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To all of you--
Love ( well, as much as you can "love" something like that--the story of the anes. dr who wouldn't do a general.) My DIL has and will refuse patients on whatever concerns she has. She is a terrific doc and has not lost a single patient in 8 years.
I honestly do NOT think it's the meds. I get what everyone is saying. My gut feeling is that she is in the slow process of dying, following the exact same pattern of behaviors that her mother took as she went. Gigi was pretty independent, had a bad fall and broke both wrists. 6 weeks later, she's gone. She was 95 and a vibrant, active woman until that fall. Mother has not had good health, ever that I can remember. She falls and has no memory of how she got from, say the chair to the floor. She weaseled out of one dr's visit, she'll do it again if given half a chance. R did have her checked for a UTI--none found. The dr will check her more thoroughly for med interactions and maybe get a CT scan. As bad as I feel that she is continually falling, I know that sometimes people just go when it's time. I'm not going to strap her into a wheelchair, I can't be there 24/7 she refuses the idea of assisted living, she's got that "panic button"--and she gets checked on constantly at R's house. What else can we do? I have no idea if mom is afraid of falling, sometimes I think she makes it up so the absent sibs will come running with flowers and candy. Don't know. And this week, I don't have to care. I'm in time out (unless she winds up in the hospital, I don't need to even call her or go see her).
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Oddly this could be as simple as having a UTI. Hard to believe but a elderly person that is having episodes in your moms case it could just be that that is the problem. She probably is not having any symptoms of a UTI, which is fairly normal for older people but that makes it more serious. It will mess their heads up, not to mention their medications and they can fall, etc...I experienced this with my mom and after she was in the hospital for 5 days on 2 antibiotics she was the mom I remembered. Not the monster she was acting like. I do not mean that in a bad way at all. That was my mom in a nutshell. Have her checked. Good luck to you and God Bless Big Time.
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The medication thing is still my top suggestion. Two doctors, visiting nurses and the pharmacy and none of them suggested that it was the Toprol that was doing it. It is an unusual side effect they said when I figured it out and confronted her doctor with the information. Dig out the meds and go on line. It took me six months to find my answer. It was not on the black box warning.
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Midkid, is there no possibility of hiring a PT "off-piste", so to speak? It takes our poor elders *ages* to recover fully from breaks, and it sounds as if she really needs regular help to get out of this downward spiral.

I'm a bit surprised about the general anaesthesia, too. When my mother broke her wrist nastily there was pretty much a stand-up punch-up going on behind the cubicle curtain in the ER, then a terribly young anaesthetist appeared, pink and quivering with indignation, and blurted out without preamble "I have to tell you that IN my opinion to give your mother a general anaesthetic would be tantamount to negligence!" He was straight out Charles Dickens. I just gazed at him and said "well I'm not arguing." It transpired that the orthopaedic surgeons didn't fancy trying to set the wrist with mother wide awake - open fracture, delicate sweet little old lady, you could see what they were thinking - and had tried to bully this poor little lad into knocking her out for them. Anyway, bless him, he stuck to his guns, they did a Biers block on her arm, she was a total trouper about the whole ghastly thing, and the surgeon got the wrist debrided, set, pinned, sutured and plastered in one hour and made a beautiful job of it too. So for us a very happy ending - though it still took six more months to get back to nearly normal, mind you.

However. If it had been her hip… She couldn't have had an epidural. They couldn't do a spinal block because she's on Clopidogrel. The choice, I suppose, would be between a general or bed rest for a fortnight until her platelets had got back to normal, neither of them a good bet. I really don't know what they would have advised.

Do you think part of the problem might be that your mother is becoming afraid of falling? In the immediate term that's quite a good thing, because it'll make her cautious, but obviously it's no good at all in the longer term, not for her health nor her confidence and quality of life. Poor lady. It must be depressing and frightening for her, as well as terribly stressful for you.
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Sometimes we need to think about the fillers that the pill manufacturers used to fill, bind and coat the pills.... each manufacturer uses a different mix compared to other manufacturer. There are known side effects from these fillers, etc.

