Your profile says that her “whole life is her grandson...my son. She absolutely worships the ground he walks on, and so do I. He doesn’t know how often she has treated me with such disrespect”. This might be out of date, as he has suggested that your niece shouldn’t visit. But if it is still the situation, you should certainly talk to your son, before you go to the police, APS or the licensing authorities. It wouldn’t be good if a check with him says that he doesn’t know what you are talking about.
It would also be good to discuss with him what he thinks is the best way to approach this. Is there any reason not to do this?
You live in a different state? Block her calls and let go. Every relationship has to have boundaries of self-protection, don't give up those boundaries.
Does ANY relative live near her? If so and they still have contact with her, just call them for updates on your mother. It sounds like you have a volatile relationship with her.
You say, "I think she is losing/lost her mind although she would deny that possibility." She can deny it all she wants but being angry, paranoid, making threats, "would always talk about “blowing someone’s brains out, drag him/her to her shed, and CHOP him/her up!!!” obvious is not normal behavior. She either has dementia or a mental health problem.
You say, "I have no intention of going anywhere near her. I’m glad we live in different states!" Do you really think she is going to get in the car and drive 9 hours to your location or hire someone to "drive her"? Because you "have no intention of going anywhere near her", it's hard to understand why you would contact her by phone? Her behavior is toxic.
Burntcaregiver gave you 2 good suggestions of who to call: APS and ATF. Does she live in a rural area? You may need to call the local Sheriff's Dept. When you called the local PD for a welfare checks, did you happen to mention her previous paranoid threats and the fact she owns SEVERAL firearms? If not, TELL THEM AGAIN. Get the officers' names who call you back with their "welfare check" results. Write down the date, time and these officers names. At this point you have put authorities "on notice" of a potentially dangerous individual with guns in their community. You are done.
Stop calling her or taking her calls. Maybe change your phone number. You say you don't get along. Why are you torturing yourself by contacting her? She told you she doesn't want help and wants to "die in her house." It's difficult because although you'll never go near her, you seem to still care about her either out of obligation or guilt. YOU need to figure out how this relationship is affecting YOU. Warn your son, any grandchildren or any relatives of her behavior. Myself, I would just leave her be.
Lifeistoshort, you say she made these threats over a year ago and then stopped calling you.
Some posters would lead you to believe that recording the threat would get action. That is not true. We live in a country that words don't create action by authorities only actions create action.
If she hasn't done anything in a year she was probably being over dramatic to get you to leave her alone.
As sad as it is to be rejected totally by a supposed mthr, at least you know where you stand and you can let it go knowing it was her choice not yours.
I would feel like a true orphan and put her behind me. She has never been kind and loving to you, so stop giving her the ability to further hurt your heart.
I would be the one telling her to record her mother's phone calls. Why I suggested it is because I had a similar situation with my father's former live-in girlfriend who I will call 'Alice'. As everyone here knows I had his POA and when he had to go into care the money flow and support for 'Alice' stopped because the NH had to be paid for. She started making calls to me at all hours day and night. She had a friend doing the same at her behest. Threats, profanity, you name it. This went on for about a month or so. I then recorded some of them and played them for the police. The police sent me over to the courthouse where not one but TWO restraining orders were issued. One for 'Alice' and one for her friend. The police delivered both. They were to have no contact with me themselves or through any third party for any reason. The friend had a legal and licensed firearm at home in her name. The police confiscated it temporarily because there was a restraining order against her. She had made threats to do violence with her gun. Her gun was returned to her after the duration of time (6 months) for the restraining order expired. She did have to complete several hours of gun safety training again and anger management hours. I don't live in the same state as the OP. The police where I live took action. Recording the phone calls would still be worth doing because having a record of threats could be useful.
Lifeistooshort, Yikes. Mom is threatening and has guns. Scary.
If these guns are illegally owned, then the police can absolutely seize them. And also, mom likely gets arrested for illegal possession of a firearm.
But you say mom legally owns these guns.
