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Tinks. Why would you help her move?

If she wants out of AL, and if she's still competent, I suppose that's her choice. Make it clear to her that if she does this, she's doing it on her own. As in "I'm not participating in this circus of yours anymore mom. I can't do this anymore mom".
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Oh cm, I did not suggest that tinkster become guardian, and never would. It is much too difficult a role for a family member. Also just because tinkster has done nothing to prevent a move does not mean she will not be blamed, in my experience with a similar personality. Mother's behaviour was as it had been for years only a little crazier to begin with.

Trickster have her ADL's been assessed? Has she been found capable of living alone?
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Agreed, Babalou . This was my response to mother Essentially, move if you like, but I won't help you. She recognized that she could not do it alone and my sister, who encouraged the move to a cheaper place, was not prepared to help despite her talk to the contrary.
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Churchmouse, you nailed it. This is a continuation of a pattern of behavior. A lifelong pattern.

I've made it clear I won't participate. A decision I made in part because I just cannot continue doing so (read my other threads if you're interested), but equally because of her complaint that I am bossy with her. Bossy as in "you should keep your doctor's appointment", "You should let these home care folks come in and do their jobs" and "What are you having for dinner today?" She specifically told me to butt out, and told Good Brother #1 that she didn't want me doing anything for her anymore.

I suspect that now she's got a clearer view of what my facilitation really accomplished, and that she's feeling a bit sheepish. But she is also a stubborn woman, and will resign herself to suffering through Evil Brother #2's efforts, for as long as they last. He can't even take care of himself, much less someone who has serious needs.

golden23, she is incapable of living alone. She needs assistance with most things, hasn't cooked or prepared meals in decades, has bowel and urinary incontinence, cognitive issues, falls a lot, etc. She has had MS for over 50 years. Other than the MS, she is very healthy. No high blood pressure, diabetes, heart issues. She does take a very low dose thyroid medication, but that's it, other than her pain meds.

Which brings up another issue: Brother #2 is also a drug user. That should make the whole pain med issue interesting.

Babalou, no way am I helping her move. Even when I know the answer to a question she has, I tell her who she needs to check with for the answer. Example: Her current ALF recommended a mover to move her from next door to me to their facility. The mover was wonderful and very reasonably priced. Mom asked me who we used, as she wants to use them again. Rather than go dig through the massive mom paperwork files for their contact info, I told her that I got their name from the ALF folks, so she should ask them.

Also, Babalou, I pretty much said exactly what you indicated. That she's doing this on her own, as she wished, and that I'm glad that's how she feels because I'm done participating. Which, by the way, she was told by the three of us who have been doing all the heavy lifting since she came to town: Me, Brother #1 and his daughter (mom's granddaughter, who has elder care experience). We all told her the same thing: After five moves in as many months, we are done. We told her that when she moved to the ALF last January.

Through all of this, I have some critical health issues of my own that I'm dealing with. I've put my own needs on the back burner much longer than I should have. In fact, just a half hour ago I got home from my sleep study titration night. I haven't had a halfway decent night's sleep in over a decade due to sleep apnea, restless leg syndrome and severe COPD. My O2 sats were bottoming out at 64% when I hit REM. I was waking an average of 42 times an hour, and woke up 215 times a night JUST from stopping breathing.

I'm taking the bull by the horns on this thing, as I'm not ready to die.

Between my health, my high-stress job working way too many hours and dealing with my mom, I'm surprised I'm not more depressed than I am. I'm lucky to have a great fiancee (known one another since 1st grade, which was over 50 years ago, and have been great friends all that time), a lovely little home, adorable dogs, a cat, a cockatoo, a small group of great friends. I'm getting married in December :-)
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That's great news, Tinkster! Let us know how things are going with you. I'm so glad that you've been able to maintain and set firm boundaries with your mom.
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Are you really going to be able to stay out of it if you manage her money? I was reading through her list of challenges and wow...she is not going to last long in the mobile home. She will either start a fire or fall or...use your imagination. Will she get caught up in some sort of domestic violence incident with B2 and his wife? You said you will do shopping for her? And she's 45 minutes away? I fear that you will end up going there a lot.

Is B2 going to clean up her incontinence accidents?

Despite your proclamations, I just wonder if you are going to be able to remain as uninvolved as you say now...(but I really hope you can! You deserve the good life that is in your near future!).
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Happy for you Tinkster!
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Happy for you Tinkster - keep those boundary walls THICK and STRONG! You have done your time in the lion's den and it's time to take care of yourself and your own life. You deserve happiness!
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CTTN55 -- She may, indeed, start a fire. I hope she doesn't. Just like I hope Brother #2 doesn't lose his temper with her. Etc. Etc. Etc.