I ran into this during the past 5 years... I noticed if I order pills and they came from XYZ manufacturer I had no issues.... if the pills came from ABC manufacturer I ran into non-user friendly side effects.
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I'm not privy to Mother's drug list, so really other than what R tells me, I;m in the dark. She takes a handful at breakfast and one at bedtime. I don't really know what. Her pharmacists are excellent, tho, as I have filed scrips for her and know they are alert to her interractions.
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Thanks, Sherry Anne. Mom does have HBP, but I don't know what she takes. I think that medication mix-ups have been ruled out a month or so ago when she was checked out by her Geriatric Specialist, some drugs were lowered in dose, some were tossed out of the mix completely. None of the falling really began until after her hip replacement surgery. She was in a rehab center and altho she had many "attempted" falls, there was always someone right there to help her. I know that since this surgery she has really gone downhill. I also know that anesthesia on the very old is a tricky situation. my DIL is an anesthesiologist and she stated she would NEVER accept someone in as bad shape as mother as a patient. She was out of it for sooooo long..then after her rehab and return home, and PT in home stopped, the falling began. AS soon as she wasn't getting in home PT she immediately regressed. I'd love to see her be able to have in home PT, but she doesn't qualify for it as she is too "mobile".
I'm out of the loop for the week unless she has a fall that is serious, I have some personal problems I need to work on, and I'm taking the week to deal with them. Still appreciate the comments and support.
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Sherry1anne your post reinforces something I learned many years ago when I worked in the student pharmacy at the University of Illinois. The pharmacists would get so frustrated with the doctors because they didn't understand medications and the interactions or side effects of medications. So I'm always recommending that seniors who take medications have the whole kit and caboodle reviewed by a good pharmacist - hopefully one educated in geriatric pharmacy. They're the ones who have been educated on medications and their side effects/interactions!
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Oh and my mother would lose bladder and bowel control sometimes in the episodes.
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My mother was plagued by much the same type of episodes. I finally did my own research and found out that the heart/blood pressure meds were causing it. She was taking Toprol . She was also experiencing numbness in her hands. The episodes were triggered when she had her hands in warm water (washing dishes) and when she stood for long periods (washing dishes) She was still working at the time in her hair salon, so shampooing hair and standing up styling were also triggers. I can't tell you how many times she blacked out before I discovered the culprit. Trips to the ER etc. She would go stuperous and slide down or just black out and there was not the sudden loss of consciousness. Check her meds!!!! None of her doctors seemed to have a clue. Not her PCP or her Cardio specialist. Go figgure. I took her to a new cardio specialist who put her on a lower doseage - given at night not in the AM and the problem stopped.
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MidKid58 -It is not "sick" to want attention. Everyone wants someone to pay attention to them, and your mother is no different. Just treat her the way you want to be treated and that is all you can do. Siblings react to terminal illnesses differently and you are just going to have to accept their feelings.
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Thanks to all who took the time to help me...ferris1--YES, I DO want to know what's causing mother's blackouts and falls, that's been my concern all along, not the calls I get or why nobody listens to me...in the end, tho I don't have a great relationship with mother, I don't want her to suffer! I agree, she'd be better off in assisted living, but I alone cannot make that call. My brother E has POA, R has MPOA. They do not communicate much. I also believe she will continue to fall and fall, one of the falls will land her in the hospital, or worse. I think I made it pretty clear that my sibs do NOT want me rocking the boat. MOTHER doesn't want me rocking the boat. I'm exhausted from trying to work within the system (the family) and altho I will continue to visit her from time to time and I will clean for her and run errands if needed, she really wants ME to leave her alone. IF I feel that she truly is being neglected, I will notify APS. At this point, she is lucid enough that the state is not going to intervene. She's not being abused, nor neglected, not by a long shot. She's falling down. R gave me his word he would reschedule the drs apt for this week and not let her weasel her way out of it. I have to let go of these worries b/c it's not helping and it's making me sick (literally). I appreciate your advice & concern, but I am dealing with 4 other adult children who don't see things the way I see them and think she's fine. Other than kidnapping her for a dr visit, I have my hands tied.
Honestly, in some sick, weird way, Mother seems to love the attention she's getting. She's been this way my whole life, why should she suddenly change in her dotage?
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She cannot take care of herself and I highly recommend she be in the care of professionals who can watch her. There is a reason why she is blacking out (a lack of oxygen to the brain) and she will continue to have bruises and I suspect fractures. It is not enough to have a pendant around one's neck, if one cannot push the button. Get Adult Protective Services involved as you do not say who has POA and MPOA over her. You are dealing with an emergency and the sooner you have her evaluated in a hospital setting the better she will be. Don't you want to find out why she is fainting so much? If you do not get her help, you could be held accountable by law. You know she is in trouble and if you do nothing to aide on her behalf, well charges can be brought against you/family. So do the right thing and get her professional medical help. She does not need any antipsychotic drugs or any medication until the doctors find out her physical evaluation. Do it soon!
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Glad to read that you're taking a break and taking yourself off the call list. Also good that you and brother could finally compare notes and realize your mom is pitting you against each other. She's quite the old gal, isn't she? Now that you and your brother know the score, hopefully you can work together to get her some better care after a diagnosis of what's going on to cause the falling.
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Best wishes with the APS call if the next doctor's appointment does not happen, or if it does but everything is lied about. That will take some guts, but your brother's irrational neglect is beyond the pale.

