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My father in law recently had a stroke. Happened one month after I married his daughter. He has no income or savings, the medical bills are enormous, and unfortunately none of his immediate family cares much about him. He has three other children besides my wife, and only one has come to visit since the stroke, and that was only for a couple of days. My wife and myself had moved all of his belongings out of his apartment (into our garage), & received little to no help from any other family members. He has a sister that lives about 6 hours away, she wants nothing to do with him, wishes he was dead. He is also technically married, but doesn't live with his "wife", and she moved 8 hours away right after his stroke (said it had nothing to do with the relocation) We have 4 children, ranging from 2 years old to 15, so our lives are very busy to say the least, especially with the care of our 2 year old (no daycare). My wife and I both work full time, she is a nurse and I am self employed (graphic designer). The dad is currently at a local nursing home, but will be discharged soon, and as you guessed it, has no place to go. Like I mentioned before, he has no savings, and no one to help out. So, my wife being a natural care giver wants to move her father in with us, but I think he would get better care at the nursing home, plus we just don't have the money to pay for home health care as someone would have to come by 3 or 4 days a week when my wife is working. I believe his oldest sibling agreed that they could take him in, but my wife talked him out of it, saying that she can't trust anyone to take proper care of him. She feels that his condition will improve in the next year or two, but myself and others have not seen any improvement in the last 5 months, it's actually gotten worse as the rehab stopped a couple months ago. He has lost all control of his left side, can basically only talk, can't eat, he has an NG tube in for nutrition. This situation has caused an incredible amount of stress and fighting over the past several months, and it's been an emotional roller coaster. My wife gets depressed if I make any other suggestion besides moving him into our house, and I feel like it's going to eventually ruin our new marriage and cause a divorce. To make matters more interesting, we have just purchased a new home that we are renovating, and it's dug into our own finances, limited our own budgets, plus it takes up an incredible amount of our free time working on the renovation (ie. sweat equity). His medical bills come in the mail, and no one is opening them or making contact with the collectors. He needed to get his Medicaid straightened out, but no one is really taking any action there either. I honestly don't think that my wife would be capable taking care of him at home, and I fear that it would lead to her losing her job and then us losing our house. We live in an area of the US that suffered a major natural catastrophe recently, and half of the nursing homes were destroyed, so what few beds are left are in high demand. That was another reason why I was suggesting that we move him to a bigger city with more options for his care, but my wife doesn't want to hear it. I've researched online, and it's actually pretty difficult to find a scenario similar to the one we are in, so I'm reaching out here for help. I'm a caring person, I love my wife and family, and I want to see my father in law taken care of, but I also don't want his situation to drag our family down. He has burned alot of bridges throughout his life, and has landed himself in this situation of no one caring about him. Thanks in advance for any suggestions on what we can do.

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Who is the EVERYONE who thinks her idea is fantastic? Find out, and ring them. Tell them that this is quite possibly going to break up your marriage. Ring up W’s brothers and tell them the same thing. The line about their involvement “depends on if people move out of their homes to free up space and that’s all up in the air” is ridiculous. They need to know that your W may well end up on her own over this.

You are not making her choose between you and her Dad. You want her to choose between her Dad, and you, all the children, your home and your marriage. If you are sure that she is going to choose her Dad, you don’t have much to lose in taking a hard line. I read through the options I wrote down for you on March 2. Have a look at them again. Perhaps it’s time to move out for a week and concentrate on your work project.

Perhaps you are leaving the negotiations about this up to your wife, feeling like it’s really her business. It’s not, it’s your business, and you need to be a major player in the situation. Don’t wait for the worst to happen. Make a lot of noise right now.
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I take it you have been around and around with this. He may be a nice man, but he is a user and the rest of the family is smart and sees it. Probably a big charmer thats how he scams people.

Saying that, does ur wife have experience with stroke victims. Is she ready to come home from work and deal with another "patient". Giving up time with her 2 yr old to care for her Dad? I would say at this point, let her do what she wants. She will find out who and what he is. She and you will need to set boundries. For FIL to improve, he has to do for himself as much as possible. And u need to set boundries of what ur willing and not willing to do. Maybe set a time, if FIL shows no improvement and his care is impacting the family, he needs to go to a LTC facility. And he needs to be made aware of this too. Man to Man no improvement back to the NH.

