The question is will she be able to return to her apartment? If the answer to that is no then you do not have to tell her. How is she cognitively? If she is not cognizant then "therapeutic lies" when she asks "when can I go home" or "where is my-----fill in the blank-----". Hoarding is not "just" collecting a bunch of stuff it is a mental health problem and she should be having sessions with a therapist if she is to return home. Think of it this way she is healing from 2 separate medical conditions.
Hoarding is my own particular bugaboo--meaning, it drives me nuts!
Own as much 'stuff' as you want, but keep it organized and clean. Ah ha--that's the difference between a 'collection' and a 'hoard'.
Oh, and once there's mice or rats or bugs--it's a dirty hoard and that's NOT ok in my book.
I've 'helped' enough people with their hoards that I know that it is basically impossible to change. You can clean, sort, dust, vaccum and sort for days and I guarantee in a month you won't know anything was ever done. Without the hoarder ACCEPTING help and making CHANGES, it's pointless.
If the BOH has stepped in, that's apretty good clue that this hoard is out of control. My experience has that the BOH has really, really low standards for 'proper' livng conditions.
I had a 'friend' who got custody of her 3 grandkids and she had the BOH called numerous times on her. Even with an overflowing cat litter box within a few feet from where she prepared food and piles of dog feces in every corner of the house--she only ever got a warning and they NEVER followed up.
She was exhausted all the time and simply didn't 'see' or 'smell' her home. It went on the market in as 'as is' condition and she couldn't even get people to walk in the door.
She acted like she didn't understand--and she wasn't really even offended by people's gagging at the front door and refusal to even come in the house--
Hoarding is a mental disorder, and by not dealing with THAT, then any cleanup is pointless.
IDK how you're going to approach your relative. I guess the truth is the first thing to consider--and getting her some mental health help might be helpful. (Hoarders have a really different mindset, for sure).
Wishing you luck. I have helped many a hoarder and not one has maintained the more organized way of living.
You say "The Board of Health visited your apartment and found it hoarded. They condemned it and demanded a clean out. They have evicted you". Sorry but I don't know what your acronym BI means. Looked up I can only come up with bisexual and I doubt that's what you mean.
The real question is who is POA, is your relative incompetent in her own care, a danger to self and others with this hoarding, and what are plans ongoing for permanent care placement? Because honestly it is a great relief that this situation has been "taken care of" for the family. Hopefully there wasn't cash hidden all over this hoard, as that's quite common.
As she is in care there will be social worker access, I am hoping. Tell your relative with them present if you are indeed in charge of notifying her.
BOTH my parents were hoarders, my father being the worst. Just saved and could not let go of anything. He even caused a mouse infestation at their Independent Living apartment. They each had their own separate room at ALF. When my mom passed, the ALF still charged $150 per day until her room was completely emptied out (which I learned after the fact) and it took me 6 days by myself. There were so many boxes of old paperwork and photos, I had to take them to my house to sort. It took me months to go through every piece of paper to see if it was important or could be shredded. She had saved every statement, invoice, etc. in their ORIGINAL ENVELOPES, 20 years worth! Good thing I went through it all; I did find a couple envelopes with cash as well as 2 life insurance policies I knew nothing about. 17 months later, I went through the same mess with my father's room. He passed on a Saturday evening and hubby and I went there the next day and did a kamikaze style clean out. ALF was on pandemic lockdown but they let us in if we wore masks. We threw everything that could be important into boxes and filled the car. Everything else was junk, old, broken, or worn. His clothes weren't even donatable. We filled up their entire dumpster to overflowing! Had to hire a couple people to move the furniture out, so we still got charged for 3 days. Between the 2 rooms, I ended up taking 60 pounds of paperwork to bulk shredding. When will people learn that their heirs do not want their useless stuff?
I had older relatives that tried to dump a set of very old encyclopedias on me.
When I saw them walking towards my home with boxes of outdated books, I immediately stated that they were of no use to me or anyone else.
I was shocked when they were offended by my comment.
They thought the outdated encyclopedias were perfectly good and that my children would use them. I told them my children used the internet for their school work!
Some people ask me why am I getting rid of something that they feel is perfectly good. I say to them because I hate clutter and no longer want it. I donate items to thrift shops and people who want them can buy them.
My mother lost everything, her home that she lived in for over 50 years, plus all of her possessions in hurricane Katrina.
Shortly after she moved in with us, I took her to Mass. We arrived early and everyone was outside of church chatting about the devastating storm that blew through our city.
