What to do when mom wants and is threatening to fire a ‘good’ caregiver for no real reason?

Indigo, it is like when our parents get to a certain age, in their vocabulary are certain sentences that come out automatically. Such as "I don't like her", "I don't need caregivers", "this food taste funny", "why are you mumbling?", "I can live on my own", etc.

Getting old isn't fun, as so much independence is lost. No wonder some of our elders are so grumpy. Talk with the current caregiver and ask what recommendations would she have regarding this situation. If she had experience with other elders, she can relate, and will know what to do.

Whatever you do, try to keep this caregiver on board.

Looking for a new caregiver isn't going to help. Your Mom will say the same thing about the new caregiver. And whatever you do, don't you become Mom's full-time caregiver, which is probably what she really wants. If Mom is worried about the cost, just use a "therapeutic fib" saying that social security pays for it.

I would do all I can to explain to the caregiver that you know and understand your mom is not in the real world on this (and she cannot give you a single reason, so seems Mom isn't). If your Mom is currently living with YOU then the answer is simple: Tell Mom "She works for ME, not you. She is helping ME and she is doing what I ask, and without her you will need to go to assisted living, so I would treat her like gold were I you." If Mom is living alone tell her that you will not be able to take up the gap in care left by this woman's leaving, and in fact will see less of your mother as a result. Ultimately there is not a lot you can do about this irrational behavior.

My 94 yo mother does the same thing. It has become very embarrassing. Her reason "She is stealing from me" so I ask "What did she steal" the last one stole a nut cracker. Bizarre! I agree with AlvaDeer, that is what I would do.

You could tell Mum if she fires this one then she won't have one and simply refuse to look for anyone else if you think this person is trustworthy and doing a good job - Mum will come round if she has no option. Alternatively perhaps Mum has a reason for not liking this person which you don't see because things happen when you are not there?
With my own elderly mother she swings from hating people one day to thinking they are great the next - for instance someone who helps her is SO good one day, and always poking their nose in the next. I have learnt to ignore her views of people because they are actually usually views of how she feels on a particular day not anything logical. I think it important to check out if there is anything logical and after that if you are happy you have found someone good, simply tell them to turn up every day and ignore anything she says about firing them, and tell Mum its this care or a NH. Only you can do the detective work to find out if there is really a reason, or just Mum feeling a lack of control and disliking being told what to do re PT etc.

My MIL suffered several thefts at a string of IL, then AL facilities, then a NH. She could never explain what happened. After the first theft we installed a discreet motion activated nanny cam, which was a large print digital clock with a hidden recording device. The only tell tale sign was a small red dot, which could have appeared to be the a.m., p.m. designation. No one suspected a recording device as many elders need a large display clock. The clock itself was of normal alarm clock size. Thankfully my MIL was never abused, but we discovered how she was falling so often, how furniture and items were broken, and who paraded through her apartment. We also discovered taunting by a particular technician and disrepectful treatment after a bath (walking my MIL through the apartment to her bedroom to dry her off. Older people are so much colder than we are! Dry her off in the already warm bathroom!). Search on line for hidden recording devices. The clock we purchased was about $70.00; not much for peace of mind. You must consider your mother's complaints with the possibility she knows something, but cannot express it to you. Only you know if she will complain about any and everything. It does sound like your caregiver is too good to be true, but some jewels truly do care about others. Best of luck!

Indigo 108,
Does your mom have dementia? Does she live with you or...? Does she work for an agency or is she a private individual?
You gave gotten good advice, but these details would allow us to be more helpful to your situation.

When we had home care my mom at first would not like them and be really awful to them, and like your mom have no real reason except that she didn't like them. One lady stayed for an entire year with this sort of negativity going on. Eventually Mom gave in to the idea that someone had to be with her and the last caregiver we had was perfect in every way possible, just not available as often as we needed her. I'd say to try to ignore your mom's disapproval and continue on as long as this person can handle it. Make up a reason there can be no change for however many months you want to keep her, such as there is a contract.

I would install a security camera just to make sure your mother is treated well. There might be a reason why your mother does not like her. I would do this for peace of mind and go from there.

