My mom has been gone since September. I have only spoken to her twice on the phone. It’s awkward. My brother changed her phone number because he’s a bully. They didn’t give it to me. My calls weren’t even going to voicemail, so I figured the number had been changed. I had to get it from my brother’s son, my godson.

I will no longer justify their behavior. I’m not interested in beating a dead horse anymore or setting myself up for more disappointment, anxiety and depression.

I’m still hurting and angry for being threatened with elder abuse from my brothers because I set boundaries and she wanted everything her way. She always pitted my brothers against me and I did everything in the world for her. She lived in my home for nearly 15 years.

I will not open the door back up on the toxic relationship with my brothers. Therefore I am not interested in going to my brother’s house to see her because he will attack or degrade me. I know my brother. He was never kind to me. We have never had a good relationship.

I called mom once. Did not go well. Very awkward. Wounds too fresh. Of course, she blamed me for everything. My loser brothers do no wrong. They could criticize me but I wasn’t allowed to criticize them. Ridiculous!

Of course, I think about her. She’s my mom. I do love her. I believe she loves me in her own way. Sometimes I think it would be easier if I didn’t have feelings for her. I feel anger but I don’t harbor hatred in my heart for anyone.

There were many times that mom and I were very close. She did many special things. She was an incredible cook. She made Halloween and Mardi Gras costumes, beautiful clothes, homecoming and prom dresses and my wedding dress. She’s an excellent seamstress!

I think there will always be complications in family relationships. No one has a perfect family. I forgive her for things she truly didn’t know any better about.

I needed to know where I stand so I had my husband call last Saturday to ask her if she wanted to permanently close the door and I would respect that decision if that is what she desired. I explained to my husband that I would need closure instead of hanging in limbo if she chose not to speak to me.

She told my husband that she would speak to me. He told her that she was welcome to call me too.

So she calls today. I am struggling with my emotions. I really don’t want to hear about my brother and SIL and how wonderful they are. My God, it’s only been a couple of months. They aren’t burned out. SIL works full time. She gets away from my mom. Plus my mom isn’t going to show her true colors with them. She never has with her sons.

Mom and I have a strained relationship. Caregiving ruined our relationship. I was no longer her daughter. I was her nurse, aide, chauffeur, personal shopper, advocate, cook, laundry attendant, kept her room tidy, etc. I did everything that needed to be done!

Any advice from others would be appreciated.

I am just wondering if the phone conversations will become civil in time or if they just need to cease. Like I said, I am struggling to sort through my feelings. I would never be a primary caregiver ever again. It wasn’t the right choice for me. No offense to anyone that it has been the right choice in their lives. We all have different situations.

I would never, ever want my daughters to be in this position. I never want them as a caregiver to me.

I’m leaving out hurtful details because I don’t want to rehash it in my mind. Just too exhausting.

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NHWM, you know that on this forum, we all care about you and worry about you. There are very many of us daughters (me included) who had trying relationships with our mothers. For myself, everything will be ok for a while with good memories of my mom and then suddenly I remember something nasty or hurtful she did. Even at this time of year. (She passed the Tuesday before Thanksgiving)

No one has ever doubted that you love your mother. But you are punishing yourself by picking at the scab, so to speak, of your relationship with her. You are allowing yourself to be bullied and kicked around by her and your brother. Not to be harsh, but you are not part of their “clique”. It hurts my heart to see you trying so hard to be a part of their snarky little group. Consider whether you think it might be a good idea to regain your self-respect. You are a kind and good person. You deserve better than groveling at their feet, at their mercy. Be at peace with this, my friend. You deserve better. ❤️❤️


We all love you. I agree with everything that Joy just wrote.

Your mother has a deep seated need for EVERYTHING to be perfect. Not a hair out of place, no slip showing. She is going to tell you a bunch of big fat lies about her perfect life, isn't she?

Wish her well in her new, self-chosen Hell. She needs for you to be upset; don't give it to her. "I"m SO glad that you're happy mom; it's clearly a much better fit for you over there".

Call your therapist and ask for her/his wise counsel about this situation and how to get past it.

NHWM: Also, I'm assuming that things with your mom didn't go south immediately, did they? You had her in your home for what, 15 years? And your Brother has hired in caregivers, hasn't he?

