If you were lucky enough to belong to a family that was mentally healthy and happy and all that--you wouldn't even know websites like this existed. You'd assume that everyone's life was as great as yours. You grow up, part from your parents yet maintain healthy and loving boundaries. Families don't squabble. An aging parent needs helps and it is quietly and lovingly taken care of.
Sounds like fantasyland, I know, but I actually DO know quite a few families just like this. I stand in awe of whatever it is in them that makes them tick. The only thing I can think of is unconditional love--everyone of these families has and demonstrates it to all the members of the family--and beyond.
I'm fortunate enough to see them as examples of how I wanted my family to be raised. So far, so good. Of course the teen years were rough, but all my kids are happily married and with their own families. Considering what both my hubby and I came from, as examples, it shouldn't be this way--we are just supremely lucky to have realized a LOT of the dynamics from each of our families was sick and wrong. We've worked hard not to make the same mistakes.
I could be wrong, It could totally be luck. (we both had very troublesome mothers who left us each with a lot of emotional scars. Needless to say, they are not on our top list of priorities, simply b/c they are just too toxic to have around. Sad, very sad. I hope I never get referred to as "toxic". Or one of my kids freezes me out permanently.
Midkid, that won't happen because your kids are functional and your relationship is probably such that they tell you if you over step. So they won't let it build to the toxic level. When one gets to the point of low or no contact, it's because the parent didn't/wouldn't listen to the many requests for change by the adult child. They drive everyone away and then have no idea why no one calls. Profoundly sad.
Some parents reap what they sow. If a father hires a lawyer for a deadbeat drug addict dad to sue your own daughter for custody it’s a bit disingenuous to expect her to be at your beck and call in the future.
My Mum has given her friends a song and dance about what a terrible daughter I am, but forgets to tell them the many things that have led to the rift.
I am not sure if this was covered but I don't think it was. A HUGE reason I hear from friends - and something I experienced with my grandparents - is younger people don't want to be around older people with hateful or disrespectful values. Racism. Sexism. Homophobia. Lots of older people don't think they are racist because they're not personally lynching people or using the "N" word - they don't understand what racism is. Some of them are just outright racist and don't care. Lots of older people don't think of sexism in the same way younger people do, they think it's wonderful that men "help" with the housework and childcare now. And then we have the gays.
I mean, these older people are talking about us, or our friends, when they pile on the hate and disrespect. Who wants to be around that?
Truthfully, I refused to spend time with my grandparents because they were so hateful and disrespectful. Lots of their friends thought they were wonderful, generous people, but these old school values ripped my guts open sometimes. I remember them trying to get me to read out loud a poem they thought was funny, from when the RCMP let Sikhs wear their turbans. They really thought it was hilarious, but it was a lot of awful noise about curly-toed shoes and garlic and accents. I hated it, and I hated them for finding it hilarious.
Dorianne - that's a very good point, and I'm glad you raised it. I don't want to risk tarring all older people with the same brush (my own mother, for all her faults, voted for Bernie), but I think it's pretty common for people of our parents' and especially our grandparents' generations to be much more socially "conservative" than younger people. If they get vitriolic about it, I can see them getting avoided, as well as generally ignored.
CarlaCB - I actually do have a lot of American friends my age who cut off their parents after the last American election, because of what they (my friends) thought their parents' voting choice meant about their social values. (Not trying to start a political debate here - just relating what I have been told.)
My grandfather and every one of his friends thought nothing of using racial slurs, like the "C" word for Chinese-Canadians (or any kind of Asian person - they couldn't tell the difference and didn't care), the "P" word for Pakistani-Canadians; all Indo-Canadians were "Hindoos," etc. They even had words for Italians and Hispanics. My mother insulated me so well from that stuff that the first time I heard one of my grandmother's friends use the word "coon," I thought she was talking about a racoon!! Gays were "abominations," women who were independent were sl**s or b****es. And so on. At BEST it was embarrassing to even be seen with them in public.
I know some people think younger folks are "too sensitive" now, but the need to distance from intolerance is real when older adults are talking smack about our friends, colleagues, partners, and even children.
What you are describing is part of the reason one of my sons refuses to visit his grandfather. When he saw gramps in the hospital post stroke, Gramps was making sexist comments to the female staff, racist comments about his room mate and the non white staff, it was ugly. It had been several years prior to then that he last visited gramps. That trip gramps lost any respect my son may have had for him.
Families are so tough. And there are so many factors. In my own extended family it was just a case that the grown children had their own kids, own careers and households to maintain. They too wanted to enjoy their own lives and did not want to be held responsible for caring for their elderly parents.
