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Contacting the insurer and even the police may help. Our hearts are with you - you have one stubborn elder!
Carol
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Take them to a 6 pack 24/7 care. Look around, and choose what is close to you and afordable
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If he forgets where his car is parked, would it be safe for you to pick it up and put it into storage somewhere? Disable it? Would there be a risk of being accused by police of stealing it? How about contacting his insurer?
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My heart goes out to all of you. I have a father-in-law that's got dementia but refuses to seek treatment. He is almost completely deaf and blind at the age of 90 years old. And most frightening he is still driving!! He sometimes forgets where he parks his car to the point to where he would get an APB out to look for his vehicle because he would forget where he parked. Not to mention he forgets most of the things he says. Who can I contact? I've already reported his driving to the DMV over a month ago, which Ive gotten no response so far. What more can I do?
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Well said GA! My mother, 88, has been in a nursing home since October 2012. Due to parkinsons, numerous strokes and dementia she's coming near to the end of her time but the staff have cared for her magnificently and continue to do so.
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(Un)FriendlyKarl, you wrote:

"They killed her there because she was still breathing and talking and eating when we last saw her."

Proof?? One doesn't make accusations like these even if you have "videoed" it. Have you ordered the full medical chart and had it reviewed by an independent medical professional? If not, your charges are just that - charges. And it's highly inappropriate to name a facility on a public forum. If you've made other such public accusations, you've made your activity actionable through legal recourse.

"I think you are just a selfish and ungrateful daughter..."

"You are supposed to do the best of everything for your life when your sick relative is still alive God dammit !!!!! not when they are dead"

Whew, that's quite an attack, with a lot of vitriole.

I am sorry for the loss of your grandmother, but displaced anger toward another poster is not an appropriate way of reflecting your sadness.

Develop some basic courtesy toward others; it's an integral part of any forum.
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Friendly Karl, I'm sorry for the loss of your grandmother, and I know some day you will look back on this post and see it for what it is - an expression of the deepest wish that you could have done more and kept her from dying and an attempt to soothe your own overwhelming feelings of guilt.

Yes, you did EVERYTHING you could, and then some, If no one else commends you for all you did and kept track of, I will. But, realize that she would not have gone into the nursing home in the first place if she was totally "in good health" and did not need more care than you could provide. And no, it is NOT at all true that "everyone dies quickly" in a facility. Not knowing what your grandmother's medical issues all were, it is possible that though she died there, they did not "kill her" with bad care, but if you really think they did then by all means gather the evidence and file the appropriate complaint; it is possible that you could set up a time wth facility medical staff to go over her record with them and have them explain more of what happened to you. I have done that on occasion for a long time rehab patient we have lost; the most rewarding case was with the sister of a little one we had cared for with Leigh disease. It really helped the sister to learn how everything possible was done, and even inspired her to look at a healthcare career for herself.

My concern with your post is this: Using a facility and staying as involved as possible in a loved one's life is not always a selfish and ungrateful thing to do, and posting that will hurt some people's hearts who have really, like you, made the best decisions they can in their circumstances.

Now that you are caring for mom, I hope you are blessed with many more years with her and that they are a blessing to you both. Make sure to take care of yourself as well as possible too, and this may seem trivial in the light of everything else that is happening to you, but adults who have fractures should have bone density assessed and treated once the fracture has healed to help prevent further fractures and this often goes overlooked.
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It is July 31, 2014 I have just read your story about your mother's situation. Let me make this brief. I have just lost my grandmother March 26, 2014 in a nursing home. She did not even last two weeks there. She was in good health. This was at the Hebrew Home, Riverdale, New York. They killed her there because she was still breathing and talking and eating when we last saw her. I have pictures and video of this. Going back to your question, it is selfish for you to think about how you are going to put your mom in a nursing home. In my case, I grew up with my grandmom and I still dont have a family and for 30 year or more I was watching her health and going to the doctors with her. I had a large file with all her reports, blood work from the past, etc and her doctors would be all shocked to see all this. They would commend me for being so dedicated to her. In her last two years of life I would even wash her, cook for her, etc. I quit my job to take care of her and I even lost my first and only real marriage in my life because I loved my grandmom over anything and I did not want to let her go. I was so much into her health that I almost sounded like a doctor to her doctors. I am a laboratory technologist though. So, in short let me just say that if you really love your mother you show it now when she is still alive ( I hope she is because your article is dated 2008 ) not after she is dead. Get the point? You are struggling how you are going to put your mother in a nursing home. I did the opposite. I fought against this because grandmom did not want to go into a nursing home because she knows everyone dies quickly there. I unfortunately got sick and my mother broke her hips, so I have to watch over two people. Everything got very complicated for me. I think you are just a selfish and ungrateful daughter and I hope you dont suffer of guilt afterwards, because guilt feelings in situations like you follow you forever and ever. God bless you and your mom. You are supposed to do the best of everything for your life when your sick relative is still alive God dammit !!!!! not when they are dead.
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Brooke, this is a lot like another post recently, except your folks are in worse shape. If I remember, you have already been to Adult Protective Services, and are in a catch 22 where because family members are keeping it patched together, the grandparents are not unsafe or a threat to themselves or others. Or maybe that was someone else's story...there are so many stories just like this. You can photograph anything wildly unsafe in the home, like bags stuffed next to a stove or some other fire hazard, or fecal material not being properly disposed of...try to use that to get help, to get a serious and unannounced home visit, but if there is no way to get off of square one with this, if Adult Protective Services won't listen and getting guardianship (your mom should be the one to do this, BTW, not you) then honestly...things are in a holding pattern until something bad happens. We can pray that nothing bad will happen but this really can't go on forever. Something bad will happen anyways, and even death will happen anyways, but it would happen under more controlled circumstances with less suffering for everyone involved rather than what is going on now if some help was accepted.