Imagine if mom had "played ball with you" about getting some help in instead of insisting YOU give up your life and time with your family to attend to her every physical and emotional need, both real and imagined. Just imagine! You could still be the caring daughter with your mom in her home. But THAT didn't suit mom, did it? It had to be her way or the highway. But that only applies to you; not to her sons. Because boys, to your mom, and to many other women of her generation, are inherently worth more than girls. It's a sick calculus; I grew up with it and I want to call out the BS that it is.

"So nice mom, that you agreed to have hired caregivers at your expense over there; I wonder if you'd still be here if you'd been so flexible when I suggested that?"

Write down all of your snarky responses. It might feel good to get them down on paper, even if you never say them out loud to her.

She's a real piece of work.

Wow, this is a horrible, twisted, difficult situation. So complicated. So emotional. Your head must be reeling!!!

Caregiving is HARD. No doubt about it. No matter how selfless the caregiver is. I think it is almost impossible for it not to ruin a relationship. It just shifts the dynamic so dramatically how can any normal relationship survive?

Your brother sounds like a piece of work. So sad. I think that with more time, you will feel a little better and be able to deal with your mom better. Brother? I'd kind of permanently take him off my christmas card list, if you know what I mean.

15 years of your life to care for her was a LOT! You should be proud of that and know that you gave her a lot of good years. Until you just couldn't do it anymore. There is no shame in that. In time, you will be able to feel that way, maybe not today, or this year but eventually. You're going to have to be patient and let "time heal all wounds".

Do some nice things for yourself. Nourish your body, mind and soul. You need to replenish after so much hard work and burnout for so very long.

While it's horrible, so horrible, to be accused of any kind of abuse, you have to try (key word!) to let it go. Work on it. Inch by inch. I do NOT mean to forgive them or let them back into your heart to hurt you again but so that you are not harboring too much negativity and anger which is only going to hurt you.

I feel so bad!!! Makes me think my situation is sooo easy compared to what you've been through.

Please take care of yourself and be kind to yourself!!

If you already have a therapist, I'm sure these topics are being discussed. If you don't have one, I'd seriously consider finding one and letting them help you sort out these complicated emotions.

I like the idea of venting in writing and then throwing it away, burning it, whatever to be rid of it.

Thanks joy,

I appreciate your kindness.
I haven’t really tried much. Didn’t feel guilty about it either. I made time for me. I needed a break. It’s why I only called once. It’s been so nice catching up with people and doing things.

I did tell my husband that I needed to know where things stood for healing if she no longer wanted contact. It hasn’t been all that long. Plus, I suppose her age has something to do with it. At 94, who knows when she will die.

Or if she did want to speak to me, to only call on a limited basis because things are different.

I used to speak to her practically daily when things were going well and she and my dad were in their home.

The kids loved their grandparents. The oldest one once threatened to ride her bike to grandma’s to live because I wouldn’t give her cookies before lunch!

Hahaha, she said that if she lived with grandma she could get cookies anytime she wanted. She was only 5 years old. Was so cute.

She was a wonderful grandma to my girls. Except for her perfectionist attitude, Hahaha, my daughter still laughs about her freaking out when they colored outside the lines in their coloring books.

I know what you mean about anniversaries. The anniversary of a death is a reminder. My mom recently had a birthday, another reminder.

It’s so different after they move into our homes. The relationship changes. In my case, not for the better. It didn’t start out badly. After years, it wore me down.

You’re right. The conversation with mom picked the scab open. I don’t want to be at odds with her. Still, it’s not easy. It wasn’t even a long conversation. Just enough to stir it up. Maybe five minutes or so.

When I tried to call her earlier in the month for her birthday she didn’t answer.

My brother had a big party for her. The only party he ever had for her. Do you know how many times I had parties for mom, dad, grandma? I invited everyone.
But he has one stinking party and excludes me and she thinks it’s great! I would not have gone though.

Geeeez, I got scolded when I stopped hosting holiday dinners for them.

I agree with Barb, just keep telling her you are happy she is happy, and let it slide. I know that's easy to say and hard to do.. If you do this, and try not to engage, and change the subject when she gets on how wonderful Sonny boy is.. you may find a way to at least civil talks. Give it a timeline if you need to,, say 3 months. Then if you are still not able to handle it ( and I get that too) , then call it off. Just cards for the holidays, and then don't feel guilty. And I am glad your hubs is supporting you. You have my love.