Medicaid, your wife needs to find out what the hold up is. Where I live, you have 90 days to get the info needed to get medicaid. Is wife relying on the NH to do their job? Maybe get the Medicaid caseworkers number and call them directly to find out if they have all the info needed. If he is OKd, hopefully any back bills will be paid. If not, will just have to let them go to collection. Do not pay them. Ur not responsible for his debts.

Once on medicaid you can have him evaluated for in home care. Also, Medicare will allow for in home therapy. May be a lag in days since he has been in rehab. But then rehab may send him home with in home therapy.

I am assuming FIL is not SS age or Medicare age? You can apply for SS at 62. Medicare he needs to wait for 65. But if under 62, he may qualify for Social Security Disability. Then he gets SS and Medicaid can be his secondary. On Medicaid, he gets dental and vision too. Plus transportation services.

Goid luck and keep us updated.😊
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FIL can stay on in the NH "Medicaid pending". The NH business office and SW should be helping with the Medicaid application. Your wife and siblings need to gather his financial records so that the application can be completed. Is there a problem with that?

Maybe posit to your wife that you need some time to clear the decks at work and she needs some time to get proper home care and child care in place BEFORE he comes home. Can you do that?

Also, you say his medical bills are enormous. Does he have Medicare?
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Kryptoid, quite frankly, I'm pretty shocked that this issue of caring for aging parents didnt come up BEFORE you married. It was a key talking point between us when my second husband and I got married, along with stuff about our kids and where we would live. Second marriages come with baggage on both sides and it is wise to check out the contents beforehand.

I'm not a big proponent of divorce but in your shoes, I would not subject my children to what us about to happen next.

How is it that dad has no income? No SS? No SSI?

Your and wife's income should not pay for dad's care.
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Wow! I hope it all works out for you and your wife. I think she needs to let his sibling take over. I agree she needs to let go of this "promise" and let dad know it's too much for your family right now. You both have too much on your plates already with four kids and full time jobs. My mom is in memory care and thank goodness planned ahead knowing she wouldn't want to put her kids through a situation like this. If I was retired, that would be different, but like you, I have a full time job and young children. I hope you figure out a different plan than father in law at your home. Sounds like he will be more than you and your family can handle. Hoping for the best outcome for you all. Posters have given great advice. Best wishes!
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Kryptoid, your wife has caring nature but is deep in denial at present - this prevented any action re Medicaid. She needs time to process.

I'm so sorry if I & others have sparked more conflict between you!

From her point if view it looks like her Dad or the family (sort of is..) but you are just trying to open her eyes. The message is you both WILL be caring for her Dad - by arranging the proper care he NEEDS - which at this time is round the clock & too big for one person who already is a working Mother.

Go & give her a hug. Let her know *together* you can work it out. Tell her don't despair, it will be OK in the end.

Ask her what she wants. It's probably not actually to 'do it all' but for Dad to recover & life to return to normal.

If your wife wants to have a cry over her Dad, the stroke, the future it may help 😥

Then schedule a meeting with the Facility Manager/Discharge Planner (whoever is the reponsibile person) at the very first availability this week. Go with your wife & discuss calmly what the options are.

*Buy some time*.
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Soz duplicate
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I agree family meetings & more discussions needed but as discharge is imminent -.plan needed NOW.

1. Stall. Speak to the Manager immediaty & insist the discharge date be extended.

State the truth. Dad will be unsafe in your home. Wife will be leaving children in unsafe situation. You live there. You will not accept him into your home. You do not support this option.

If you get a bully Manager intent on discharge or stating your wife is POA & can decide, then this.

2. Trial of Care. Insist on this. Your wife must prove she can look after him for 48 hours on her own. In the facility NOT IN YOUR HOME. Sleep there (mattress on floor) & do ALL care.

Many potential carers are reduced to sobbing in the corner by this. Harsh yes but denial is replaced by the grieving process. Then when transfer to NH is made - they KNOW in their hearts & brains they couldn't do it.

Your wife being a nurse will probably be excellent at the care. But for her to stay there for 48 hours would require YOU to take on all household & childcare matters. And you will say NO. This must be pointed out to the Manager. She CANNOT provide the care in two places at once.

