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You need to see a therapist first and hopefully a joint couple visit. You say you two have 2 small children ( ages ?), so I would guess that would mean you both are young? 20's, 30's, 40's ? You have a marriage with children. Do you love each other anymore? Either you work together to keep that marriage, or you don't. But that must come first in your thinking.

I cannot believe how so many people on this column are so quick to write your marriage off. A marriage between a loving husband and wife with children is something to value greatly. And needs to come FIRST. Please figure this out. Listen to a counselor and see what he / she has to say.

If you do find that you love each other, then consider this. When I was a new bride of 19 married to a wonderful man of 26, his sisters thought it would be a good idea for their dad to come live with us and take care of him. (I was a new nurse, and not yet working.) Are you kidding ??!! I for sure married MY HUSBAND, NOT his father or his family, nor mine for that matter. I wanted my husband and to have our own family. We were newlyweds and wanted to be alone. Luckily, this became a non-issue, as I'm pretty sure he didn't want that either but wouldn't really say so. So I was "the bad guy" and said NO. Soon thereafter, my husband received orders to a base in Germany and we moved and began a wonderful life together. And it was wonderful even through the difficult times. But we had each other and our children. And luckily this is the path we chose as our time was limited. My husband died of cancer when he was only 49, after 5 years of difficult times, and 23 years of marriage.

Maybe this is what your wife wants... a life together with you and your children, travel, new experiences, but together. Your parents can't be very old, what their 60's / 70's? And can get help at home or in assisted living. But your wife and children need you!
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bundleofjoy Dec 2021
dear myownlife :),

nice answer :).

——
some of us are really in tough situations/dilemmas…

spouse vs. helping parents
my life vs. helping parents

ideally one finds a great solution for it all.

i wouldn’t be surprised if God (for those believe in God), were born as a girl on Earth, she would have a tough time too…how to find the right balance…

how much would she work on her own life and hopes/dreams, how much on caring for her parents…caring for the community/world/etc…

no
magic/omniscience/superpowers allowed, that’s too easy.

born as a girl…becomes a woman…and must make decisions like all of us.

fall in love…
:)

——
myownlife, i wanted to say:
i like your name :).
i think i’ll start calling myself that too :).

myownlife
:)

——
1 last thing i wanted to say…

we women, who are often exploited/taken advantage of/sacrificed…

live your life to the fullest.
be kind to others AND yourself.

don’t sacrifice yourself.

there is a greek myth…

atlas.
there was a war between the olympians and titans. the titans lost.

atlas (a titan) was condemned to carry the universe on his shoulders.

one day, hercules came along.

he needed to get golden apples (1 of his required 12 labors). by the way…it was supposed to be 10 labors, but he was tricked into doing 12.
(mission creep, anyone?) (like caregiving, the list increasing without you noticing…)

atlas knew how to get the apples. hercules held the universe on his shoulders, while atlas went to get the apples.

when atlas came back, he was quite tempted not to take back the universe on his shoulders.

(the rule was that anyone who willingly takes the universe on their shoulders, must do so forever, or until someone else willingly takes over).

hercules had willingly taken over.

anyway, poor atlas.

hercules said, “ok i’ll continue taking the universe on my shoulders, but can you take it for a bit, while i straighten out the padding on my shoulders, then i’ll take it back.”

atlas took the universe on his shoulders, but then hercules ran off (and with the apples).

——

let’s be kind to others AND ourselves.

:) :)

myownlife :)
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I haven’t read all the posts, so this may not be new. However, I’ve known two couples who have lived apart for a while, and the marriage did not break.

One is a doctor married to a doctor, both from Indian families. Both are early 30s and are doing final placements to qualify as specialists, one in Darwin and the other as an eye specialist in Adelaide. I’m not sure about children, I think that grandparents are with the husband in Darwin. They miss each other, but have decided it’s worth the separation to finish what is 10 years of training for each of them. The other couple I know, both Aussies in their 50s, the wife went to teach ESL (English as a Second Language) in China for a year, while the husband stayed here in Adelaide. Neither couple was looking at permanent separation or divorce.

My other question is about servants. My guess is that in Thailand, your wife had domestic support with child care and virtually everything else. Without that possibility, I can’t see that she would want to go with the children and without you. Have you considered her USA work load? If she is a major breadwinner and you are also working, is it a fairly unattractive life for her? Is the likelihood of caring for elderly parents just too much? And does she actually like her parents-in -law? Is there any way you can address that first? If you follow other advice to stop the children leaving and she still goes, how will you cope with the workload yourself?

