Who to believe? Mom or staff?

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Who to believe? Mom or staff?

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Believe your mom. You stated you have witnessed some of these events also. Your mother is very detailed about the occurrences and if she is able to repeat consecutively, it's happening. I would speak to the facilities administrator about the concerns voiced by your mom, visit her more often to observe operations, if more of the same continues, file a formal complaint.

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Thanks, jadaprincess! You are right.

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If you have witnessed the happenings at the facility that your Mom has mentioned to you, then these are probably realities your Mom are sharing with you of what's going on. I have had to speak with the managers of various facilities about my father's care. I have removed him from one particularly bad facility (which incidentally had an excellent rating and won an award)and I had reprimanded quite a few times two other facilities he was in for their lack of care and concern for my father's well being.
These facilities employ people who are sometimes apathetic, underpaid and "worn out" from the exhausting, routine and sometimes "thankless" job they are doing in caring for our elderly. They aren't perfect, but as long as our family member is not having bed sores, neglected, in danger or abused we may have to sometimes cut the caretakers some slack. Sometimes we don't have the time, energy or skills to care for our elderly and we put it off on others. They are doing the work and care that our parents did for us in our youth of wiping our butts, feeding us, helping us walk and bathe, etc.
If we can afford in home care for our loved ones, then we should let them stay with us. If we feel we have to place them in a home, then the best we can do is go visit daily or work out a schedule where relatives, friends, or church members visit on a regular basis. This makes the staff more apt to do their job better.

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I believe your Mom. Memory Care homes often attribute residents' complaints of poor care to the person's dementia. While at times it may be true that the person with dementia may not remember correctly, way too often they are telling it like it is. If you come to the home often enough and at varying times you will see for yourself. Staff do sit and socialize among themselves when they should be attending to residents, this is a chronic problem. And these homes are short-staffed, therefore residents' needs go unmet for too long. Request that the home establish a family council so that families can compare notes on care issues. If the home won't do this, contact the county ombudsman. Please don't let this drop.

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thepianist, I won't drop it, I promise.

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I think what your mother is describing sounds perfectly believable. And you've seen it yourself.

I also, on the one hand, think "what about it?" There is always going to be a time lag before calls get answered. There is nothing especially wrong with staff interacting with each other, though if I were their line manager I would probably want to "have a word," as they say, about how.

But on the other hand what *would* worry me, a lot, is that the resident nurse is not listening. And is brushing absolutely everything under the rug of 'your mother's away with the fairies.'

So who is next in the chain of command? Up you go!

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My answer would be to collect some hard data that you can see before accusing anyone. When I would visit my father he would tell me all sorts of things and I would tell him that I will address it with the AL and he wouldn't want me to. I was glad I didn't because I later found out that his version of the events was not quite true. One time he told me they left him at a doctor's appointment for HOURS before they picked him up. The truth was he went to the ER (not a doctor appointment) and it can take hours to get a transportation service to run you back to AL. His concept of time can also be off, so an hour may have seemed like 5 to him.

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Lol same with my mother. Because of her delusional thinking her dr recommended a nanny cam so we could see and possibly play back to her what was actually going on. She is sure pigeons live in her apartment, someone comes in and steals her socks etc.

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You can either be there nearly 24/7 for Mom, Or Put her in another spot where she might get the Kind of Kind Care tha tis Known to go to the Residents that would Go There. My Grandma who died of Cancer, My grandpa was there all day and into the early dinner hour for her, Was treated Genuinely like a Queen and with the rest of the Family going all of the time, Never DARE a problem. You don't know what goes on really behind closed doors but I do know when Grandpa went to a different floor when sick(Same place as my Grandma)He was Not given the Kind of Care She had, And we caught them in the Act, of Not putting on the T-shirts Mom had bought him and even Snapping their Gum, Hun, And not caring where they left his eye glasses. Try going when No one would even Suspect you Going, Different times, Find out if You Can Catch Anyone, Hun, In The ACT.

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Early dementia also means they are able to communicate, and the possibility exists she is simply telling the truth. Nursing homes are horrible..families do not like to face the fact and like to believe they are getting quality care, but they are not there 24-7. Staff is not going to air their dirty laundry when visitors are around. Despite what people claim, institutionalized care is awful. One CNA for an entire hall of patients represents poor care due the amount of time it requires to adequately care for a single patient. The more patients one CNA has, the less time they have. Baths and meals are hurried, and if they cannot feed themselves, they simply chart "refused" so they lose weight. This is also how contagious diseases are transmitted from patient to patient so it is not uncommon for nursing home patients to have head lice, scabies, c-diff diarrhea and other illnesses. I personally believe all nursing homes should be shut down and family should care for their own kin. If your loved one is unable to get up and toilet herself, chances are she is not in assisted living, but in a nursing home.

