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I and my sister were providing in home care for our mother with dementia and disability factors. We did not want to place her into the Nursing facility but it became a necessity due to her combative nature and her disability has now confined her to a wheelchair. My question is, should I move her to another Nursing facility after she has been for over a year now in this same facility? She has finally stopped asking us to take her home. It was quite an adjustment for her and us to place her in the facility.
The thing is both I and my sister are unhappy with the treatment that she is receiving at this time in the facility she is in. Examples include but are not limited to: when she first moved in she was asked to give her consent to sign her bank account over to the facility Nursing home and change her bank over to theirs without informing us, the facility is constantly doing things that are insubordinate, they won't return my calls, and when asked for details concerning mother I usually get the run around, she fell about a week ago which has been a constant here lately and was taken to the hospital and we never received a call about it. In fact how we found out When we went to visit her and her arm was all bandaged. She has fallen before and had to have stitches on her face in several places. Now she is unable to see from her left eye. I know that the instability is part of the dementia but we want to be informed about it and answers to what had went on in the emergency room. My concern is my mother. Will the move be to much for her? I have made complaints to management but things continue to happen. Please help!

Get in touch with your state's LTC ombudsman and report what you have stated here. They will investigate. What you describe here should not be happening.

I have found the Medicare website our Medicaid website to be a wealth of information. (https://www.cms.gov)
Here's a link to get you started. Find your state & file a complaint.
https://www.medicare.gov/talk-to-someone

And here is a list of her (and your) rights. https://downloads.cms.gov/medicare/your_resident_rights_and_protections_section.pdf
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Reply to Maggie61r
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I would be furious beyond belief if they had taken. Y mother to hospital and never told me!
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Reply to Mjlarkan
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I don't know if changing would be a good idea however it would seem that this NH should be reported for everything you say has happened, sorry I don't know who to report to other than the state abudsman (?) . Let the NH you are reporting the issues at hand and that if things continue you may have to take legal action which no one really wants to do cause they never know what could happen to their loved one. IF nothing changes, contact a lawyer to find out what your options are to help others that are possibly also having the same issues but no one has handled. Then you might have to and should remove your mom from this facility........but maybe only change after the abudsman(?) hasn't provided any help...then move your mom and then file charges against the home, but make sure you document EVERYTHING..........wishing you luck.
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Reply to wolflover451
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Yes for her physical safety and financial safety move her.
Have as many failiar things with her like placement of the room and items so that she will feel more familiar with the new place.
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Reply to DJ9876543
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Absolutely move her. Accept that the falls are going to happen no matter where she lives. But not informing you isn’t acceptable. My mother spent 4 years in NH care. We were never asked for banking info and had regular care conferences where any issues were addressed
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Reply to Daughterof1930
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Is this a State Run Facility? Did you go through the courts and declare that you were no longer caring, in any capacity, for your mother? In other words, is your mother paying for her care or did you have to file for Medicaid in order to afford Nursing Home Care?

If she does not have Medicaid then that means she pays the bill (with family assistance as required). This is called "self pay", then the facility has NO right to her bank/checking account information. Do you or your siblings have a POA or DPOA or MPOA. I would contact a Senior Advocate Agency and get some answers in a hurry.

I would also report this facility. They are either over stepping their rights, scamming, or just did not explain your and your mothers right concerning her care. Something does not feel right in all this. Again the Senior Advocate Agency is a good starting point for answers.

Good Luck and God Bless
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Reply to Angelheart2
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Imho, you should have removed your mother from this nursing home YESTERDAY. Please retain an elder law attorney STAT. This facility needs to be reported to the proper authorities as fraudulent.
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Reply to Llamalover47
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Please move her asap. But make sure that you know the rules of the facility. Normally ( as per my personal experience) they have a clause, when you signed your mom's admission, that you have to give them 30 days notice. So make sure you find out before you do. The lady I take care of has been in many facilities in the last 7 years and some of them for more than a year. And before you give them the notice ( most of them want it in writing) make sure you already find another facility that will work with you. If you are the caregiver or POA, the facility ( depending of the states) has to inform you of any falls, or any other incidents that happen to your mom. Best wishes.
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Reply to Frenchcan
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You also might benefit from an attorney specializing in elder legal issues.
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Reply to NancyIS
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Absolutely move her!! Medicare has a website that rates nursing care facilities, hospices, etc. The first two places my brother was in earned their one star ratings for sure. One lost all his belongings including his phone and wallet. Eventually after two months they found them. I searched for SNFs that had a minimum overall 3 star rating with 4 or 5 patient care rating. Once my brother was in hospice I gave the social worker my list and she called around.