So here's the problem: if your mom has a license to own these guns, the police can't just come in and remove them. Even if, hypothetically, she used one illegally (at least in NY), when the prosecutor brought that case before a judge, there would have to be a request during the initial court proceedings to revoke the license on the other guns that weren't used in order for the police to be able to take possession of the other guns (the gun used illegally would be taken as arrest evidence, in accordance with the 4th Amendment).
My advice to you if you are trying to figure out a way to get those guns away from mom: do some research into her county on who is the licensing agency. For example, I had to apply to my County's Sherriff department for my license. So that's the agency that would have to start proceedings to revoke my license. You can probably google mom's resident county to find out how to get a gun license.
Then, contact that agency. Explain, calmly, what is going on. That you suspect mom has dementia, that she has been threatening you, that you are also IN FEAR that she is going to harm *someone else*. Tell them your primary goal is to get those guns away from mom, that you're NOT trying to make this into a domestic violence situation, because you are 9 hours away, and therefore in no immediate danger. This is an important point to make, because if it's not the local police that issue the license, you might be told to "contact the local police because it's a domestic violence situation". You're just telling them that she has been threatening you to show her state of mind. You need to find out how to get her license revoked so the guns can be taken away from her, and then she won't be a threat to anyone - including first responders!! - who might come to her home when she is in a medical crisis.
You don't say where mom lives. Depending on that, you might get some resistance from the licensing agency when you first call. That's ok. It's a sticky wicket to ask for someone's license to be revoked, be it driver's license or gun license. Licensing agencies have to walk a very fine line between people's individual rights and the safety of the general population. If you get resistance, politely but firmly start to ask to go up the "chain of command". If there is a process to obtain a license, then I assure you there is a process to revoke that license. Once the license is revoked, then arrangements can be made to go into mom's home and get the registered firearms. And at that point, since they will have due process to be able to enter the home, the agency removing the firearms can also look for any unlicensed firearms and remove them as well. It also puts mom more into "the radar" of the county agencies to see that she might need other intervention.
If you have anything you need me to clarify, feel free to PM me. I'll try to help as much as I can.
I am astounded and so disgusted by your responses on this thread. When a mentally ill person takes their own life, it is not the "coward's way out" like you said here. My God, do you have no empathy or human decency? I'm guessing no. @Lifeistooshort, You should start recording your mother's phone calls every time she calls you. This way there is a record of her making death threats to you and about other people to you. Then put these recordings into the hands of the police department where she lives. This way even if she showtimes perfectly and is nice as pie to the police when they check on her, they will take action. No one should have to lose their life so an old paranoid fool with dementia can have guns.
Burnt, you obviously didn't get the memo, I don't care what you think.
You have told people many times to scream at, ignore and otherwise abuse elders, so you and your opinions are like a homeless person's bung hole to me.
I have a question. Why is someone who has to have the police make regular welfare checks on them allowed to be in possession of guns? What is wrong with the police department in that town?
Guns (just as other personal property) cannot be taken without going through the proper procedures. Even with welfare checks, unless there's some sort of court direction, they remain hers until the police are told otherwise. The OP needs to use the justice system to their advantage and petition to have the firearms removed.
Based on your profile information, I would suggest you have a talk with your adult son. Tell him exactly how his grandmother treats you and that she threatens to kill you with a gun. Then he can decide whether or not he wants a relationship with a person who abuses his mother and threatens her. Then I would surpass the local police. If they're making wellness checks and have not taken the guns away from a paranoid elder with dementia, then they're useless in this situation. I would say make two phone calls.
1) To APS. Explain that your mother is a mentally ill, paranoid elder with dementia who's making threats, and lives alone in her home with guns. Make sure they know you live out-of-state and there's no family nearby for her to go to or who can help with caregiving.
