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My Dad has been sick for the let year, in and out of facilities. My Mom is pretty sharp, but a nervous wreck. They are 82 and 81, they have a large home and now that Dad is going down hill quickly, he can hardly wok, I don't know what to do. they do not have a POA or any thing.......my brother and i do not get along and i am pretty ignorant on this eldercare stuff, since I figured my folks had taken care of it. My Mom is stubborn and my Dad absolutely refuses to do anything for himself. Mom is getting very tired. If she gets sick, it will be me that has to do something, and I am about out of leave at work. Don't now where to start! HALP!
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Please forgive my spelling, my fingers go too fast for my brain.
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I can understand what you are going thru. This is how it started with my parents two years ago. They too were mid 80s, very stubborn; very secretive and wouldn't discuss their plans/affairs with my brother and I. My father ended up passing away but informed us "your mother is in charge" then proceeded to tell her she had money, etc. and should stay in the house as long as she wanted. Problem is; he died and she was left very lonely as they didn't have close friends, neighbors, or children nearby. At first she rallied and "had a life" and was managing but the last 6 months have been down hill --not health wise, but isolating herself from the few activities and friends she was doing. Now she refuses all help and only wants to do things with me (in other words she is only social and goes out when I come home for visit except for grocery necessities -- no church, no meals with friends, no clubs, cards, no nothing) -- a big burden as I can't meet her needs. I'm coming to grips with this. My brother has visited once in two years and doesn't really want to come back for a visit as she refuses any suggestions for "living life". I just got off the phone with her and she says she's in a bad mood. I rambled long enough. Bottom line from talking with many of my friends in similar boats -- we have to let go. Unless the parent is in imminent danger or living in squalor -- there is nothing you can do to force them anywhere. I have to remind myself its not my life and I can't force my mother to live how I want her to. If she wants to remain sad and depressed; I have to honor that as long as I know I've done everything possible to help her...and I have taken her to doctor's -but they only want to prescribe drugs and get rid of the patient. Unless that patient has someone close by to monitor them and continue to give feedback to doctor and willing to change prescriptions, haul them to therapy, etc. etc. its futile. WHen you are far away, you can't possibly do this and leaving them on drugs is almost worse if you can't monitor and they aren't healthy enough or willing to question the doctor about how they are feeling.
POA -- my mom finally admitted she had one and showed me; but you can't do anything with that unless they are incapacitated and can't make their own decisions -- that is decided by doctors, judge, psychologists, etc -- NOT YOU so you are still at their mercy. It took several years of discussion and then several months once my father passed to get my mother to get a POA and also go to the banks and get a POD (payable on death) so you can access their bank accounts when the last parent dies and take care of bills, funeral expenses, etc. while the estate is settled.
My mother wouldn't even tell me the attorney where she had the will. We had to get tough and I told her if she wouldn't reveal; I wasn't wasting time trying to call every attorney in her town to figure out who had the will and if she wanted it this way, then I would walk away and let everything go to the state and her wishes would not be carried out. That got her attention and at least now I have the name and number for the attorney.
Our parents are mean, they just don't want to relinquish their independence or think about death -- but we can all learn from this, not to do this to our own children and stress them out.
My in-laws are completely opposite -- they have everything in order for several years now and have given us copies of everything. They also have long term care.
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i'm sorry this is happening. i deal w/ a father-like figure who has no other family. i'm not his, but he's like a dad 2 me. he's secretive, & easily offended. he refuses 2 listen 2 helpful tips, & refuses help. he lives in a run-down nearly-condemned rental house w/ a very lousy landlord. i've had 2 anonymously report the landlord 2x when he neglected 2 pay the gas which is included in the elderly tenant's rent. the lease even says the landlord shall provide heat. i'm the closest 2 family the elder has, & i'm @ a loss of what 2 do about this elder's problems. he's verbally abusive, & again, easily offended when faced w/ the truth. i think he needs a certain type of help i just can't provide, & i don't have the expertise 2 deal w/ this type of person.
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I don't have an answer for you but your story is nearly the same as mine so wanted to let you know you are not alone. I have your same two questions and would welcome the answers as well.
My mom lives alone and my brother has given up and won't even call the last two months; so falling on me. I call to check on her and she "can be coherent" but mostly is living in a "dream state". I worry and want to give her help but she refuses any outside help whatsoever. She hasn't left the house in 8 months (other than my brief visits) and I worry she is not getting groceries, eating, etc. No friends are calling or visiting her anymore. I fear the isolation (self induced as she can drive) is increasing her paranoia and craziness -- and therefore inability to care for herself and live independently. I have called outside services - ElderCare ombudsman type persons but they warned they can't help if she isn't receptive to allowing them to come in and provide services. She too won't consider moving to senior living or assisted facility near me or in her hometown.
I just want you to know, I empathize with you and I'm coping by knowing I've communicated options and she freely refuses. (When do you know if they are still cognizant to make their own decisions and when you can successfully step in and do what is in their best interest?)
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tough situation hang in there
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It sounds like so many of us are going through some form of this in one way or the other, and the advice that has been given has been extremely helpful although my heart breaks for everyone's struggles.My mother is very stubborn and has created a nightmare in her house due to hoarding. There is nothing I can do unless she hurts herself or becomes ill. I have asked for help from agencies,but she refuses to accept it. I have started helping with whatever she allows, and I do not argue with Mom because I cannot win. I am arranging things for my husband and myself so that my son does not have to do this for us. It is the only positive thing I can find to do while dealing with Mother's issues. Best wishes to everyone.
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I have visited my grandmother in her nursing home and noted that a person who she brought up like a grandson is listed as a relative we would like this person removed as he is claiming to be her grandson . What are my rights
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legally she would need a legal document 2 name him a grandson
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In what way is he "claiming" to be her grandson? How might this claim be harmful to your grandmother?