Good luck, and I hope you can sort it out.
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Why exactly do you need to be there for your parents?
You can ditch your wife but do not ditch being with your children.
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Have you asked your DAD what he wants as to his end of life care? He may NOT WANT YOU to be his caregiver for life. He is married? What does his wife say? Before making any decision, tell your wife that the TWO of you need to contact a state or city social worker to get REFERRALS for your dad's choices. Maybe you can go with your dad to various assisted living places on tours and let him choose where he would like to live. Ask your wife to help YOU to help YOUR DAD find a way he WON'T NEED you to be his primary caregiver. Tell her AFTER he is in a place where he can be cared for, you would be happy to go with her wherever she wants to go.
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Time to lawyer up. Separate and file for full custody of your children
or at least prevent her from taking them out of the area.

Normally I'd say your marriage is your priority, but clearly you married the wrong person and it's only a matter of time before this marriage crumbles once and for all. Your marriage certainly isn't her priority.

No one should put their job before their marriage, and that's what your wife has done. Don't let the tables be turned on you as the bad guy here, because she has negated her vows.

I advise you to consult a lawyer without letting her know first. You must get your ducks in a row and know where you stand legally with the children before doing anything else.
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I think it's important to remember that generally we give advice based on our own experiences and try to share what we think. This is a huge one and probably needs advice from professionals. I don't think that we have enough information from your post or could you possibly share that much here.

I believe that if it were me that my young children would come first in all situations. That I know, but the rest is complicated it appears.

I can only imagine how hard this would be to deal with even knowing what you want to do. Sounds like there is hardship in any choice.
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OP, would you be moving back to Thailand if not for your parents' issues? Was there a mutual understanding beforehand that Thailand was where both of you wished to be raising your children? How close do you live to your parents and what is their living situation? How much time are you spending with them?

Is it possible that she's scared, resentful, of the scenario of moving mom/dad in or living so close that it's going to be increasingly them, them, them over an indefinite number of years, perhaps most of your childrens' childhood?

Do YOU want for your children the prospect of their mother leaving the country, after which any child support will be basically on the honor system--while you struggle with raising them alone while perhaps accommodating mom and dad as well?

Is the only other choice going to a foreign country where you will not be able to see the parents at all?

Are you willing to live farther away from them as long as you're still in the state? Or the states? That way, you are around for them, not as much as you'd like, but at least some. That way, you and she might have room to work out the other issues without your parents' issues always extant.
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She's the one with the problem.
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This is a situation which makes me wish both spouses would post their view of the situation. There was a French movie (two movies?) of a couple breaking up. The movies depicted how each individual saw the situation. So different as to be unrecognizable. I would agree that a third party, counselor, lawyer, ?, help them to at least intellectually be aware of the other's point of view. There are two vulnerable and helpless individuals caught up in this-not including the parent. A hasty and selfish decision would be disastrous for everyone. Maybe a little pause to see what happens and what other possibilities may present themself with thought?
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The husband is, by God's Word, the head of his household. Give your wife a few ultimations and Trust God. She has to decide if she wants to move to Thailand and raise 2 small children by herself. Don't even THINK ABOUT GIVING THEM UP!!! She is manipulating you for her selfish reasons. If she goes, tell her she's going ALONE!!
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usjet333 Dec 2021
Agreed, he is the head of the household, however, it sounds like she is the one with the greater earning potential, and this introduces a very complicated dynamic, disturbing the natural gender roles where the man is the provider and protector, and the wife submits to the husband. Since she's making the money, she either refuses to cede the power and authority to the husband, or if she does, severely resents it.

Women are hypergamous by nature. So, women in "hypogamous" situations often view their relationship differently. Statistically, marriages where the woman is making all the money have a very high divorce rate (something like 80%), and high infidelity rate where the man cheats on the woman.

All the marriages I've personally known of friends in such a hypogamous marriage have failed.

Just sayin. Sociologically, that's usually how it works. I don't know if any of this applies to the OP though.
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Ok, this may seem harsh for the crybabies, but ill just throw it out there. The wife doesnt auto get the kids in this day and age, so you can keep them and she can hit the road. If she makes more then you get spousal and child support. If you want to care for your dad in his end of life stage and you can handle it until you cant anymore “do it”. Seek out in home care even if just for a couple hours a week to help ease in care by others, and a little free time for you and the kids. Teach your kids compassion, patience, kindness and love. Its all that really matters in this life.
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when you marry it is said, "you leave your parents and cling to each other" BUT there are times that when parents are old and sickly, a spouse must realize their husband or wife has an duty to the parents. If the spouse truly loved the other they would realize that! Couldn't the wife wait a while, does she have to move right at this moment.
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Sorry to say this but your marriage has already ended a long time ago, you just failed to see it for what it is. Move on with your parents and see a divorce atty ASAP
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You do not have a marriage if your wife is not willing to compromise. There will be other ultimatums until the day arrives when she makes one you just can not do.

