Gardening as therapy.

Windyridge~LOL!! Cats and gardening go hand in hand for me as my cat follows me around the yard and he sometimes helps to bury bulbs!!! He is like a dog and it is a game for him.

GA~I have not planted any veggies in some years, but due to water restrictions, we have let some things go such as our lawn is not very green year round. My camellias and roses do well as I can deep water them once a week. Most of my neighbors have brown lawns too. Our summers are very hot high 90's-over 100. I guess we are just hoping our normal weather patterns will return with 14 inches of rain every year. We are expecting an El Nino this year, shall see what happens.

GA....just an update......burning bushes are now starting to turn....I am going to track progress...guess I was travelling too often for the job to keep track....we'll see...

I wouldn't want to plant anything shrubby along a driveway as it could act as a snowfence and deepen drifts along the drive, depending on wind direction. I would look for tough, drought tolerant perennials that can be mowed to the ground in the Fall, extra snow cover from snow plowing/blowing would only act as more insulation.

Windy,

How steep is the grade? 10%? 30%? Is the grassy area growing without erosion and loss of moisture as it drains downhill? That as well as the open exposure to the winter winds would be my first concern. Does this area face the west and get the winds from the Great Lakes?

What I'd grow on a flat area would be different from growing on a sloped area, especially one exposed to snow being thrown up during the winter. Roses such as the Austin roses and other delicate ones would definitely be out. I lost a lot of roses from exposure to Western winds, on a flat surface, and it's not as cold in my area as it would be if we had the Great Lakes winds.

Ornamental grasses might be a possibility. I'm partial to hydrangeas, but let me check to find out how they handle your microclimate issues. Another possibility is a combination of shrubs that flower and produce berries as well as multiple color changes in the fall.

But I've been hogging the space here so I'm going to let others have a chance to offer suggestions.

Sharyn,

I've read about some of the gardeners who've been concerned about the drought, and how inadequate moisture affects the taste of their crops. That must be so discouraging...all that work and the plants don't taste good enough to eat.

Have you been badly affected this year? As I recall this year has been the driest for CA in some time.

Do you do any xeriscaping? I was thinking it's probably a good idea to incorporate that into a garden wherever we are; it would certainly minimize the cost of watering.


Finished,

Welcome to the gardening group! I'm envious of your cabin in the woods. Reading about Ashlynne's plans to hole up over the winter, now your plans to be in the woods....makes me very envious. Of course I romantically conceive of a nice cabin, gas burning wood stove (no pollution as with a wood stove even if the fragrance is nicer), relaxing days, thick homemade quilts to wrap up in, perhaps walking through the woods during light snowfalls, maybe seeing a deer or two....

Would the greenhouse be at the cabin? How big would it be? Does your husband have plans drawn, or purchased? Will he be doing the work himself? Starting this year? I don't know where you are but if you're in northern areas it might be getting too close to the time when digging and pouring footings is better left for warmer weather.

I'm guessing you're making a lot of plans to fill the greenhouse?

As to tomatoes, broccoli and spinach...are you thinking of starting them inside? If so, in SE Michigan, my mother started tomatoes and peppers in February under a 4 tiered lighting arrangement. Bottom heat was used for flower such as impatiens, and I think coleus. One year Mom had about 1000 tomato seedlings.

She began hardening them off in May. If you're in a warmer zone, you could probably start your plants later, but if you also are in a drier zone, you might want to get them out earlier so they can get started and set fruit before the dryness affects the taste.

What kind of tomatoes do you plan to grow? Will you be canning them, making sauce?

Are you familiar with potential problems such as damping off? I'm assuming you're also aware of hardening off when the plants are introduced to the outside and need to get acclimatized?

Linda22 grows some of her seedlings in cut off jugs (such as milk jugs). It's another way to start seeds for later outdoor planting.

I haven't grown broccoli in years and don't remember the specifics, i.e., whether or not they should be started in advance indoors. I'm guessing someone else here can help on that subject.

Spinach was just direct seeded in the spring, as soon as I could once there was no danger of frost. I've read that some varieties don't bolt as the older nonhybrid spinaches did. I think Malabar is one that can tolerate summer heat. It's been awhile since I've grown spinach but I want to start again, and I know there are some other varieties to try beyond the old standbys.

With spinach, I would probably plant every week so the crop is staggered. Same with lettuce, beans and peas. Otherwise you have massive amounts to pick and process.

I always enjoyed taking a basket and going out to the garden to pick the greens for a salad.