Would "foster grandson" be more accurate? Does it matter?

I can see why she might want him considered a "relative." If there is some event that residents can invite family to, she might want to include him. I can see why he might want to honor her by proudly calling her Gramma and saying he is her grandson. I"m having a harder time seeing why this bothers you. It doesn't have anything to do with inheritance or POA rights or anything else legal, as far as I can see. So, the problem is ... ? Maybe there is some aspect of this you haven't mentioned.

Neither of my biological children have children. All of my step children have children. When asked, I say I have 12 grandchildren. When they greet me or introduce me they call m Grandma. Techincally, this is not true. But what would the benefit be of me saying I have 12 step-grandchildren, or of them introducing me as their step-grandmother? The nature of our relationship is definitely grandparent/grandchild. I would certainly list all 12 of them as my relatives if filling out a form for a nursing home. There is more than one kind of truth.

What am I missing in this picture?
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I've read with interest everyone's comments here to the first question 40 questions ago. But does anyone have any suggestions of what to do with an elderly parent who's been the victim of medical malpractice and can't make sound decisions? My mom went in for "routine" surgery last October 2011 and hasn't been out of the hospital since then. She used to golf 3x week and go for walks, even golfed the week of her surgery. The doctor screwed up and almost killed her. We know we have a medical malpractice lawsuit but the question is, now my mom is in a nursing facility but is so medicated that she no longer talks, has a feeding tube, refuses to communicate, eat and fights nurses when she's not medicated. She's under the delusion that she is at home and eating when we've told her many times she's not. She's completely immobile because of a stage 4 bedsore which she has to be turned every 2 hours (although I've been told it should have been every 15-30 min). All she does is hollers when someone touches and I think the prior hospitals just medicated her because when she wasn't, she screamed all night long. She would say we were trying to kill her and that she wanted her life back. So I don't know how to address this situation. She just moved to a nursing facilty this past Friday 3/16, so she hasn't been evaluated yet. My other sister is content to not call or have anything to do with mom even though she's mom's favorite. Her bell choir is more important. She even wanted to put mom in hospice and let her die so she didn't have to be inconvenienced. So I'm on my own with this. Guardianship isn't going to relieve the issue of getting my mom lucid enough to try talking again. Any suggestions? I'm quite disheartened as to what to do next.
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My heart goes out to you on this one. My mom is on her way to that time of life as well. The only advantage a Conservatorship or Guardianship would provide for you is to allow you where she should be placed whether it be a nursing home or 24/7 in home care during her final days. During the evaluation in her new setting hopefully they will conclude that she should be on some psychoactive drugs to help her cope. I hope this helps.
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I am the youngest of eight. My oldest brother took it upon himself 5 years ago to move my mother to his home in TX. For the past 5 years, the relationship between my mother and sister in law has not been the best. Thus my brother feels put in the middle. 2 weeks ago I recieved while at work, a phonecall from my mother saying my brother has decided she needs to move because she is causing marital problems and hurting my sister in law and he can't take it anymore. Soo... I took it upon myself to find and got info. on 3 different assisted livings. Sent via email to all my family and asked my brother to share with my mother. My Mom is of sound mind and can make decisions. I do not feel this is true with this. I have discussed this place with my mom and reassured her as other family members this would be in her best interest. (considering she sits daily in front of T.V.) No stimulation. My Mom gets excited and willing to do the move only after me answering her concerns and trying to reassure her. I do not feel my brother even showed her the email nor showed any interest in this. My mom has definitely fear of the unknown. I understand totally. I have for the past 30 some years worked as caregiver with the elderly. Ok.. everyone including her brother and sister agree this would be in her best interest. But, I don't feel my brother nor sister in law have done anything to reassure or care to address my moms concerns to help ease her mind. There is 5 of us adult children with spouses as well as several grand children in MI. My brother has told me this is Mom's decision no one elses. I feel differently. My Mom cannot make this change or decision because fear interrupts her. I am frustrated because my Mom is torn she wants to but is afraid. I have a place for her with deposit. Problem is noone is being open with talking more. Door has been closed because my uncle( mom's brother, executive of will) told her she had to make a decision and stick by it. I do not feel this is in her best interest to stay at my brothers, If anything happens to him... there is noone to care for my Mom. If something happens to me... there is family, facility to keep her care going. Should I get on a plane and do this face to face? I am frustrated because I want to care for my Mom but have everyone excepting her decision and not keeping the door open. What more can I do??
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Cyd631, I'm a little confused. Brother wants Mother to move, right? So staying where she is is not an option. She has to move. Besides the places you have picked out, what else is on the table?

