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My 57 year old daughter wants control of my money.


I live alone, she doesn't want me to have a car, she will take me wherever I want to at her convenience. Is long suffering while she is being a wonderful daughter. I can't buy a dollar item without being told put that back you don't need it. She buys clothes for me and shoes rather than taking me shopping. We had a wonderful relationship I thought, as my friends died off it seemed wise to move close - not with, Thank God. My mind is great, I still play bridge on the computer, do puzzles every day, play cards at any opportunity. I lent a person some money. I and my husband both did this when he was alive. She is convinced I am being scammed, She is possibly right, I've had doubts and hired a detective, checked with FBI and other agencies. I told her I would stop sending money and in thanks she filed for guardianship. My cost in this matter is unbelievable. I don't pay anything THEY use my money to pay my lawyer, her lawyer, my sons lawyer, a doctor $500.00 mental exam and two mental health nurses. Who knows what they will charge. This is cruel and unnecessary.

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The kids can be the worst when it comes to fiscal exploitation and attitude.
Protect yourself, protect your assets. Network for resources you feel in your gut you can trust. I hope you have a best friend, or another relative you trust. So sorry you are being pressed... and you are definitely not alone in spirit with this nasty issue.
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We often hear about scams and how clever they are on here. This post has a lot of responses, some giving quite a lot of personal history and information. Behind each answer is a profile - if you filled one in. I have read just about every post and every reply to this OP and I am left concerned. Not for the OP nor for the daughter, but for those who have answered giving of their own circumstances. I find the OPs posts inconsistent with her actions, totally lucid but not able to tell daughter to take a hike, get a taxi, get on with her life, buy her own curtains, but able to move house, hire a detective, check with FBI having decided person she has been lending money to for some time may be scamming her, have more than one financial adviser and plenty of money. These inconsistencies in the narrative I am sorry to say are to me signs that this thread MAY not be genuine but a way to get information from the caring people on this group. I hope that I am wrong, but personally the idea that this forum could be trolled against those who are so caring and give so much to their LO, for some scam reason means I no longer wish to be linked with it. Keep safe EVERYONE.
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AT1234 Oct 2019
Thought the same- AFTER I too, posted!
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So happy for you that this was dismissed!

In addition to making changes to POAs, wills, etc, I would ask your own attorney about the court costs. If YOUR funds were used for all the costs, you may be able to recoup them. It is likely based on state laws, but your profile doesn't list a state, so you need to seek legal advice. Here's what I found online:

"If the judge creates a guardianship, the fees can be paid out of the ward’s estate. However, if the court does not appoint a guardian or finds that the application was filed in bad faith, the applicant may be denied reimbursement for the expenses he or she incurred in filing."

So, if your assets were used, I would certainly look into getting them back! Also, if you can recoup the assets, please let us know. Sometimes this question comes up and it would be useful to be able to advise others in the future if they are thinking about filing for guardianship, but are on 'shaky' grounds. It can be costly if one loses! I would hope ALL states have this provision, to discourage frivolous filings. If people are aware that it might cost them a pretty penny unless they have a clear cut case, they might think twice before proceeding!
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Request a competency hearing. If your daughter is assuming guardianship of your financial affairs and of you based on incompetence, then let her prove it. A doctor has to make that determination, is she one?
I am sorry your sense of independence is being infringed upon by your own loved one. Sometimes, we as children want to assume the role of parents without first discussing the parents actual needs.
You are still the parent no matter how old the child is, you have a say so unless deemed incompetent.
You seem to be still sharp in mind, don;t let anyone count you out just yet.
Talk to your medical doctor, this ought to start the process.

