Can we force my ex-MIL to go to hospital for treatment and complete DNR, etc. paperwork? What are legal implications knowing she is dying?

Thank you for letting us know; accept my condolences on her loss.
She was 85 years old.
If it had not been colorectal cancer it would have been SOMETHING.
NO ONE writes the obit for an 85 year old and says "She died too young".
There is no need to blame HER for her cancer. Nor for her death. And there's no right to blame her for her choices. They weren't ours to make.

I got my first cancer age 47 35 years ago and treated it with everything. Beat it back for 35 years. Did the chemo and etc; had a daughter just raised and on her own and wanted to be there for her, a new relationship and lots of life to live. I am very grateful for those happy 35 years.

That was 35 years ago and now another diagnosis of cancer at 81. This time I will decide for myself what to do at this ADVANCED AGE. I had the lumpectomy but did not allow withdrawal of nodes, will not have radiation, will not have chemo.
We all die of something. I have the lump off and clean margins and will hope for some few good years, but if cancer is what takes me then it will have to beat out atrial fib, stroke, coronary artery disease I already have due to just the aging process.

There is no need to blame your MIL. This was her choice for her own life and for her own death. She did not have to face her cancer for more than a day. She got to stay in her own home. Do you think she would have been happier in Happy Valley Convalescent with a colostomy bag to deal with, with the coming losses of more years if she had to live them?
Just from my own perspective as an old retired RN, I doubt it.

I am sorry for this grief. She made her choice. Your husband could not have changed that no matter how he had intervened. No one has to fear for her and watch every loss coming with age, and she doesn't have to endure that.
She did it her way.
Allow that to be and be happy for her that she did it her own way and is now at peace.

Just my personal opinion. The moment we are born our death is certain. She had a long life. She is at peace. Allow yourselves now to also be at peace. One needn't understand another's wishes to recognize their right to them.

I’m very sorry. No one wants to be a cautionary tale to others. This forum so often sees unreasonable elders with families so intimidated or afraid of taking action, it’s truly sad. I wish you all peace

There are many people who make the choice and get stage 4 cancer. My brother who was of sound mind never saw a doctor while his cancer was growing for about 3 years. Hes lasted 6 wekks from his diagnosis. Try not to feel anger or guilt here. It was the patient's choice

I am so sorry Kathy.

Hello everyone and thank you all for your advice and kind words. I'm very sorry it has taken me so long to respond ... things around here got pretty crazy and tense. So my ex-husband spent the entire weekend with his mom, along with his aunt, with he and the aunt continually telling MIL she needed medical attention. She continued to refuse, and yes apparently everyone except me was afraid of her for whatever reason ... my ex even said to me that he could not make her do something she didn't want to do! He came back home Sunday night, went to work Monday and Tuesday, but had started reaching out to the county officials where his mother lived and they were going to try to get the aging office to intervene. He was waiting to hear back from them Tuesday afternoon but they did not call. So on Wednesday (yesterday) he went to work and planned to leave halfway through the day and head back out there. He had also been trying to reach his aunt but she was not answering her phone (believe it or not ... no cell phone, only a landline at her home 35 minutes away from ex-MIL). So before he finished work, he got a call from his aunt. Still not sure how and who made it happen, but aunt told him that his mother was now at the E.R. So he left work immediately and headed out there. Three hours after his aunt called him, the doctors reported they found cancer in her rectum and her chest, and that her stomach was so messed up that her kidneys were shutting down, and that she would not be with us long (husband's words ... I still need to find out more). So the call came from his aunt at 1:30, doctors gave the diagnoses and prognoses at 4:30. They were going to administer pain meds to help her rest. At 7:35 my husband called to say she had just passed. I am so sad for my husband and for his aunt, and even for his mother. But I'm also so angry that she allowed this to happen. Colorectal cancer is very treatable when it is found in time. This woman never had a colonoscopy in her life! The way she allowed herself to die is just so senseless ... I just don't understand! And now my husband needs to grieve, but he will need to now attend to the "business" aspects of her death, and yes he will likely have to face an investigation from the ME because the hospital is obligated to report the state that she was in, and the ME is obligated to try and determine if this is a case of neglect and elder abuse. I can tell you that she was definitely of sound mind, although I always thought she was a bit "off." Thank you all again.

So sorry this is happening to you.

Call EMS. She can refuse to go to the hospital. At least it is documented that she has refused treatment.