Yes my BUTTERFLY BUSHES are mulched. No I haven't planned my garden for next year. We're up on on a ridge, lots of shade, and the little flat land we have is used for horse pasture.

But I do have a question. We have a long, steep driveway with a nice grassy berm to one side. I've often thought it would be nice to plant some sort of hardy perennials along the drive that would survive the snow plowing and snow blowing.
We're talking about a 50 yard section about 3 to 5 feet wide that would get lots of summer sun. Ideas?

Garden Artist, gardening is exactly what I plan to do. It's one of the things I love the most. As soon as my husband and I are able to run away to our cabin in the woods...3 weeks, I'm hearing. He promises me a green house I hope I'm not taking on too much... I have gardened all my life...I want to force bulbs to give as gifts at Christmas time... Amaryllis are so gorgeous! Does anyone have any suggestions for how to do tomatoes, broccoli, spinach, etc I would like our diet to be comprised at least 30% from what we grow... But mainly to be surrounded by gorgeous flowers... Take a walk by the river with my beloved husband and be a million miles away from the caregiving that almost stole our lives from us. when I say we tried to get daddy settled somewhere safe for years, it is the understatement of the century. I hope to be able to someday let go of all of the guilt... It's easier to do when I remember that I came very close to being a widow last October when my 50 year old husband came home sweating profusly from another abuse session by my father and later suffered a massive heart attack. when we told my dad my husband's cardiologist said he needed to get rid of his cell phone if he wanted to survive long term, my dad's response was how do you know you even had a heart attack? the next day my dad called my husband's cell phone 10 times. Once was about his remote control for his television... Once was about a sink leaking. He even complained about a brown spot on his lawn...it was almost as though he expected my husband to stop by on his way home from the hospital and look at his sprinkler system.I can't begin to tell you all how completely wasteful it is to plant your seeds in unexalted ground...as long as I know in my heart we did everything we could to help him, I will happily run as fast as I can away from that dysfunctional cruel dynamic. Yes someday that dreaded phone call will come and we will deal with it then. Until then lots of walks lots of gardening lots of love for my husband, many Ducks games with our daughter and her sorority sisters...cruises in our 57 Chevy, even golf. We are going to start our golden years early at 50, because we have lived the last two decades in MISERY... dealing with caregiving for both of my parents, as I've said so many times before, it's our turn now! For those who haven't tried it, I'm sure there are very few, gardening is extremely therapeutic and calming. I highly recommend it.

Uh, oh, Windy's post reminds me of a movie I saw decades ago, one of those black and white movies that instilled fear perhaps because all the shadows prevented clear visualization of the people and scenery. It was about a woman who believed she turned into a cat at night, perhaps one of the movie precursors to all the movies where folks morphed into something not human at night then morphed back during the day and wondered why their clothes were shredded. Can't remember the name of the movie.

Okay, Windy, back to gardening. Did you get your Buddleias mulched? Have you planned your garden for next year? What, you say....planning now? ...Well, that's one of the exciting aspects about gardening. We can plan next year to correct mistakes made this year, or unexpected events such as droughts affecting our plants. And of course we can become excited every time we receive a gardening catalogue in the mail.

Is this thing morphing into a cat lady forum? Not that there's anything wrong with that.........

GA-I would only screen it. Our winters are mild with fog so it is very damp. We do get frost and sometimes a front from Alaska comes through bringing night time temps to 20's. My cat stays inside during the winter. The drought has our temps higher than normal. I sure hope we get rain and a good snow pack in the Sierras this winter.

Sharyn, your neighbors sound like antisocial people who don't really have much tolerance, for animals or children's natural, spontaneous playful activities. That's too bad; hopefully their daughter will grow up to be a more open and tolerant person.

A driveway border bed will be beautiful when highlighted by blue irises. It will also complement the house even though it might not necessary be that close to the actual structure.

I think screening in the patio to make a cat run would be a great idea. Kitty might explore the flower bed, but you could also plant some catnip there to make it special for him. If you put a cat box out, that might alleviate some of the flower garden exploring.

Catnip might be something to plant, but it's not large. I don't know offhand which plants are toxic to cats; it's been quite a few years since I had cats and coincidentally, even though I love the visiting cats, I hadn't thought about what might be toxic to them. I had completely forgotten about that, but I don't generally plant toxic plants anyway. Pokeweed grows naturally, so I'll be sure to watch that next year.

Would you be making your cat room an all weather room? That would increase the cost a lot compared to just screening it in and it might be that your cat wouldn't want to spend that much time outdoors in the cooler weather anyway, even if zone 9a doesn't get frigid weather as the more northern zones do.

