Then they will place her. It would be good for you to talk to a social worker about options, and also tell your doctor how you are feeling. You can vent here anytime!

I feel your pain, dear one. The best thing I ever did was to place both of my folks in an Assisted Living Facility. I had no choice at the time, b/c Dad had fallen and broken his hip and was no longer mobile. He lasted 1 year and during that time, Mom started to decline mentally at a pretty fast pace. Nowadays, she's going down FAST, and her once miserable/complaining attitude has become nearly intolerable, thanks to dementia and/or Alzheimer's. The worst of her traits have been magnified to the point where I can only tolerate her in very small doses. She does come here for all the holidays, which isn't pleasant, frankly, but at least I can drive her home and have the house to myself (and my husband). The head nurse at the ALF told me to quit calling her 2x a day, and to leave her to THEM, that they are more than happy and qualified to deal with her. She saves her worst behavior for me, so there is no point in putting myself in the line of fire continuously.
Anyway, I sure hope the best for you, and that you can figure a way around this maze of chaos and heartache. Too bad there's no 'easy' answer or no 'one size fits all' remedy. Sending you a big bear hug.

I am new on this forum and don't have an ageing parent to deal with , life is a gift and if someone is stealing your joy , health , self esteem and happiness then it is natural NOT to want to be around that person as it will affect you badly and that is not fair on the rest of your family / children / grandchildren who need you etc let alone your OWN life which is indeed short

I always say life is too short to be miserable and yet I have found ( hence seeking this forum ) that many of the elderly people I have had the displeasure of meeting have been absolutely HORRID to me and my Grandson with special needs who lives with me ... I end up spending the day crying after they have been horrid to my Grandson who has not done anything WRONG to them at all and not been ''naughty'' at all ( I would check him if he was ) and it is downright cruelty in the end even though I do not see why anyone would be downright cruel to an innocent child especially one with a disability at that but tolerance does not seem to be their strong point

I understand it can be depression but I and many other people have struggled with depression in their lifetime too but hopefully we seek HELP for it and do not ''take it out on others'' or make their life a living hell full of misery which does INDEED love company!

It is NOT the company I want to keep in my life blood relative or not and my mental health and life are IMPORTANT not just the lives of others who won't respond positively whatever you do and it is indeed a thankless task and no ''fruit'' of your labours as even though my Grandson does not seem ''grateful'' for all the care I give him as he does not understand the concept I get SO much reward for looking after him as what I put in I get out in so many ways it is incredible :-)

Just to see his smiling HAPPY face each day fills me with joy which is why if anyone hurts him as he is 9 but has the innocence and brain age of about 4 or 5 I do get upset but I find the miserable ones are rotten to CHILDREN even and have NO ''tolerance'' for them at all and the poor child is either too loud or actually in my Grandsons case does not actually have to be doing ANYTHING to be the focus of the elderly persons wrath , but it does make me feel better coming on here as I did not understand it why it is mainly old people who are so venomous with him for no reason and when I tell them he has a disability they have NO compassion about it whatsoever and they poo poo the very idea as he does not LOOK disabled!

I would NOT care for an elderly relative who was making my life and everyone elses miserable , seems these old 'uns are the type who if are even in PUBLIC they can hurt peope deeply and reduce them to tears by their words and actions ( I had an old woman kick my Grandson yesterday just because he walked past her and ''blocked her view'' for 2 seconds and she KEPT doing it to him and would NOT stop so we had to move seats even though I actually GAVE UP my Grandsons seat to HER out of respect for the elderly! lol )

I also have an extremely grumpy couple living opposite us at our holiday chalet and they are making my life HELL and the man especially ( who is an alcoholic ) picks on my Grandson , me and even my dog something ROTTEN and at EVERY opportunity he can get and the wife joins in and backs him up of course and as a woman on my own I feel he purposely picks on me as he says nothing to the chalet residents who have a burly MALE around!!

