Mother put me as sole owner on the deed to her home but still lives in home and has paid the taxes, maintenance, etc. until 2 weeks ago when she had a massive stroke. She is currently in rehab, and on her behalf, I am applying for her acceptance into LISVH, a skilled nursing home in Long Island, NY. Am also going to apply for Medicaid and know they can take a portion of the home as reimbursement if owned by her, but again, I am only one on deed and officially the owner, not her. If she does not hold title, does it matter that she pays the taxes?
Please pls read and reread what GuestShoppe and AMZebb have posted. GuestShoppe nail it right away on sensing this was a “Life Estate” and AmZebb on the nuances of what LE / life tenancy can mean for how NYC region Medicaid views it. Big shout out to both of them on this. That house titled as LE/LT in my understanding means you on your own do NOT own it…. you have a % interest of the ownership if sold b4 her death. You don’t own till she dies.
imo NH was asking abt taxes paid by mom as they are trying to figure out if mom is paying another’s taxes or her correct share based on its legal ownership. If you told them “you own it”, that’s gifting by mom and will be an issue for her LTC Medicaid eligibility. They are looking for clarification b4 they place her in a Medicaid Pending bed.
To me, issues you will face decision making on, are 3 fold:
1. financial impact of your mom having to do required Share of Cost of her income to the facility as her SOC/resident liability
2. logistics of dealing w/property in LI from your homebase in ATL
3. MERP aka estate recovery
On the first, when mom goes Medicaid Pending then full LTC Medicaid eligible, she is required to have almost all her monthly income paid to NH as her Share of Cost. All she can retain is a sm Personal Needs Allowance which varies by State. Could be mere $40. PNA restricted spending so cannot be used for anything that obstensibly LTC Medicaid pays for. So cannot be used on anything “house” as Medicaid covers her room&board. All property costs - taxes, insurance, utilities, repairs, yard, etc - will be on POA &/or family to pay & beyond mom's grave. Go over moms financials to see how much at a minimum her annual costs are, then add 25%….. can you afford this without any impact to your own costs of living in GA? If her homestead exemption is pulled as she no longer resides there, property taxes will increase substantially. Enabling a parent or elder to retain their home, to me, is like you have a 2nd home to pay for, but one you do not actually yet own, so there is risk. Having 2nd home for most of us is flat not feasible financially.
On #3, I say “beyond the grave” due to #3 MERP, as you will be in some way dealing with it (NYS MERP aka Estate Recovery). Even if a Trust, an LE, a Lady Bird Deed (for States that do these), whatever ownership the property is titled as as per Co tax records, MERP will still be involved. MERP will send out a questionnaire. If the property has exclusions, exemptions, etc then no claim or lien done. But till that happens, transferring the property will be sticky as there will be this subterranean cloud on the title due to MERP being a factor that exists. Dealing with this imho not really DIY, so need atty based in the Co where house is.
2. if you live in Atlanta dealing with empty house on Long Island will be challenging. You are not able get in your car with supplies, drive and be there quickly & ready to deal with the latest problem. That NY-2-GA distance imo cries out for property management co or a trusted & willing neighbor to do oversight imho. Add this cost in.
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So if it is just not feasible for at least 3-4 years (avg stay in a Nh 2.5 years), realistically sell it. Mom doesn’t come with an expiration date, could be 6 mos or 6 years. Have to be able to do unknown eventuality beyond her death and MERP to own the house.
If it is in a LE, imo you as her POA will need - in addition to elder law atty to deal with Medicaid aspects -a Real Estate atty or one who knows how to deal with how the ownership “remainderman” that factor in to how ownership proceeds from a sale get done. Not a DIY.
Please pls read and reread what GuestShoppe and AMZebb have posted. GuestShoppe nail it right away on sensing this was a “Life Estate” and AmZebb on the nuances of what LE / life tenancy can mean for how NYC region Medicaid views it. Big shout out to both of them on this. That house titled as LE/LT in my understanding means you on your own do NOT own it…. you have a % interest of the ownership if sold b4 her death. You don’t own till she dies.
imo NH was asking abt taxes paid by mom as they are trying to figure out if mom is paying another’s taxes or her correct share based on its legal ownership. If you told them “you own it”, that’s gifting by mom and will be an issue for her LTC Medicaid eligibility. They are looking for clarification b4 they place her in a Medicaid Pending bed.
To me, issues you will face decision making on, are 3 fold:
1. financial impact of your mom having to do required Share of Cost of her income to the facility as her SOC/resident liability
2. logistics of dealing w/property in LI from your homebase in ATL
3. MERP aka estate recovery
On the first, when mom goes Medicaid Pending then full LTC Medicaid eligible, she is required to have almost all her monthly income paid to NH as her Share of Cost. All she can retain is a sm Personal Needs Allowance which varies by State. Could be mere $40. PNA restricted spending so cannot be used for anything that obstensibly LTC Medicaid pays for. So cannot be used on anything “house” as Medicaid covers her room&board. All property costs - taxes, insurance, utilities, repairs, yard, etc - will be on POA &/or family to pay & beyond mom's grave. Go over moms financials to see how much at a minimum her annual costs are, then add 25%….. can you afford this without any impact to your own costs of living in GA? If her homestead exemption is pulled as she no longer resides there, property taxes will increase substantially. Enabling a parent or elder to retain their home, to me, is like you have a 2nd home to pay for, but one you do not actually yet own, so there is risk. Having 2nd home for most of us is flat not feasible financially.