I have an appointment with my therapist soon. That’s what I need to say to mom, that I am happy for her. I actually did tell her that but I didn’t want to hear about my brother and said to her, “Well, he hasn’t done it for 15 plus years!” I cared for mom long before she moved in. She stopped driving because of seizures and Parkinson’s. Obviously, I am still dealing with hurt and anger. I do need to work through it.

Indeed, she likes things a ‘certain’ way. To me, that would be miserable.

The lady across the street from me went to therapy for severe OCD. She says it’s a burden and almost destroyed her marriage. They separated for six months but they reunited.

Once, I was at her house. She invited me for lunch. I had water to drink and placed my glass in the sink. She promptly picked up the glass, put it in the dishwasher and wiped the condensation from the glass in the sink.

The poor woman cleaned before her housekeeper arrived. Then cleaned after she left. Her husband tried to be understanding but asked her why were they wasting money on a housekeeper. She drove him nuts! Not a thing could be out of place.

She did care enough to seek out therapy. Her boss at work adored her. She was the perfect employee!

My mom didn’t seem as miserable as my neighbor with her perfectionist ways. She just thought that things should be done her way. I was the one miserable because I don’t want to be a perfectionist and drive myself or other people crazy.

Your mother is a difficult woman, to put it mildly and not use expletives. Right? Do you expect her to tell you that life sucks at her new home and that she'd love to come back? Or do you expect her to continue the pain parade and rub salt in the wounds by telling you she's now living in Disneyland?

Nobody is mean and miserable all the time. Even the worst people on earth have their good moments. To dwell on those good times and hope to bring them back is the things that fairy tales are made of.

Your mother has done nothing but cause heartache and pain for you for a long time now, and she's going to do her very best to continue causing heartache & pain for you in the future. These phone calls are going to be torturous because they're designed to be torturous.

You've gotten her out of your home and into a new place with your dysfunctional brother who also has a way of torturing you like a professional. You can continue to try and form a new relationship with your mother, and even your brother if you'd like, expecting things to be different now. But remember the definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over & over again expecting different results.

If I were you, I'd move on with my life and find joy by shining your light on others besides your mother. She's had the best of you for your whole life up until now. Don't let her take what's left of your life and destroy IT. Okay?

If you feel you MUST speak with your mother for whatever reason, then do so very infrequently. Perhaps set your mind to calling on holidays or whatever, and brace yourself for an emotional meltdown afterward. When I call my mother nightly, I say a prayer beforehand because I KNOW she will have SOMETHING rotten to say during the call. It is what it is. So I brace myself and I keep the calls short and to the point. In other words, I minimize my emotional investment. I suggest you do the same.

Start taking care of YOU and DH now, you both deserve it! Sending a big hug your way

Became uninvolved with my mom a year ago. Best thing I ever did. Let alcoholic brother and sister take care of her. My daughter stopped by the other day, after a year, said the house was a mess, sister at the bar, mom seemed happy. It's their choice.

Exactly! Amen, Amen and Amen! I do journal. My therapist told me to do that.

NHWM: Just b/c your mother wasn't and isn't 'as bad' as the seriously dysfunctional OCD neighbor across the street doesn't mean she wasn't and isn't seriously dysfunctional. Things could always be worse, yes, but things could always be better, also.

Now MY mother would be the one to wipe the condensation off the glass you put in the sink. Then she'd wipe the sink down, of course, and then wash the glass thoroughly before placing it the dishwasher which would be full of already-washed dishes & bowls that didn't need to be in the dishwasher. Then she'd run off to vacuum the carpet in perfect LINE FORMATION so there'd be a PATTERN to the carpet after it was finished. Nobody was then allowed to walk on the perfectly vacuumed carpet lest she'd have to vacuum it AGAIN.

There are levels of OCD, levels of dysfunction, levels of pain and harm that others give out. It's ALL dysfunction, ALL pain, ALL harm, it ALL hurts. And it's up to US just how much we're willing to accept!

"Just thinking things should be done her way" is a big control issue that harms all the people who have to follow her rules, like her children. It's the "Just" part of your statement that makes me think you don't realize how harmful this woman really is!