Thank you to all for the wonderful answers. I took comfort in the many perspectives shared. Perhaps I need to look to myself and examine "you reap what you sow"?
Dorianne, you really have a good point - what are we supposed to do when relatives, at say, Thanksgiving dinner, start that stuff? To keep silent seems to me to be cowardly, that is, silence implies consent. So then you speak up against the racism, sexism, etc.. Probably rude, but what is it but cowardice when toxic people pick these circumstances to spew?
Rovana, I discovered after I married my ex husband that his extended family were terrible racists. We were at a birthday party in a Chinese restaurant and the uncles started with the racist jokes. I had never met them before and I was horrified. My 6 year old son was there and I was appalled that he had to hear the garbage spewing from their mouths and nobody was saying anything.
Perhaps it is my red hair, but I clearly and calmly stated for all to hear that I was not prepared to listen to their garbage and that they should be ashamed to be speaking that way in front of my son and their grandchildren. I stated that unless they kept a civil tongue, I was leaving the restaurant and I would never sit at a table with them again.
There were plenty of open mouths around the table, no one had ever called into question those bigots and their opinions. After a moment the conversation resume without the nasty talk and I stayed at the table. They never used that language around me again.
In my own home at special meals/occasions, I have no problem telling people that their comments are not welcome and they can leave immediately.
I am always amazed that more people do not stand up for what is right. I would rather eat alone than have to listen to the garbage some people spew.
If someone wants to think that I am rude for standing up against racism, sexism, homophobia etc., that is their prerogative, but I do not need them in my life or my home, why would I want to break bread with them?
@Tothill - yes, I agree, we should all stand up to racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.
I think it's harder when it comes to your family origin, though. The risks are different. I'm not saying these risks shouldn't be braved, because wrong is wrong. But I don't think it's the same as walking into a new situation, with a group of people you have no history with or emotional ties to, and calling them out.
As a child, you have no power over the adults in your life. These are the people who have power over YOU. Your own personal power is something you grow into over time.
And even after you find your power (IF you find it), it doesn't mean you have the power to silence the bigots, because they will always see you as the child they knew and had authority over. Bigots are often bullies as well, so you might've grown up fearing the bully side of them, where a stranger or a newcomer hasn't.
From what you write, your now ex-husband didn't stand up to your in-laws either, or he'd given up trying by the time of this family dinner you describe. He grew up with this, with them. Even if he despised their attitudes, for whatever reason, he kept his mouth shut.
I stood up to my grandfather's bigotry for what felt like my entire life until he died. I was always the only one who ever dared talk back to him. I had small victories of turning him into a blubbering idiot trying to counter my arguments, and subsequently felt smarter than him. But I never really changed him.
Making the decision at 27 to not spend any more holidays around him was personally liberating. But it also meant isolating myself from my entire matri-family for almost a decade's worth of family events - if I was the only one who dared speak up, you can well imagine that no one else was going to change the family traditions to shut him out and include me instead. And sometimes, that was kinda sh***y.
I'm not saying this to discourage people from speaking up. Obviously it's a step I took and I accepted the consequences willingly. I built my life - and for awhile, my career - on fighting for human rights, and I've never regretted taking a stand. And I think it's our job to call out our own if we are being genuine about wanting to level the playing field between oppression and privilege. I'm just saying that doing so means risking something totally different when it comes to our lifelong families.
I haven't followed this thread or read all the answers, so I apologize if my post covers comments already shared. But I think the problem of family interaction and support isn't just with grown children and parents. It can be between parents, between siblings, with siblings ignoring their parents - I think it's an inter-family issue rather than a specific adult children vs. parental issue.
Some families just aren't cohesive, and that's not reflecting blame on anyone. It just is. And it just happens.
Sounds like fantasyland, I know, but I actually DO know quite a few families just like this. I stand in awe of whatever it is in them that makes them tick. The only thing I can think of is unconditional love--everyone of these families has and demonstrates it to all the members of the family--and beyond.
I'm fortunate enough to see them as examples of how I wanted my family to be raised. So far, so good. Of course the teen years were rough, but all my kids are happily married and with their own families. Considering what both my hubby and I came from, as examples, it shouldn't be this way--we are just supremely lucky to have realized a LOT of the dynamics from each of our families was sick and wrong. We've worked hard not to make the same mistakes.