Our seniors are wells of wisdom for our younger generation. God bless you!
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worriedinCali Sep 2019
The OP has already updated us, she won.
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You sound very lucid and with it in your letter. That will work in your favor. A social worker will interview you as part of the guardianship procedure and must submit his/her findings to the court. If you are sharp and not displaying dementia, your daughter should be unable to obtain guardianship.
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AlvaDeer Aug 2019
She has already won. The case was dropped. See her comments below.
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Fighting over money and who has control over it will never heal what is going on between you and your daughter. And son. No amount of money in the world as a matter of fact can help this situation. You don't say if your daughter has an income, or your son? Or what you want your daughter to actually do on your behalf. Nothing? leave you alone? You may have moved closer but I think you are still miles apart in your relationship.
You are relying on your daughter to some degree and you don't like it at all. I get that, it makes you angry as h*ll. So, the closest to you has to take the blame and the wrath. What would you do if you didn't have a daughter or son? Not much said about him.
About the dollar item, she said you didn't need it? Did you already have it and didn't remember? If she is treating you very poorly, you should speak to someone about that. But there are two sides to every story, and pretty sure there is way more to this one.
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TXGirl82 Aug 2019
"You are relying on your daughter to some degree and you don't like it at all. I get that, it makes you angry as h*ll. So, the closest to you has to take the blame and the wrath."

I don't think the daughter is a victim here. If @lonelyandold is relying on her for too much, the daughter should consider finding a way, perhaps APART FROM SEEKING LEGAL GUARDIANSHIP, to set boundaries and make the situation tolerable.

Depriving an autonomous adult of her liberty is a very serious matter, and I am thankful to live in a time and place in which it is a difficult thing to do.

This is a hard situation, to be sure, and my heart aches for the family.
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Oh, I am so happy for you.

Great big hug!
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You must be immensely relieved, to say the least.

Only... now what?

The thing is, that person who you probably don't want to call any daughter of yours *at the moment* is still the same person who is the daughter you've loved since the day she was born. What could she do that would adequately explain her reasoning and start to repair the damage?

Life will go on, and you don't want the situation as is to be normal.
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AlvaDeer Aug 2019
The fact that Lonely and Old's daughter took over, filed for guardianship, and would not even let her pick out her own curtains honestly scares me for this woman's future. She has said several times that her own financial advisors have told her she could never really run out of money in a normal life expectancy, and this would indicate to me that there is some money involved here. I cannot conceivably begin to imagine what possessed a daughter to file for this guardianship when clearly there was no case for it, but were I the person I would now be turning over my management were it needed to a court appointed fiduciary, and would be in my lawyer's office to see how best I could protect myself from "family" who thinks they have my best interests to heart. This would be costly, there is no mistake, but I am thinking there is money here, and if so if worries me that someone tried to take lonely and old's autonomy from her.
Hard to judge these things from the little we get, but I am just saying at this point I would love my daughter like crazy, but would not have her in a position to manage my estate.
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Thank you all, after exam the case was dropped. I appreciate your comments.
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AlvaDeer Aug 2019
This is very good news, Lonely. I hope that you and your daughter will be able to mend your relationship. I think it may be a good idea if you appoint an uninterested fiduciary at this point to become your POA if you need help in future. That person would be an uninterested party and while it would be costly you have indicated that money is not a problem. You have said you already have financial advisors, and they would be able to give you some guidance in setting up a good contract with someone to manage your affairs if you no longer trust your daughter in these matters. Wishing you good luck going forward. So sorry you had to go through all this, and it had to be extremely upsetting.
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This topic seems to have really hit a nerve. I’ve absorbed so much expense on my moms behalf and will continue, but her version is all she believes and that’s what she tells people. Dementia sucks and while L&O doesn’t sound like there’s any decline I’m telling you on a good clear day my mother doesn’t either. Give folks the benefit of the doubt. Most daughters love their moms, I’m for showing a little grace.
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Oh Wow, Cali. I am putting your dad on my prayer list! Will burn an extra candle at mass for him. Geeeez, I’d feel exactly as you do about your dad behind the wheel.

I dated a guy with one arm. He lost his in a motorcycle accident years before I met him.