Just what is she supposed to decide?
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Wow. Thank you for this post and question. My Dad passed away in January, and Mom is on a rapid decline. A recent hospital stay has landed her in a skilled nursing facility for "rehab". She'll be there for at least two weeks. In the meantime, I am trying to set up 24 hour care for her at home in anticipation that she will require serious assistance. She's got the money - it's difficult to find people you trust. We've already tried through agencies and it was a nightmare. For $21 per hour, we had some dishonest people. So, I'm going the direct hire route. I am not thrilled with the skilled nursing facility (and a very reputable one at $310+expenses per day for semi-private). The night nurses have attitude. They put Mom on a unit with very few residents who can talk or walk. I asked if they could move her and was told it's the only bed they have. I'm trying to do right by her and respect her wishes to die at home, but this is agonizing.
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I have to echo the "Wow" from MickiMc & I have to echo jennygc's early suggestion to remember the hospital stay! My neighbor passed away 2 years ago this month leaving his wife, suffering with dementia, alone & about to turn 80. Their only plan was to "die at home". This is a great plan for whoever passes away first, but is miserable for the remaining spouse. They had no biological children together & the daughters from his first marriage expressed no interest in helping their step-mother ... though constantly assuring me of their great love & concern for her. Her closest living relative is her sister, suffering from Alzheimer's, who is cared for by their niece & my neighbor did not trust the niece ... so she asked for my help.

I would give anything to have known what I know now ... two years ago. Unfortunately, this is a "trial by fire" journey. As much as we can "join their journey" ... who joins our journey? I found this blog tonight as I was furiously trying to peel away another layer & my heart was breaking as I read EVERY post and at the same time I could relate to EVERY post (except for the one questioning motives).

While we were working to probate my neighbor's (the husband), I cannot tell you how many times she sat there & asked, "Why couldn't I have died first?" This was heart wrenching. This couple meant the world to each other & though his health was in decline, he did not have to pass away when he did. Unlike most of you, I am not the family member, so I feel like I am getting a trial run for when it is my turn to deal with this for my mother. I had no idea when she asked for my help that I would wind up here, but her mind went downhill so quickly, it all happened so fast ... here I am. I would not change a thing except to maybe have advocated for his children to step in earlier. It is tricky as a neighbor, on the one hand you hope to live in a community where people notice if something is "wrong" & at the same time you want to respect other people's business. Many times over the last 7 years ago a few of us have asked one another, "Where are his children?!?" But we never asked them, we would never have wanted to insult them.

I am not a medical professional, but it is my very strong suspicion, that if they had moved into an assisted living facility 10 years ago, despite his failing health, he would still be alive & she would have a social support system in place so that when he did pass, she would not be alone.

In the first year, my neighbor had 3 trips to the hospital, but she was still "fine" to be at home. I was beginning the research of assisted living merely from a financial standpoint, but could never get her to visit any place with me. Since changing doctors & improving her care, there have been no trips to the hospital in the last 9 months ... and here in lies my problem! If I had known last June what I know now, I would have scoured this town to find any room available & we would not have returned home from the hospital.