I won't be doing her shopping for her. Since she has been at the ALF, when I go for a visit I ask if she needs anything from the store. It's usually paper towels, crackers, things like that. I will no longer be doing that once she is moved. That will all be on Brother #2. Like my mom said, "He will be SO glad to have a chance to do for me."

We will see how long that lasts. :-)

I pay my mom's bills, keep her banking accounts balanced, and act as liaison with her guy at the investment firm. She has a checkbook and one credit card available to her. As I mentioned earlier, the ONLY good that could possibly come of this move is that she won't be blowing through her money so quickly.

Provided she doesn't start paying off Brother #2's debts or whatever. She and I have talked about the 5 year Medicaid look-back period, and though she seems to "get it" when I'm talking with her, the next time I bring it up, she is surprised about it all over again.
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Tinkster, I wonder what it is she is going to be telling you about next time and saying 'you're not going to like it.'

Is there anything to be done to pre-empt substantial payments to your brother? Could you, I don't know, tell the bank that any check over $xxx has to be held pending verification with you?

You know fine well she is going to do that, don't you. Only it'll be for goods or services or wages or "loans" or whatever.

Can we still be hoping this move won't happen?
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I doubt there is anything I can do to keep her from giving him money. She is very fearful of running OUT of money, plus I have drilled into her the whole 5 year lookback period related to Medicaid. I am hoping that will at least make her think twice. I will check with her bank. I have financial POA. Maybe that will give me some muscle.
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It has been really hard watching her struggle through this process of moving. Beyond the fact that she's never had to arrange for stuff like this before, she is very forgetful and has cognitive issues. But I have stayed out of it.

I'm exhausted, so I'm not going to get into all the details, but suffice to say that she continues to lie (either as a coverup for not remembering something or just to be contrary), and she continues to be mean to me, even when all I've done is ask her ONE QUESTION. I'm tired of crying over her.

She set up a mover for tomorrow morning at 9 am, even though the ALF had told her that her paperwork would be ready MONDAY, as she told them this morning she was moving MONDAY. She couldn't remember what mover she called, and when I told her that she called me today to tell me she found her last moving receipt, that it was for Stevens Moving, and that she had called them to set up the move, that's when she got mad.

She said, "Well that's not who I called. I just told you that. I don't know who is coming tomorrow, but I will just tell them when they get here that I can't move tomorrow." Five minutes later she was saying that she IS going to have them move her out tomorrow, and she will just leave her recliner in place and sleep there until she can take care of her paperwork Monday.

By that point, I had no idea who is moving her or when they are doing it. Apparently, neither did she.

I did ask her why she would tell me she called a particular mover if she hadn't. That's when she really got angry and venomous. It's so sad and weird. I had written it down so that I could remind her if she forgot, and when she DID forget, she was angry at me that I had written it down, because it was a lie.

I just want to hide under the blanket and sleep forever. She is crazymaking.
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((((linkster)))))) If I were you I would just stay out of it, No matter what you say she will be miserable to you. Just give neutral answers and don't engage in any meaningful convo. or don't even answer the phone. This is very hard on you and you need to protect yourself. Likely it will only get worse. As POA you should be able to keep an eye on what is happening in her account(s) and talk t the bank manager about your concerns re your brother. It may be worth consulting a lawyer as to what kind of authority you have to protect her from herself. My mother's lawyer stressed to me that I had a responsibility to step in and take control of finances when I saw her getting into trouble. Thankfully mother recognised when she was in trouble and mailed me all her cheques and so on and told me to take over. Doesn't sound like your mum will do that. If you think things are really going south after she moves, call APS to take a look or the police to do a wellness check. My heart goes out to you. I know how difficult these times are when they are slipping, but are still with it enough to cause a lot of trouble (((((((((hugs))))))))). It is crazymaking.,
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"Just give neutral answers and don't engage in any meaningful convo." --- This is exactly what I've been trying to do. Unfortunately I made the simple mistake of writing down the name of the moving company she said she called. It seemed like a harmless thing to do, you know? I just wanted to be able to remember it to help her if she forgot, which was very likely.

I will say right up front that no matter how angry or frustrated I might be with my mom, if I could see on the Caller ID that she was calling, I know that I couldn't NOT pick it up. I'm sure that's a whole other topic. :-)

Moving forward, I'm going to just take a deep breath and be there to listen, nod and say "Uh huh". I will NOT get embroiled.