The storm was bad enough, but our levees breaking on top of that caused my mother to have nine feet of water in her home. Her home could not be repaired. It was demolished.
Mom was devastated and it broke my heart to see her this way. I was devastated as well, this was my childhood home that held many memories for me. I would never again see our childhood photos, graduation photos or wedding photos on my mom’s walls ever again.
I was telling a woman before Mass how I felt and I will never forget her response. She said, “Honey, your mom is alive. You were able to get to your mom and evacuate. So many people died in this storm.”
Then this wise woman said to me, “Years ago I had an awful fire. My house burned to the ground. I lost everything just like your mom has. I was sad. I grieved like your mom is doing. Then I realized, it’s just things. I am grateful that I didn’t burn up like my house did. Your mom will be okay, just like I am.”
After speaking with this woman. I gained a whole new perspective and it completely changed my outlook on material possessions.
In fact I don’t even like that people refer to the people of New Orleans as survivors. We are strong people who chose to rebuild our lives. I prefer to look at it as reclaiming our lives.
In devastating times, we grieve for our losses, but it’s also an opportunity to reclaim our lives and move on.
“So sorry! BI stands for brain injury… hers was due to a brain aneurism, so there is some damage to the brain, cognitive issues, short term memory, some confusion too.”
For some people who have a brain aneurysm, apart from what you mentioned, they can also suffer a stroke. I have had a brain aneurysm, but thank God I have not suffered any residual from my aneurysm.
The condition of "hoarding" exists on a continuum, doesn't it? (e.g., "hoarder" versus "extreme hoarder" as in reality television)
Normally I would assume that the the Board of Health sets the bar high for hoarding. But recently I've had to deal with medical personnel and government workers empowered to bring enormous subjectivity to their roles.
I like to save stuff that I might use again (happens all of the time, and I'm always so glad to have kept the thing). Fabric scraps, containers, etc. Especially if I know Goodwill would just toss it in the dumpster. I'd hate to have some Marie Kondo zealot violating my home.
Anyway, clearly OP's relative's apartment was a genuine problem. So I guess this note is just a plea to show some compassion for people declining to participate in throw-away culture, even if they ultimately go too far and lose their grasp on reason.
Congrats to OP for proceeding with caution and gentleness.
The earth is becoming a giant garbage heap. Our junk is now even orbiting the earth. We're all grotesquely complicit in this outcome.
I'm going to be unpopular here--but knowing that this hoarding was taking place in an apartment building makes a LOT of difference.
We managed apartments when we were in college and newlyweds. Our landlord insisted that we be at full capacity at all times. We had a person come to fill out am application. I got very bad vibes off her. I told the landlord she seemed to have a lot of problems and I didn't want her problems to be mine.
He insisted that we rent to her--and we did.
Within a month, the whole apartment complex was ridden with cockroaches (which, to my knowledge, 45 years later, they are STILL dealing with!) Plus the tenant was a prostitute and was bringing home clients 2-3 times a night. We lived directly downstairs from her. Let your mind run wild on that.
She was evicted, but it took months to get her out and yes, the BOH got involved. They did remove a lot of her garbage as she was able to totally hoard out the place in a couple months.
Apartment dwellers have rules that are much stricter than, say, a single homeowner. She signed the contract stating she'd obey all the rules & bylaws. She didn't, so she was evicted.
I have no sympathy for the person in this post whose stuff was removed by the BOH. These days, with meth labs being everywhere--most landlords I know are extremely strict about their renters. To live with a lot of other people in the same building--you have rights, but not the right to make other people's homes uninhabitable.
No doubt your relative had MANY MANY warnings. The BOH doesn't have time or resources to spend looking for trouble. If they've stepped in, then there's trouble that wasn't settled without the long arm of the law.
Sorry if this offends. I can still remember the roaches coming down through the heat vents of OUR apartment. I had a 3 month old baby at that time. Do you think I felt sorry for this woman b/c she got evicted?? We eventually moved, ourselves, the problem was so bad. Finding a roach on my baby about put me in the grave.
That was an entirely different situation. This 66 year old woman was NOT a prostitute. There was absolutely no indication that she was ever a problem.
It was after she had a stroke that they had her things removed to make room for a new renter! She never had a chance to even pick anything up since she was in recovery. If you ever land in the hospital and everything you own is taken away ...you might not agree that was the right thing to do!