I understand the other point of view that maybe she just wants left alone and she is the one who does not want care, but I see on indication that she understands there could be something wrong that could be treatable and not treating it means she could die sooner, much sooner than she has to, and she still does not want it.
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I'm so glad that you two got to talk and straighten out what is actually going on.!!
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That's very good to read, that you had such a constructive discussion. You know, one of the worst things about the stress he's under (I'm the same) is that it'll shorten his temper and make him unreasonable (not that I'm ever anything except sweet reason itself, of course!) - you get too tired and embattled to think straight. So I'm really glad he's stopped treating you like The Enemy. And good for him that he's planning to delegate. Hope it goes on getting better.
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midkid, Enjoy your time away from the drama. Sounds like things are in much better shape than when you first wrote. I am so thankful that you and your brother could finally start talking, vs yelling!! You will all be in my prayers. God knows who you are, I only need to know you need prayers! God Bless!
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I did talk to my brother yesterday, and he apologized to me--seems like mother is pretty adept at playing each of us against the other--for example-I was AT HER HOME yesterday at 12:40, removing the bed rails. I commented that she seemed pretty dressed up. No answer as to WHY she was dressed up (she always hangs out at her apt in housecoats or PJs, only gets dressed if she's going out) R was home, but I was in and out in 5 minutes and didn't talk to mother, other than to ask how she fell off a kitchen chair--she said she didn't remember. Later that day, I went back to R's to get something he had for me, he informed me that 5 minutes AFTER mother was supposed to be at a dr's appt, (@ 1:20) she came and found him and informed him that they'd missed it. He asked her WHY didn't she ask me to take her (as I was right there!) or why she didn't just come and get him , as he was simply doing some yardwork and could easily have stopped. No answer from her. He did call the dr and re-schedule for next week. R and I discussed this at length, that she hides from each of us what she wants and plays us against each other for maximum sympathy. She KNOWS this appt was to discuss the continual falling and look for possible reasons--(altho she had repeatedly told me she didn't have an appt until April, she knew all along she had one yesterday). We will all make sure she gets checked thoroughly.
And BTW, R has the power to change the calling list from her panic button. My sister, who set it up, and swears she has always been 2nd on the calling list, was not even on it. R put only the people who actually live in his house on the list (4 of 5 of his kids are over 21 and certainly able to care for mother). They can always call 911. R is beginning to wear out, and he is not as in denial about Mother as I thought. So, altho he refuses to entertain the thought of an assisted living facility, he is getting sick of the manipulation. He did tell me to take a couple weeks of respite and jusy not come see her-he was going to call the non-present sibs and give them "assignments" to come see mother, clean her apt or take her to appts. They don't call or come unless something dramatic happens. I will enjoy the break.
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It sounds like she may have sundowners since it occurs at night. Their mood changes and they sleep walk and etc. Please have her checked for sundowners.
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I think I sort of suspect where he might be coming from: the idea of a colonoscopy was mooted (and rejected, in the end) for my mother a while back, and I canvassed opinion from anyone who wanted to voice one. Most were against it, on balance (including me), but it was only my uninvolved brother who reacted with absolute horror to "putting her through that." It sounds as if your brother dreads setting foot anywhere near any path that might lead her to geriatric Bedlam, and has lost all sense of moderation. He's not being rational. What would he do if, God forbid, she cut her head through one of these falls? Patch it up with glue, rather than risk sutures and a scan?