I began part-time home care help in November 2010 when I realized just how much I was doing on a daily basis & that I was going out of town for Thanksgiving and there was nobody to be "me" while I was gone. This was met with the same resistance that assisted living was & is being met with, but she immediately loved the company & they were getting her out of the house. After an incident where she accidentally drank bleach, the part-time care was upped to 7 days/week, but no overnights. After the last hospital stay it was suggested that I set up a baby monitor to hear her across the driveway in case she fell or had an "accident" in the middle of the night. I was driving home considering this "care option" and decided that that was not an option worth considering. So, 24/7 care was set up just while she convalesced from the hospital & the plan was to go back to 7 days/week when she got "better" ... well, we never left 24/7 care. It is not safe for her to be left alone. The total cost for care in 2011 was $105,000.

When the 24/7 care began I let the service know that this was not a level of care that could be sustained long-term, but that with some life insurance & a CD cashed in we could make ends meet until the end of the year. Ever since I informed them that the move to assisted living was imminent, they have tried to come up with alternative plans allowing her to stay in her home. I understand that this is a huge hit off their bottom line, $10,000/mo is nothing to sneeze at in this economy, but I was honest & upfront with them from the beginning.

What has me searching the internet tonight is help on potential personal liability. They informed me that they attended a conference today & learned "new things" and that my neighbor could make things difficult for me if she has not been officially declared incompetent. I have not had her officially declared incompetent because I have wanted to spare her that last indecency & it has not been necessary (I am both her Durable POA as well as the POA for Healthcare). She is scheduled to move on Wednesday & now I am going to get to spend my weekend researching yet another layer of this onion called "senior care". The thought of having to reduce her care & run the risk of her getting hurt just to achieve another level of care is ridiculous to me, yet that is how the system islet up to work. I would feel horrible if she fell & got hurt, or worse, just to save the cost of overnight care.

My advice to anyone & everyone reading this steam of posts is to talk to everyone you know & tell them to talk to their friends & relatives NOW while healthy & set the plans in motion. It is not a fun or easy discussion to have, but it is a lot more fun to have it while we can advocate for our own care. EVERYONE I know knows someone who has gone through what we are going through & NOBODY wants to go through that (or put anyone else through it) ... yet, somehow we all get there because we all get older. My family sat down a few years ago & put together a care plan for my mother for "when it was time" ... based on what I have lived through for the last two years, I am recommending we sit down & re-evaluate that plan with my mother.

I am concerned about the not being able to "force" anyone to go if they are opposed to moving ... has anyone successfully navigated these waters since this communication stream began?

PS - the VA benefits are amazing, though tricky to navigate, my neighbor is eligible because she is the spouse of a veteran & I knew nothing about them in the beginning.
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I think I can answer this question about "forcing someone to move." You have to have a physician declare the patient unable to make informed decisions regarding their care and medical treatments.Then you need an attorney to file Confidential Letters for a Conservatorship of the person. That's what I had to do for both of my parents who were no longer safe in their home of 48 years. It is sad but necessary.
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Birdfan is right ... I have spoken with my attorney this morning & he says even though I have all the other documents the only way to "force" a move is to have the Conservatorship. The POAs do not sign away the grantor's rights, they merely allow the POA to act on their behalf. They definitely are a "must have" to take care of a family member or loved one, but they can be revoked by the grantor, as well. It truly is so sad because there is such a grey area between when the senior is just "not safe" alone vs. is a "danger" to themselves alone.

