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The mother is just enabling and verbally compensating for the fact that her son is negligent and not contributing to her welfare. So she harrasses her neighbor. She needs to stand up to her son, as Palmtrees writes.

I'm thinking about that dynamic - a noncontributing son, a mother compensating by harrassing others. This is a long time situation and I'm betting that she won't confront her son, for whatever reasons.

Daughterof4, I got a real kick out of your ability to identify people by their feet! I couldn't help picturing you laying on the floor peering underneath the door to check out the feet of someone at the door!
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They are both weird. Just plain weird. The son "reading his bible", please, what an excuse. I am sure he is avoiding his mother but that is not fair to you. She is 84, who knows what is going on with her. I would corner the son and give him an earful. He certainly doesn't seem to be learning much from all of that bible reading. Maybe you should "educate" him a bit.
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Your life and mother is first. Your neighbor's son needs to get off his Bible-reading butt to help and HONOR his mother as the Bible teaches.
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My door does not have a peep hole. It has blinds and if the person is standing a certain way I can see who they are by their feet.. I just will not answer the door until all this blows over.
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*clear*
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GardenArtist, At 57 I can not go anywhere without my glasses! Thanks for your messages. I too have been a victim to stalking twice. Once from an old boyfriend. It went on for over 10 years, until he finally found someone else to stalk. And once from a woman that stalked me for years. I finally wrote her a letter and told her that I do not want her in my life ever. I do not want to ever experience that kind of grief from her or anyone and here I am again getting it from my neighbor. I asked my husband why me and he said it is because I'm overly kind, giving and love to have fun. Tesoro12, I agree, just because someone knocks does not mean I have to answer it. Just today my friend called me to tell me how her neighbor keeps an eye out for her and she appreciates it. I like neighbors keeping a watchful eye on each other. I have a key to my noisy neighbors home and she has keys to my home. I have a chain on my fence in case she wants to use the key. What I really hope and pray will happen is that she backs off and gives me lots of room and stays a watchful neighbor and not a bug in my skin. With so many choices and so many things to do why on earth would someone chase someone that does not want them in their life? If I get just a slight indication that someone is not interested in befriending me, I get the message loud and clear and I know right away that it will not work. It's all about chemistry, if your chemistry works with theirs. .
I believe that my neighbor wants me to take over with her care and I do not have the expertise or' want to' to do it. Bottom line, she just wants free help. I remember when she first moved in and wanted me to wash her windows. I showed her my swollen hands and suggested her son wash them.. I did stand up that time. I just needed to stand up each and every time but really thought she would get the message. A NO I will not clean her windows while her son studies his Bible. Really, how is that my problem? I feel I'm being forced to become an ugly person while around her.. I do not like how I feel and act so I declare this woman toxic and will have to stay clean. The magic word of the day is 'Assisted Living' and it can't come too soon.
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Tesoro makes a good point about the door. Does it have a peephole?
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Dof4, don't know if this will help or not, but when you're working outside, perhaps wear a pair of headphones or a phone headset that make it seem like you are listening to something or someone else. I have had to wear them in the past for different jobs and I found that people tended to leave me alone when I had them on because they didn't if I was listening to something or not. Your neighbor is very persistent, so I don't know if this will help you or not, but it's just an idea.

Oh and about the door...just because someone knocks does not mean that you have to answer it. Who knows what you could be busy doing? If you don't already, I would find a way to see if it's her at the door and if so, to just not answer. The blackout curtains are a great idea. If you don't want to do that, you could just tell her that the lights in that room have a mind of their own and just come on whenever they feel like it. Must be a problem with the switch. ;-)
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I also meant that the history with this woman was that she herself likely has a history of doing this, not that she has a history of it with you.

I don't think behavior like this develops overnight.

It was also my intention to write that it wouldn't surprise me if you're NOT the first person who's experienced this.

I know I need new glasses but didn't realize I was making so many typos!
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Daughterof4, I am so very sorry for that typo! Yes, it is exactly that; despite proofing before I posted I somehow missed it.

I meant to suggest that this neighbor is a stalker, certainly not you.

Thank you for being so graceful about my error!

The more you write the more I feel there are some serious problems with this woman, well beyond old age loneliness. The fact that she knows when your lights go out is unsettling.

As to history and stalking, I've had a few experiences and I agree they are unsettling. One was a very interesting and intelligent women I met in a literature club. We had a lot in common including academic background. After exchanging e-mail and phone numbers, she began contacting me up to 4 times a day by phone and e-mail. If I didn't respond, she would e-mail or call again to find out way.

She even traced down a second phone number which I had not given her and had the audacity to call it. Finally I had to invoke an anti-stalking statute and legally threaten her. Then she backed off.