I can't believe your sister has the gall to be angry. No one minds making useful sacrifices, but there has to be a point. What does she suppose is the point of your being rousted out in the middle of the night only to be vetoed by your brother?

I have a card I've been waiting to send someone (if I can think which of my friends won't think I'm getting at her) which quotes Gloria Kaufman thus: "a mother should be neither cocky nor proud because she knows that the school may call at any minute to report that her child has just driven a motorcycle through the gymnasium." Five! I've only got three and I'm still getting over it :)
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I LOVE the British euphemisms!! "Daft as a brush..." Indeed! I'm officially off the call list (not w/o some guilt inducing comments "I can't believe you'd do this") and hubby just called to make sure I did in fact get off it. Sister is angry, but I pretty much never see her anyway.

As to the other commenters: Thanks to you also. I am not going to step out of mother's life, but will greatly reduce the amount of time I spend with her. I do no understand R's denial, nor can I figure out why he will NOT allow me or anyone else to take her to the dr or an ER. Last night he was yelling at me "I will NOT see my mother in some MRSA ridden, urine stained facility in her last days"...I said "Hey, calm down, I am suggesting we have her checked for a UTI and maybe a CT scan to see what's going on. I am NOT saying drag her up the street and drop her at the front door of the nearest nursing home". On my way now to pick up the bed rails and say hi. R will be home, but he sleeps a great deal of the time. Not hoping to interact with him today. I doubt, BTW, he is thinking of an inheritance..there isn't anything to inherit. Our oldest brother (deceased) pretty much sweet talked mother out of most of her liquid savings over the years.....she has a small SS pension and that's it. I can't see that R would want her to die sooner rather than later. I just want what we all want--for her to be happy and independent--but the independent part if gone now. We just need to work together to help her be happy. (CountryMouse--my hair is mostly white now--I raised 5 kids before I had to raise mother)
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I'm glad your husband said that because if he hadn't I was going to. What in heaven's name is the point of calling all four every time? Daft as brushes.

Big hug. What I wish for is that you will soon be able to enjoy spending what time remains to her with your mother, instead of its turning your hair white. Best of luck.
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Again--wow, thanks for being a place I can come to vent!! Yesterday I was so sore (back problems waiting until Jan for back surgery, some days are pretty bad)..Hubby sent me to the spare room after work with an ice bag and a painpill...at 8 pm , I get a "panic call" from mother's lifeline. I did grab the phone & got to actually TALK to a person about mother's lifeline calls & how they were set up (mother was fine, she'd fallen but was up and getting ready for bed with the help of my niece)..the lifeline person told me I was #2 on the call list and whenever the panic button was pushed, whether or not mother is immediately taken care of or not, all 4 of the people on the call list are called. EVERY SINGLE TIME!! This is the 4th time in a week I've been called, the 1st time I actually got to the phone. I called R and told him I'd been called and that I had talked to the lifeline services and said that THEY were concerned because Mother has fallen so many times in the past week--THEY think she needs to be evaluated. R yelled at me and said she was HIS "problem" and it was none of my business, that there was nothing to do for her. I challenged him on this and said "She shouldn't be sitting in her kitchen chair and just FALL OVER! Something is wrong!" After begging with him to allow me to take her to the ER today for a simple evaluation and to check on a possible UTI--he said I could not do that, he wouldn't allow it. Said she is old and that is what old people do-they fall down.
I came upstairs and told my hubby about the call. He blew up. (This is a man you CANNOT get riled up) He said "you get yourself OFF that calling list and step AWAY from your mother's care. It's killing you. If you won't do it, I will do it against your will, for your own good". whoa----so I am doing that. and this am I am retrieving the bedrails and walking away from it all. I will still visit mother, but I cannot fight R, I cannot fight my mother and I cannot fight the 3 other sibs who do not care what is going on.
However, I very likely will call APS and report the situation. Mother is going to die, and sooner rather than later, I know that, but I want to see her have a better quality of care until that happens. Thanks all for the wonderful answers and support--I do feel so very alone in this.
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Usually a living will only kicks in if the person is deemed terminal in 6 mos. Until that time, you are supposed to get medical care for people who need it - withholding care would be neglect at best. Make the call to APS for suspected elder abuse.
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You are insisting that you know more than your mother on how she wants to live her life. No wonder she gets so angry with you. Can you step back and see her point of view. She doesn't want a lot of medical intervention, no Dr visits, no tests. My Dad is the same way. He values automony over safety. I think he is nuts, but I respect his wisdom, and his need to run his life his way. Sometimes you just have to wait till something happens.