I made a complaint to the park manager but heard nothing back :-(

But as a carer I need somewhere where both myself and my Grandson ( and dog ) can go to RELAX and he always SPOILS it for me and is snarling , miserable , venomous and downright HORRID and it never stops no matter what I do , even if I ignore it it carries on , challenge it = no change , be NICE to him to see if that helps , nope , he carries on spitting venom pretty much every day to the point now I have anxiety before I go away on my ''break'' and am thinking he will ''win'' in the end and drive me and my Grandson away from the holiday home I have put so much care , attention and money into for my Grandsons sake as I see it as his holiday home and yet this man is spoiling it for him as well and am fed up of them making ''innocent victims'' out of everyone they decide to ''victimise'' for the hell of it to make themselves feel a little bit better as he LOVES having a go at us and being cruel he seems to actually DELIGHT and revel in being cruel like it is his end of life mission or something but God forbid I ever turn out like that but I focus on healing my own pain NOT taking it out on others and there is psychological help out there for everyone who wants or needs it but they don't want that and would rather just go round making everyone elses life around them miserable to the point they drive them away and for the first time in my life EVER I was actually wishing someone would DIE so we can have some PEACE

Nannynoo: My suspicion is that you react in front of these evil people, and they perceive weakness when you try to be nice. They are anti - nice, and they feed off your reaction, and enjoy your pain. The only way to stop it is to extinguish the behavior by YOU not giving them an opportunity and when that fails, not reacting at all. No more offering your seat to little old ladies - you are taking care of a special needs person, which means that you have special duty to protect him from strangers. No more reacting, saying hello, or being friendly to the people at the chalet - you have to protect the special needs person, and speaking invites attack. These are not safe people but glory in the anonymous nature of being on vacation where no one knows them. The worst comes out.

I was talking to my next door neighbor about my crazy mom situation because he has tried to help her too but she blows him off also. He suggested that I might think about taking a vacation to get away from her for awhile. He said he would take her to the store and doctors office if she needed. He said to get her one of those medical pendants if she falls in the house. He said, once you are gone long enough maybe she might miss you enough to knock off her "mean streak". Just tell her every time she makes your life miserable, threaten to take a "vacation". I have a friend of mine in Texas that wants me to come visit them and I am seriously thinking about it.

CrazyMom, as long as you can trust this man - that he is not some kind of gold-digger - go for it! It may give you some perspective and a defense against the false guilt that is keeping you trapped and unable to insist on changes your mom and you both desperately need.

HI VSTEFANS -

NO, I trust my next door neighbor. He's been our neighbor for over 30 years and has helped us alot since there is no man around to help. His wife bakes the best chocolate chip cookies in the world !!! 'Bout time we will get some more for Christmas ! He is just trying to help her but she is set in her ways and doesn't want help from anyone.

That's a great idea CrazyMom..........my husband and I ran away on vacation for 2 blessed weeks in September, and guess what? Mom did MUCH BETTER without me, and that's the honest truth. She was on good behavior for about 2 weeks after I returned (believe it or not) and I had NO CELL PHONE and no daily check in's to worry about, and it was pure BLISS!! I hope you can take that trip to see your friend in Texas, you'll be a whole new woman when you get back! :)

Thanks Lealonnie1 - I talked to my friend last night and made plans for after Christmas. I think it is a great idea also. I was glad to hear your Mom "straightened up" after you guys returned. Because I am at my wits end if she doesn't stop her "bullying". Sheeeesh !! My Own Mother, bullying me. Who would have thought !!

Reading many of the comments on here has helped me to understand that my situation is not unique. Though when you are caught up in the middle of it you feel totally depressed and guilty!
Though never formally diagnosed I believe my Mother has a Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Now at the age of 86 she is an even more exaggerated version of her true self. No one has had the same physical pain as her. No one has had as many problems as her. No one has ever helped her ( especially her daughter me!).
My stepfather is 90 and in poor health but up until the last year he was the carer for my Mum,who has had more illnesses than any other living being ! ( and yet still managed to rule the world). My step brother is a doctor and both my parents consider him to be the 'golden one'. Despite the fact he lives 230 miles away and rarely visits them. I on the other hand have try to visit each and every week despite working full time and not living in the same town. But whatever I have done to help them ( which is a lot!) in my Mothers eyes its nothing.Her repeated flare ups ( physical at times) are always directed at me or my husband Bill and she never apologieses afterwards. So if it wasn't for me returning with my tail between my legs and eating humble pie,my Mother would never communicate with me again. So the cycle starts again.
Recently she told me I was evil with evil eyes which were the same as my ( dead) fathers eyes. He died when I was 6 so I never knew him.
My Mother has a sound mind and is even still running part of her former business. Yet she wasn't well enough to attend either of my children's weddings etc over the last 6 years. She only ever does what she wants to do and uses her health as an excuse. Most of her health issues are in her head.
However she is perfect with strangers and loves to tell them how unhepled she is. She constantly bad mouths me to everyone including my brother ( the golden one!)
I am exhausted with the emotional roller coaster and at the age of 63 I have had enough. Sometimes I travel to see her on my day off and she wont even let me in!
Currently she hasn't spoken to me for 3 weeks and wont reply to my emails etc.
I wish I could just forget about her but I have this deep guilt feeling which keeps making me return for even more abuse!
Incidentally even though she loves to tell me how wretched her life is she never ever helped her own Mother in her time of need.
I wish I could detach my emotions but I find it so hard.
Thanks for listening folks.