A light post had fallen in the street and it was nighttime so he couldn’t see it. He flipped the bike. He went flying off the bike, his arm was amputated in the hospital. He had an artificial arm but years ago they were clunky and he hated it so he didn’t wear it.

My dad put the fear of God in me about motorcycles so I never rode on them. So many horrible motorcycle accidents. My brother who is dead, survived a horrible motorcycle accident. They always terrified me. No protection, you and the pavement! A helmet won’t always save you.

I have steel rods rods in my arm from a bicycle accident years ago
so bicycles are not always safe either. I loved cycling!

Ironically, same thing happened to me as my old boyfriend. I didn’t see debris in street and I hit it, down I went. An angel, I swear this guy was an angel that stopped to help me and called 911 for me. He even waited until the ambulance got there, took my bike back to my house. He was a sweetheart. People like him restore our faith in humankind.
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I have to say I was lucky with that. My mom and dad were both very gracious about not being able to drive anymore. Okay, with mom it wasn’t a struggle. She had seizures years ago and you can’t get a license with seizures. Then Parkinson’s diagnosis, so she willingly said it was time to stop driving.

Daddy was sick with cancer, then heart issues, then his stroke and he didn’t argue about not driving. I have friends that had to take the keys away and that has to be a tough situation. I’m glad I didn’t have to deal with any of that.
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"My daughter doesn't want me to have a car" is not the same as "My daughter doesn't want me driving because she's worried that I may kill myself or kill others".

How many of us "kids" have been in that situation?
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freqflyer Aug 2019
Raising hand.

Even though my Dad was pretty much with it, I didn't want him to drive a car mainly because his reaction time had become very slow. Plus he was starting to deal with age related eye issues.
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I would probably tell her to heck right off. But your daughter’s behavior is very worrying to me. Why is she filing for guardianship? Did she give you a reason? Does she now have guardianship?

You sound completely “with it.” Maybe you need a better lawyer, one who specializes in elder law, including the laws surrounding elder abuse? Your daughter seems to be the problem here, if I’m understanding you correctly.

I would think that if you are competent to handle your own affairs, it’s not her business what you spend at the dollar store or anywhere else. Does she worry about your readiness to go into a long term care facility if the necessity ever arises?

My husband and I consulted an elder law attorney today about planning for long term care, and she answered a lot of questions about things we had been worried about.
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worriedinCali Aug 2019
I’m not making any assumptions about the OP but I think maybe some are forgetting that people can sound “completely with it” even when they aren’t. Showtiming....you know.
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lonelyandold: That is a contradiction saying "I don't pay anything [sic] THEY use my money ........"
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You’re right, CM

I wish we would have known to pursue it further. I think everyone was in pure shock over what happened.

If Karma is real this woman will be in trouble. That’s for sure! Elizabeth was one of the sweetest women I knew.

She always had cookies for the neighborhood children. She was an extremely independent woman. In her younger days she owned her own boutique in the French Quarter. Smart as a whip! She had an entire wall of books that she read. My children loved her just as I had loved her as a child.
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CM,

It is truly sad for the entire family, old and lonely and her children, heartbreaking...
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Whike waiting for the testing, do ehat you can to research at home care. I jad a friend at a NH on Medicaid, but the standard was that $75-100 a month of her income was available for her discretionary spending. She complained it was not enough, but she could buy her own curtains!

I siggest you tesearch in home care providers and have a primary preferred provider and 2 back ups. While these companies do background checks, many employees are not skilled and are self seeking. The homemakers are poorly paid.

On the other hand my GF thought he was totally competent to care for himself & his wife. For years he did so, but it revealed their recent 'flu' was food poisoning. He could not see mold on food and walls of the fridge. He kept driving and nearly hit a police officer directing traffic. Fortunately every one in the small town knew his car and got out of his way or there would have been more accidents.