If your wife says she would stay in the facility for 48 hours for a trial of care (abandoning the children) your options are

1. She must find somewhere else to live when she gets out. Take Dad to another location - not our home. It is that serious. She can decide to provide all his care, but not in the home you built together.

2. I sorry, I can't actually find another option.. I would not subject the children to the stress & arguing that the Dad in your home would bring.
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kryptoid Mar 2020
So I talked to my wife tonight and it basically sounds like not enough was done to get her dad on Medicaid so he could stay at the nursing home. I got pretty upset with her as she has known about this discharge for at least 60 days. I feel like she purposely didn’t pursue the Medicaid so that he would get discharged into her care. Because now I’m hearing that there is no other option, too late, etc etc. I don’t know how everything is going to unfold, but she still feels that we will be able to take care of him. She wants to find a “sitter” who will watch both our 2 year old and her dad, right now we have a family friend that watches our son and she has made it clear to me that she can’t take care of her dad. I explained to her that there is no way we will be able to afford a home health nurse or sitter, but she thinks we can, and I know we can’t. I appreciate everyone’s responses and advice, it’s really helped me out hearing from you all. I’m not going to give up, but I’m actually more concerned with my wife’s rationality than her dad right now. She told me that she had this deal with her dad, and that she can’t be with someone who doesn’t want to care for our parents. I mentioned to her that myself and the kids should come first, and she just says that she can’t believe that I’m making her choose between me and her dad. I don’t know if she will go to counseling, I don’t think she will listen to anyone right now. Oh, and she’s claiming that EVERYONE that she has talked to about her idea thinks that it’s fantastic. I told her that she probably didn’t give them all the facts. At this point, I don’t know what else to do, it looks like my wife is willing to throw everything away in order to care for her dad. I have a big project to start Monday for my work, but if I’m on this emotional roller coaster, I’ll have to cancel as I need to be at 100%. So much going on, I’m praying it works out. 🙏
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You can see the big picture.
You are using common sense: it does seem NH IS the only viable option.

Your wife cannot see the big picture. She wants to help him. This feeling is overriding all rational discussions.

She may be in the FOG (fear obligation guilt) from long ago family dynamics. She may consider councelling to deal with that later on but you need a plan NOW before this wreaks more havick your immediate family.
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So here's the update, in a nutshell, not good. Her Dad gets discharged from his nursing home very soon, within a couple days. Nothing has been done to get him some Medicaid. I haven't been given an answer as to "why" the nursing home is discharging him. I overheard a phone call where my wife's brothers think it's best that we take him in , but it will only be temporary, they think, really depends on if people move out of their homes to free up space and thats all up in the air. So, my position stands, there is no way anyone would be able to take care of him except a nursing home. I'm really at a loss of words, and I'm very disappointed in how the whole situation is unfolding. Please pray that it all works out..but I think this whole ordeal is going to cause a major split in my family.
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For some reason your wife is making an emotional decision that she is the only person who can provide her father with proper care. The flip flopping is her logical self realizing there is a problem, but the emotional decision driver then re-asserts itself. I suggest you gather a needs assessment and engage a counselor to discuss your plans highlighting the difficulties managing finances and logistics. Maybe with the counselor's help you and your wife can determine what the emotional decision driver is and reduce its impact. The problem is probably some guilt driven issue in your wife's past relationship with her father. She may feel guilty about not having a closer relationship over the last few years or it may be one big incident. She probably needs to forgive herself and understand she doesn't need to punish herself and her family for past mistakes. No matter how well she cares for his father, she cannot walk back that stroke.
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Moving him in will be a catastrophe waiting to happen. Get him on Medicaid and in a facility. Seems like she may have some daddy issues at play here.
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Second thought - you know how in Alien, the alien pod waits until you bend down and take a kindly interest in it and then springs out and splats itself all over your face and there you are, doomed?

I'm sorry that your FIL has "colonised" your wife in this way, but as this isn't sci-fi she is not doomed.

The key thing is to find out what his options are. She won't consider them so she isn't even looking. But you can. Start speaking to the people at the hospital: make it plain that you too have a major say in whether discharge to your home is a possibility.
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I can only think of a very limited number of options. The first is to get an outside independent assessment of all the guy’s needs and abilities now. Then do the ‘month’ thing, with a second assessment at the end of it. Agree in advance that if the assessment shows no major improvement, he MUST go to a Medicaid facility. In the meantime, part of the deal is that you both apply for a bed and for Medicaid, so that the option is ready at the end of the month if the assessment is not favourable.