It is the crazy people like your narcissistic mother who drive the rest of us to see a therapist. Your mother like all narcissistic mothers has groomed you from childhood with F.O.G., ie. Fear, Obligation and Guilt. She's got you in an emotional dance that she is not going to change, but you don't have to keep dancing with. My recommendation is to see a therapist for support and guidance in detaching from your mother and setting boundaries.

That you for sharing your story. I feel like i just read my on life story. I had no idea anyone else was in this same emotional hell. How have you delt with it.

Ineedyourhelp
Were you relating to my life story ? If so the answer is - not very well!
I am a strong person in my working life etc but this 'mother' situation just makes me feel constantly low in mood. I am always trying to walk on eggshells when near her!
At the moment she is ignoring me again but that's her usual punishment round Christmas time! Of course she will make neighbours etc think it's me abandoning them!
I can't win!
What about you how are you coping?

Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back and its workbook are great resources.

Read Leaving Home by David Celani. We keep trying to resolve our childhood hurts by recreating and reliving them. It ties us to our hurtful past and to the people in it or ones like them. It can be overcome. Cmag's suggestions are great too - therapy and Stop Walking on Eggshells. The guilt you are feeling is called false guilt due to not meeting the (unreasonable and unhealthy) expectations of your narcissistic parent. You are dong nothing wrong and have nothing to feel guilty about. A narc will manipulate you by causing you to feel guilty so that you are more under their control and will keep trying to please them which is an impossible task. A narc does not want to be pleased or to solve problems, they want attention - called narcissistic supply, If you are giving them that they will "play" with you to get more. Stop giving them attention for these games. Stop calling/.visiting in response to their behaviour and start being proactive rather than reactive to them. You have to develop a bit of a thick skin, as they will drag other people int the game and use these other people to get what they want and make you look bad, The worse you look, the more you try to please them. So the neighbour thinks ... whatever. You know who you are and what you do. Get off this merry go round, establish some boundaries, and detach from the sick games. Be your own person and don't allow your parent to jerk your strings. It takes work, and for me, decreased contact while making sure my mother is well looked after by others. You have to protect yourself. (((((hugs)))))) to all with this problem.

Lizzie7, it is amazing how much our mothers are alike. I have always felt that my Mother was severely Narcissistic. She just turned 90 and while she has always been the most self-centered and negative person i have ever know; all of her church and lodge friends thinks she is precious. This is what is so hard to deal with. She treats a total stranger with kindness and respect and yet her own Daughter get the total opposite.

I left home at 19 and move from Va to Ca. My farther died 21 years ago and my only sylbling (who lived across the street from Mom) died 20 years ago.
When i retired from the Military i moved back east to DC. This help keep some distance, 9 years ago i purchased a home in DurhamNC. An hour from Mom.

This past year i have totally put my life on hold to renavate the house next door to Mom so when i need to be there i have a separate place to stay. I figured it would be an 80/20%. Oh no it has been more and more every week. Did i mention i also am the sole care giver for my life partner who is in stage 5 Alzheimers. And mom total resents my commitments to care for Mel.

I am a very strong accomplished woman. I am currently seeking Mental Health counciling to help me thru this. But i must say i dont know what to do with mom.

With Christmas approaching i totally wish i could take Mel and run away till after new years. The demands and holiday guilt has already increased.

I wish you much rest and personal peace during the holiday.

Thanks golden23 that's really good advice and I will try hard to tread that path! You are right of course.
Cmagnum- thanks for your support too
It's just good to know it's not just me!
Have a great Christmas everyone

Ineedyourhelp- I really feel for you and yes I totally understand your situation. Reading some of the other responses to my story has helped me and hopefully you too.
Remember you only have one life and we need to understand that it's up to us to make it as good as possible for us and those near to us. Narcissists like our Mothers will try to rule us but we need to break free from their control!
See I can talk the talk! I just need to get on with it now!
Take care and happy Christmas

lizzie and ineedyourhelp - many here have the same experience that you have of seeing your mother described by someone else, and being relieved that you are not the only one. There are lots of us here with a narc parent and some with narc sibs as well. It helps to look up on line how to deal with narcs They will suck the very life out of you if you let them. They play games with their money, their health, - anything that will get them what they want and they have no regard for others except in a using sense.