I don't have the answer my mother has medium to severe dimentia and has run off 2 caregiving companies 1 really good Careforce the other mediocre Huskycare because of the black caregivers she was born in 1922 and you can not change what they learned as children no matter what society says today its domestic abuse to them to ask them to unlearn. But not socially acceptable to say that.

This one is easy, well, sort of - many of us have been there. When a PATTERN of continual dismissal of people you’ve hired is evident - and you’re sure the caregiver is respectful & competent - you tell Mom that, if she tries this again, she will do without this care. You can’t accept emotional blackmail: she either accepts it or does without. Good luck!

Indigo, of course it's only a guess but my guess is that your mother has nothing against this (excellent sounding) lady personally - what she minds is having someone present all the time. Have you had a chance to talk to the caregiver about how she thinks it's going? Maybe if she can keep a slightly lower profile while your mother adjusts to the new arrangement your mother won't find her presence so intrusive and they'll have time to develop a good, comfortable working relationship.

Tell Mom it is Hard to Find the Right Kind that she may Find is Picture Perfect. The reason Mom is Finding Fault is because he IS PICTURE PERFECT and Mom may Feel a bit Intimidated by it.

indigo, I feel ya! I’m having to replace yet another person right now (each week has 4/5 people so Mom doesn’t burn out on any one person). But there are a few folks that relieving them never even comes up. There is some personality matching to it. I email everyone a detailed ‘missive’ on how she is, likes & dislikes, etc., before they start and I think that helped.

As always, I got a lot out of the other replies, thanks! Not so much those that say ‘or she has to do without.’ They’ll choose that, and you’re the one who suffers or gets to do the work. Going without is not one of their options. :)

Yes, tell her the person works for you not her! Ask her to do her best to meet this nice, competent lady halfway; she needs a purpose too, and maybe your mom’s her purpose. That helped me with one lady Mom was lukewarm about.

I wholeheartedly agree on talking with the caregiver about it, if she’s got experience she knows all about this kind of thing. Yes it must be hard adjusting to someone there all the time. Tell her more about your mom’s peccadilloes and load her up with any inside information about things mom has done in life or few things she particularly loves. For any that ring with the caregiver, while they’re driving or whatnot she she could say, “you know what I love..” Ask her to try and read your mom’s ups and downs more closely and learn when to give her more breathing room. Although we don’t want her ‘on her phone’ maybe she has knitting or sudoku she can do when your mom just wants to read or drowse.

Best of luck on this!!

The fact that you found one that doesn't play on the phone all day gives you the Blue Ribbon! Go over there and observe a couple of days. Better yet, get a friend to go and observe to see if there's something that really does need improvement - or - if it's just your mom being ornery.

If all the required tasks are being done and done well, then it might just be mom. If you start replacing caretakers when current one is doing a good job, it will become a regular hiring and firing process. It's possible your mom really doesn't want someone there with her and will just continue to throw up roadblocks.

I doubt you're going to find too many people who check all the boxes that the current one does. Don't get caught up in a revolving door.

This is very common.
Often it has 99.9% to do with the person needing assistance than the care provider, but not always.
"Most" care givers are experienced to know that issues of anger, resentment, fear play into the relationship. This doesn't mean it is easy nor does it mean that a caregiver should be disrespected and expected to stay and be subjected to inappropriate behavior.
I encourage you to talk to the caregiver(s); let them know the situation and express your appreciation to them for working with your mom. Encourage them to step out or away for a few minutes as needed to allow your mom time to cool down or re-set (and the caregiver,too).
* I agree w/comment above. Tell your mom that if this caregiver is let go, there won't be anyone to assist her. (Of course, you'll need to find someone else.)
* I spent many many hours getting IHSS help (In-House Supportive Services) - had to call program manager, get names of available people, interview them over the phone, fill in paperwork . . . and more. Then friend (he is 86 and a long-time friend I'm helping out) said "I don't need anymore help." I said, she is the best of the best (spoke English and many of the applicants do not or certainly not well enough to even interview over the phone). If you let her go, I am not going to pursue getting someone else.
* We do what we can.
I do believe the important relationship here is between you and the care giver so she knows she is appreciated BY YOU and that you mom's communications are the DEMENTIA talking.

Tell Mom as soon as she fires caregiver, is the same day she enters facility.