He’s now in a 3 star facility with a 5 star patient care rating and it shows. I put him in hospice since I wanted him to be comfortable instead of suffering through radiation and chemo for a large glioblastoma. He has improved and it’s been a far more pleasant experience for his 22 year old daughter to deal with. The billing office isn’t dodging me, his surroundings are much nicer and my niece can see her dad anytime. Medicare wouldn’t pay for his transport—he could barely walk at the time—but with assistance at both places she was able to move him.

While you are not directly involved in her day to day care, you are still a caregiver. Worrying about her care, wondering when the next call comes in about another problem, all takes a toll on you. Since we moved him life is better. I hope you can move her to a better place.
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Reply to katepaints
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Maggie61r Jul 22, 2021
Yes they do have a comparison website! It's https://www.medicare.gov/care-compare/
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Your mother has dementia and is disabled. The nursing home is not taking good care of her even with her overall nature and problems. Yes, you have every right in the world, if you so choose, to put her in another home. I would not worry about the readjustment. She has dementia and will act out - just ignore it. Her safety and well being are more important and she must be where they can control her behavior without harming her. Don't wait - do it and look the other way if she acts up about the move.
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Reply to Riley2166
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You are the "customer.". You can choose where to spend your money.
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Reply to RedVanAnnie
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Get her out of there! These people do not care about your mother!!! Management there will not care, they only care about money not people!

PLEASE GET HER OUT OF THERE ASAP!
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Reply to FamilyNeeded
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I moved my Mom after a year. I was unhappy with care, frequent falls & trouble with roommate. Actually a home that has been the first one I saw & put her bane on the waiting list called & said they had an opening. All rooms are private & she’s 45 minutes one way closer to me. It was an adjustment for about a month but then she settled in ok
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Reply to Lostinva
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Given the current NH doesn't contact you when "accidents" happen (how does one confined to a wheelchair have so many falls?) and getting consent from someone with dementia to access/sign over their bank account would be killers for me! Addressing the issue multiple times with no resolution provides the finishing touches.

Before moving her, check out several places. Ask many questions and ensure that you would be allowed to visit anytime without prior notice. Hopefully now that so many are vaccinated, access should be allowed and hopefully they would allow you access at other times to "check" the place. Note whatever you can, how others are cared for, whether they are left sitting unattended, left in their rooms, check at mealtimes, use your nose to check odors, etc. The more you can check before making a decision, the better.

While she may or may not experience a decline, my bigger concern would be for her care and to reduce the falls. While falls are to be expected with many, being in a wheelchair, this would be distressing to me and bad for mom!

It is true that many NHs were understaffed before the virus, and that has continued to be an issue (even vet offices are sorely understaffed at this time!) Even finding in-home care-givers is becoming/already was an issue.

If mom's room can be set up in a similar fashion, it should reduce any confusion after a move. She's in a wheelchair, so it's not like she'd get lost on her own - they should be wheeling her to activities and meals. Staff might be new/unfamiliar, but with short term memory loss typical with dementia, she might not even know one care-giver from another anyway.

Any setback or unfamiliarity with staff would be secondary to poor care. Do your best to scope out a new place and move her!

(despite what some think/post, not all facilities are the same.)
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Reply to disgustedtoo
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I had to move my grandma from one nursing home for poor treatment and inconvenience for me. She had dementia and never knew she moved. I just visited the same time as always and she was happy
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Reply to Buffytwmo49
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Trust your gut!!!
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Reply to eldestchildof3
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Absolutely! My Mom was in 3 different facilities last year during Covid. Moved from AL to rehab/nursing care after a hospital stay, then to a wonderful Memory Care.

The rehab place was horrible and we scrambled to move her out of there. The staff was great but the facility was sold soon after she moved in and I just didn’t like how difficult it was to get in touch with the staff. We were not allowed inside so the only monitoring I could do was thru the window. I realize conditions were hard for everyone but I did not have good vibes about Mom being there.

Yes, it is difficult for a dementia patient to be moved around but the change in Mom was immediate. We were allowed to move her own furniture and things into her room and the staff arranged her transport and let us sit outside and visit for a while before she was admitted. Instead of being left in bed or a wheelchair all day the new place insisted that resident be outside their rooms and engaged as much as possible throughout the day. We were able to visit through a screen window and later inside across a table. She enjoyed the food and crafts especially.

Sadly she was exposed to Covid after Thanksgiving and succumbed to the virus. But I am glad that her last few months were happy.

The reality is that most of the care facilities are for-profit entities and for the employees it's just a job. You will have wonderful caring aids and nurses a long side ones who put in the hours and do the bare minimum.