The court may have appointed you a lawyer, but you can choose a different attorney if you don't feel well represented.

I agree with what others have shared. The neuro- psych tests are very very good at identifying specific types of neuro deficits! Our brains and self image can decieve us. It is akin to the alcoholic who thinks they don't have a problem. So trust these experts! Some illnesses as well as medications can impact consistent competency! Some tests can indicate a cause, others only the effect. I jave a Masters in this field, so I know of what I speak.

My neighbor hired private caretakers for her mom, nut one of them stole money, inflated her billing, and then isolated the mother from family, friends & neighbors, including filling false chatges with police on anyone she suspect had called to report Elder Abuse.
Another agency that was heavily advertising in the area had Supervising RN that wanted higher...more expensive...levels of care and reported the daughter as neglegent. Tirned out it was a sibling who was involved behind the scenes and got Mom to change her will & Trust 6 weeks before she died...long after 'professional service providers' said she was not competent to be in her home.

A wise friend of mine, my mother's generation decided a year ago to sell her home of 45 years and moved to a Condo. She has mafe new friends. Can walk to the heart of the town she has lived in all her life, and to the train for special events. So be open to adapting your life, to simplify as you age.

Our thoughts and prayers are with you.
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disgustedtoo Oct 2019
"Our brains and self image can decieve us."
I can agree with this statement, as it can/does happen to many people. Mom's "self image" was clearly distorted by dementia. She would always tell everyone she was fine, could take care of herself, was independent and could cook. Select D) None of the above.

HOWEVER, in this woman's case, she seems quite coherent and capable.

Does it strike anyone else as being odd that mom can get through selling a car AND a house, plus buying or renting a new place and moving, but when the big fat check is about to come through, suddenly mom isn't capable and must have a guardian??? Selling a house is no easy task nor is buying/renting!!!

If she bought a new home, consider the fact that at least the down payment would need to be paid BEFORE the proceeds from the sale were available, as the check from the sale was diverted to a legal trust before she could cash it, due to all the last minute guardianship crap. Even if she is renting, that requires first/last/security, which is a big chunk of change too, so clearly she has some decent assets. Sniff. Sniff. Snnnnniiiiffffff....

I still smell a large control freak at work.
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Grace and CM,

Yes, this woman was horrible. Unfortunately, the elderly lady was taken advantage of by her neighbor. She left everything to this woman in her will. She made everyone think she was her friend. She deceived her and others. So sad. You should have seen how quickly she sold the contents of her home in a freakin garage sale. It made us sick to our stomachs to see how she disrespected Elizabeth, especially quickly cremating her. Then passing out spoons to put her ashes in Elizabeth’s beautiful rose garden. It was disgusting! My parents cried.

Elizabeth wasn’t active in her faith as a senior. She couldn’t go to her synagogue. She was too sick. She would have never wanted to be cremated. That is why she had her plot paid for. She had no living relatives to watch out for her well being. She never married. No children. She was in her 90’s.

Her home was sold too. My mom said she was going to haunt the neighbor who had her cremated, sold her beautiful belongings in a garage sale and spooned her into the garden. She didn’t have any clergy present for her fiasco! Of course she didn’t call Elizabeth’s Rabbi!
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Countrymouse Aug 2019
That wouldn't have made any difference, her not being able to attend. Not that there's much they could have done about the cremation, obviously, but they might well have transplanted some soil from the garden to the burial plot, and they'd have certainly sunk their teeth into this woman's ankle until she coughed up headstone money, that's for sure.
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I HATE this new format;

This in recently from the OP:
"We had a hearing in front of a magistrate who awarded temporary guardianship to my son who now pays my bills and I have been denied any access to my accounts and it looks like I’ll get $100.00 a week. This stays in effect i’ll the case is heard by a judge. I agreed, it was this or my daughter taking over,".