But yeah, the rules are the rules. Until someone is declared incompetent they have almost absolute rights to self-determination within the constraints of the law and the standards of the Dept. of Health. If there is nothing more you can do there is nothing more you can do.

You on the other hand are trying to make sure your life turns out better than that. First you are not obese or overweight, and you are presumably getting care for your lupus, and that should include treatment for your low bone density. It is your grandparent's home that would be involved in estate recovery should they need Medicaid for the things Medicare will not cover, not your or your mom's home. And I hope you use a different physician than your grandfather's, who had no help for your concerns about the frequent falls; what you describe is WAY below any standard of care. Let me guess - no referral to a geriatrician or a PT or OT to try to help, no call to a social worker, just overidentifying with an elder who is perceived as just being fiercely independent and fighting his children who want to take all his independence away from him, since grandfather, with or without your help, groomed and dressed in non-smelly clothes for the visit and was on his best showtimers' behavior. In Arkansas, if you are anywhere near Little Rock there is a geriatric center at UAMS and at St. Vincent's where a comprehensive job could be done, and they do take Medicare. They have a housecall program for within 30 mile radius. You could try this link for UAMS: aging.uams.edu/?id=4525&sid=6.
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We are struggling with the same circumstance. MIL is not safe at home and bored as Hell. Her MD says she is FINE. The Primary and a Neurologist would have to sign a paper stating they need safe placement in a nursing home. We are waiting for this fine patient to fall or start a fire in the meantime. I fully expect her to lock herself out of the house on a sub-zero day. ARRRRRGH!
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There are definitely some good agencies out there. My mother vehemently refused health care services, and she needed them. I didn't know what to do and she just kept getting worse, both with her health and her co-operation. I certainly feel your pain. It got to a point where we had to disregard her wishes. It was getting too ridiculous to handle. Low and behold, she's accepted it. And she did so rather quickly once it started. I live a little outside of GA and went to Abundant Life Assisted Services - and luckily, everything has been going smoothly since. I do hope you have figured out your best solution. And I hope everyone holds the strength needed to get through it, it's not easy...
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Brooke, my uncle was in rehab when the final docs were ready to be signed. The lawyer came with her intern and her Notary, to the rehab so my uncle could sign the documents. If you call the lawyer, and explain your Mom's situation, maybe a house visit can be arranged. My uncle was getting pro bono services due to financial hardship, so I do not know if you would have to pay a fee for a house visit.
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I read on another question/answer something about calling social services where they come in and 'evaluate' or 'assess' the person and to ask them to do this for at least 2-3.5 hours because people put on their best behavior only for so long. Then the answer went on to explain that they could have the person hospitalized if they deemed necessary and unfortunately for the person and family, actually force them to leave the home for further evaluation at a hospital where they will further assess whether the person requires nursing home care. If they decide the person requires a 24/7 facility they will contact the family. You really should find this post because the person that posted it actually went through this situation and it was an eye opener for me to read as well because she said her 'saving grace' was the fact that she had already reviewed nursing homes prior to the incident happening. Reason being is that if the social services/govt contact the family and there is no clear decision (one of them doesnt want to place the person) they will choose whatever home they want and it may not be a spectacular choice either. The answer also stated that when the social services come out for the 'visit' you will need to provide proof such as the her speech impairment, financial forgetfulness, evidence that she cannot care for herself. If I were you I would google your states Adult social services and start from there. You've done your share of caregiving in my opinion, 6 years is a long time and now you need help that's all.
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I read on another question/answer something about calling social services where they come in and 'evaluate' or 'assess' the person and to ask them to do this for at least 2-3.5 hours because people put on their best behavior only for so long. Then the answer went on to explain that they could have the person hospitalized if they deemed necessary and unfortunately for the person and family, actually force them to leave the home for further evaluation at a hospital where they will further assess whether the person requires nursing home care. If they decide the person requires a 24/7 facility they will contact the family. You really should find this post because the person that posted it actually went through this situation and it was an eye opener for me to read as well because she said her 'saving grace' was the fact that she had already reviewed nursing homes prior to the incident happening. Reason being is that if the social services/govt contact the family and there is no clear decision (one of them doesnt want to place the person) they will choose whatever home they want and it may not be a spectacular choice either. The answer also stated that when the social services come out for the 'visit' you will need to provide proof such as the her speech impairment, financial forgetfulness, evidence that she cannot care for herself. If I were you I would google your states Adult social services and start from there. You've done your share of caregiving in my opinion, 6 years is a long time and now you need help that's all.
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I've posted this (highly selfish and disturbing) question to some others, and this is their advice/replies to the topic
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Brooke..you are sacrificing your health and the wellbeing of your family for your grandparents. Get over the guilt and get on with your life! They are not able or even willing to help themselves. You will physically and emotionally be pulled down into their pit and with time there will be no way to escape. This is not the life you want for your daughter.