You and she will get old some day. What are you teaching your children? And if you suddenly got ill - sounds like she would ditch you to do what she wants..
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I find it strange you said you might not be able to see your kids. Why did you take that threat? Your wife doesn't hold more power than you to steal your children and go back to Thailand bc she wants to.
First thing I would do is find out your rights thru a lawyer without saying anything to anyone. You need to know your legal rights. She certainly doesn't care about your legal rights. Did you marry here or there? Are kids US citizens? A parent cannot just take off with the kids and tell the other parent too bad for you. You want to stay behind, Im going. WRONG WRONG. Why are you tolerating that?
She sounds narcissistic. Seems she can't make up her mind where she wants to live.
I think it is cheaper there.
Perhaps you can put things in place with your parents first. Get poa and end of life decisions in order first. Do you have any family around to help? If things go bad, you will probably have to fly back to see to things.
Maybe you can get them into assisted living now? What do they want?
I know some people get sucked into daily care, but that can be very draining if they have personality disorders, or are difficult people.
I don't know why you don't get a say in your marriage and that her needs trump yours, or she threatens to leave you and says she's taking your kids and you won't get to see them. She has no right to take them or withold them from you. There are laws against that. Why do you not know this?
Marriage takes 2 people. One person doesn't get all their needs met, and the other gets walked on. I can't believe you ate tolerating ultimatum like that.
I'd get a lawyer 1st thing just to know my rights in case you come home and she is gone, and all you did was go check on your parents. She obviously doesn't care to much about her marriage if she is threatening you bc she doesn't get her way.
Why does she get her way, and you get no say? Wow
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peace4all Dec 2021
Helpful advice but harsh to the poster.
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How frequently do you see your parents? How involved in their care are you? How much has your wife had to compensate for your absence in caring for them or actually had to do for them? What about *her* parents? Are you going to move to where they live and spend a decade taking care of them in their old age?

Being the person who has been taking care of my mother for 20 years and seeing the immense sacrifice my husband has made because of it, I would NEVER pick my mother over my husband and children.

You don’t give any details about your parents’ current state of care, whether you have siblings and other salient details which are very germane to this decision. You need to go talk with a therapist and hash it all out there, but the fact that you’re even thinking of choosing your dying father over your marriage and children is mind boggling. If my husband told me we needed to move, I’d make sure my mother had appropriate placement and I’d pack and go.
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Have you considered living apart for the duration and stay married? It's not ideal, but none of us here are in ideal circumstances (it's the nature of the beast). My dad was in the military for 22 years, until I was 16. Twice he went to Vietnam and was gone for a year each time; my mom and two sisters and I managed just fine, although we did miss him, naturally. We do what we have to do and don't wallow in how things are. I hope this doesn't come across as harsh or mean. I hope and pray that you can come to an understanding or agreement about this situation, whatever it is. My therapist asked me once: How would I feel if I were gone when my mom passes? That was helpful for me. This is not an easy situation. My best to you and your family.
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rovana Dec 2021
How would this work when there are young kids?
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Your spouse and children are your #1 responsibility.

My mother is 80 with Parkinson’s and beyond what her children can care for, the best thing you can do for everyone is set them up well before you go.

The truth is your not free to care for your parents, marriage isn’t optional when circumstances change. You’ll need/want that relationship too as you grow older.

Not to mention kids shouldn’t come from a broken home bc their grandparents got old.

They are watching you make life decisions, please go have more wonderful years and delegate senior care to the professionals. If you do it yourself doesn’t make it better if you’re sacrificing your own family.

Good luck on this difficult decision.
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Save your marriage.. My husband and I have been together 11 years. We spent the first 8 constantly taking care of first his mom and stepdad then his dad and stepmom, between being caregivers and working we had no time for each other. Both sets of parents passed 3 years ago and shortly after my husband was diagnosed with Cerebellar Ataxia with Parkinsonism, it progressed quickly so now he is wheelchair bound as the right side of his body is completely useless and his left side is at 50%.