In Ohio if a resident falls unattended they are required to be sent to the ER. Mom kept getting out of bed in the night and falling. After several trips to the ER and a couple of black eyes and stitches we finally had her bed lowered at night so if she did try to get up she would only roll out onto the floor mats by her bed. Any time she had a fall I would get a call letting me know the circumstances.

And I can’t believe ANY reputable facility would require you to give them access to her bank account. I set up an automatic withdrawal for fees but got separate bills for any other service they provided.
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Reply to Frances73
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You need to be able to trust the management! staffing ratios are a different issue. Please move her - she will adjust - my mother amazed me with her resiliency and adaptability. Work with a Care Management company or an Elder Attny to help you find the right place - they know the reputations of the local facilities - and they can advise you about what is appropriate regarding bank accounts etc....
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Reply to dianelisa
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This is a tough one, cuz she’s finally settled in…

HOWEVER….get her the hell out!! The facility is TOTALLY out of line!! Not telling you, that she had fallen & taken to the hospital?? Unacceptable!!

If her insurance allows it, move her to an AFH (Adult Family Home). Much better care (not always) so look around!

I feel for you! Best of luck!!
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Reply to tf110862
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You will most likely find that all Nursing Homes are about the same as far as care goes as they're all understaffed.

Nursing Homes are only a last resort when someone doesn't have family able or willing to take care of them.

Do you have POA for your mom?

Did you ask the Nursing Home why they wanted your mom's Bank Information?

Have you gone over her monthly statements to see if any money has been withdrawn?

Are you on your mom's Bank Account?

If so, take most of the money out and put in another account for mom and just leave $100.

Is your mom in the Nursing Home being paid by Medicare or Medicaid?

DI'd you check with a few other Nursing Homes to see if the patient is required to give their Bank Account info to them?

You can always check with the Aging Dept with questions and I would also check to see if they've been any complaints filed on this Nursing Home.

Ask your mom how she likes it there.

Ask your mom if she would like to visit another Nursing Home.

If I had no other choice but a Nursing Home, I would choose one that would allow a Camera in her room so I can see how she is treated at least in her room.

My 97 yr old Dad is staying in his own home with 24 7 Caregivers.

I have Nest Cameras installed to be able to see all the parts of his home that he goes to.

I feel so much better being able to watch him anytime 24 7 from my laptop or cell phone.

He has Dementia and can't remember more than a few minutes.

When he's got a bruise or whatever, after their explanation, I can always back the Nest Camera Recording up fir the last 30 days and see and hear what happened.
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Reply to bevthegreat
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tf110862 Jul 11, 2021
Great reply!! Loved everything you brought up!! And the cameras!! Genius!!
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Unfortunately, the reality of today is (according to news reports) that long-term care facilities are having problems finding adequate staff due to the impacts of COVID. You don't want to move her and then have similar issues at the next facility. Facilities can look and sound good during an initial visit. Problems may not be apparent until someone is living there. If she is on Medicaid, you might need to consult with the state agency handling Medicaid to make sure coverage would continue. That said, it certainly doesn't hurt to look around. Also, voice your concerns to management of the facility where she currently lives - both to the manager of the facility and to the corporate office if it is a chain.
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Reply to annandpaul1629
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Absolutely move her to another facility!!! They are supposed to call you when going to ER. I can honestly recommend rui.net facilities. They took great care of my mom for the 4 years she was with them. Amazing staff
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Reply to Nbrlady
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When my mom was still living with me I was fortunate enough to have a 6 hour block of respite time where I could get completely away. Things began to go wrong when one of mom's caregivers was there - except for several falls everything was relatively minor and I still can't say with any certainty that there was something wrong with this caregiver, people on the forum reasoned with me that falls happen even with the best of care. But I began to distrust her and asked for someone different, I just told the agency she wasn't a good fit. The falls stopped and the weird little things stopped too. Sometimes accidents happen, and sometimes you are getting bad vibes for a reason. If you have another good option I would move her.
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Reply to cwillie
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It would not be inappropriate, but it may unsettle her. The actions of this facility sound to be totally our of order. I would consult an elder lawyer and consider reporting the facility to the authorising authority. I have to admit I am not sure how come this facility is behaving as if they have POA and making financial changes to her account. Its a pity you don't have POA and you won't be able to get it now - would it be worth considering "putting her in the hands of " the courts - maybe something to ask the lawyer.
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Reply to TaylorUK
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BurntCaregiver Jul 11, 2021
TaylorUK,