You sound like a wonderful granddaughter and I sound very harsh; but your responsibility is to yourself, husband and daughter. You have done more than enough. Getting your education is the best thing you can do.

I wish you well. God bless!
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Absolutely -you are not selfish Brooke - You are carrying far more than you should be. They are making choices that affect their welfare. It is not just the choices you are making. It does not have to be your job. You first responsibility is to yourself, your husband and your child. If you still want to be involved you could call the local agency on aging, or social services or APS and tell them your grandparents need help. Something could happen to them even if you keeo doing what you are doing -you can't prevent that,, and worse, something could happen to you.
Repeat to yourself you are not selfish! Nor are you guilty of anything.Remember - they are making choices too that are not n their own best interests.

I do agree with Jeanne "It is your kind and compassionate behavior that is enabling them to live the way they do."

Please look after you, keep in touch and let us know how it goes. ((((((hugs))))) Joan
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Alas, you must be able to grasp my fatigue from all the horrible typos...:)
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I must admit something. I have been planning just that very thing. It's just that I have felt so wrong do actually do it. I mean, it makes me feel like such a jerk to even think of just not caring for them. I feel guilty and selfish for the plans alone. I'm not even sure if I could forgive myself if something happened to them after I distanced myself.
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Ah, Brooke71701, my heart goes out to you. What a nightmare you seem trapped in.

You have tried everything. What if you tried nothing? What if you withdrew from this situation? There is no law that grandchildren have to financially support their grandparents or do their laundry. They think they can take care of themselves, so let them. When Grandma calls that Grandpa has fallen and needs help getting up, call 911 for her.

It is your kind and compassionate behavior that is enabling them to live the way they do. What would happen if you stopped that behavior?
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Sorry, I didn't not mean for all of the above to be an "answer".
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Oh the laws! Yes, we know about not being able to place my grandparents in a home if they don't want to go. But, did you now if you force care on them in their homes, such as simply cleaning them, you could be charged with battery! Oh yes, whatever they do or don't want if perfectly fine by law. It is you, the care giver, that is in the wrong. When you struggle to make sure you are doing everything you can, and they refuse even the smallest of things, like a bath, you are committing a crime if you continue caring for them and they don't want it. I live in Arkansas (hello Texan neighbors).

I'm sure that sounds pretty ridiculous to you, but try this on for size. When we asked the physician for help on the coming visit, we got hacked off at the knees. The visit was regarding my grandfather's BROKEN BACK that resulted from his constant falling. The physician rebuked and shamed us for wanting such a thing in front of my grandparents AND said she would never assist in putting my grandfather in a nursing home (didn't believe in it) AND sent him back home with us that day.

Mind you, the plot thickens. My grandparents only have 1 child, my mother. Further, I am my mother's only child. I also have a little girl. Hands and ability for my grandparents' care and well being are extremely limited. None of us really have any money and the only retirement my grandparents get besides social security is $115 per month from the mill he worked for years ago.