Looking back we realize we should have lived our lives, his parents had had theirs, they had travelled, lived and loved, we never had or will have that again. If he is in a place that takes care of him you have done your job as a son. Zoom him and talk, visit him when you can, but live YOUR life.
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If it were not for your parents' situation, would you be willing or even eager to go abroad?
If the answer is yes, then this is an excruciating decision for you.
Your first priority is your children.
What is best for them?
I think you really need to see a counselor. This is a tough, tough call for you.
If your wife will go with you, that might give you two an opportunity to find a way to save your marriage
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You don't want to "ruin your marriage," but it sounds like your wife is not fully in this partnership. She is being selfish and manipulative. You do not want to lose contact with your children, but separating from a wife with her attitude might be to your benefit.
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Davenport Dec 2021
I tend to agree that their wife's position doesn't indicate much empathy with the poster's situation, and comes off as being somewhat childish. But I don't know her.
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I am surprised you are having this dilemma at all. The idea that you would think about letting go of your marriage and in particular your children, to care for your parents, sounds a bit strange to me.
I would consider taking a good look at your relationship with your wife before deciding anything. Is it possible you have often put your parents first? It is good to look after our parents but how will you feel after they are gone and you have let your children go in the mean time? How will your children feel about that as they grow up learning they did not come first?
You have not said anything much about your relationship with your wife and why she might feel like this but your first step might be to get to the bottom of why she is unhappy and then make decisions on how to compromise.
Good luck.
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Unfortunately, it appears your wife may be using the situation for control. When someone starts with an ultimatum, "choose me or them" rather than compromise, they usually have an intended plan. In the era of COVID, such a move is not a wise decision for your children. Her insecurity (jealousy?) may cause you to make a decision for your parents care that you will regret later, ultimately destroying what already appears a shaky marriage. You have my sympathy.
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What a difficult situation and I can only toss out things to think about. First of all, am I correct that you and your wife come from completely different cultures and thus think very different from one another. If your father has parkinson's, why is he not in a facility being cared for? This would leave you free to be with your family. If possible, can you get caretakers for your parents? If you go to Thailand, would you be able to come back here and see them or would time, money and distance be too great a factor? I know the problems involved with taking care of elderly people and not everyone is able to mentally and physically do this work. Ask yourself where you would be happier - with your parents or your spouse? Second, ask if this marriage has a good foundation and should it be continued. You need a good attorney and a therapist to work with you to help you make some decisions. Good luck.
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You moved before and your wife should be more understanding and should not be giving you an ultimatum.
Is there any chance your parents would be able to make the move with you?

Would Wife do this to her parents too? If so. Look out for when you get old and need help because I would say she wouldn't be there to help when the time comes.

Don't make the Choice because you don't have a Choice, choosing between you parents or your wife and kids aren't a choice.

Tell wife at this time you feel you have to stay here but will move later after your parents pass.

Also tell wife that you Will Not Allow her to take the Children Abroad.

If she feels the need to divorce you, that's her choice but she'll be going abroad Alone.

Prayers
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Isthisrealyreal Dec 2021
Are you kidding me?

His children are his first priority NOT his parents.

You obviously don't have children or a spouse or you wouldn't guilt trip a man to forsake his children for his parents.

Yep, troll looking to start crap and lay guilt trips on people. A moral pigmy.
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Don't let the kids leave the country under any circumstances. It sounds like she wants them out of the US before she files for divorce in a friendlier (to her) jurisdiction. And it does sound like she is orchestrating how best to divorce you.
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Santalynn Dec 2021
I think BikerBob is onto something here quite possibly; consult an attorney just to cover your bases.
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There seem to be many sides to this dilemma.
Your wife may be thinking you should all get on with your lives as your parents have had theirs to a degree. And how many more years will you be tied to them for. Many children already live across the other side of the world from their parents.
I agree with her to an extent but also don't understand how a wife can be so selfish and domineering. It needs serious input from You and her for such a huge decision.
My mum has lived with me for 5 years. I gave up my life for her and am very unhappy. She is 95 and could go on for many more years. I would love to move away but can't, and I would love a normal life again before it's too late for me!!
If your wife won't at least have an adult conversation with you about the pros and cons and take your feelings into account then there may be deeper issues that need addressing. Good luck.
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This isn't all that unusual where one spouse wants to move somewhere, say out of state, and the other feels obligated to their ailing parent(s).

What's a problem here is the "ultimatum" and "we are different people" talk. I.e. your spouse is playing hardball in the negotiation. The talk should really be softer and of a problem-solving nature. So, as other people have written, there are other problems besides whether to move to Thailand or not.

People do get frustrated in marriages because they just don't know how to negotiate properly. The best book I've read on negotiating is Getting to Yes by Robert Fisher and William Ury. See if your wife would be willing to read and study the book with you.

Wikipedia has an article about the book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getting_to_Yes
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I thought some states have a stipulation that in divorce children cannot leave the state of residence without approval of both parents (in a joint custody situation). I know you don’t want to divorce, but my guess is your wife wants to uproot because she does not want to be dealing with your parents.
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My sister was the breadwinner, and she made the decisions. The guy picked up and moved twice for her work. They had a child born 10 years ago, but a divorce happened. Because of the child, she has to basically subsidize him until this child turns 18, which meant moving him again when she got her latest job, as they share joint custody.

Joint custody is seriously a calendar with dates on the week marked out. How's she supposed to do this in Thailand? And if you've been in the househusband/lower income producing spouse role, then she'll have to pay for all that while keeping the kids here.
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