I didn't hear from her at all yesterday, so I have no idea if she moved or not. I know she doesn't keep an address book, so for all I know I will never hear from her again. I did have her write my number down the other day and put it in her purse.
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(((((((hugs))))) linkster - it means you are human. When walking on eggshells around someone like your mother or mine, inevitably we slip up because we are human and interacting with people like them is so unnatural. I know what you are talking about. Mother could get set off into a rage over nothing.

Re the phone - please leave not picking it up as an option for yourself sometime in the future. I never thought I could get to the point where I did not pick up phone calls, but I did. As mother became more and more paranoid, her phone calls became more and more abusive and just plain crazy. They upset me a great deal - triggering off PTSD from childhood, and finally I let them go to voice mail. Then she went into a geripsych hospital for a year and was very angry at everyone so didn't call, then into her present facility and is now past using a phone. I had the service disconnected to save money but left the phone there. Never getting another phone call from mother was an answer to prayer for me.

"Don't get embroiled" is great. I deal with the paperwork, personal needs (clothing etc.) and visit a few times a year. It is all I can cope with.

You must have some anxiety thinking about what has happened. Eventually you will find out. Try to concentrate on you in the meanwhile and do things that are good for you rather than wondering about your mother. They tend to occupy much too much space in our heads.

There is good stuff on the internet and detaching, and also resources about walking on egg shells. I have found them helpful. Keep us updated.
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apologies tinster - I wrote linkster. I do need cataract surgery!
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Thanks, golden23 :-) Yeah, I'm trying to keep busy today with pleasant things. I have no idea what has or hasn't happened, and not knowing is pretty stressful for me. But I continue to breathe, and tell myself that whatever is going on, it's due to her choices. I hope nothing awful happens, and that if it does I'm able to continue convincing myself that there was really nothing I could do about it.

Good Brother is off metal detecting today. I'm hanging out with my partner. And no news is good news.
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There really wasn't anything you could do. If my sis had helped my mother move where she wanted to go, she would have gone and not been as well looked after and there would have been nothing I could have done. Sometimes you have to sit back and watch it happen and know there will be a crisis down the line. Your mum seems very determined. I expect you will find out fairly soon what has happened. Keep focussed in yourself and your own life. This time when the dementia is in early stages is very difficult as they aren't considered incompetent so can make their own decisions, no matter how bad. I can only encourage you to look up how to detach and practice it. ((((((hugs)))))
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Any news, Tinkster?

You know, it would be almost funny if it weren't so sad. Imagine yourself as the moving team foreman. If your mother doesn't know whom she's hired (and you'd have thought that pretty basic information, I have to agree), what are the odds that she'll be ready with instructions and things like, oo, I don't know, her new address? If I were that foreman I think I'd be worried that the client was inviting me, effectively, to steal her belongings. She is trouble on legs.

Has crappy brother involved himself in this project at all?
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I can't tell you how much your responses mean to me. This is a lonely path.

Yes, crappy brother is helping mom move to his and his wife's trailer. She plans to move in to the trailer next door to him as soon as it's ready. Probably shortly after the end of the month, if not sooner.

After no news over the weekend, I got a call from my mom yesterday (Monday 9/27) on my brother's cell phone. The signal was horrible and it was hard to hear her, and vice versa. She wanted to let me know she got moved. Monday, I am assuming.

The call was brief -- less than five minutes -- but full of complaints: "They don't have a REAL phone", "I can't stand all the boxes of my stuff sitting around", "There's no space in the room where I'm sleeping" " I don't know WHEN my place will be ready" and "This place is out in the middle of NOWHERE!"

I was shocked to realize that I felt NO compulsion to step in and try to make things better/different. That was kind of empowering. I just told her thank you for letting me know and, I think I said something like "Well, you know it's always a hassle to move and it takes time to adjust".

She is already starting to complain about crappy brother. She always complains about whoever is contributing to her care. This is a real switch for crappy brother: He is used to being the favored child, even with the alcoholism, drug abuse, felony assault/domestic violence issues.

I will say this: I'm truly fearful of what will happen if mom ever acts towards brother and his wife the way she acted towards good brother and me. My brother has a very short fuse and non-existent frustration tolerance.

I'm choosing to try to find the positive in this situation: Mom must feel empowered that she decided what she wanted and did what she had to do to make it happen. She also won't be burning through her money at such an accelerated rate. That was a huge concern for her. And for me personally, I know in my heart and mind that I have done everything possible to help her be safe, happy and healthy, and I've made it known to the CEO of the ALF that I want to be on the record as against this move and why.