I have a good idea who trapped him and they are not nice people. There backyard backs up to our backyard and when my son was around 3 years old, he would play in the backyard. Their daughter is a year or so older, they would pass a plastic tea cup back and forth through a knot hole in the fence, just playing as kids do. When her parents discovered this, they nailed a piece of wood over the knot hole!!!!!

I am in zone 9a. Current temps are in the 70's-80's during the day. I will most likely plant some in containers too. I have a rectangle bed that borders the driveway which is where most of them will be planted. I asked for the second week of November off (vacation), can plant then.

A bedroom that I use as an office has a large window that opens to the backyard, Below the window is a narrow flower bed that runs almost the length of our cement patio. I have thought of screening in the flowerbed adding shelving for walk ways so my cat could at least go out the window into this screened in area to enjoy the outdoors. Maybe plant a couple large non toxic plants that he can hide in. He would still have access to the inside. I would not feel comfortable letting him out when we are not home, in case someone tries to break in.

OMG - I just googled cat runs and cat enclosures - what an incredible array of cat facilities! Some of these are really high end enclosures. One even has a kitty fountain in lieu of a little pan or something for kitty to drink from. Some of these runs must cost well into the thousands of dollars.

One that particularly caught my eye was a bricked in enclosure with plants, along a sunny side of the house. Kitty could run back and forth on the run, climb up the side, and, well, we know what kitties do when they find plants and all that dirt.

120 irises! I am soooo in envy! And in envy of your strong back as you plant all these irises! Seriously, great find. I didn't think HD would still have bulbs.\
Were you aware that one catalogue company sells on both the retail and wholesale level? I used to buy wholesale quantities for bulbs and retail for plants.

Depending on your zone, I suppose you could probably plant some of the iris in containers for early and mass bloom next year, but I don't know how well they'd last once you transplant them.

Ooohhhh, I'm already getting anxious to plant for next year's garden!

Your neighbor trapped your cat? If he/she did so to protect her/him, I'd support that. But to trap and send a cat to a shelter is cruel. I think this neighbor must be a difficult person to be so hostile to cats.

Last year I saw an amazing structure - someone added a cat run for the family cat. It was literally a room all by itself, with fresh air, runs, cimbing facilities and everything an indoor cat would want if it could run freely outdoors.

I'll see if I can find the links to these; I know it's on my older computer that I still have.

On the subject of bulbs, I bought some Elephant Ears months ago, put them in my car and (duhhh) forgot to plant them, only discovering them when I cleaned the trunk a few days ago.

I know they're tropical and won't winter over, even in a garage. Any suggestions on the best way to winter them over inside? My basement is very, very damp, with a humidity level of 70% even with a dehumidifier on. I've tried peat moss in the past but it just holds the moisture in. Actually, I've never been able to overwinter anything in my basement. I may just have to sacrifice the bulbs to the compost pile.

If my house was larger, I'd plant them in containers, but just don't have the space for these giants.

Good News, LOL!! I found some Iris bulbs of all places...Home Depot (online only)!!. They are Dutch Iris Blue Magic. They come in a package of 120...wow, probably more that I can use, but will find a place for all the them somehow.

I used to let my cat out at his free will with a doggie door, however, he was trapped last year and taken to the shelter. It cost $30 to free him. I now only let him out on my days off work and only during the day. He is 12 years old now, a sweet 17 lb ginger cat. Color is very light actually...buff and white is what the vets call it. I wish I could let him out more but I can't afford to have him trapped by my neighbor (unknown to me) on a regular basis.

I'm really got my feline therapy this week.

I've just seen a beautiful light grey and white cat meandering up from the far end of the garden toward the house. When she was about 15' away, I started calling to her with a cat meow. Even though the windows were closed, she stopped, looked up, and seemed to have heard my call! Amazing, but I've always thought cats are incredibly smart, alert, responsive and creative mammals.

She followed my meows, coming up the house and looking up as if she actually knew the sounds were coming from inside, even though the window was closed. Then as she raised her tail and went into pounce mode, I realized she probably wasn't responding to me but rather the temptation of a tasty meal.

At any rate, I now have a new friend.

Last week I saw another sleek black full grown cat wandering through the back yard.

So far I have as my feline friends and visitors the neighbor's TortoiseShell, a younger less than 1 year old black kitty (their older full grown Maine Coon rarely visits), a full grown black cat, and now the grey and white visitor, who appears to be very pregnant.