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Not necessarily Cetude. Family is not going to be the same as a trained medical professional. My mother's NH has an award for the low percentage of falls with its residents and I trust them implicitly with her care. The nursing home staff were the ones that told me Mom didn't need hospice anymore, not the hospice agency. The nursing home got her to the point where she was eating solids again and the nursing home is keeping her safe with a very caring staff. They've yet to drop the ball on her care and her dementias are very advanced. Believe it or not, there are diamonds in your back yard....ya just have to look for them. Don't assume all facilities are bad.

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I’m guessing it’s some of both. Obviously, do some research into the facility but my mother says all this and more and none of it is true. She started it long before she went to this facility, complained similarly about the last one ( til she had to move then it was the best place that ever existed lol) and about us when she was living in her home. It was one of the first thing I noticed about something being “ different ” about her personality . I spoke with her dr who told me it’s common. Not only with dementia but often just basically a play for attention from family members. It kind of reminds me of middle school behavior, us against them with the us being residents the them the staff. It adds a little spice to an otherwise dull day.

Staff gets breaks and are allowed to laugh. Do you see them really neglecting people or is it maybe they aren’t doing what you imagine they should? How do they treat the residents?

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I respect your opinion and you seem to genuinely care about your mom but it does happen maybe not to the extent of Ctude's apocalyptic example of worse case scenarios but most are also not like you're other end of the spectrum again I'm not trying to start an argument just suddenly noticing the amount of blind faith is given to the people taking care of our mom's and dads and how unwaivering some our in their belief in the good intentions of all caregivers. It's simply delusional in the face of so much of the same complaints from people all over the country in a variety of different places. I'm so adamant about this because I have witnessed it first hand and it was more shocking because the abuse I witnessed wasn't from the kind of burnt out nurse I always pictured when I thought about it. It was from two CNA's in their early twenties who didn't try to hide what they were doing because for some reason no one brought it to their attention that it was wrong. One made my mom stay sitting up in bed with a documented bed sore on her bottom that gave her considerable pain until she finished at least half her dinner. She did this right in front of me and told me (proudly) that her patients always ate s bigger portion of their meals. Mom was sitting there with tests rolling down her cheeks trying not to start bawling and this CNA was proud of her high percentages of eaten meals. I almost lost it. I told her mom was done and I started lowering mom's bed. She looked at me with such contempt it scared me. She was complaining about my interference before I could. She was adamant that I shouldn't be allowed to be there as much as I was. The head nurse looked like she was about to agree until the girl proudly told her exactly what happened. I didn't have to say a word. The head nurse listened with a visibly growing unease took her off to the side and told her to shut up and wait in her office. The charge nurse tried to retell what was said trying to make it seem less horrible when we went to the director. But she couldn't and they were both fired.

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I'm so sorry, Renesmith!! Let's keep in touch, lift each other up!

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I try to document everything, but there is too much, and truth be known, when we have gone to management , nothing changes. But I mainly want to tell you that mom has told us things we thought were way out there...no way could that be right...only to discover a few days later that she WAS right, and those things had happened. Believe your mom, but then verify. I am amazed what goes on... or does not happen..at her NH. By the way, what state are you in. Stay strong.

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Wow. This is awful. I get upset over small things I notice in my mom's assisted living because I'm there visiting every day at different times. I let them know what I've seen and they fix it, but they have been taking away and cutting back on some of the care, such as pedicures, entertainment, massages, haircuts, cleaning of the rooms, etc. because the rooms are not all filled right now. They don't tell me they are cutting back. I just notice. At this point I would not be able to believe what my tells me, but it seems you can believe your mom. Perhaps you do need to find a different place for her? Some larger places seem to have the most problems as I understand. The caregivers are not paid enough. Someone else is making the money, not them, so I suppose that might make them feel they should not do their jobs. I hate this sort of thing! I do think questioning first the caregivers, then keep going up the ladder of responsibility until you reach the top person. In our city there was an accounting for all care facilities because one place was found to be abusing the residents.

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Mom does understand that staff are entitled to breaks, to laugh, etc. Right? I worked for one company that insisted that all breaks be taken out of sight of customers because of complaints and misunderstandings.

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I say believe your loved one. When Mother went to NH for rehab after breaking hip, I stayed with her day and night for three at because the first week she fell twice and I was not informed. When I said she needed to go to the hospital to be checked, the staff doctor, head nurse and administrator did everything they could think of to talk me out of it. One of the more ridiculous comments by the head nurse was that the hospital would probably want to do a CT scan and "those post a risk of brain cancer." I told her, "Okay, so we can risk her MAYBE getting brain cancer years from now, or MAYBE DYING in a couple days if she has bleeding on the brain and we didn't know because we didn't have a CT scan?" They had her transported.
During those three weeks I witnessed residents asking for by help and being ignored; residents being moved roughly; residents being spoken to with disrespect...
I'm sure they were glad to see me leave, because they knew I was watching, and the time I was there they had to be more mindful of their actions.
Believe your mom...

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I have witnessed staff at SOME of these facilities congregating and chatting and laughing loudly while the needs of the residents go unheeded.

Please believe your mother.

The loud laughing particularly irks me. Some of the residents are in dire needs. Laughing while working at one of the home's stations should be kept to a minimum.