Needhelp, I have no advice for you because I have absolutely no experience with something like this’s a ((((big hug))))! Whatever the outsome is, I truly wish you peace & happiness. Know in your heart that you are a wonderful daughter and you did absolutely nothing wrong here. You’re not the bad guy. You went above and beyond for your mother and your brothers. You are a rockstar in my eyes!!

Thanks so much, againx. I can tell you that you understand. I just want to move past the anger. Barb, is right. I have to discuss it with my therapist. I was thrilled to finally have my life back and kept busy with things that I couldn’t do before. Those things distracted me from my mom’s actions, which is a good thing. Hearing her tell me stuff on the phone triggered the negative response. Joy was right that it picked the scab open.

I don’t want her to die with us being on negative terms.

My brother, eh. Sorry to say, I don’t feel like he’s a brother. Younger brother is the same way. Hey, my oldest brother, the ‘black sheep’ had a bigger heart. He’s dead. But we had a relationship outside of mom. We’d go hear music together when we were young, lots of stuff.

My brother is extreme in everything. I just can’t be like that. I am ‘live and let live’ as long as they aren’t hurting anyone. He is the type if you aren’t like him then you’re abnormal. I don’t want to discuss politics 24/7 like him. I don’t have a twisted view of the Bible like he does. If he would have been the only christian witness in my life, I would be an atheist! Hahaha

Yeah, it does take time. It’s hard because I really did lose myself when I was a full time caregiver. Now I can do things that I hadn’t been able to do in years. Just going for a drive is nice.

Don’t laugh but even driving for over an hour in traffic in the rain, no less to see my daughter in Baton Rouge, was liberating! This is her last year at LSU and I never got to see her apartment because of having to stay with mom.

I saw her apartment, chatted with her roommates, went to lunch, then a coffeehouse. Looked in a couple of stores. Normal things that most people take for granted.

My daughter had the biggest smile on her face. That made it all worth it to me. She said,”Mom, I didn’t think I would ever get to show you how I decorated my apartment.”

Her dog looked totally confused! Hahaha, he is used to seeing me at my house. That little stinker is so smart (poodle) and he looked at me like, what are you doing here?

Oh NHWM, do you realize that you just gave her control over your life again.

She doesn't get to decide if and when you talk. If you want to talk call her or not, don't answer her calls if you don't feel able to take her abuse.

I know that you hold your mom in great esteem, can I recommend that you go back and read everything that you posted here. Seriously, you are forgetting everything that led to this day.

You have received some really good advice from Barb, I think I would take back the control you gave her and tell her that she could have hired aids at your house and things would have been different.

I am actually pretty angry on your behalf. It's hateful to tell you how wonderful her baby boy and his wife are after everything that she did to you. It is just pure hateful.

I pray that you can find a way to let her go.

I have to say that when I was in business I knew that every single employee would show their true colors in about 90 days, people can only pretend for so long. She will show her true colors to them. The honeymoon will not last forever, but that should matter not to you. Doesn't change anything that has transpired.

You can forgive, but until they all truly confess and repent, separate yourself from the nonsense.

You have a lovely family, give yourself to them and don't give those other people anymore head space.

You can do it!

NHWM, you have been so kind to me here and I have learned a lot from you. I also hurt for you, it seems as though you are grieving the loss of a mother you never had, who is still alive. If they live close to you that probably makes it worse. I would be curious too as to what's really going on over 'there'.
Meanwhile, I think what happens is we get used to the misery when we're in it.
Ughhh, not healthy but we are conditioned!! So, it might take some more time to get used to not feeling like you weren't enough for her. You bent over backwards and now you need not.
Get You back. You are missing 'good Mom' btw. If she were to beg you to come back and you said ok, but this time it needs to be different. So, she says oh yeah it will. Within the week you would be wanting to strangle each other. Hypothetically of course ;) Hugs. You will heal from this abandonment you feel.
The dust will settle.

Needhelpwithmom, you are such a strong woman. You have helped me so much!! You really are a good person. I know this must be so difficult for you. Please talk to your therapist. It always helps. I think people feel down near the holidays. Holidays bring out so much emotion. Hugs to you. You will get through this!!

In 3 1/2 years, you were never able to go see your daughter at college because of mom?

How abusive she was to you AND to your daughters. I don't care how many costumes she made.