It's nice to have a forum to share with & learn from one another!
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It is good to know that I am not alone is this situation. It is so tough to see our parents getting older and not making safe choices. I encouraged my parents to move near me 7 years ago and I have been on 24/7 emergency call ever since. That doesn't mean that there is an emergency every day, but every time my phone rings I shudder to think what might be happening now. There have been at least 15 serious hospitalizations between the two of them. Dad is diabetic and is rapidly losing the ability to walk, Mom has had Alzheimer's for at least 8 years now. Dad is her primary caregiver, refuses to go into assisted living, and is hateful and mean when I can't do everything he demands. He used to ask for help, now he just demands it. He has started telling everyone he knows or sees that I never help and don't care about them because I have had to start setting boundaries on what I can't do. I found them a wonderful assisted living apartment that would accept them immediately and never kick them out for lack of money. He did visit the place but flatly refused to consider it. He is a huge control freak and a very proud man and does not want anyone else "messing" with him or my Mom. Because this has gone on for 7 years and for the most part of that I have been very heavily involved, including moving in with my Mom for 2 weeks while Dad was recovering from a stroke, it has all taken a huge toll on my mental health. I find myself considering suicide after dealing with him or having him spew his venom on me or about me to others. After reading so many of these posts, I still feel like basically there is nothing I can do except let him continue to make bad decisions and probably have him end up hating me. I am their only surviving child and have no other relatives living near by. I did go to my primary physician and he gave me an anti-anxiety drug, but I couldn't deal with the side effects and it didn't make my father go away. I am not basically suicidal, but I have decided to back off somewhat and let the chips fall where they may. I know that this sounds harsh, but when you are refused at every offer of help unless it is his idea, you feel like you have to give up to preserve your own mental health. I also have a husband and child who still need me.
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Dewlap, I have a very similar situation. Please try to acknowledge the fact that your parents made their choices on how to live their lives in their prime. It is your turn. I get the calls daily too. I get the I'm gonna make you regret this for the rest of your life verbage too, yet my parents are in Assisted Living and are going to stay there. You need to take care of yourself and your family.
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Thank you birdfan. I am always hearing people tell me to take care of myself and my family, yet I feel guilty because my parents are so needy. At the same time, I realize that I cannot take care of them because of their physical and mental conditions. I just have to live with some people thinking that I am a horrible person who doesn't care about her parents, but know in my heart that I do love them and feel I can't do any more. I'm glad that you were able to get your parents into assisted living.
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Can a physician in NYS force you to go to an assisted livng facility against your will. A friend left the hospital against doctor's orders because he told her this and then they sent the police to her house to return her to the hospital. Is this all legal in NYS?
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My issue with my mom( 82 years old) refuses to eat. She is in rehab.she says she does not like the food. When I ask her what food she prefers that I can bring. She says shrimp and rice, roast beef , steak. However, I brought in food many times and refused to eat. She's weak. she wants to die. any suggestions.
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Then take a big breath and step back. If she cannot be declared incompetent, you are not in a position to force her. Go ahead and let her do for herself. Eventually, she WILL need your help; just be ready.
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Although I do not mind moving into my mother in laws to help with her daily care, my question being, how do we get them to appointments the refuse. We even had her doctor have home nurses come in twice a week to check on her. She has had a ct scan and her doctor wants her to follow up with the urologist and a thoracic surgeon and she refuses. Flat refuses. She has been diagnosed with severe dimentia, probably Alzheimers, but because she refuses to see the neurologist, they can not have it written in stone. The home health nurse is having the social worker come out this week, yet I don't see how this helps the problem .. any insight is helpful!!!
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My experience with the social worker was very effective in facilitating my parents move out of their home of 48 years and into assisted living. They both have dementia and are no longer able to care for themselves. The social worker provided facts to my parents regarding their condition that I could not have spoken about with any credibility.It does take time for them to process the new reality.
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my mom refuses to get out of bed,refuses to eat,refuses to take her blood pressure meds. also cardiac meds,she has swing moods becomes very nasty with my dad who is a cardiac pt.with only 30% of his heart working, she is confused, refuses to go to her doctor ,and lately she refuses to take a shower we offer to help her and she becomes very nasty,she is steady on her feet how do we as a family get her to comply with medication ,cleanliness,were do we turn she also says you can't make me do anything.
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ernurse, you can't make her do anything. Sigh.

If your mom refuses to get out of bed and refuses to eat, she will get weaker and weaker and die. Perhaps that is her plan. Perhaps that is why she will not see a doctor or take her meds. Aside from her own actions, is she near the end of life? Have you ever had a discussion with her regarding her beliefs and attitudes toward end-of-life issues? Would she be eligible for Hospice?

You say that she "is confused." It is likely she has dementia? Adults who are in their right minds can make decisions for themselves, even if we consider the decisions to be self-destructive. But generally we want to protect our loved ones from their own bad decisions if they are truly not competent to act in their own best interests. So an important judgment has to be made regarding your mother's mental status. And having some input from medical professionals would sure be valuable! I wonder if you talk to her doctor if he or she might order a few nurse visits to try to determine what is going on. Talking to a case worker from Social Services might be a useful place to start also.

My heart goes out to you. What you are facing is very painful.
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all her wishes she has made`,her doctor aware of what is going on his answer nursing home ,my dad dead against that,but i will take your advise on social service i have access to that ,thank you
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thank god for computers I typed looking for help and there are some many of us trying to care for our parents, most of us are in our sixties too. My father is 88 just diagnosed with early stages of alzhiemers, well in the past month hes
up all night sleeps odd times refuses to get up off the couch eat bathe. and very mean to me and my mother and siblings. Almost scares us at some point. Refuses to let anyone in the house I can go on and on. Problem is my mother is a diabetic who has insulin twice a day;..My dad used to give it to her in the am but no more... He messes up big time. I am so afraid someone is gonna get hurt and dont know where to turn. Insurance dont cover someone coming to give insulin and we can t be there everyday. what to do with mom 85 and father. whose losing it? where will he have to go? Please any help Iam desperate
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