The second option is to say bluntly to W right now that you are genuinely afraid this will destroy your marriage, and you want to go together for marriage counselling right now. Say all these issues to the counsellor, and let the counsellor do the talking for you about the options. If you have offered the first ‘month with conditions’, and W won’t accept the conditions, you can tell the counsellor to show that you are being more than reasonable. In particular, point out that this may be about W trying irrationally to get closure on his poor behaviour in the past. Counsellors love that stuff.

Next, ‘kryptoid’ isn’t identified as you. You can say that someone pointed you at this site, and there is already someone with similar issues. Or while she doesn’t know her way around the site, just get up ‘Carer Burnout’ from the ‘Care Topics’ list on the top RHS of the site screen, and get her to look at it.

Last, find an urgent need to be away for a week, leaving her to cope on her own with FIL and the children. It’s not nice, but neither is jeopardising you marriage, and this would be a very quick reality check.

It’s all really hard, but it won’t get any easier!
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Haven't read the answers yet, but first thought: "tell your wife to come and talk to us."
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Sorry, but I have scanned this quickly. Here's a statement of yours that I think gets to the heart of this.

"What is weird is, I didn't think that she had any great relationship with him before he got sick. She has him around a lot more now than before. She is definitely putting him first, and I mentioned that when I married her I wasn't marrying him,"

Sounds like she wants the daddy she never had and likely will never have.

You are write that you didn't marry him when you married her, but it also true that she's not married to him either, yet she's acting as if she is by putting him first.

My suggestion? Get yourself a therapist to help and support you in this journey which sounds like it's going to get rough and you are going to need an objective 3rd person to help you navigate this. Do this for you and for your children. It would be nice if your wife would join you, but don't count on that taking place right now.

Take care of you and the children, but stop trying to change her and let her deal with everything since she sounds like she wants to. When she complains, tell her that's the way she has chosen for this to be. She's going to expect you to give in, but don't.

Sorry if I've missed something, but maybe I have said something helpful? If not, that's ok.
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So many reasons not to even consider having him live with you... many have already been shared.

The one thing that came to mind is this... if she wasn’t really that close to him before - and he doesn’t exactly have people lining up to be there for him - I wonder if he is playing up the “you are the only one I can count on” “I don’t know what I would do without you”, etc. He might be filling a hole he left in her heart from a young age. That is a powerful longing (to be loved be daddy).

Hopefully, she can recognize it (if that is happening). If he wasn’t feeding her soul prior to the stroke, I would take much of what he says with a grain of salt now that he is finding himself in a position to need care.

Just a thought.
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So an example of her behavior tonight is, she finally got home with the 2 year old and 11 year old. Brought home dinner and fed them at 9pm... I usually have them all in bed by 830pm. Now it’s 940 and she’s put cartoons on for the 2 year old and I asked her why isn’t she putting him to bed...all of this late night activity is because she had her dad all day and took him back around 8pm, never feeding the kids at 630. My stepson also has strep throat right now. I had to meet a client at 5pm and then took my oldest daughter out to dinner then was home by 7, only to find her and the other kids gone. I don’t know what else to do.
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AnnReid Feb 2020
No one can juggle fast enough to keep this afloat, and it may take a train wreck to convince her.

Hopefully no one will be badly hurt by the crisis that is certain to erupt. It will be exponentially harder to reshape your household if father is there instead of safe in a good facility.

There’s almost something narcissistic about imposing the undoable on hapless loved ones.
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Taking care of children is hard enough. Bring an elderly parent and others get neglected because the parent needs a lot of attention. She probably doesn't realize how hard this would be. Hard for her, you and the children.
You and her together can ask others about their experience so she can get an idea.
Also both of you talk to a social worker about placement for her dad.
All the best
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Well, it really sounds like your new wife is hell bent on taking care of her father, as evidenced by her picking him up at the SNF every evening, ignoring the fact the staff doesn't appreciate it!!! The man is on a feeding tube, falling, basically 100% unable to function, and she is thinking she can 'fix' this situation, in spite of having WAY way WAY too much on her plate as it is! Who will suffer as a result of this decision, is what you should ask her? She must have a hero complex of some kind going on, thinking she can swoop in and fix an impossible situation! And to what and who's detriment?