That is just cruel. I'm angry on your behalf.


It may sound silly but I started tearing up to see my daughter’s apartment. My daughter sent me pictures to my phone but I was glad to see it in person.


Yeah, the holidays are getting to me. It’s a rough year for me. I will get through. I have gotten through some tough things that I didn’t think that I could.

Thanks for your kindness and encouragement. Means a lot.


I know that you are right. I just miss things. I miss when things were good. When mom and I healed a long time ago from hard things during my childhood, I was so happy.

I wanted to have a loving relationship with her like I did with her sister, my aunt and her mom, my sweet grandma.

In all fairness my parents were dealing with really hard issues due to my now deceased brother.

Parents didn’t have support, siblings didn’t have support either. I used to think that my brother died when I saw him overdose on heroin. What did I know? I was only about 7 years old the first time I saw him overdose. It was scary.

So much energy was put into ‘fixing’ him that I was on my own a lot. My aunt kind of took over in the summer, sometimes weekends during the school year too.

Mom was there for important things at school. They never missed any of my school plays or open houses. They did the best that they could considering the circumstances.

You know how it is. You have nieces. I adored my aunt. Sadly, she died in her 40’s, kidney failure. I missed her so much. My uncle died in his 40’s two years before, cancer. I was a teenager when they died. We took in my cousins to raise.

I loved my parents but when my aunt and uncle let me stay with them over the summer I didn’t want to go home.

I know that sounds awful but my aunt made me feel like a part of her family and important, special. It was peaceful in their home.

A couple of years before I married I reconciled with mom. We were able to establish a good relationship for many years. I mean really good.

We even took them on trips with us. We were very happy. I got to show my girls where their grandpa grew up.

I always teased daddy about he should have moved mom to the beach instead of coming here to New Orleans.

Typical daddy said, “No, your mom wanted to remain here to be close to grandma so whatever made her happy made me happy.” Daddy was adaptable but Florida held a special place in his heart.

I guess memories are getting to me. She changed. Of course she did. She suffers horribly with Parkinson’s. I get that but it’s too much for one person to do on their own. I couldn’t do it all without burning out.


I believe you. The dust will settle. Just hearing her criticism of me today just hit a nerve. I’ve got to work on that.

I do have to say that I don’t regret for a minute not speaking to my brothers since mom moved. I don’t intend on having a relationship with them. Sometimes there is no healing of a relationship. They were cruel to me. I lost respect for them and any love that I had. It’s gone. When MidKid said that she felt nothing for her brother, I got it!

I know that is what really set me off today. When she said, “I am so sorry that you feel the way that you do about your brother. He is taking very good care of me.” Honestly, I just wanted to puke! Made me sick to my stomach. All I could think of was, where was he when you lived with me. She would be in her room all sad because my brothers never visited her unless it was for a meal or money.

When I stopped doing holiday meals she never saw them! If they were in our area visiting a friend of theirs or eating nearby they would stop in for about 15 minutes.

Thanks for listening to me today,
everyone. It means a lot.

"Too bad you didn't say that sort of stuff to my brothers when you lived here, mom. Did you ever once stick up for me? The one who housed and cared for you for 15 years?"

Beware of being too forgiving, NHWM. You are entirely too nice, like your dad, I suspect. Your mom is manipulative and self-serving.


Oh, I told her constantly about not standing up for me. Her crazy answer! Truly, it was insane. She said, “Your brothers love you.” Tell me that isn’t nuts. I would lose it whenever she said that. Honestly, I would blow a rod when she made that comment.

My dad was a sweetheart. But he would get upset about her shenanigans too. My brothers crap too.

Before he died, this is so funny. My brother (now deceased) was really working on his nerves and he whispered to me that he wished my brother would leave his hospital room. He sent my brother to go buy him shaving cream that he didn’t even need! He looked tired.

I asked him if he wanted to rest and I would go back the next day. He told me, “No, not you darling. I love you, honey. I told your brother that I needed shaving cream to get him out of here and leave me alone!” Hahaha

I think my brother felt a lot of guilt for the pain that he caused with his drug use that in his own way he was trying to make up for it but he would drive my dad nuts in the hospital. He would blast his television on shows my dad wasn’t interested in watching. Bring him food that he couldn’t eat and try to force him to eat it. He was on a restricted hospital diet. My brother marched to his own beat!