My MIL willed herself to die while in Rehab. Dr. called it "failure to thrive". She was in to strengthen her after a UTI taken care of in the hospital. She was 91 living alone. The plan was to transfer her to a Rehab near the POA. Then after her stay, transfer her to an AL or to live with one of her sons. Well, someone told her of this plan. She did not want to live near POA because she and wife did not get along and she did not want to leave her home. So, she started not participating in her therapy. Then she started acting like she could do nothing for herself. Because of her personality I felt she was faking in the beginning and then she went too far. She was a self-centered woman.

So sorry you are going thru this. I felt that my MIL was playing her boys in the beginning. I think she thought by not participating, they would discharge her. Getting ur MIL to the hospital may do nothing for her, but she may be given comfort care to help her through her final days.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. As EX DIL, not allowed to step foot on the property, and living 2 hours away I don't see why anyone would look at you for any reason.

Your husband should document his visits and attempts to get mom to care. Others are probably correct that he should call 911 to make it official that SHE is refusing to go. Sadly, its a lose/lose because MIL clearly wants to die in her own home, and if she is forced to go (which is definitely what would happen where I live), she will probably be given IV fluids and other life extending measures that will just end in more suffering. Hopefully, she is competent to sign DNR papers and avoid this.

If this were yesterday, I would have given a different answer. But last night my friend told me the story of her son finding her mother dead on the toilet, with evidence of vomiting blood. My friend, a nurse, was very involved in her care, but mom wanted to be at home with no help other than family. She was not on hospice or deemed terminal.

After walking into this horrific scene, and watching the EMT's "work" her mother for what felt like an eternity (no DNR), she was questioned at length by the police for elder abuse.

Kathy,
Can you update us.
I am concerned for you all.

I don't much like pain (or misery) so I would likely not choose the route of ex-MIL. Other than that, it seems to me that she has made her choice pretty clear. She intends to make her Final Exit "my way". I have no problem with VSED, but medical support would be essential IMO (see pain/misery above). Family liability in this case might be an issue if there is no DNR and they "knowingly" allowed her to deteriorate to the point of death.

Call EMS. If of sound mind she can refuse them too of course, but seems appropriate nevertheless.

Is your ex so afraid to go against his mother's wishes that he's willing to watch her die of starvation in front of his eyes rather than call an ambulance???? I'd be on the phone SO FAST her head would spin off! Let the EMS guys tell your ex they'll "do nothing" for this 85 year old emaciated woman who's likely suffering from advanced dementia at this point! He'll have gone on record as calling for help which was refused or whatever, but it will clear HIS name in terms of neglect.

Years ago I was having chest pains that were quite painful for hours. My daughter who was 13 years old at the time, came home from school, took one look at me, and said Mom, call 911. I said No. She said Call 911 or I will. I said Don't you dare! She called 911. The EMS team wheeled a stretcher into my bedroom and wheeled ME out on it. My blood pressure was 200/140. Not just from my daughter thumbing her nose at me, but because I had pericarditis, unbeknownst to me.

Sometimes in life, we have to go against our parents wishes and do the right thing, whether they like it or not.

Call EMS. Even if she doesn't get in the ambulance, your conscience will be clear because you've done all you could to help her.

She's your ex-MIL. You have no obligation to save her, but you should try and then let chips fall where they may.

I’d definitely make the call. It’s sad beyond words, it shouldn’t have happened this way, but I know a stubborn elder can make it so difficult. She’s likely not to going to live, and that’s okay, but make sure it’s known that the family tried to get help and this was her choice

Call EMS.
If THEY don't force her to ER I will be surprised.
You are likely correct that she is dying, and that she will die.
That is and has been her own choice.
There is no reason that her son has to witness her dying in her own home and face questions of authorities as to why he did not summon help.
So you should now call EMS.
PERIOD.
Other than that, say she has always been in her right mind, has always said no to hospital, and that no one could change her mind.

She is 85 and has had a long life on her own terms, made her own choices, and lived at home all her life.
Is that not one option? It seems to me that it IS her option.

You need not worry about DNR papers now.
No medical personnel will work overly hard to keep an 85 year old woman, whose son tells them has made these choices for her own life, live. They may do some initial workup and resuscitation, but if son tells them to stop (as he should) they will stop.

We all die. Some of us die fighting to live.
Some of us die in our own homes on our own terms.

I am sorry. This must be distressing.
If son chooses he can call authorities such as APS or Sheriff's office. They will handle getting emergency services transport whether MIL wishes it or not.
I DO fear if you do not do this now you may face questioning. Your MIL has chosen her own exit, but it is an unusual choice.
I am very sorry.