Her first responsibility is to her immediate family; you and the children. If she refuses to see it that way, I'm not really sure WHAT you can do here! Perhaps ask her to agree to caring for her father for ONE MONTH and then reassessing the situation to see if it's working out, HONESTLY, or if he truly needs full time care at the SNF on Medicaid.

I feel like she's going to do this one way or another, no matter what you say. So maybe the 1 month trial compromise may be your best and only option. If she's a reasonable and honest woman, she will be dead on her feet after 1 month and ready to wave the white flag. But she'll have TRIED, and in her mind, that's what she will feel good about.

Best of luck!
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kryptoid Feb 2020
Ya, I think one issue is that she thinks he is doing great, she tells people he is doing much better all the time, and when I see him I'm not seeing that. He can't stand on his own, he can eat on his own, can't get to the bathroom on his own, etc etc..and I don't think it's her having a hero complex, but more of a "I can get him back to normal" and "having him around the kids will do wonders for him (and the kids)" And I've thought about giving it a trial run, but I fear that once I let him into our house, it will be much harder to get him out. Plus, we had half of our nursing home destroyed here recently, so getting a bed/room at one right now is almost impossible. I've seen it first hand that she has chosen him over me and the kids, and we work all the time, and now on her days off she picks him up all day long till 9-10pm at night..we live only 5 minutes away from the NH, and I've encouraged her to just stop by and visit him frequently so he doesn't feel alone, but she says "she can't go there" "won't do that" has to "get him out of there"...I really hope she can come to her senses and make a better decision, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.
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Thank you everyone for the helpful replies, I feel like the bad guy when I talk to my wife about what we should do, so hearing other people that agree with me makes me feel better about everything. Ultimately I want to provide the best for our parents as they get older, but I want to do it in a realistic manner. I encouraged my wife right after he got sick that she needs to have a conference call with her other 3 siblings and family to come up with a plan where everyone can be involved and help, and that just hasn't really happened.
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mally1 Feb 2020
It won't happen, either.... none of them want anything to do with him. YOU will be stuck doing more and more when your wife realizes she can't keep up, and your kids will get less and less of her time and attention (and yours), as she tries to. It's a disaster waiting to happen, and probably sooner, rather than later....
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Your job here is actually to provide your wife objectively and factually with information that will help her to realize that the solution she is considering works for none of those involved.

Whatever dynamic exists, or existed between her and her father is causing her to function irrationally in favor of the care of her dad to the exclusion of you and her children.

There are many reasons why it might be her father that would suffer most in this situation, what with toys on the floor, normal childish boisterousness, half done renovation work, new surroundings, sharing sanitary facilities, schedule variations... I’m sure I could come up with several more, and you most certainly should start a list of difficult to solve and totally unsolvable problems yourself.

It sounds from your comments that he is in an ideal situation to be the recipient of a Medicaid bed in a SNF, which is clearly the best thing for him.

Present as much objective information about his choices (really only ONE CHOICE) and yours, and attempt to remain calm and positive about your lives together as YOUR family.

Best of luck to your family, and hopes that your wife will accept reason and common sense and loyalty to husband and children before the complex circumstances confronting a very needy and seriously ill parent.
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kryptoid Feb 2020
Yes, I've tried to sit her down and show logistically & financially that it won't work, especially now that we have taken on a home renovation project that is costing us a lot of money. What is weird is, I didn't think that she had any great relationship with him before he got sick. She has him around alot more now than before. She is definitely putting him first, and I mentioned that when I married her I wasn't marrying him, but she says she would do the same for my parents, and I tell her that they have plans and are going to be financially prepared if an event like that would happen to them. And both my mom and dad have said that they wouldn't put me or my siblings in that sort of situation. He has already fallen a couple times at the nursing home trying to get up, and I fear that she is going to have an accident with him when she picks him up. what's frustrating is she will go pick him up from the nursing home at like 6 or 7 pm, and then take him back after 10pm, and I think it's ticked off the staff there. she says otherwise, but i disagree. I also ask her why we don't see other folks dropping their parents off at that hour, and she says that they don't care about their parents..so you can see what I'm dealing with here... :(
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I would say by no means let this happen. If your father in law has burned so many bridges in life that people want so little to do with him that should be a good indicator of why this would be a disaster just waiting to happen. You know this already.