2) Call the ATF (Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms). Tell them the same thing. That your paranoid, elderly mother with dementia has guns in the house and is making threats. You live out-of-state and there's no family nearby that can help with caregiving. Then tell them that the police haven't done anything about the guns and that you're afraid someone is going to get killed because someone is going to. What is going to happen is your mother will get increasingly more paranoid as her dementia worsens. The situation will not stop at just threats to you and certain family members. Someone is going to get hurt or killed if your mother is allowed to continue living alone with guns. Maybe the cashier at the grocery store gives her a dirty look. Or maybe the neighbors are "stealing" from her. Or the garbage men who pick up her trash every week are "spying" on her. I'm so sure you know what will come next. Don't think for a minute that elderly people with dementia are harmless. They're often dismissed by others as simply being paranoid old fools with dementia that aren't a threat to anyone. Your mother is dangerous. Maybe not immediately to you nine hours away. She is to everyone else and herself. There needs to be immediate intervention right now to get her help and to get the guns away from her.
You are absolutely correct!! I’m going to meet with my son to discuss this. My niece was planning to visit her next month, but my son contacted her and told her to not go!
You never mentioned your mother with dementia having GUNS in your last posts. What a dangerous situation!
I'd call APS and report her as a vulnerable elder with GUNS and DEMENTIA who refuses to leave her home. Let them go there with the POLICE to assess the situation.
Thank you for your response, but my mother does leave her home to go grocery shopping, doctor’s appointments and some errands. She never takes her guns away from her property.
Call the non-emergency law enforcement number. Tell them she has answered the door with a gun. Tell them she is a red flag situation and the guns need to be removed. Be prepared to not only explain what is taking place but know that no matter what happens, things could go badly and it isn't on you. Many states have red flag laws now that allow you to petition to take away weapons so that should be a viable answer if she really won't cooperate.
She hasn’t answered the door holding a gun, so I wouldn’t say that. I would only state factual actions. Thank you for the websites!! I’m checking them out now. The Red Flag Law is very informative and helpful, although it may be difficult if the parties live in different states.
Sounds like your mother has had paranoid thinking and talked about harming others in adulthood, that this is not just a new onset paranoia due to brain changes of dementia. I would suggest calling APS in her state, and give a detailed report of your concerns. Include the documentation you have of police visits, timeline of events/threats, list of weapons in the house, etc. Police may have reported her to APS in past...but that material is confidential. You have a different perspective. I think there is a high risk of harm to others....if she can see out her windows she can also shoot through them.
Yes, I agree with you to a point, but her hostility seems to be focused on a few family members only. Ironically, we are the only ones who call her, send gifts without it being a special occasion, and place wellness checks. The police “visits” were wellness checks that I have placed. I do not know if she has dementia or not.
Hey op, You say in profile that police come to visit when there is a worry about her welfare. She greets them with a surprise gun, loaded or not, disabled or not…and that’s a bad situation.
I’d normally recommend considering taking just enough time to go over there long enough to get her socially admitted thru the er, insisting unsafe discharge. She cannot have you or any caregiver in the home as she’d be threatening to kill them. Make sure to mention that she has guns. Then take the guns to the police, or if you don’t know where they are, invite the police to look around for them. That protects you from any allegation of stealing if after all the police have them.
However, if you think she may actually harm you, then you have to involve aps, who will at least be advising people in a professional capacity.
Yes, I played that scenario over and over with her answering the door with a gun! She has a lot of windows and thankfully will be able to see anyone in her driveway and front of her house. I will never go over to her home as long as she is alive, and I absolutely believe that she would harm me.
My son and I have searched our state and her state for elderly care accommodations, but she refused to leave her house. She has said for many years that she will die in her house. I'm not sure if she has dementia or not, but I know she has a lot of issues such as thinking everyone is trying to steal or stole from her, and everyone is trying to cause her harm. I agree that she should not have assess to guns, and felt that way for years, but she refuses to give them up. She claims that they are her only means of protection. I know she legally has 4 or more guns, and has taking many shooting/target practice over the years. I didn’t say anything in my profile about her threatening me with bodily harm because that behavior didn’t exist when I joined this group.
Mother is 90, lives alone? She doesn't always answer the phone for wellness checks? Is that right? When she does, volatile mood is typical. Now with threats to kill?
Could be she is just doing her thing, living her way, is quite fine but too hard of hearing to answer her phone. Could also be angry at aging, taking it out on you, being melodramatic.