My advice step back. Allow your mom the dignity of running her own life. Sometimes are parents are nasty, because that is the only way they can get us to back off. Trust her judgement. You and she can just relax and enjoy each other.
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Midkin, someone needs to sit your brother down and explain to him that finding out what is causing his Mom to faint or black out and fixing it is NOT the same as "artificially lengthen her life".... that's a whole different ballgame, like cardiopulmonary resuscitation [CPR if she had a life threatening illness], or inserting a tube into her throat and connecting to a machine to keep her breathing for weeks on end.
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Well, I'm about to propose the unthinkable - call APS because of her situation, which is an adult in danger because of inability to take steps to protect herself from injury. When they see her all bruised up and brother is next door and doing nothing to help her, plus blocking her from getting timely medical care, you won't have to be the bad guy in this any more. Waiting til April is not OK. She is not safe. She did not say she wanted NO MEDICAL CARE, just not artificial life support. Feel her pulse - if it is irregular, she needs that looked at ASAP. She could very likely be found not competent given a decent geriatric evaluation; her being verbal, recognizing familiar people, and doing whatever self care she does does not mean her judgement or even her orientation to reality is intact. I would guess that she is sundowning and getting her seen later in the day could help them to pick up on deficit areas most easily. To be brutally honest, she probably has a better excuse for her irrationality than your siblings do. And to be more brutal still, and I'm sorry if this is too much or too far over the line, I *hope* that "R" is simply in denial and not expecting to profit from her demise as early as possible, because that's what ignoring this will lead to. Over 6 hours laying on the floor can do great harm, including pressure necrosis of skin and/or muscle (rhabdomyolysis) and along with the inability to get any food or fluid for that period that could be the end of a sad story.

This isn't about bedrails. It's about denial and failure to protect a vulnerable person, whether she is nasty because of depression or misjudgement or because she's been nasty lifelong does not matter as much as the simple facts. She is living alone with an alert button she cannot and does not use, and under those circumstnaces probably should not be. There is no guarantee APS will do the right thing, but you will have done the right thing by making the call. I'm sorry you and hubby are the only rational ones in the family who can see this is no good, it is a heavy burden to shoulder, at the risk of alienating siblings to boot...
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It sounds like a living nightmare for you, I'm so sorry.

Well. You could go over her head. Take pictures, take them to her doctor, outline the living situation and recent history, etc. etc. But to be honest you'd just be covering your you-know-what. Because, whereas one would normally agree that your brother is being an ostrich and the other sibs - well, goodness knows what they're thinking - your brother has an unusually good case for not taking this further. Also, it sounds as if you've no questions about your mother's capacity? So even if you did appeal to higher authorities, if she's competent and she says no… everyone's on a hiding to nothing.

What DOES R say, besides referring to the living will I mean? If she's keeling over for no obvious reason it sounds like a blood pressure issue, wouldn't you think? Is that side of things under control? But rather than some herbert on the internet (i.e. me) guessing, I'm sure you'd rather just get her checked over: and I don't believe R can justify withholding *all* medical treatment on the basis that she doesn't want heroics. It's not the same thing. As you say.

Meanwhile, at least it won't be you with the broken hip. I can't think of anything else very comforting to say, I'm afraid. No teeth grinding! - you'll make your migraine worse. Best of luck, hope you get somewhere.
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Mid, I get your concern and how much you worry about your mom. But as an adult, she made choices. And if that choice was to throw her lot in with your brother then you are not obligated to wrest her from his care.

My mil ignored warnings to stop smoking (she had copd) and when my husband would visit and try to reason with her over this, she would threaten to report him to APS. She chose her youngest to be POA, someone she exerted total control over. So that when she decided to starve herself to death after open heart surgery, he said "fine, okay, this is what mom wants". People who are competent make choices. We don't have to kill ourselves "fixing" these things.
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