This sounds so much like my late mother. When I had to live with her while she was living alone and "keeping house" -NOT!! - we were trying to figure out what we would do with my mother because at some point, I had to go home after 8 months. I interviewed caregivers who would stay there with her and she would say "Well, I already know that lady won't get the job." I said - "Mother, what are you talking about? I have yet to decide." I do not know, but elders seem to have this mindset that they have already made up their mind and NOTHING WILL CHANGE IT! It could be that this caregiver for your mother sneezed the wrong way. Gosh - the elder mindset. Hang onto that very excellent caregiver. You are the one making the choices and not mom.

I've had this with Dad....

A few times now hes had carers in after a hospital visit. Free as well in the UK on the NHS....

Then hes moaned they don't come at 9am like he wants them to. I explain that not everyone can have 9am because resources are limited. Then he moans they don't stay long enough.

Then he cancels without telling me. His answer "well you can help me instead". (Not at 9am I can't Im in work!)

Maybe you can ask the caregiver what could be going on? She may have insights and be willing to have talk with her "client" . Talking is better than firing! There is something going on. Find out what and then talk more to Mom.

Haven't had a chance to read all replies - actually now editing because I read through (skimmed) most and see others suggested this as well (have to get myself to an appt!), so apologies if someone else has suggested this:

Can you tell her one or two things:
1) she is my friend helping me out
2) she is working for ME (aka YOU)

Also, be sure to tell care-giver to ignore mom if she tries to "fire" her.... Care-giver can make excuse to mom that she's already been paid for today (or the week), so she plans to finish the job - meanwhile, work on how to get mom over this.

The other comment I replied to was to maybe let mom choose - you let "my friend" help me (us) OR you move to a facility. Line in the sand, just be sure you can stick to it (maybe get or print up some AL brochures, and leave them out... she might get the hint quicker!)

Wow?! Thank-you so much for all the thoughtful replies! I am new to this site/forum and really wasn’t expecting so much in depth advice. It is really nice to be have people that can relate to this frustration.
Things have escalated over the past few days. We argue everyday. I left early for an appointment and my mom locked the caregiver out and almost fired her. Now says she doesn’t like her personality. My mom will now let the caregiver in then hide in her room ‘resting’ all day. I’ve spoken to the caregiver and she is uncomfortable and feel like mom doesn’t like her. I’m afraid caregiver will quit. Mom will get her wish.
This is very stressful for me because school starts again in August. Even if I found someone new today the insurance will take 6-8 weeks to process background checks/paperwork etc. I am now extremely worried that there will be no one in place for the fall. Honestly, I’m a little resentful that I will now have to spend this time doing a whole new exhausting caregiver search and interview process. Instead of school/career prep. In the past we have found and hired people and then by the time the paperwork goes through they’ve disappeared or are not reliable. So even if we had someone new today they might not be reliable. My mom doesn’t seem to understand the risks and thinks ‘everything will be fine’. Usually everything is fine bc I make it fine by accommodating her needs and ignoring my own.

She has also decided that she is moving out and getting her own apartment. She doesn’t need or want caregivers anymore, says she is fine on her own. Smh

Reading your responses, I’ve noticed that many of you have final say with your parents. My situation with my mom is different. I am her representative payee through social security and that’s it. No POA/guardianship etc. I’ve spoken with the new case manager from our area agency on aging and legally mom can do whatever she wants, even if she puts herself in harms way because she has not been deemed incompetent.
So she is free to fire caregivers/ move/ anything really. My legal responsibility is to make sure her social security money is being used for her needs like utilities/ shelter/food etc. This morning she told me she tried to get approved for a 3000 loan, but didn’t qualify. She has even been searching apartments and through a government program she may be able to get help with down payment etc.

I am so upset that I’m beside myself. Our household situation has us both tied to each other financially. In the past she could not afford to live alone and neither could I, but together it’s still tight, but we could cover all the bills. Now that I’m a full time student I am more dependent on this living arrangement bc of financial aid etc. she doesn’t care, say I can quit school and just a get 2 jobs. She needs her independence. She needs her freedom. She needs to live in the country. She wants to be alone.
This from the woman who for 10+ years almost daily worried that I would leave her alone and made me promise constantly to never ‘put her away’, even that if I ever got married to make an addition or one thing so she pulls come and live with me forever. I agreed, I’ve seen what happens when she lives alone and it’s a disaster and that was just with the mental illness, before the arthritis. Never in a million years did I expect she would do this. It doesn’t seem like crazy talk either, she is determined. Also, suddenly cut off her best friend and is it not going to family wedding. Says she wants to be left alone. So it’s bigger than just caregiver. I’m meeting with her psych on Thursday to discuss this behavior. It is a shame we’re going to lose this caregiver. I am sure mom is going to ice her out until she quits.