If she has dementia, you may not have to tell her at all. Or if you do, she soon may forget it. Perhaps someone else could tell her, such as the social worker or another relative. If you're going to be her primary caregiver, you might not want to make her angry with you.
Caution: don't take her into your home. Hoarders have a mental illness. It's a lot to deal with, and you should insist that you're not qualified to deal with her. These situations tend to stretch into weeks, months, years, and eons, and once she's in, you'd have a hard time getting her out.
She certainly needs a lot of help, but it doesn't have to come from you.
It seems that someone from the apartment reported the hoarding to the Board of Health in your county/state. There’s nothing you can do about this except to tell your LO the truth that the BOH came in and deemed the apartment as a hazard.
If the answer to that is no then you do not have to tell her.
How is she cognitively? If she is not cognizant then "therapeutic lies" when she asks "when can I go home" or "where is my-----fill in the blank-----".
Hoarding is not "just" collecting a bunch of stuff it is a mental health problem and she should be having sessions with a therapist if she is to return home.
Think of it this way she is healing from 2 separate medical conditions.
Own as much 'stuff' as you want, but keep it organized and clean. Ah ha--that's the difference between a 'collection' and a 'hoard'.
Oh, and once there's mice or rats or bugs--it's a dirty hoard and that's NOT ok in my book.
I've 'helped' enough people with their hoards that I know that it is basically impossible to change. You can clean, sort, dust, vaccum and sort for days and I guarantee in a month you won't know anything was ever done. Without the hoarder ACCEPTING help and making CHANGES, it's pointless.
If the BOH has stepped in, that's apretty good clue that this hoard is out of control. My experience has that the BOH has really, really low standards for 'proper' livng conditions.
I had a 'friend' who got custody of her 3 grandkids and she had the BOH called numerous times on her. Even with an overflowing cat litter box within a few feet from where she prepared food and piles of dog feces in every corner of the house--she only ever got a warning and they NEVER followed up.
She was exhausted all the time and simply didn't 'see' or 'smell' her home. It went on the market in as 'as is' condition and she couldn't even get people to walk in the door.
She acted like she didn't understand--and she wasn't really even offended by people's gagging at the front door and refusal to even come in the house--
Hoarding is a mental disorder, and by not dealing with THAT, then any cleanup is pointless.
IDK how you're going to approach your relative. I guess the truth is the first thing to consider--and getting her some mental health help might be helpful. (Hoarders have a really different mindset, for sure).
Wishing you luck. I have helped many a hoarder and not one has maintained the more organized way of living.
Sorry but I don't know what your acronym BI means. Looked up I can only come up with bisexual and I doubt that's what you mean.
The real question is who is POA, is your relative incompetent in her own care, a danger to self and others with this hoarding, and what are plans ongoing for permanent care placement? Because honestly it is a great relief that this situation has been "taken care of" for the family. Hopefully there wasn't cash hidden all over this hoard, as that's quite common.
As she is in care there will be social worker access, I am hoping. Tell your relative with them present if you are indeed in charge of notifying her.
They each had their own separate room at ALF. When my mom passed, the ALF still charged $150 per day until her room was completely emptied out (which I learned after the fact) and it took me 6 days by myself. There were so many boxes of old paperwork and photos, I had to take them to my house to sort. It took me months to go through every piece of paper to see if it was important or could be shredded. She had saved every statement, invoice, etc. in their ORIGINAL ENVELOPES, 20 years worth! Good thing I went through it all; I did find a couple envelopes with cash as well as 2 life insurance policies I knew nothing about.
17 months later, I went through the same mess with my father's room. He passed on a Saturday evening and hubby and I went there the next day and did a kamikaze style clean out. ALF was on pandemic lockdown but they let us in if we wore masks. We threw everything that could be important into boxes and filled the car. Everything else was junk, old, broken, or worn. His clothes weren't even donatable. We filled up their entire dumpster to overflowing! Had to hire a couple people to move the furniture out, so we still got charged for 3 days.
Between the 2 rooms, I ended up taking 60 pounds of paperwork to bulk shredding.
When will people learn that their heirs do not want their useless stuff?
I had older relatives that tried to dump a set of very old encyclopedias on me.
When I saw them walking towards my home with boxes of outdated books, I immediately stated that they were of no use to me or anyone else.
I was shocked when they were offended by my comment.
They thought the outdated encyclopedias were perfectly good and that my children would use them. I told them my children used the internet for their school work!