Or could be living in squalor & not coping?
What did the Police wellfare checks report? Are they mandated to contact APS if concerned for her welfare?
Is your main concern that Mother WILL drive 9 hours to attempt to harm you? Or that she is losing her mind?
My mom is 91, and not hard of hearing. Her house is cluttered with papers (documents, receipts, medical information), but relatively clean. I wish I had taken pictures of that medical info the last time I was there, which was over 4 years ago. Her mood is always volatile with me now. She probably is having a hard time with aging because she was really pretty when she was younger. The police always says she is fine and was in the bathroom when I called, but I would call all day, so she lied. I believe she would call Life Alert monthly just for attention because she would never accept any help from them. I think she is losing/lost her mind although she would deny that possibility.
I'm going to assume you feel she is capable of violence or you wouldn't be asking this question. I'd record her murderous conversations and make a report to the police, both your local cops and those in her jurisdiction. Don't forget to emphasize that she has several guns.
This really depends on the specific nature of the threat.
I read a California Sunday story about how a lady with dementia had threatened to kill her roommate in snf. The roommate just laughed it off as no one was in the position to hurt anyone.
However, you sensing there is a real situation here indicates that there is one. I would do the er social admit route to see if meds can mitigate the behavior, and if not, a placement.
No, she is in a different state, about 9 hours away, but she drives and also has enough money to have someone to drive her to a different state. When we were on better terms, she would always talk about “blowing someone’s brains out, drag him/her to her shed, and CHOP him/her up!!!” She owns several guns!!
You stated your parent "threatened" bodily harm.
Most times, Threats are just "threats." Just don't put yourself in a situation where you believe you could get hurt.
It would also be good to discuss with him what he thinks is the best way to approach this. Is there any reason not to do this?
You say, "I think she is losing/lost her mind although she would deny that possibility." She can deny it all she wants but being angry, paranoid, making threats, "would always talk about “blowing someone’s brains out, drag him/her to her shed, and CHOP him/her up!!!” obvious is not normal behavior. She either has dementia or a mental health problem.
You say, "I have no intention of going anywhere near her. I’m glad we live in different states!" Do you really think she is going to get in the car and drive 9 hours to your location or hire someone to "drive her"? Because you "have no intention of going anywhere near her", it's hard to understand why you would contact her by phone? Her behavior is toxic.
Burntcaregiver gave you 2 good suggestions of who to call: APS and ATF. Does she live in a rural area? You may need to call the local Sheriff's Dept. When you called the local PD for a welfare checks, did you happen to mention her previous paranoid threats and the fact she owns SEVERAL firearms? If not, TELL THEM AGAIN. Get the officers' names who call you back with their "welfare check" results. Write down the date, time and these officers names. At this point you have put authorities "on notice" of a potentially dangerous individual with guns in their community. You are done.
Stop calling her or taking her calls. Maybe change your phone number. You say you don't get along. Why are you torturing yourself by contacting her? She told you she doesn't want help and wants to "die in her house." It's difficult because although you'll never go near her, you seem to still care about her either out of obligation or guilt. YOU need to figure out how this relationship is affecting YOU. Warn your son, any grandchildren or any relatives of her behavior. Myself, I would just leave her be.
Some posters would lead you to believe that recording the threat would get action. That is not true. We live in a country that words don't create action by authorities only actions create action.
If she hasn't done anything in a year she was probably being over dramatic to get you to leave her alone.
As sad as it is to be rejected totally by a supposed mthr, at least you know where you stand and you can let it go knowing it was her choice not yours.
I would feel like a true orphan and put her behind me. She has never been kind and loving to you, so stop giving her the ability to further hurt your heart.
Why I suggested it is because I had a similar situation with my father's former live-in girlfriend who I will call 'Alice'.
As everyone here knows I had his POA and when he had to go into care the money flow and support for 'Alice' stopped because the NH had to be paid for.