Can you tell us why "it looks like" you'll get $100. per week? Is that what you asked for? Did your lawyer agree to that amount?
So, the son now has temporary guardianship. I think that there must have been pretty compelling evidence for the court to suggest this.
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Countrymouse Aug 2019
Yes, but it might have been compelling evidence that the daughter and mother were about to tear chunks off each other and they're playing for time.

My heart sinks for everyone in the family :(
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Lonely and Old, I don't know what day this week you have your testing. I hope that you will come back to us and let us know how it goes.
You say that you and your daughter cannot agree on curtains for YOUR room after you have lived with her for a year? I think if that is the case and since you say your brokers assure you that you cannot run out of money, then you should ask for a court appointed guardian should you need guardianship, and pay to have someone advocate for you to enter Assisted Living. The place where my brother is has one room and two rooms in cottages, even two units that are two rooms and a kitchen portion. There are tours and the buses go to various shopping malls several times a week. The people who work there are consistently so very nice and you will be allowed to PICK your OWN curtains. That is what I would do. I dearly love my daughter, but I don't know I could/should/would LIVE with her. Nor do I think it would be good for HER.
So give that some thought should it be suggested to you that you cannot live alone anymore.
That outcome would honestly surprise me, given your extremely articulate nature on this forum.
I hope you will get back to us. We are all pulling for you.
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disgustedtoo Oct 2019
AlvaDeer: "You say that you and your daughter cannot agree on curtains for YOUR room after you have lived with her for a year?"

OP doesn't live WITH her daughter, just near - she moved to be closer as she was aging, which is a SMART thing to do in many cases.

From the original post, just the relevant parts:

"I live alone..."
and
"...as my friends died off it seemed wise to move close - not with, Thank God."

It would be bad enough if daughter wouldn't let her chose curtains if she WERE living with her, but denying her choosing/buying curtains for her OWN home? That really smacks of control, unnecessary control.

Granted we don't have all the details, but daughter sounds like one giant control freak! I can understand watching out for LOs, or helping them to curtail frivolous spending (witness the dad who bought the 500+ chain saw that he can't lift and already has 3 others!), managing finances if need be, but to DO mom's shopping, not even allow her to go along and choose her own items and even telling her to put back $1 items??? c.o.n.t.r.o.l f.r.e.a.k.
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lonelyandold, be careful about changing your Will. You may find much later down the road that your daughter WAS your best advocate for your care and financial overseer. But by then you may not be able to change your Will back to what it once was :(
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pamzimmrrt Aug 2019
Ah yes, the power of "peeved off".. and so hard to fix down the road if a mental problem should arise.. Lawyers and financial advisors do well with this situation..
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How are you, lonely and old? Vent here if you need others to reach out to. We do care. I am caregiver to my mom since 2005. Most people here are or have been caregivers to their parents and want to help you in this trying time.
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lonelyandold, please do come back after your get the results of your examination.

My mother would agree with you, as she thought that *I* was trying to control her and steal her money. It was very hurtful.

There are two sides to every story.
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AT1234 Aug 2019
Amen to that.
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Is your daughter currently your Power of Attorney?
Is she fully apprised of your financial situation?
When you say "your broker and accountant"; are these fiduciaries and fee for service professionals or are they AUM folks, i.e. are you paying them a percentage of your very adequate funds each year? Perhaps THAT's what your daughter is upset about.

Paying a non-fiduciary 1% or more per year, in addition to the underlying expense ratios of funds, front loads and back loads, not to mention annuities that result in poor returns and big upfront paydays for the broker can and will bankrupt you.

My MIL was well provided for when my FIL died and was told that she'd never run out of money. This "advisor" placed her in very poor investments and charged her a fortune. She is now living a very financially reduced life. My ex and his brothers feel very sad that they didn't pay more attention to her finances early on.
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freqflyer Aug 2019
Excellent point, Barb.