You should probably also have some insight into the ages and health of my family. I am soon to be 32 years old. I have Lupus and enough secondary conditions to write you a volume. My little girl is 12 and my mother is will be 50 soon and is morbidly obese. My grandparents are both in their 70's. He is deaf and suffers from Parkinson's.

Now the falls...by both of them. Fractured backs, fractured ankles, torn rotator cuffs, stitches from busted heads, bruises that are so deep they take MONTHS to heal... Why don't they receive the wake up call? Why don't they see how this affects my mother and me?

They cannot prepare large meals for sure, but complain about nearly everything you fix and won't eat right...unless it's grilled or peanut butter crackers. They are diabetics and have heart problems. They both take a bushel of pills and insurance doesn't cover all of it.

They refuse to go to a home or even an apartment because their little dog Emma can't go, my grandfather won't be able to smoke at his leisure, and they will only be allowed to keep $40 per month for personal spending (among several other reasons they have conceived). Assistance in the home is only limited to a couple of days per week and only about 2 hours at a time then, which they don't want.

They are hoarders to say the least. The house is so crowded you pretty well have to turn sideways to move around in their old trailer. I am already paying storage room fees for some of the stuff, which they will never use again. They won't get rid of anything and I can't take on anymore storage bills. The house is so crowded that the EMTs could not carry my grandmother out of the house when she broke her ankle...so they made her WALK on it all the way out.

My mother and I try to help financially by picking up the "month that is left at the end of the money". As I said, we have no reserves, so all of us teeter on our own financial cliff constantly. We don't know what else to do.

I mentioned that my mother is morbidly obese. She does come sometimes and stay with they, but is about as immobile as they are. She has undergone numerous surgeries on her legs and still needs her back done. She can do nothing, but sit there...and maybe call if there is a real need. My mother can't even tend herself efficiently, much less them.

I change the beds, do the laundry, do the dishes, administer the meds, tend the dog, take out the garbage, wash my grandmother, etc. I have to get them up and down because they can't do it on their own. This is killing me physically. My grandmother is about 3 times my size and my grandfather is probably twice as big. I am barely 5 feet myself, right at about 120 pounds and have osteoporosis (secondary to the Lupus). It's like lifting dead weight when they are down. My grandmother has spinal stenosis and just lays flat of her back sometimes for a week at a time.

Both of my grandparents are incontinent. The laundry piles high and the expense of all the adult diapers just adds to the financial burden. At least my grandmother lets me clean her. Not my grandfather though. He will only let my grandmother do it. I guess you can see how well that works out. Because of that he sometimes develops sores on his backside, scrotum, etc. He can't take care of them and won't let me or my mother. Only my grandmother...

Half the time, my grandfather doesn't know or care that his clothes are drenched with urine. If you mention it, he will NOT get out of the wet clothes just for spite. So, you just watch him wallow in them for about 3 hours without exchanging a word. At least he will come out of them that way. Otherwise, he might decide to wear them for a couple of days.

They won't even apply for help through ElderCare. We were told that if they got assistance, upon the death of one, the other, or both, the program had the right to recover their costs by seizing what little they own. It was the same with Medicare paying for that little 2 hours of babysitting per day for about 3 days per week. That was an automatic no-go for them.

Not to mention, we've had experience with Home Health and the like when my great-grandmother was living. These people were not qualified/certified in any way. They were the average applicants off the street. They would come late, leave early, sometimes not show at all, stay on the phone the entire time they were there, ask for food, rummage through drawers (and steal), and never lift a finger for my great-grandmother. That experience, coupled with the idea that my grandparents could lose what they own to pay for it, really leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

Oh, but my grandmother is convinced that she can still do for both of them. That's right, she still even DRIVES. You can barely even see the damage to the bumper of the truck where she ran into the porch a couple of weeks ago. No big deal, right?

My grandfather had enough since about a decade ago to quit driving, thankfully. But he is still convinced that he is going hunting and fishing all the time. So, he gets the bright idea to venture outside every now and then.

My grandmother, who has everything under control, can't prevent him from going outside of course. Then he falls out somewhere, with his arms and legs all twisted around and underneath him and just has to lay there until my grandmother can get ahold of me.

Where am I? Forty-five minutes away, trying to get the education that nobody in my family has. I am desperately trying to get into a working position that my own health can deal with. Lupus is no joke, friends. I need to make enough money to help run my grandparents home and provide for their needs. I need to make double that because I can see where this is going with my mother.

Luckily, my husband is wonderful. He is a large man and that has its advantages. He comes to the rescue and scoops up my grandfather like a baby and carries him back into the house from falls in the yard and does other lifting that I can't muster the strength to do. So, where is my husband the rest of the time? Working long hours, seven days per week. Why? Because we need the money to sustain us AND my grandparents expenses.