It wasn't as unsettling as a nextdoor neighbor spying on me, so I fortunately haven't experienced that discomfort. I do know that some of the neighbors spend too much time spying on what's going on other neighbors' yards and calling code enforcement for petty issues.

It's not like someone sitting at her window monitoring your movements, but it's unsettling knowing that these people can't mind their own business and accept that trees are going to grow larger than they might want in their own yards.
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Dof4, I'm getting the impression that you're a hugely warm, approachable person - with the downside that this lady, maybe starving for company and attention, has got sort of addicted to you?!

I asked about the son, because I wondered if there could be any way of shaking him by the scruff of his neck and getting him to wake up to his mother's needs. HE's the one who should be thinking of how to get interest and company into her life. If he were doing that job properly, you'd be on good terms with a slightly too curious old lady, not hiding behind blackout curtains and feeling terrible that you need to give her the heave-ho. (You do need to. She must be driving you potty.)

Well, stuffy isn't very appealing but at least it's not actively hostile. Could you tell him you're concerned about his mother and you would appreciate having a good talk with him about how lonely she seems to be, and how he could perhaps think of ways to help her? If he's a church stalwart, he surely must be aware of any social groups they run even if he's too lofty to participate?
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littletonaway, I have seriously thought about blackout curtains. Many times I have sat in the dark working just so she does not see the room light on. I feel she has stole my peace and privacy in my own home. She has even made remarks to when the light went out and what time I went to bed. It has to be some kind of OCD.
And GardenArtist there is no history with my neighbor. She moved in last fall. And if you have never experienced this you have no idea how hard it is. I mean personally experienced this.
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GardenArtist, Is it a typo 'You may also be a stalker'? I maybe many things but a stalker I am not. I believe her own daughter left town to get some peace and quiet so I'm positive I'm not the first person she has tried to use and abuse.
Countrymouse, I do speak with her son from time to time. He is very conservative, quiet but we have a talking relationship. I'm a bit uncomfortable around him because he is so stuffy.
JessieBelle, I'm sorry you have had this guy calling you. I had an older man that lives around the corner calling and coming over often but it only took a few times of not answering the door and not picking up the phone for him to get the message. He drives by often and always looks for me and if I am outside he stops to chat..I just keep busy and feel grateful that he has found someone or something else to do. I do understand that they are the ones being rude.
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Black out curtains or a liner for windows on "her" side of your home are very inexpensive.
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Dof4, do you ever get to speak to the son?
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daughterof4, thank you for writing this. I am having a similar problem with an 85-yo man who is calling me on the phone. I know he is just bored and looking for company, but the calls are too frequent and interfere with my own life. My main work time is during the evening, which is when he calls. It's almost impossible to get off the phone with him without being rude. I don't know what I would do if he were a neighbor. Shiver at the thought. I sympathize so much with you. I see his name on my mobile when he calls and don't answer. He leaves a message. Then he gets offended and hurt that I didn't call him back. His own children don't pay much attention to him, I believe, so he's lonely. But I can't be his entertainment committee. I know so much how you feel, daughter. It is like being stalked.

It sounds like you need to go on respite from your neighbor. It is sad that the only thing we can do is be firm about our own needs. We get put in the position of being the bad guy. It makes me feel bad, like I'm being rude. But really, they are the ones being rude.
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Daughter, you may also be a stalker. There's probably a lot of history with this woman and it wouldn't surprise me if you're the first person to whom she's attached herself.
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Thank you all for your input. I felt better last night when I went to bed. Shakingdustoff, You made a good point about tolerating her behavior just because of her age. I would not tolerate this kind of behavior from anyone at any age, I have cut this woman way too much slack, her constant obsessing over where I am and what I am doing maybe a form of OCD on her part. I have turned my phone off and will not answer the door. I have told my neighbor that I'm very busy with my mother's care, even though I do it long distance and I guess she thought since I take care of my mother's business, I need to attend to her every need. You would think she would know that my mother's care takes a huge chunk out of my day and the time I have left I want to spend with my family.
I just pray that my neighbors family realizes that she is really ready for assisted living. I have no idea why elderly people fight this tooth and nail. My mother age 90 can not believe she has fought this for so many years. My mother was ready for assisted living at age 75 but kept fighting it and when she finally did it, at age 87 she said she has felt happier than she has for many years. I know as I age I will not fight this. Meals made, entertainment, trips to the malls etc... Bring it on!
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Your comment that this woman has sucked your soul dry reminded me of a characterization frequently used for that type of person: energy vampire.

Pam makes a very good point, probably better than my "stop it all now" point. If you reclaim your boundaries one by one, it'll be easier on you and you won't feel so bad cutting her off eventually. She might even get the message before then.