Besides enjoying my guests, I do become annoyed that people are allowing their cats to wander around so freely in an area of my community in which there is so much traffic.

Mina, next year you can transplant one or more to a sunny location as a test to see whether or not they turn earlier. It's amazing how much shade can shelter foliage from the sun.

Well, GA....my burning bushes still are just beinning to turn....I still have hope but am beginnig to believe the lack of sunshine may well be the problem....

More amusement yesterday and today from the local felines...

I wrote sometime ago that the neighbor's tortoiseshell and the younger sleek black cat began a venture together in my garden, but the tortie decided she didn't want any company and chased her younger sibling back out of my yard.

I guess she wanted to be the sole queen of the mouse squad.

Yesterday I saw that younger sis has now assumed the role of queen of the squirrel squad, as I saw her go after a black squirrel and chase it out of the yard. She really seemed to enjoy herself, but I was glad she didn't climb the fence and follow it into a neighbor's yard, as some of them aren't very critter friendly.

Eventually she surveyed and staked out her own dominion, then suddenly bounded away up back to the house and next door into her own yard.

I recall that my cats used to have spurts of energy when they'd run up and down the stairs, jump up on the refrigerator, and literally zoom through the house. It was always so much fun to watch them.

Then today one of the neighbor's 3 cats came to visit my father's house. A very friendly and loving cat, she was definitely in the mood for attention, hoisting her back end up to be scratched, laying down and rolling in the leaves, snuggling up to have her head scratched, and purring all the time. She really was a sweetie.

Regardless of what might be stressing me out, just petting and playing with a friendly feline takes away all the tension.

Windy, since you're joined us on this forum, I'm confident you too will become a garden connoisseur, so I used the species name for butterfly bushes.

Anti-dessicants are used to protect plants from moisture loss when harsh winds beat them about during the winter, and the ground is frozen so the plants aren't taking in as much moisture. From what I've read, evergreens are especially vulnerable as they have so much foliage that doesn't die back.

CWillie raises an interesting point I missed - the foliage on your butterfly bush will probably join the exodus from other bushes and trees, and your bush will be left bare over the winter. The burlap corral (as these wraps sometimes resemble) will help it retain some moisture and dry out excessively.

If you do stake and wrap, leave plenty of space between the bushes and the stakes - I used to create a little corral around all my baby evergreens, leaving maybe 1.5 or so feet around the edge to allow for mulch and breathing space. The evergreens at that point were probably no more than a foot tall.

It varies, though, and especially in your are where I'm assuming you get a lot of strong winds from Lakes Michigan and Superior.

You could also use the beach fencing that I've seen on some dunes.

LOL Buddleias are butterfly bushes Windy. They are probably going to die back to the ground like perennials where you live, so just be sure to mulch them well this Fall. And they are kind of slow to get started in the Spring, so don't give up on them too early next year.

Buddleias? Anti dessicant buffer?

Windy, mulch your buddleias well, very, very well. You can also create a wind and anti-dessicant buffer by putting in stakes to create a circle around the bushes; wrap burlap around the stakes, leave a decent sized space around each bush so that it isn't smothered by mulch, and add oak leaves inside. They don't decompose as easily as other leaves do and will last longer, especially in an Antarctic type winter environment like Northern Michigan and the UP have.

Oh, you will let go, trust me. If you get into the wiring in your house it's likely to be 120 Volts Alternating current. It pulses 60 times per second, hence 60 cycle term, and is for all practical purposes continuous. If hubby tosses you the hair dryer in the tub the voltage and current keep flowing. Your heart and other internal organs do not like their electrons being rearranged by electricity. Your muscles tend to lock up making it very hard to hand the hair dryer back to hubby and you can die.

An electric fence is direct current and it pulses, on and off. It's a very high voltage because in some cases the electricity has to travel for miles, but it's very low current which is the electrical property that kills you. The fence charger has a capacitor which is like a battery, the capacitor charges up, fires, then recharges about once oer second. When you grab the fence wire you get shocked at a very low current and then it goes away and you pull your hand away very quickly. It hurts but won't kill you. I don't think......

So there you have it: everything you've always wanted to know about electric fences but were afraid to ask.

Send, I can't lift things as heavy as I usta could but my wife keeps me around anyway. My motto used to be: I may not be very smart or handsome but I can lift heavy things.........

Btw, I planted some butterfly bushes beside my new tractor shed this spring and they came in like gangbusters. I wonder if they'll survive the long winter up here.

Garden, you mentioned having to appease mother nature with flowers and stuff for the critters to eat? Hold on a minute while I go and ask the burning bush.