At this point, I am good with any suggestions for things we have not tried. We don't have any kind of POA over my grandparents. About a month ago, my grandmother realized she needed my grandfather's signature even for her to "take care of things." (The only wake up she's had.) She drove herself to town and had the papers drawn up finally and my mother and I paid the fees. Now the problem is, neither of them ever "feel good" so there has been no return trip for the final signatures.

I need somebody to tell me what can be done and how to go about it.
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More issues are popping up all the time but these are the most important. One fact stands out above all. When your mom or dad is mentally clear for the most part you can’t force them to do anything they refuse to do.Try to visit their living home first and then explain them the facilities available at living home.
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My Mother needs a nursing home, I have guardienship for her, but she refuses to go to the doctor. She now has a fractured hand from falling and more x rays are needed. She still will not go. How can I get her checked out, nursing requires physical from doctor,
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What if you just said No? When the hospital calls, say "I cannot pick her up. She will need to make other arrangements." Then what? Perhaps the Social Worker will call you and try to insist that you come. "I'm sick. I don't drive. I cannot do this. I hope you can work with my mother and tell her what her other options are."

You cannot control your mother's decisions about where to live. But you can control your own decisions about what you will do.

Could you bring yourself to practice this tough love? Would it be effective in helping your mother see that she is not so independent after all? I don't know. It is something to think about, perhaps.

And by the way, my sisters located an nice assisted living facility that accepts Medicaid, for our mother. (She is resisting, but that is another story.) So don't give up that idea entirely without a thorough search of your area.

Good luck!
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Mom is a frail 69 years old. Her hip and elbow were replaced after falling a few years back. She has a condition in her feet called Charcot (longer term) which caused breaks in her feet, toes, and fallen arches. She has severe osteoporosis. She falls daily and the EMS takes her to the hospital in another town (we have no hospital). I will be called to come pick her up. I told her she might break her neck in a fall which could be lethal. She ignores me. She refuses to live in a rest home. All her friends have disappeared, worn out by her calling for help. She cannot live in my house because it is not designed for the handicapped. Due to steps up to my house she cannot get the wheelchair inside. I don't want my other mad at me, and I have explained things to her. She can't afford assisted living. She has been living in a senior's apt which is just that- an apartment with no one with her. I cannot drive due to health problems. She has no siblings, and cousins ignore her. I am tired of going out of town to the hospital only to have a social worker tell me to check in with her. A deaf ear is turned when I say I do not drive, and I have been sick. My husband still works and is gone 12 hrs a day. I want to just move far away! I know you cannot force someone into a rest home, but this is ruining our personal life and is endangering my mothers. She has her mental facilities. But there has to be a way to force her into a home to save her own life. She cannot feel her feet and is always trying to walk, trips over things, I can't take it anymore!
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I am currently dealing with this situation with my soon to be 93 year old aunt with dementia.
she has been living on her own, but has required more and more of my help to the point that I have to cook & clean for her. Even then, she doesn't eat much.
Now, she is in a Psch. hospital because 3 weeks ago she called 911 & told the police that she is going to kill herself. In the hospital they have, what they call, "stabilized her" and they want to release her back to live on her own with a 3 day a week home health aid. I don't agree and can not go on with the increased demand. She has qualified for Medicaid Nursing home care, but refuses to go. If they release her to her apartment, it will be a nightmare that I just can't deal with anymore as I work and have 2 children who have medical issues...I don't know what to do.
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if a person wasa admitted to the hospital/ the hospital runs some test and says well i think you may have had a mini stroke. the person is ok and upon being released from the hospital, her children said well we don't want mom and grandma to be alone anymore and sock her in a nursing home. what can she do/
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Hi Sunshine, (ah, yes - those typos: ),

Third party help is so vital with a lot of these decisions. Elders don't often (understandably) want to "take orders" from their adult kids, no matter how well it is said or how good our intentions. Much better to have a doctor, pastor or good friend to help with these things.

Carol
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Planned on using the word temporary. We are in a "very" rural part of Texas and don't think assisted living is avail. without going in excess of 25-35 mi. one way. Plus this nursing facility uses her primary care physican who knows her history. Am I correct that medicare does not cover respite unless the person is on hospice? The facility I talked with said their charge is $80 a day which I thought was very reasonable and they don't have a set limit to the amount of days she can stay...within reason. Should we mark all the clothes she is taking with her to respite with her name? Any other important things we should be aware of?
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