I completely feel for you.

You mention that your mother has a history of mental illness - could you say a little more about that? It seems clear that your mother is mentally competent, so what form of mental illness is in the background?

My mother was also, shall we say, a person who liked her own company. She became too frail and too much at risk to live alone (in her three-storey town house with its narrow steep stairs and cats tripping her up). My sister, to give credit where its due, moved heaven and earth to find her an independent living apartment to spec, which included two loos (why?), pet-friendly (that was a challenge), affordable and well located; and she and her husband negotiated a hard bargain, and all was good to go. The day before contracts were to be signed, without consulting anyone, mother put it in writing that she was rejecting the whole deal. Sister understandably washed her hands of any further involvement. SO and I were moving away to the country and we tentatively suggested that mother might like to come with us. She bit our hands off. We all moved. From that day forward, mother was like a little thundercloud of negativity and told anyone who would listen how much she hated the house, the countryside, the gardens, the nearby towns - and probably me, too, though that didn't get fed back explicitly. Long story short... it was a challenging six years until she passed away. And the SO became an exSO, and I am estranged from all my siblings. There we go, I'm still standing (on my head, maybe, but I am).

Do Not let that good caregiver go! Link arms with her. Work out how you and she can support one another and win this caregiving challenge.

I say this because I don't know how I would have coped without my Lovely Liz, the respite caregiver who did one afternoon a week at first and then stepped up later to be a tower of strength. Mother was awful to her - not actually abusive, but radiating silent, resentful hostility across the room when she was there and complaining about how pointless she was behind her back. It took months before Liz, a serious animal rights champion, managed to bond with her over cats. Mother was not supposed to walk around unassisted but refused all help. Liz would follow her to the bathroom saying "oh don't mind me, I was going this way anyway." She'd bring a book and sit quietly by and be ready in case. I never had a moment's worry knowing she was in the house.

It is not fun or pleasant for your caregiver to feel that your mother doesn't like her, but impress on her that this is NOT about her. She is doing nothing wrong. The challenge is to support your mother without making your mother more aware of it than can be avoided. It is hard, but satisfying, and if she can get through this with you you can promise her the job reference to end all job references.

Is it possible for the caregiver to be somewhere out of your mother's direct line of sight so that your mother can't claim a grievance about being "forced" to stay in her own room? Could you perhaps give her a theoretical to do list - change your mother's bed, tidy the bathroom closet, take a kitchen inventory - so that she's just around the house somewhere while your mother continues her own everyday routine?

Round up a few packing boxes and place them in the garage, etc., where your mom cannot see them. The next time your mom says she is moving out hand her the phone book, phone, a suitcase and a few packing boxes. She probably cannot arrange to move, but allow her to try. Bring out the boxes so SHE can pack her belongings. She will not be able to accomplish this with the physical limitations you have described. Allow her to prove this to herself. Do NOT help her. This might calm down her little fits to move out and demonstrate to herself that she is NOT fine! Do not enable her and do not try to explain because she cannot follow logical thinking anymore and will never understand. You must understand that you are doing your best for her, and that includes some outside help. Good luck.

I'm still working through your post to make response, but I do have to address this:

"Reading your responses, I’ve noticed that many of you have final say with your parents. My situation with my mom is different.  I am her representative payee through social security and that’s it. No POA/guardianship etc. I’ve spoken with the new case manager from our area agency on aging and legally mom can do whatever she wants, even if she puts herself in harms way because she has not been deemed incompetent."

Incompetent or not, POA or not, we do not have any legal authority over our LOs. A lot of people say get (or use it if you have) POA, then you can do X, Y, Z... Nope. Having POA is really NO different than your rep payee for SS. We can make financial decisions, we can handle their accounts, etc and with medical POA you are allowed to know their condition, discuss with doctors, etc, but making them do something? No legal standing.