She started making calls to me at all hours day and night. She had a friend doing the same at her behest. Threats, profanity, you name it. This went on for about a month or so. I then recorded some of them and played them for the police. The police sent me over to the courthouse where not one but TWO restraining orders were issued. One for 'Alice' and one for her friend. The police delivered both. They were to have no contact with me themselves or through any third party for any reason. The friend had a legal and licensed firearm at home in her name. The police confiscated it temporarily because there was a restraining order against her. She had made threats to do violence with her gun. Her gun was returned to her after the duration of time (6 months) for the restraining order expired. She did have to complete several hours of gun safety training again and anger management hours.
I don't live in the same state as the OP. The police where I live took action. Recording the phone calls would still be worth doing because having a record of threats could be useful.
Yikes. Mom is threatening and has guns. Scary.
If these guns are illegally owned, then the police can absolutely seize them. And also, mom likely gets arrested for illegal possession of a firearm.
But you say mom legally owns these guns.
So here's the problem: if your mom has a license to own these guns, the police can't just come in and remove them. Even if, hypothetically, she used one illegally (at least in NY), when the prosecutor brought that case before a judge, there would have to be a request during the initial court proceedings to revoke the license on the other guns that weren't used in order for the police to be able to take possession of the other guns (the gun used illegally would be taken as arrest evidence, in accordance with the 4th Amendment).
My advice to you if you are trying to figure out a way to get those guns away from mom: do some research into her county on who is the licensing agency. For example, I had to apply to my County's Sherriff department for my license. So that's the agency that would have to start proceedings to revoke my license. You can probably google mom's resident county to find out how to get a gun license.
Then, contact that agency. Explain, calmly, what is going on. That you suspect mom has dementia, that she has been threatening you, that you are also IN FEAR that she is going to harm *someone else*. Tell them your primary goal is to get those guns away from mom, that you're NOT trying to make this into a domestic violence situation, because you are 9 hours away, and therefore in no immediate danger. This is an important point to make, because if it's not the local police that issue the license, you might be told to "contact the local police because it's a domestic violence situation". You're just telling them that she has been threatening you to show her state of mind. You need to find out how to get her license revoked so the guns can be taken away from her, and then she won't be a threat to anyone - including first responders!! - who might come to her home when she is in a medical crisis.
You don't say where mom lives. Depending on that, you might get some resistance from the licensing agency when you first call. That's ok. It's a sticky wicket to ask for someone's license to be revoked, be it driver's license or gun license. Licensing agencies have to walk a very fine line between people's individual rights and the safety of the general population. If you get resistance, politely but firmly start to ask to go up the "chain of command". If there is a process to obtain a license, then I assure you there is a process to revoke that license. Once the license is revoked, then arrangements can be made to go into mom's home and get the registered firearms. And at that point, since they will have due process to be able to enter the home, the agency removing the firearms can also look for any unlicensed firearms and remove them as well. It also puts mom more into "the radar" of the county agencies to see that she might need other intervention.
If you have anything you need me to clarify, feel free to PM me. I'll try to help as much as I can.
Good luck.
I am astounded and so disgusted by your responses on this thread. When a mentally ill person takes their own life, it is not the "coward's way out" like you said here.
My God, do you have no empathy or human decency? I'm guessing no.
@Lifeistooshort,
You should start recording your mother's phone calls every time she calls you. This way there is a record of her making death threats to you and about other people to you. Then put these recordings into the hands of the police department where she lives. This way even if she showtimes perfectly and is nice as pie to the police when they check on her, they will take action.
No one should have to lose their life so an old paranoid fool with dementia can have guns.
You have told people many times to scream at, ignore and otherwise abuse elders, so you and your opinions are like a homeless person's bung hole to me.
What is wrong with the police department in that town?
Then I would surpass the local police. If they're making wellness checks and have not taken the guns away from a paranoid elder with dementia, then they're useless in this situation.
I would say make two phone calls.
1) To APS. Explain that your mother is a mentally ill, paranoid elder with dementia who's making threats, and lives alone in her home with guns. Make sure they know you live out-of-state and there's no family nearby for her to go to or who can help with caregiving.