I could be wrong, It could totally be luck. (we both had very troublesome mothers who left us each with a lot of emotional scars. Needless to say, they are not on our top list of priorities, simply b/c they are just too toxic to have around. Sad, very sad. I hope I never get referred to as "toxic". Or one of my kids freezes me out permanently.
My Mum has given her friends a song and dance about what a terrible daughter I am, but forgets to tell them the many things that have led to the rift.
I mean, these older people are talking about us, or our friends, when they pile on the hate and disrespect. Who wants to be around that?
Truthfully, I refused to spend time with my grandparents because they were so hateful and disrespectful. Lots of their friends thought they were wonderful, generous people, but these old school values ripped my guts open sometimes. I remember them trying to get me to read out loud a poem they thought was funny, from when the RCMP let Sikhs wear their turbans. They really thought it was hilarious, but it was a lot of awful noise about curly-toed shoes and garlic and accents. I hated it, and I hated them for finding it hilarious.
My grandfather and every one of his friends thought nothing of using racial slurs, like the "C" word for Chinese-Canadians (or any kind of Asian person - they couldn't tell the difference and didn't care), the "P" word for Pakistani-Canadians; all Indo-Canadians were "Hindoos," etc. They even had words for Italians and Hispanics. My mother insulated me so well from that stuff that the first time I heard one of my grandmother's friends use the word "coon," I thought she was talking about a racoon!! Gays were "abominations," women who were independent were sl**s or b****es. And so on. At BEST it was embarrassing to even be seen with them in public.
I know some people think younger folks are "too sensitive" now, but the need to distance from intolerance is real when older adults are talking smack about our friends, colleagues, partners, and even children.
What you are describing is part of the reason one of my sons refuses to visit his grandfather. When he saw gramps in the hospital post stroke, Gramps was making sexist comments to the female staff, racist comments about his room mate and the non white staff, it was ugly. It had been several years prior to then that he last visited gramps. That trip gramps lost any respect my son may have had for him.
Perhaps it is my red hair, but I clearly and calmly stated for all to hear that I was not prepared to listen to their garbage and that they should be ashamed to be speaking that way in front of my son and their grandchildren. I stated that unless they kept a civil tongue, I was leaving the restaurant and I would never sit at a table with them again.
There were plenty of open mouths around the table, no one had ever called into question those bigots and their opinions. After a moment the conversation resume without the nasty talk and I stayed at the table. They never used that language around me again.
In my own home at special meals/occasions, I have no problem telling people that their comments are not welcome and they can leave immediately.
I am always amazed that more people do not stand up for what is right. I would rather eat alone than have to listen to the garbage some people spew.
If someone wants to think that I am rude for standing up against racism, sexism, homophobia etc., that is their prerogative, but I do not need them in my life or my home, why would I want to break bread with them?
I think it's harder when it comes to your family origin, though. The risks are different. I'm not saying these risks shouldn't be braved, because wrong is wrong. But I don't think it's the same as walking into a new situation, with a group of people you have no history with or emotional ties to, and calling them out.
As a child, you have no power over the adults in your life. These are the people who have power over YOU. Your own personal power is something you grow into over time.
And even after you find your power (IF you find it), it doesn't mean you have the power to silence the bigots, because they will always see you as the child they knew and had authority over. Bigots are often bullies as well, so you might've grown up fearing the bully side of them, where a stranger or a newcomer hasn't.
From what you write, your now ex-husband didn't stand up to your in-laws either, or he'd given up trying by the time of this family dinner you describe. He grew up with this, with them. Even if he despised their attitudes, for whatever reason, he kept his mouth shut.
I stood up to my grandfather's bigotry for what felt like my entire life until he died. I was always the only one who ever dared talk back to him. I had small victories of turning him into a blubbering idiot trying to counter my arguments, and subsequently felt smarter than him. But I never really changed him.
Making the decision at 27 to not spend any more holidays around him was personally liberating. But it also meant isolating myself from my entire matri-family for almost a decade's worth of family events - if I was the only one who dared speak up, you can well imagine that no one else was going to change the family traditions to shut him out and include me instead. And sometimes, that was kinda sh***y.
I'm not saying this to discourage people from speaking up. Obviously it's a step I took and I accepted the consequences willingly. I built my life - and for awhile, my career - on fighting for human rights, and I've never regretted taking a stand. And I think it's our job to call out our own if we are being genuine about wanting to level the playing field between oppression and privilege. I'm just saying that doing so means risking something totally different when it comes to our lifelong families.
Some families just aren't cohesive, and that's not reflecting blame on anyone. It just is. And it just happens.