A move to a different nursing home will very likely unsettle her. It has to be done though.
The facility engages in underhanded and illegal actions in their business practices practices. They downright lie about accidents and injuries to residents, even when they're caught.
What the hell goes on with the actual patient care in such a place? What kind of corners are they cutting every day when no one is looking?
The mother will get over being unsettled by a move and will adapt. She should not be left in such a facility one second longer than she has to be.
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I am not sure why they are getting your mother with cognitive issues to sign over any accounts, that does not sound right. Usually, having any problems with memory renders one unable to consent knowingly, thus the reason why DPOA POAs are used. If you or sister placed her there then you have a contract where the nursing home is responsible for certain care and giving you any changes to your mother's care plan, especially if your mother cannot give this herself, might be something look for, and if not there, request a family meeting with Nursing Director, Social Worker, Nurse manager of the area where your mother resides and any staff who is pertinent to her daily care. You might want to also know Medical Director of said Nursing Home who can walk in doing rounds, dictate what should occur with plan of care, and due to having too many patients m, not enough time, calling family will be last on the list of priorities.

I would be concern as I had a case where a wife left her spouse in a skilled facility for a few days, he felled, she was not told, she arrived to get him and only told because he was no longer the same person, meaning his "fall" was not witnessed, and no one knows about loss of consciousness or how long, she took a viable man for skilled care, brought out a man with cognitive changes that actually never got better, and she was now taking care of all of his needs.

If you fear issues, you might state you want changes or prior to pandemic, many families would hire sitters as companions to their cognitively impaired loved ones. Do not know if you both trialed these things before placing her in a home, or not.

Lowing your ability to control things in your life brings fear to many, yet it is not discussed prior to actually going through it with your loved ones. Many do not great relationships prior to these changes, so now one has in their mind the child that do not loved them controlling what many feel is nothing of what they wanted.

Look at what you have with your mother. Did you both have a great relationship with her, does she trust you, did she feel loved by you? Family continue to think it is about doing the right thing, but I would be fearful of my children if they just come in to tell me what and where I am going yet I could not recall them spending anytime with me prior to these changes.

Remember. We all need to treat our loved ones with compassion and care especially if they were there for you and did the best they could for you. If you did not this given and cannot provide, please tell your aging parents to make their plans with Geriatric Specialists, Case Managers specializing in these matters, and please see attorneys, one can do all of this planning ahead of time without emotions and possibly get a better outcome when Courts are involved and Trustee assigned.

Mowing her to another place should occur only if you have found and been given a bed for sure, you have raised every issue in writing this time with the Director of Nursing, toured the placement, know where her room would be, found out how they report falls, alert that patient is falls risk, do rounds with medical Director, who is this person by name, does he or she visit each patient or call in to allow nurse to tell them what is going on with patient? You need to know when do they call for transport to remove patient for immediate care, and who calls family? Read the Contract closely, and establish better visits "without" stating you are coming. Be very good to staff and get them to trust you, the more you are, the more people care for your loved one. Talk to mom about it all, she is there do not do things as if she is not present, everyone gives up when they no longer care. "Adult Failure to Thrive" is really a diagnosis often used with dementia patients who also have significant depression and these diseases become progressive to Terminal.
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Reply to Allye1
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Move her. Do your due diligence look at resident to aide ratios, ask lots of questions , visit at odd times. Bank account would’ve been enough for me.
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Reply to AT1234
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YES! Move her now and contact a lawyer.
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Reply to Taarna
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Move your mother to another care facility as soon as possible. Find one that's reputable because the one she's in now obviously isn't.
She will adapt to it well enough.
The nursing home she's in had no right to transfer her funds into their bank account without the written consent of her POA. She had dementia and can no longer make that decision.
Do not allow the next nursing home you place her in any access to her banking information. Do not give them her social security number either. Never allow a nursing home or memory care or whatever nursing homes are called these days, access to any of this information.
Insist that they send you a written bill every month that you pay by cashier's check from the bank (that is if she's not on Medicaid yet). Also insist that if you're unable to visit weekly, that you want a wellness call from them every week to keep you informed.
In the meantime, if you're her POA, open all new bank accounts and have her funds diverted to the new ones. Stop allowing the nursing home access to this information.
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Reply to BurntCaregiver
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I thought they had to notify the family when they had to go to the hospital. My husbands nursing facility never had us sign over the bank acct. I do understand you not wanting to change nursing homes because your mom is familiar with the staff etc but you may need to look at somewhere else.
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Reply to bfuller54
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BurntCaregiver Jul 10, 2021
bfuller54,

By law in most states they're supposed to inform the family when there's an incident or someone goes to the hospital. Non-reputable nursing homes ask for the bank account info. Never give it.
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