2) Call the ATF (Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms). Tell them the same thing. That your paranoid, elderly mother with dementia has guns in the house and is making threats. You live out-of-state and there's no family nearby that can help with caregiving. Then tell them that the police haven't done anything about the guns and that you're afraid someone is going to get killed because someone is going to.
What is going to happen is your mother will get increasingly more paranoid as her dementia worsens. The situation will not stop at just threats to you and certain family members. Someone is going to get hurt or killed if your mother is allowed to continue living alone with guns.
Maybe the cashier at the grocery store gives her a dirty look. Or maybe the neighbors are "stealing" from her. Or the garbage men who pick up her trash every week are "spying" on her.
I'm so sure you know what will come next. Don't think for a minute that elderly people with dementia are harmless. They're often dismissed by others as simply being paranoid old fools with dementia that aren't a threat to anyone.
Your mother is dangerous. Maybe not immediately to you nine hours away. She is to everyone else and herself. There needs to be immediate intervention right now to get her help and to get the guns away from her.
I'd call APS and report her as a vulnerable elder with GUNS and DEMENTIA who refuses to leave her home. Let them go there with the POLICE to assess the situation.
https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2021/10/05/red-flag-laws-are-saving-lives-they-could-save-more
Thank you for the websites!! I’m checking them out now.
The Red Flag Law is very informative and helpful, although it may be difficult if the parties live in different states.
What to do? Avoid them like the plague.
I would suggest calling APS in her state, and give a detailed report of your concerns. Include the documentation you have of police visits, timeline of events/threats, list of weapons in the house, etc.
Police may have reported her to APS in past...but that material is confidential. You have a different perspective.
I think there is a high risk of harm to others....if she can see out her windows she can also shoot through them.
The police “visits” were wellness checks that I have placed. I do not know if she has dementia or not.
You say in profile that police come to visit when there is a worry about her welfare. She greets them with a surprise gun, loaded or not, disabled or not…and that’s a bad situation.
I’d normally recommend considering taking just enough time to go over there long enough to get her socially admitted thru the er, insisting unsafe discharge. She cannot have you or any caregiver in the home as she’d be threatening to kill them. Make sure to mention that she has guns. Then take the guns to the police, or if you don’t know where they are, invite the police to look around for them. That protects you from any allegation of stealing if after all the police have them.
However, if you think she may actually harm you, then you have to involve aps, who will at least be advising people in a professional capacity.
I will never go over to her home as long as she is alive, and I absolutely believe that she would harm me.
You say nothing in your profile that she has threatened bodily harm.
I'm not sure if she has dementia or not, but I know she has a lot of issues such as thinking everyone is trying to steal or stole from her, and everyone is trying to
cause her harm.
I agree that she should not have assess to guns, and felt that way for years, but she refuses to give them up. She claims that they are her only means of protection. I know she legally has 4 or more guns, and has taking many shooting/target practice over the years.
I didn’t say anything in my profile about her threatening me with bodily harm because that behavior didn’t exist when I joined this group.
Could be she is just doing her thing, living her way, is quite fine but too hard of hearing to answer her phone. Could also be angry at aging, taking it out on you, being melodramatic.
Or could be living in squalor & not coping?
What did the Police wellfare checks report? Are they mandated to contact APS if concerned for her welfare?
Is your main concern that Mother WILL drive 9 hours to attempt to harm you?
Or that she is losing her mind?
She probably is having a hard time with aging because she was really pretty when she was younger.
The police always says she is fine and was in the bathroom when I called, but I would call all day, so she lied. I believe she would call Life Alert monthly just for attention because she would never accept any help from them.
I think she is losing/lost her mind although she would deny that possibility.
I read a California Sunday story about how a lady with dementia had threatened to kill her roommate in snf. The roommate just laughed it off as no one was in the position to hurt anyone.
However, you sensing there is a real situation here indicates that there is one. I would do the er social admit route to see if meds can mitigate the behavior, and if not, a placement.
Sorry you’re going thru this.
We live in different states, and unfortunately I know nothing about any of her doctors.
If she isn't really a "threat" use the information to judge her mental state and proceed accordingly.
If she lives close by, you need to protect yourself.
She owns several guns!!