Windy, glad you made it over to the therapy site. I don't have a rocking chair, do have a husband (a fellar), he can't lift heavy things so he leaves the heavier bicycle at home; our dog was well trained and housebroken, and could you tell me what happens if someone does not let go of an electric pulse fence?

GA-I cant find any Iris bulbs, they are all sold out. I should have started looking in August/ September. I had no idea they were so popular. Thank you for the website. Schreiner's and Springhill Nursery are sold out too. Bulbs Direct has some but a little pricey at $4.50 each bulb. I will look online some more tonight after work. I want purple or blue but may have to wait until next year.

GA....first, to answer your Q from yesterday re: berries in the winter on my serviceberries.....Alas, no, even in fall.....I see no more berries.....kinda bums me out but glad you asked....I am now aware....wonder if these plants are M/F and have to be planted as such to propagate (like hollies).....I'll have to look into it....
Second....Windy....you know a whole lot about all this general " gardening" stuff....I'm generally a "try whatever....see how it works out" person....(usually, not the greatest result, lol)...BUT, you are correct.....great thread....stay w/us.....thirdly....GA....wow....you have no deer? I have lots of deer (and this is probably NOT GOOD for them)....they run thru my backyard (backs up to woods)...and also out front...in fact, I've seen them (along w/my neighbors) just trotting down our street....more than once....

I wouldn't need cannons to create loud booms. One of the neighbors likes sports and turns up the radio to full blast during football season. His house is a good 200' away from mine and I can hear the plays being called out in my dining room. Maybe he should go into the animal scaring business.

Between that and a poor lonely dog that's left outside for about an hour at a time, and who barks constantly every time I go back in that area of the yard, I don't worry too much about critters.

I wasn't aware that the fences were pulse systems. I have visions of someone grabbing them, being stuck and unable to let loose and being electrocuted violently like in some of those horror or crime movies.

There are some plants that don't interest deer, and I believe I've read of plants that do repel them. In my area, we don't have any deer, so they haven't been an issue. Actually it would be exciting to see some, so I'd probably just plant extra for them.

Hey guys! This is a really cool thread. You guys know lots of stuff! I'm kind of a gardening dunce but after reading some previous posts I thought you may find some of the northern MI ag stuff interesting.

I'm up in the far north western tip of MI. It's cherries, apples and vineyards up here. We have everything from the family farm with a couple of orchards to the really big guys with hundreds of acres.

The discussions of critter control interests me. We used to put out small kitchen gardens but lost the battle very quickly to the deer and raccoons. So we gave up and just buy our produce at a farm stand down the road. Let him do all the work. But here's some stuff the farmers and gardeners do up here to fend off the critters.

The vineyard guys, large and small, drape all the vines with tight mesh netting as the fruit ripens, otherwise the birds, deer and coons would get it all. I see people also do this with berry bushes. Farmers even use orchard cannons which are propane powered and make loud booms to scare off birds and deer. I feel very soon for the retirees who bought the place next to these guys.

For veggie gardens up here you gotta have a rabbit and deer proof fence. The conventional method is posts and chicken wire but that's a pain if you have a large garden. Deer can jump an 8 foot fence if you have stuff they really like. Coons will dig under. Serious gardeners use electric fences similar to what I use for our horse pastures. A primer:

Electric fences don't kill people, pets or wild animals but if any of the latter ever come in contact with an electric fence they will never touch it again. This applies to the higher functioning critters like me, down to a possum with a brain the size of a pea.

The reason electric don't kill is its a pulse system. It charges in pulses so if you grab the wire the voltage goes away in the next second, you scream, jump back and vow to never do that again. Critters have the same reaction. We rarely turn our horse fence on any more. Our boys both got bit years ago and won't even get close. I even have some pasture with fake elec wire. It's not hooked up to anything but the horses ain't taking any chances.

For gardens the wires need to be closer to the ground, think racoon height. And keep the weeds trimmed to not interfere with the wires. You can get chargers that plug into an outlet but you can also get solar
chargers that work just as well. I used a solar charger on a small out of the way pasture for several years. I think it cost about $80.

You can get the stuff at farm stores like Tractor Supply or a bunch of on line sites, and there's plenty of instructional stuff on line. If you have a hubby, sig O, or anyone who likes to tinker with a little engineering tell them how much it would mean to you to have a nice electric fence. That's what my wife does and it works every time. I find myself getting into all sorts of challenging stuff. Some work, others.....don't want to talk about it.......