Yes, I am worried and I hope nothing bad happens. But frankly, it's more than a little freeing to no longer feel like The One Responsible Person. I've done my best. I wish the best for her.
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My post above should have said she called yesterday, Monday 9/26. Not 9/27.
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I forgot a couple of things:

First, good brother and bad brother haven't spoken for years. There is VERY bad blood between them. There is no way good brother will visit mom while she is staying WITH bad brother, and it's unlikely he will visit her when she moves next door to bad brother. After all he has done to care for her over the years in various situations, I know that he feels like her decision to "align herself" with bad brother is the same to him as though she said, "I choose him over you. I don't want to see you anymore". She knows that he will go nowhere near bad brother.

As for me, I have sporadically tried over the years to reconnect with bad brother. The last time was five years ago when I had him over for Thanksgiving dinner with my partner and me. After that, the drunk calls started up again, and I told him never to call me drunk again, and that if he ever called me while drunk again and said that he was going to drive his car into a phone pole that I would call the police and tell them.

That makes me a super bad person in his book. Mom knows all this, and she knows that I will not come visit her while she is staying with him, and that I will be very reluctant to visit her when she is next door to him. Fearful is more like it.

She was also told by good brother's daughter (who has also done a TON of caregiving for her!) that she won't be taking her son (my mom's great-grandson) to visit her when it's anywhere near bad brother.

Even knowing all of these people in her family won't go near him, she chose to align herself with him. Is it any wonder we ALL feel like she is, in effect, saying "I choose him over all of you, because I know none of you will visit when I'm living with or next door to him."
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It's going to be, er, interesting.

I think this goes back to the Double Dare concept. Only this time - because she has so closely involved the brother with whom, for exceptionally good reasons, none of the other family members wishes to have contact - she has finally found the limit of risk you are all prepared to take, and stepped over it. And then: "Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone..."

I give it a month. It will get cold. She will need things. She will be bored out of her mind. The novelty will wear off for CB, and his wife will get riled. Mother will be on the phone to you regularly, sounding increasingly desperate.

If I were you, I'd be thrashing out Operation Final Rescue to the very last detail; so that when Operation Trailer crashes and burns you will be ready to bail her out and get her to a place of safety on your own terms and with minimal admin. left to do. So that the only real effort then will be not saying "I told you so."
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CM, If mom was capable of getting herself moved without Tinkster lifting a finger this time, I'd say that she's capable of getting herself out of operation trailer if it goes south.

Tinkster, I'd fold up the Wonderwoman cape and put it in the bottom drawer. It sounds as though you're on your way to mastering the art of the "neutral reaponse". Keep it up.
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I agree with the above poster. Time to let mom live with the consequences of her actions. Bailing her out would be a foolish thing to do. It does not give her any incentive NOT to do stupid stuff if she has you to clean up the mess afterwards.
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But the difference is that *this* time mother really has managed to place herself in a situation that poses real risks, as opposed to endless discontent, and will be difficult to remedy in practical terms - no staff on hand to help, no effective means of communication, no access to professional health or personal care services.

So when the balloon goes up: get her out, put her somewhere safe and then walk away.
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Tinkster's mom, if I recall, does not have diminished capacity. She is mentally ill. She is still capable of moving herself and since she presumably does not have dementia, IS capable of learning from her mistakes.

Let her learn from this one; that she has two capable children who wanted to help her and she abused them. She has a mean, abusive child who she's sought to align herself with, whether out of spite, or whatever, I don't think it's important.

Perhaps this experience will teach her that she needs treatment for her illness.
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Yes she is mentally ill, and part of that is quite extreme self-destructiveness (QED). I wouldn't be confident that she'll reflect rationally on her situation and work out how to correct it, or not before it's too late.

I wouldn't either suggest that Tinkster - AND IF BLOODY SPELLCHECK CORRECTS THAT ONE MORE TIME I WON'T BE ANSWERABLE, phew! excuse me! - gets directly involved once more. But I'd still have a plan ready to action when it's needed.
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Didn't tinkster already have her mom in a safe place? So what's to stop her mother from moving herself out once again?

I'm with Babalou...let the mother suffer the consequences of her stupid actions.
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It gets hard shaking it off again and again and again. Sometimes we have to decide to not just shake it off but keep it off. Your mom may have lots in common with bad brother or may be able to put bad brother under her thumb. Or, your mom may just be a drama queen who puts herself into bad situations so that you and good brother rescue her. And that's unfair of your mother to do, and it's part of the fear, obligation, and guilt that difficult and entitled people use to get their way. Are you a rescuer/fixer by nature or is this just with your mother?
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