I can say this without hesitation. We had all the legal "Stuff" in place. Mom developed dementia. We tried bringing help in (only 1 hr/weekday, sanity/med check) and told her Medicare pays (they WOULD have covered some, if she was willing to get personal help, but nope.) It lasted a few weeks, tops 2 months and then she refused to let them in (she lived alone then.) So, decision was made to move her - she refused any kind of AL (although prior to the dementia that was in her plans) nor would she consider moving to either brother's (YB was/is still working so that wouldn't work anyway, the OB is not local and would be a bad idea, I could not physically care for her, so MC was it.) Our EC attorney told us we CANNOT "drag her out of the house" and suggested guardianship. Facility we chose said no committals... Rock and hard place! We had to come up with a fib to get her there - staff said just get her here, we'll take over. So we had no "final word" with her...

On top of that, staff has told me several times that even with dementia they cannot force anyone to do anything! They have to coax them into showers, taking meds, going to hospital for wound care, etc. So, you are not alone.

Anyone tells you that POA will let you do this is wrong. That is NOT was POA is for. Guardianship is a different story (one I am not versed in), but if mom isn't deemed incompetent, you are not likely to get that.

Solving your issue will take some finesse. I don't know what it will take, but perhaps your case manager has some suggestions other than telling you mom can do whatever? As the saying goes, some of these so-called experts are are useful as teats on a bull!

"We argue everyday."
 Be the bigger person and refuse to get into any kind of argument. You will know when your dander is up, walk away from her, drop the discussion, it will only serve to upset you. It isn't easy, but don't take the bait. If she says/does something that you know will lead to arguing, take a deep breath and disengage!!

"...my mom locked the caregiver out..."
 Is it possible to either leave the key with a trusted neighbor OR put one of those lock-boxes outside with a key, one like the real estate people use. I know when selling mom's condo they even have newer ones that use a code rather than a key to access it (key to your place is inside.)

"My mom will now let the caregiver in then hide in her room ‘resting’ all day."
 THIS sounds like it is "workable." I know you mentioned she tries to get mom doing PT, but perhaps skip that for now? Let her be there as your back up care-giver in case someone is needed, and tackle just the non-mom tasks. You can try working on engaging mom later.

"...she is uncomfortable and feel like mom doesn’t like her."
 REASSURE her that YOU like her and that YOU want her to stay!!! Also reinforce that mom is just being difficult, she has issues and not to take any of what she says or does personally. YOU are pleased with her, so make it clear that YOU wish her to stay and please try to ignore what mom says and does. Mom clearly has "issues" and you can even tell the caregiver how mom is talking about moving out, so she doesn't even like you!!! Yet you are willing to stay... Focus on reassuring the caregiver and that given some time you can all try to work it out, even if it remains status quo (mom lets her in, but hides away.) Beg if you have to!

"My mom doesn’t seem to understand the risks and thinks ‘everything will be fine’."
 Oh yeah, our mother was like that (still is, now in year 3 of MC - after a couple of falls, she is refusing to walk, uses the transport chair only (they push her or she uses her feet to propel herself.) When I said you need to get up and walk, she says I do. Staff and OT/PT says she refuses, from day one (they are discharging her because she will not even try.)  Before moving her to MC, she insisted everything was "fine" and that she was "independent, can take care of herself and can cook." NOPE. Anything came up, it would be "fine."

"She has also decided that she is moving out and getting her own apartment. She doesn’t need or want caregivers anymore, says she is fine on her own."
and
"This morning she told me she tried to get approved for a 3000 loan, but didn’t qualify. She has even been searching apartments and through a government program she may be able to get help with down payment etc."
 I would let her search and try all she wants. I don't think she will get anywhere, but it will keep her occupied! Since you are rep payee, she (presumably) has no accounts, assets or a car and therefore no way to pay for a place, even a gov't program or even to go check it out. She would have to pay someone to take her there and move her things, but again, no funds!

"I’m meeting with her psych on Thursday to discuss this behavior."
 Since this behavior is not her "norm" I was going to suggest working with her doctor(s), but you are already. Make sure they understand that this is way out of normal for her and is very disruptive for everyone. They need to understand the enormity of it, including her threats to move out and have no care-givers.