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I would send a letter to the administrator with specific occurrences that you have witnessed, include the information from mom and be as specific as possible with information, generalizations will be ignored. Approach this with an attitude of belief that they didn't know that this was happening and you are bringing it to their attention, as you know that they would never allow this neglect knowingly, be sure and name the people that have been told by you and how they dealt with it. Be specific and name names when able, keep your feelings out of it, don't say it made me feel, say this is exactly what took place when I approached nurse xyz, based on her response I decided to notify you of the situations that I have personally seen and have been personally told about. We all know you would never allow this type of treatment to the residents. This type of approach usually hits their pride and I have found it to be more effective then other approaches. If you hand deliver the letter, ask whomever you give it to to sign your copy and print their name with date and time, so you know who to say signed for delivery. Nothing more frustrating than I never received that letter, can you resend.

Another poster said that they may kick your mom out and that is true, so be prepared to have another place willing to take her and get her records as soon as you see there is a problem, they would stoop to falsifying the records.

In the mean time, spend as much time as possible during the problem times, ask for help when you see groups of employees and write down their names so they can see you are taking notes.

Send a letter to the Department of Health Services and ask them how you can get help addressing the neglect of these residents. Explain that you have approached the proper line of command as you understand it and they deny what you have personally seen, blaming the residents medical condition on the neglect.

Please let us know what happens.

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Thanks for all of your info! I like the plan of writing the letter. I will definitely get back w/all of you when I get results. Take care!!

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I live in an upscale assisted living facility with my husband. I do not have dementia as he does. PLEASE believe your loved one! I have seen all of this and worse. If you don’t live there 24/7, you have no idea what goes on. Staff and administrators will tell you anything to shut you up. You can report to them all day long, but what you get is excuses, denials, and empty promises. You need to report to the state officials first. Even The Ombudsman is useless because they have no authority. And many times they are buddy buddy with the administration. Get yourself a good lawyer. Document everything. Put a camera in the room. Talk to the other residents when caregivers are not around. SPEND MORE TIME there. We have a crisis in this country. Yours is. It the only facility where both subtle and blatant abuse is occurring. It needs to be exposed. Talk to your state senator. Encourage him/her to push for legislation that will protect residents in these facilities. If a facility decides that you are being too vocal in your complaining, they can just send you a letter saying , “We can no longer meet the needs of your loved one. “. They will tell you you have 60 days to vacate. They do not have to give any reason for their decision, but can just make up anything they want for the record. If you can afford it, get your loved one out of there and bring them home. Hire private caregivers to help you. Put cameras in the home. Even if you have done a background check, if the person has never been caught and prosecuted, you don’t know what they might have done. We have a broken system in our country, and it needs to be fixed! These places are businesses, and their top priority is making money. PLEASE help all of us!

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Not sure why anybody thinks it remarkable that making money is the top American priority. Free market capitalism is the name of our game. And most voters seem to go along with that. For some reason they don't seem to grasp that times have changed and the unpaid female labor that traditionally made our system look like it worked is not there as it once was. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander and high time! And if people pay decent wages they can get good workers, but try to do it cheap as possible and don't expect filet mignon at hamburger prices.

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You answered your own question. Your mother is in early dementia, and you know when she is "with it." You've witnessed the staff ignoring patients and defending themselves by calling their accusers impossible to believe. Find a better place!

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Who to believe? With early dementia the truth is going to be somewhere in the middle, take everything she says with a grain of salt but watch for real evidence that you can act on. And in case you aren't aware, most AL's only have a sketeton staff in the middle of the night so they aren't likely able to keep on top of things if more than one resident need help at the same time.

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If you witness this happening, go to the Charge Nurse and ask why her staff is not responding to a resident’s needs.

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Isn't this situation awful? My mom does NOT have dementia. She tells us the same things about her NH. When I address them with staff AND administrator, they try to tell me my mom is not really aware...but she is and I see these things happening myself when I visit. My brother used to be a second and third shift supervisor in a plant. He told me that if I think first shift at NH is slack, I do not even want to know how staff on second and third shifts ignore the patients. Wish i could give advice to you, but cannot even solve for my mom.

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Do you know what the time frames are for 1st, 2nd, 3rd shifts? I am a volunteer for a nursing home we like going to very much but as you both have said yes we've seen this on a good number of occasions too. (Btw we are a southern gospel quartet so we sing for about I guess 40 minutes before another guy does bible study with them) One time we were there and could see one lady repeatedly stand up from her wheelchair until she finally tried to sit down and I guess the wheelchair slid out from under her. So we stopped singing for I guess 10-15 minutes so they could leave the lady on the floor while they waited for "her person" I'll admit I am a little ignorant about how nursing home procedure works but I was irritated by this and some nights the nurses are huddled in their station talking/laughing so loud we can hear them over either us singing and/or the bible study. I realize they have long hours and I realize they apparently have crappie pay but isn't it if nothing else enough to ask they make sure they are SAFE???

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Who to believe? Mom or staff?

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