I don't know how you convince your wife of this but you truly need to think of an alternative solution. I wish you the best.
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kryptoid Feb 2020
Ya, he's not a bad person, but scammed quite a few people financially. I don't know if I will be able to convince her, like I mentioned in another reply, she is sort of flip flopping on any sort of a practical solution and continues to fall back on the idea of taking care of and rehabbing him herself.
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I suggest you find some of the other posts on this forum made by loving, well-meaning family members who dove into caregiving without really knowing what they were signing up for. There are literally thousands under Caregiver Burnout. Her first responsibility is to you (and any kids you may have in the home). I urge her to make an informed, non-emotional decision about her father's care. If he has no income or savings, that's on him and he must live with the consequences of that, not you and your new wife. May she find peace in her heart about this decision.
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kryptoid Feb 2020
That is a great idea, but she is really stubborn, and she is determined to rehab him back to a better condition. I personally don't think she will have the time and energy to do that job, but she does. He was very un-prepared when all of this happened, and I agree that he know needs to live with the consequences. He calls her almost every day begging for her to come and pick him up, and if she is off that day, she goes and does it so he knows he has control of her.
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Amen to both the posters above. This man need to be in a skilled nursing facility. If he cannot afford it, then apply for Medicaid right now. Most NH that accept Medicaid will accept it “Medicaid pending”. Meaning they get paid when the approval comes through....back to the day of admission. Do not delay!

a stroke victim (especially one that cannot swallow safely...tube feeding) has to has 24/7 care. I was caregiver for 2 such individuals....it was the only thing I had time for!!!
your wife is going to call on you more and more to cover the huge burden, this isn’t going work...it isn’t working now.
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kryptoid Feb 2020
Yes, his Medicaid was denied initially, and I know the NH is working on getting him covered, but I don't know what will happen there. My wife is an RN, so when she picks him up she is giving him his nutrition through the NG tube..but I agree, it just won't work when she has to be at work several days a week.
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I would ask her if she is really willing to sacrifice everything for him. Because she will be short changing everyone in the household to take care of him. You both will lose everything because he will require more care then she can provide working full time.

Sometimes we have to put our foot down and say no.

If she really wants to help, tell her to get him on Medicaid so he can stay in a NH.

If he was improving maybe, but his care is beyond what one person can handle, even with someone coming in while she is at work.

You all sound very young, is this stroke a result of poor decisions in life, like drugs and alcohol?
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kryptoid Feb 2020
I've had her say that she will do what I want us to do, but then she jumps back to the idea of doing what she wants, it's been a roller coaster the past month or so. I have put my foot down, and its caused her to become very upset..and I love her dearly so it hurts to think that this is going to cause us to separate. The medicaid was denied initially, and I know the nursing home was trying to help there, BUT she doesn't really communicate with me on the matter. I know it will get down to the discharge date, and then what option do you have? We are fairly young, and her Dad had a mini stroke about a month before the big one hit. He has a known heart issue (afib) and he wasn't taking his medication, which most likely caused the massive stroke to happen.
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I would think that your wife being a nurse, she'd be a little more pragmatic about the situation. How in the world would she be able to work full time and provide around the clock are for a person who needs skilled nursing care? Have you and she discussed it with the facility social worker? It's hard to imagine a home care plan that fits into your schedules. Has your wife really thought this through?

Hopefully, someone will pick up his Medicaid processing issue and get him approved, so he can get into a proper facility.
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kryptoid Feb 2020
I would say the word I would use to describe my wife is "determined" and she is the type that would do everything to prove that she could, even if she couldn't.
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Wow. Is this a blended family, or are all of the kids yours together? A blended family is enough stress, but you both work fulltime, are renovating a house, etc.

Your gut is telling you the right thing -- your FIL should NOT move in with you.
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kryptoid Feb 2020
Yes, I had 2 kids, she had 1 and then we had our youngest. And yes, having 4 kids keeps us busy!
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