Ineedyourhelp - it will be more and more as she wants to be the center if your universe. You have to curtail that by setting boundaries as to how much you are prepared to do for her. Many narcs refuse outside help and play the "mother" card trying to force their child into servitude.

We all are entitled to our own lives. It has to be our choice how much we give up to another person. They use FOG - fear, obligation and guilt to manipulate people into doing what they want them to do. Read about detaching with love, read about children of narc mothers (or dads), read about FOG and codependency. Equip yourself. It is not an easy task as you have been trained from young to fill their needs and they know how to push your FOGGY buttons. Therapy helps a lot. I have gone to therapy off and on most of my adult life re my narc mother and sister.

Lizzie - yes, you have to start actually working out these things by changing yourself and your responses. Once a narc parent senses that they are losing control, it will likely get worse for a while, the games will escalate. Stand firm with your new decisions/ boundaries anyway.

And come back for support. We all need it. ((((((((hugs))))))) and Merry Christmas to you too.

Golden23- thank you soooooo very much. I have read your posting several time. And I am so glad I found this site. You are so right about the manipulation of money and property. I have been in and out of the family will so much it is a standing joke. But a month ago my 11 yr old great niece asked me "what is a Will". Yes my Mom told her 11 yr old Greatgrandchild that she was out of her will. It breaks my heart that they are now experiencing this same behavior.

Thank you again for you advice and kind words. It is strange how much better it makes one feel to be able to discuss this issue with others who understand. Wishing you a vety merry christmas.

Oddly enough, there is a closed Facebook group page called Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers *you have to send a request to be allowed in* that has been enormously helpful to me in dealing with mine. Until I'd heard lots of other stories, I just didn't realize what my mother was all about. When I listened to other women's childhood (and recent) memories, I was like OMG, that is ME to a TEE! Anyway, I stayed in that group for a couple of months and then left. I wasn't looking to 'compare stories' or to continuously dwell in negativity and/or self-pity.......I just wanted to learn more about this personality disorder. It helped me an awful lot and I took away several good tips for taking care of MYSELF and not falling into the narc traps all the time.

i

My Father is 93 years old he lives alone in Florida he has refused home care help and refuses to move back close to his family so I can help him. He is very verbally emotionally and mentally abusive to me He also manipulative He has unreasonable demands for me to live with him when it is diffucult for me to visit for just one week and I still need to work to suppliment my income. He want his way or no way either I live there to help him or he is leaving everyone out of his will He refuses to move back here to an independent living so I can help him. I do not know why I even want to help him the way he treats me I do not know what to do anymore

You want to help him because he is your father, but under the circumstances, moving in with him would most likely be a huge mistake you would regret and possibly never recover from. Sorry he is putting you in this position.

I agree, don't move in with him. I'm afraid you'll be sorry and then have no way out.

My mother was diagnosed with Dementia 2 years ago. She didn't get along with my partner so I had to find myself and apartment and move her in. I am the only one financially stable enough to care for her. I am only 49 and still need to work full time to afford benefits for my Rheumatoid Arthritis. She has been alone with me for a year today. Its been a constant fight with the services to have her in a home. I'm drained at work and I cant function anymore however taking some time off would ruin my mental health being around her. 24 hours a day and being at work is my space away from her. She had abandoned me at 14 and my anger for her still lingers. I had her out of my life for a long time until she lost her second husband that's when she walked back into my life. This dementia had made her nasty, cruel and I'm so sick of her being around. Sounds cruel and yes the guilt just kills me but after I've done all I could the only I do now is provide the necessities I feed her and make sure she's safe by having the neighbour and other caregivers to watch while I'm at work.. I stay away from her and lock myself in my room when she becomes violent. The services and the system is slow to putting her in a home. Its a constant battle. Its no wonder caregivers fall into a depression and begin to hate the parent they're taking care of . I've tried and tried to help her only to be verbally and mentally abused and unappreciated. she's just lucky she still has a roof over her head otherwise she would be homeless .. Cant do it anymore I've reached the end of my rope.