My Dad had his own stock broker for over 40 years who was commission based. Here I am thinking how much the brokerage house took in each time Dad bought or sold stock/mutual funds/bonds. Dad was computer savvy and he could have done this work himself for less than $5 per transaction since Dad was really good at picking out funds. He didn't want to retire his broker, which I understood about his loyalty to this person. I do my own, my Dad was a good teacher when it came to financial assets.

Too bad we don't have 12% interest rates on savings accounts. That would be much easier on those who aren't interested in following Dow Jones. Gosh, I made pretty good interest just on savings accounts back then. Now I am lucky I get 5 cents on my account :P
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Lonelyandold do please keep in touch with us, regardless of the results of any tests or examinations.

I don't doubt your daughter believes she is doing her best for you. But then again, it wouldn't be the first time I'd thought "saints preserve us from people who are Only Trying To Help."

The non-communication with Daughter: is that on legal advice, are you too angry, is she too angry, or what? I'm still thinking ahead to how on earth you're going to get the genie back in the bottle once the guardianship issue is resolved, however it might be resolved.
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For what it’s worth, old and lonely, you sound like a very interesting woman. I wish you the very best. You don’t sound like you are going down without a fight. Good for you!

If you should need help and your daughter reaches out to you, I hope that you will allow her to. If she is wrong, I do hope she is gracious with you. I will be thinking of you and please let us know how you are doing.
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Lonely and old,

Okay, thanks for your honest reply. I understand how you feel. All families have had issues. Anyone that pretends there hasn’t ever been any problems are lying. You know that. All families have ups and downs. So, it’s okay if you need some space for yourself right now.

Hopefully soon, the hard part will be behind you. I still say that there is a possibility that your children are most likely looking out for your best interest. At least that is what I would like to believe. I sincerely do hope all goes well for all of you and you can resume a relationship in a healthy way. It may take some time to trust again or rebuild but don’t give up.

If a resolution can’t be reached I still hope that you are able to move forward and put this behind you. I wish you joy and peace in the future.

That is your business about changing your will. Of course it is your right to adjust your will to your liking. Let’s hope your daughter will be gracious if she loses. You certainly know your daughter better than any of us.
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Your children may genuinely be concerned for you. I know an old woman who is constantly lending money to people who never pay her back. Her son took control of her money because she was constantly being taken advantage of.

Maybe your children are afraid that you will do the same and are trying to protect you in the way they feel is best.

Would I be upset if I were you? I am sure that I would be. I hope it all works out for you. I hope they have nothing to worry about. If it does turn out in your favor how will you feel about them? Does this change things forever between you and your family?

Maybe family counseling will help all of you where you have an objective mediator to guide the conversation. Best of luck to you.
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lonelyandold Aug 2019
Ill be changing my will. I dont worry about running out of money and Im certainly nit going to lend anyone else. Ive never had a loan not paid back. I dont think my daughter will take it well if she doesn't win. Right now we are not communicating.
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LonelyandOld, this neuropsych evaluation is NOT to determine if you are "nuts". Fwiw, my mom said the same thing.

You have a lawyer to represent you at the competency hearing. Evidence from the neuropsych evaluation will be presented. (cognitive testing doesnt lie; IQ points and reasoning skills sometimes diminish because of strokes and other vascular issues.) It sounds to me like your adult children are mostly trying to protect you from harm and from outliving your resources.

What is your SWR from your portfolio? How do you determine when to make withdrawals? What is your AA and do you change it frequently based on fear-mongering news reports?

You sold your house. Where are you living now? How much capital gains tax will you owe?
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lonelyandold Aug 2019
No Barb, The doctor is coming to my home and I had to provide a female chaperone. Two mental health nurses are coming first....no chaperone needed.

My brokers and accountants assure me I will not run out of money and suggest I start spending it on things that make me happy. (Ive been here almost a year and daughter and I have not been able to agree on curtains so curtainless windows mostly.). I have borrowed burtains in the bedroom.
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