On #3, I say “beyond the grave” due to #3 MERP, as you will be in some way dealing with it (NYS MERP aka Estate Recovery). Even if a Trust, an LE, a Lady Bird Deed (for States that do these), whatever ownership the property is titled as as per Co tax records, MERP will still be involved. MERP will send out a questionnaire. If the property has exclusions, exemptions, etc then no claim or lien done. But till that happens, transferring the property will be sticky as there will be this subterranean cloud on the title due to MERP being a factor that exists. Dealing with this imho not really DIY, so need atty based in the Co where house is.
2. if you live in Atlanta dealing with empty house on Long Island will be challenging. You are not able get in your car with supplies, drive and be there quickly & ready to deal with the latest problem. That NY-2-GA distance imo cries out for property management co or a trusted & willing neighbor to do oversight imho. Add this cost in.
********
So if it is just not feasible for at least 3-4 years (avg stay in a Nh 2.5 years), realistically sell it. Mom doesn’t come with an expiration date, could be 6 mos of 6 years. You have to be able to do that eventuality to get beyond her death and MERP to own the house.
If it is in a LE, imo you as her POA will need - in addition to an elder law atty to deal with the Medicaid aspects -a Real Estate atty or one who knows how to deal with how the ownership shakes out. LE have “remainderman” that factor in to how the % ownership proceeds from a sale get divided.
I handled Moms placement in LTC and do not remember having to give them this kind of info. I just showed them she had money for 2 months of private pay and that Medicaid was being applied for. Medicaid started paying the 3rd month.
Since the house was turned over to you 9 yrs ago, then Medicaid can do no recovery. I assume that the agreement that she pay taxes and upkeep are in writing. When you use a regular lawyer, they have no idea about Medicaid law. As suggested, I would consult with an Elder Lawyer.
I just looked up LISVH. Was your Mom a Vet or Dad? If Mom wasn't, it may take a longtime to get her into a Veterans home. I live in South Jersey and my friend had to place her husband into a regular LTC facility until something opened up at the Vet home. He passed before that happened. Those men who have service related medical problems usually have priority. You may have to place Mom someplace else.
When we were dealing with my mom and MIL for LTC Medicaid, each NH had a list of documents that Medicaid wanted submitted. The list varied as to its wording but basically all came down to the same requested and required items. NHs reviewed it before they submitted the applicants packet along with their own room&board bill. They know what appears sketchy or are downright red flags flying for eligibility and know if the resident is referring to things that could be an issue for eligibility.
For my MIL, a most difficult woman, she would go in detail about her home and past homes & past lifestyle (vacay on the QE2). Well she in fact did not own “her home”; it was owned by her decade older brother who did this out of his familial responsibility relationship along with a stipend. His largess - including paying insurance and taxes - did not extend at all as to how his children felt about her. Once they took over as coPOA for him, as he declined, MIL booted out under 30 day certified letters sent & it was sold. Zero $ to her. Of course the NH had ?s on this. Hubs detailed the saga to admissions. That was fun.
The NH have to make sure there are no gifting issues that they can foresee as they don’t want to get saddled with impoverished resident ineligible for LTC Medicaid.
It seems ruthless but a lot of States LTC Medicaid pay less than the operating costs for a custodial care bed. TX just revised their LTC Medicaid Nursing Facility rates and for some categories of nursing groups, its as low as $164.25 day rate which includes $21.58 dietary cost per day.
The nursing home does not have to know how much rent your mother paid to you. It's none of their business and you don't have to tell them. Medicaid will want to know how long you've been the owner of the house. If it's for as long as the Medicaid look-back period goes or longer, it will be fine. They may want to know how much RENT your mother was paying to you while she lived there. Call this money for the taxes RENT because that's what it is.
If your mother set it up in a lifetime tenancy deed. Even if she has lifetime use, that doesn't mean it's free. She would still have to pay rent, share in utilities, and share in the taxes.
Unless the Deed is written as a Right to use life tenant deed, which stipulates that all taxes and maintenance of the house will be paid for by your mother, she has been gifting the money within NYS Medicaid Long Term Care regulations. That is unless the checks or payments were under $2,000 each. This is the threshold that NYS Medicaid requires support documentation for the application process. Any payments or checks $1,999 will not be questioned unless there is a pattern of them. Any payments over $2,000 or a pattern of the same amount repeatedly will need the receipt(s) that equal the payment or withdrawal.
Due to the complexity of Medicaid Long Term Care rules it is best to consult with an attorney rather than tackle this on your own. This expense will be paid from your mothers funds and is an Medicaid LTC allowed expense and will apply towards her spend down for her to get to the threshold of $32,396 if considered single.
Yes, the deed is written as a right to use life tenant deed... her idea and she insisted. I live in Atl and have my own home but m currently with her in NY and trying to navigate the nightmare of paperwork to get her the best services I can.
Medicaid will not have expected the mother to live for free because she has a lifetime tenancy on her former house. The taxes can be called rent. The OP needs to get a lawyer who will make up a legal document explaining that there was an agreement that instead of paying rent once a month she paid the property taxes instead. Just keep track of every cent she paid out.
Medicaid is not going to go looking to the electric and gas company for what the mother paid out in utilities. Or to the cable company, the sewer or garbage collection tax, or the water bill. These are bills that a person pays wherever they live unless they are included in their RENT. The mother doesn't own the house anymore, so she going to be paying something to somebody. Be it rent or rent in the form of property taxes. This is how you get around the "gifting" with Medicaid.
In hindsight , what may have been a good solution would have been a rental lease drawn up by a lawyer for Mom paying you rent for living in the home .
For the Medicaid lookback , It also may matter how long ago the house was put in your name .
You need a lawyer familiar with Medicaid