My brother was clueless about certain things. He meant well but he and my dad did not see eye to eye.

My mom was always pushing them together just like she pushed my brothers on me. Doesn’t work. Not with family or anyone else. Not everyone is compatible. Because my mom was very compatible with her brother she thought everyone should be compatible with their brother.

My mom does have a dark side, if you will. Or a ‘mean’ streak at times. Of course, she hides it from others.

My husband’s grandma was like that and my sweet MIL always caught hell from her. My MIL used to say that in front of others, butter would melt in her mouth. She was right! People always told us ‘how sweet’ she was. Privately, she was a witch!

Same with my mom. People think she’s a doll! It’s like they have two sides.

I'm going to stop saying awful things about your mom now. But I have a barrel full if you ever need a fresh supply. She's a sick puppy; please keep your distance.

She is toxic.


Yeah, I have both good and bad memories. Today just hit me hard.

My husband made a good point awhile back. It was right after she moved out. He said that I did more than my share and not everyone has their mom into their 90’s and that we gave up so much of our lives and that she should be understanding of it taking it’s toll instead of expecting everything from us and then criticizing. He is absolutely right.

Like he said, I caught the brunt of it because he was at work. It definitely effects the spouse and children too.

Or the guilt trip, she would say, “It won’t be long until I die.” It killed me every time she said that. It really did. Such a mean thing to say to me.

I realize she was tired of suffering and I felt awful about her suffering but I was suffering too and even though she saw it she still expected me to be able to snap my fingers like magic and be perfect! I constantly had to tell her that I was a human being and not a machine, a very tired human being.

I still remember the first night of being able to sleep soundly because she would not need me in the middle of the night. I had forgotten what it felt like to really get a good night’s sleep and feel rested.

Oh my gosh, lealonnie

I can’t deal with that type of perfectionism. Was your mom like that when you were a kid? My neighbor with severe OCD didn’t have children. Her husband said that she would not have been able to handle messy kids. I’m sure he was right. Something is off if someone is extreme in their behavior.

I am a neat person but I am not extreme. I vote in elections but I don’t preach politics like my brother. I have faith but I don’t tell people how to believe like he does. I don’t care if someone wants to worship a tree in their yard.

Hahaha This is America and they have the right to believe whatever they choose. I believe the most powerful witness is by example not words by a hypocrite like my brother. As long as someone isn’t hurting others I feel it is their business what they believe or not believe.

Thanks, Cali.

I appreciate your kind words and your encouragement and I am glad that you haven’t dealt with anything like I have. I know it could have been worse. There are people who endure more than I have and I don’t know how they survive.

You know, we bear scars from heartbreak but people can and do survive with scars. We can live with our scars even if they aren’t pretty. They are our battle wounds. I don’t want to focus on my wounds but on my survival. Sometimes, I reflect on the pain or certain memories that hurt a lot. I suppose that is normal to do so in a limited amount.

I get afraid I will end up in a very dark place and I try to reach out for support because I will sink into depression. I forget to eat. I know that isn’t healthy but it’s what I do.

I am trying to overcome and deal with things better. I do find a relaxing bath helps me. A long walk helps me destress. Being with my husband and children is a comfort, along with reconnecting with friends. I did reconnect with my cousin too. We hadn’t seen each for so long because I couldn’t get away before. Playing with my daughter’s dog is a joy for me. I miss my dog but I don’t feel like I want the responsibility of another dog right now. This forum is a tremendous help because it’s other people who have dealt with the elderly and ugly siblings.

I haven’t been able to discuss mom much with anyone because I don’t want to break down and cry. I suppose I have trust issues too from all the criticism from my mom and brothers.

So I tend to avoid heavy subjects and save those concerns for my therapist. I do trust him. I suppose because he is real. He doesn’t sugarcoat anything. He keeps me grounded and I need that.

That is the type of person I relate to most. He’s like my husband. He’s very logical in his thinking. I can drift off in a bad direction when I am upset and he calls my attention back to reality. I appreciate that.

I don’t relate to people that don’t necessarily see the entire picture. I feel that he does. I want to hear an objective view, even if I don’t understand it at that moment I do consider what he has to say and learn from it after I am able to process it. I’m trying to move past issues that have held me back. I am a work in progress like everyone else.

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