In terms of being respectful, she hasn't shown you that courtesy but it speaks well of your character that you're trying to do so. Still, sometimes people don't respond without some strong blunt words and action.

You revealed a lot about your family; from what I know, children of alcoholics sometimes grow up more meek, not knowing where the boundaries are because of the uncertainties of alcoholic behavior. It can be difficult to establish those boundaries as well.

Find your voice with this woman gradually if you have to, but remember it's there.

Good luck, and don't give up.
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pamstegman, the dinners have stopped. Dinners at my home are usually upbeat and fun, my daughter comes over and we laugh hard and talk about our days, when my neighbor is over it is stressful and boring.. I have not invited her over for a while and I'm done with it. I just wish her kids would put her into assisted living where she can be with others and get socialized. She only has two children, a daughter living in another city and the son that lives with her. I just pray that ignoring her will do the trick. I want to ask her son 'How would you feel if my mother called you all day long and stopped over all the time?' Me doing all the stuff for her just makes her son lazier. I have suggested that her son should do it and she say's he is busy studying his Bible, as if I should take the slack since that is so important. I'm done with it and it helps to type it out and it helps to read other opinions on which direction to take. Just because I am compassionate does not make me a door mat. I was raised in an alcoholic family and did not find my voice until I was 37. I now have a voice but scared to use it with this noisy neighbor. Guess part of it is that I'm trying to be respectful of her and keep peace. UGH.
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Stop having her over for dinner, that erased a boundary. Stop taking her to appointments, another boundary. One by one you redraw the boundaries until you put them back where they need to be, where all your other crises would be managed. You have such a big heart, I hope you can do this.
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Thank you gardenartist! I felt relief reading your answer. Because I am sensitive and have felt lonesome at times I have been very compassionate to my neighbor but she has sucked my soul dry to the point I'm spiritually worn out. She tried to do this to my husband and he too struggles with it. I have many friends of different ages that I love dearly and I enjoy having an older person in my life since I can learn so much from them but this woman is so overbearing and invasive. She knows when I wake up because she watches for my light to come on, her bedroom window is next to my office window. .I know something has to be done, I have already told her I can't talk with her on a regular basis but she continues. Ignoring is my next step. I just pray that she finds something else to do besides invade my life and privacy.. This has been awful.
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Step back and analyze the situation. This woman has become manipulative, demanding, invasive and obnoxious. But she's also a lousy mother and an enabler in that she allows her deadbeat son to avoid contributing to her welfare.

Your statement that:
"I work on my computer and she will say 'get off that computer'. She has to know what I do all day and where I go and is upset that I did not check in with her while I was out of town."

...makes my angry that she is so aggressive but that you've not put her in her place. Why would anyone presume to assume such control over someone's else's life?

Ministry and compassion notwithstanding, this woman needs to be told that you don't respond to her and that what you do on a daily basis is your concern, not hers.

Seems to me the son manipulates her into tolerating his being a loaf of laziness and she then manipulates you.

If you're uncomfortable standing up to bullies, tell her nicely that your own responsibilities have become so much that you won't be able to help her any more. PERIOD. If you're uncomfortable telling her this in person, send her a nice little card with pretty flowers but make it clear you're not her employee.

Don't take her phone calls, ignore her when she comes running after you when you're outside.

You might also suggest that with all the time she has on her hands she find some nice charitable work to do. Even at 84 there are things she can do. Finding some could actually keep her busy.

She'll keep doing this as long as she has someone to exploit and can get away with it.

It sounds like you're a caring person so I suspect this will be hard for you, but it has to be done. Good luck.
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pamstegman, First thing I did was fall back on my training. This woman is my neighbor and does not understand boundaries.. I can walk from a crisis because it is usually not near my home.. This is different. She knocked at my door and then pushed her way through the door the other day holding a handful of gifts she bought for me to bring to my mother.. As if the gifts will make up for her being so invasive. Since I went out of town for a week she started calling my daughter and pestering her. This is a sad situation and it breaks my heart but I feel stalked.
I have started ignoring her constant phone calls and I will ignore her knocking on my door.. I have an elderly mom so I treated this with compassion at first but it has really started to get on my nerves. My mother was never this invasive or intrusive in my life. I have had my neighbor over for dinner many times and she has made it a stressful evening. Bottom line is that I don't like her and need to cut free of her without hurting her. It is a stalking.
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Take the advice that my wise neighbor told me, every time that she asks for something tell her "I can't possibly do that."

I think I would tell the son that you are not willing to help, more than a couple of times, a month.
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You fall back on your crisis ministry training, which tells you where to draw the boundaries and how to get them to move on. We pick people up when they are down, but they must learn to walk on their own. To do more is to enable helplessness and not cure it.
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