Some people ask me why am I getting rid of something that they feel is perfectly good. I say to them because I hate clutter and no longer want it. I donate items to thrift shops and people who want them can buy them.
Shortly after she moved in with us, I took her to Mass. We arrived early and everyone was outside of church chatting about the devastating storm that blew through our city.
The storm was bad enough, but our levees breaking on top of that caused my mother to have nine feet of water in her home. Her home could not be repaired. It was demolished.
Mom was devastated and it broke my heart to see her this way. I was devastated as well, this was my childhood home that held many memories for me. I would never again see our childhood photos, graduation photos or wedding photos on my mom’s walls ever again.
I was telling a woman before Mass how I felt and I will never forget her response. She said, “Honey, your mom is alive. You were able to get to your mom and evacuate. So many people died in this storm.”
Then this wise woman said to me, “Years ago I had an awful fire. My house burned to the ground. I lost everything just like your mom has. I was sad. I grieved like your mom is doing. Then I realized, it’s just things. I am grateful that I didn’t burn up like my house did. Your mom will be okay, just like I am.”
After speaking with this woman. I gained a whole new perspective and it completely changed my outlook on material possessions.
In fact I don’t even like that people refer to the people of New Orleans as survivors. We are strong people who chose to rebuild our lives. I prefer to look at it as reclaiming our lives.
In devastating times, we grieve for our losses, but it’s also an opportunity to reclaim our lives and move on.
“So sorry! BI stands for brain injury… hers was due to a brain aneurism, so there is some damage to the brain, cognitive issues, short term memory, some confusion too.”
Normally I would assume that the the Board of Health sets the bar high for hoarding. But recently I've had to deal with medical personnel and government workers empowered to bring enormous subjectivity to their roles.
I like to save stuff that I might use again (happens all of the time, and I'm always so glad to have kept the thing). Fabric scraps, containers, etc. Especially if I know Goodwill would just toss it in the dumpster. I'd hate to have some Marie Kondo zealot violating my home.
Anyway, clearly OP's relative's apartment was a genuine problem. So I guess this note is just a plea to show some compassion for people declining to participate in throw-away culture, even if they ultimately go too far and lose their grasp on reason.
Congrats to OP for proceeding with caution and gentleness.
The earth is becoming a giant garbage heap. Our junk is now even orbiting the earth. We're all grotesquely complicit in this outcome.
Ho ho ho ho ho!
I agree on this!
We managed apartments when we were in college and newlyweds. Our landlord insisted that we be at full capacity at all times. We had a person come to fill out am application. I got very bad vibes off her. I told the landlord she seemed to have a lot of problems and I didn't want her problems to be mine.
He insisted that we rent to her--and we did.
Within a month, the whole apartment complex was ridden with cockroaches (which, to my knowledge, 45 years later, they are STILL dealing with!) Plus the tenant was a prostitute and was bringing home clients 2-3 times a night. We lived directly downstairs from her. Let your mind run wild on that.
She was evicted, but it took months to get her out and yes, the BOH got involved. They did remove a lot of her garbage as she was able to totally hoard out the place in a couple months.
Apartment dwellers have rules that are much stricter than, say, a single homeowner. She signed the contract stating she'd obey all the rules & bylaws. She didn't, so she was evicted.
I have no sympathy for the person in this post whose stuff was removed by the BOH. These days, with meth labs being everywhere--most landlords I know are extremely strict about their renters. To live with a lot of other people in the same building--you have rights, but not the right to make other people's homes uninhabitable.
No doubt your relative had MANY MANY warnings. The BOH doesn't have time or resources to spend looking for trouble. If they've stepped in, then there's trouble that wasn't settled without the long arm of the law.
Sorry if this offends. I can still remember the roaches coming down through the heat vents of OUR apartment. I had a 3 month old baby at that time. Do you think I felt sorry for this woman b/c she got evicted?? We eventually moved, ourselves, the problem was so bad. Finding a roach on my baby about put me in the grave.
It was after she had a stroke that they had her things removed to make room for a new renter! She never had a chance to even pick anything up since she was in recovery. If you ever land in the hospital and everything you own is taken away ...you might not agree that was the right thing to do!
Caution: don't take her into your home. Hoarders have a mental illness. It's a lot to deal with, and you should insist that you're not qualified to deal with her. These situations tend to stretch into weeks, months, years, and eons, and once she's in, you'd have a hard time getting her out.
She certainly needs a lot of help, but it doesn't have to come from you.
Good luck with this situation.
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