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Car dealerships are not psychiatrists and if they sold the truck with the father owning a valid State-issued driver's license and auto insurance how is this illegal. If you feel your father is not of sound mind, the responsibility is actually yours to not be his guardian/Power of Attorney. If the dealership got your father insured, the responsibility still was left up to you. It sounds like your father has to go to a nursing home or live with you for 24/7 care.

My question is why did you not revoke your father's driver's license. When my mom was no longer able to drive, I took her to motor vehicles and replaced her card with an Identification card. I did that to save some money on my auto insurance. I doubt any vehicle could have been sold to your father without a valid Driver's License.
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disgustedtoo Dec 2019
As at least one other posted, you don't need a valid driver's license to BUY a vehicle, just to drive it. I will agree that perhaps the family should have converted the license to just a state ID, but that is water over the dam.

I also don't agree with saying this man needs to be in a NH. NH is for those who need specialized nursing care. Not everyone qualifies to be in one, certainly not someone who has dementia, walks with a walker but has no real medical issue. It may be time to consider moving to MC soon, but perhaps someone should have tackled the license issue AND take over of the bank account.
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Find a Lawyer for the Elderly (Elder Lawyer) and take their advice, which hopefully will be to sue then for fraud, reckless endangerment, and abuse of an elder. He clearly was not fit to drive so they risked other people's lives as well as his.
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cetude Dec 2019
If he has a valid Driver's License how can the dealership can be accused of fraud? When my mom was no longer able to drive I simply took her to the motor vehicle registration place and got an identification card. They took away her driver's license, and I also saved some money from my car insurance premiums.
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Please get a good lawyer. This is totally wrong what the dealership did. All they wanted was his money
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MaryKathleen Dec 2019
That is all they want of anyone is their money, they aren't charities. They did nothing wrong. Just because a person is "old" and that is very a relative term, is no reason to deny them goods and services. I can remember when I thought 30 was old. That is discrimination. If they wouldn't sell me the truck (I am 85)I could and probably would sue their socks off.
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My dad is 89 years old with dementia too. Dad somehow drove himself to Sears going out of business sale and purchased a huge tractor on his credit card. Dad did not take it out of the store yet. My brother in law went to Sears explaining dad had dementia and should not have purchased the tractor. Sears claimed that the sales person spent quite amount of time with dad and never detected any mental incompatibility. Sears also stated all sales were final. We had no choice but pick up the tractor and suck it up. Most recently Mom and Dad's neighbor called my sister stating that the pavers were looking for payment. What pavers?! I am sure you have all had local driveway pavers come to your house with left over material in their truck. Well they came into the neighborhood and said the home owner (dad) authorized the job. Again we tried to explain dad has dementia and he can't authorize. My BIL told them to take us to court because no judge would appreciate them taking advantage of elderly and their materials have already been paid for by the last guy. This is too recent to know if we will be going to court. I feel your pain. I wish you the best of luck.
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Most states require proof of insurance to drive off the lot. Maybe it’s time for someone to take over his legal and financial for him.
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Call a lawyer asap and better business bureau.
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Consult an attorney, but probably little you can do. In Michigan you have a 3-day look back to cancel any contract. This would include car purchases. I’m going through this with my mother who had her car repossessed in May because she couldn’t make the payments (dealer oversold her and she made an impulse purchase). She has stage 4 lung and liver cancer, diabetes, COPD and MS. Edema in her legs and can barely walk without a walker. She just recently found a small “family” business who agreed to sell her a used car on payments which I’m sure are usurious. The car that was repossessed had multiple dings and scratches, but she blamed them on the size of the car, not her driving ability. I refused to help her find a car, and I will refuse to help her get out of trouble when it all goes sidewise. She is legally a competent adult. I was terribly frustrated with her primary doctor who I contacted for help in having her evaluated for driving competency. The state of Ohio (where she lives) allows doctors to submit to the bureau of licensing a statement that will trigger an evaluation to see if the individual is fit. The doctor refused to take action without permission from my mother, which of course she refused to give. As far as I am concerned the doctor is complicit in any damage or injury that will occur. I am starting to take the social workers’ attitude: people are allowed to make bad choices. Unless and until your father (and my mother) are deemed mentally incompetent -and it’s a high bar- they are allowed to conduct their business as they see fit. Sad but true, and when I think of how many older people are out there driving that shouldn’t be, it horrifies me that we don’t have a better system. As the baby boomers age, it will become more of a public safety concern.
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disgustedtoo Dec 2019
Sadly even when deemed "incompetent", they are still allowed to make choices. First to say this was our EC attorney. He told us we couldn't "drag mom out of the house" when we decided she needed to move to AL/MC but refused to consider moving ANYWHERE. We had to get "creative", because he said guardianship, the facility said no committals. Staff at mom's MC unit says they can't force any of the residents to do what they refuse, even medication/medical treatment. The only thing they can do is get creative and coax the person to comply.

So, even those with dementia have "rights."
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Needhelpwithmom, all I kept thinking was shame on this guy for selling the car to my Mother. Then I thought he’s probably thinking the same thing about ME! He’s probably thinking shame on that daughter for letting her 92 year old hunched over frail woman purchase a new car!!!! But thank god my Mother came to her senses and cancelled the contract. She NEVER in her whole life would ever impulse by anything!! She would mull everything over for days, weeks, and months. So when she signed on the dotted line I was in complete SHOCK!!
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NeedHelpWithMom Dec 2019
Geeeez! She caught the fever of buying a new car. Did she take it for the test drive? LOL. Sorry for laughing but I just had a crazy visual image of her driving a new car off the lot onto the street!

Elaine,

She was probably thinking of how fast she could get to the casino with her new car! Funny but true.
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Here in Louisiana there isn’t a cut off age for driving. How does that work? I suppose it’s a state by state decision. They only have to pass the eye test in my state. It seems like past a certain age a person should be required to take written and driving tests to test cognitive and physical abilities.

When I bought my new car last year they asked about insurance and license. I don’t know what is typical or even legal.

Sales people are going to sell cars. Should they? That’s their profession. They have an interested buyer. They aren’t going to send a customer away. Even if they would the next person will sell them a car.

I suppose the cancellation clause is the only protection for the elderly if the family feels they should no longer drive. Would a salesperson feel badly if someone sold their elderly family member a car? I’m sure they would but they would know that they were within their legal rights to do so.

I do feel badly for the elderly or their family if they get stuck with a large purchase that they can’t afford. The most important issue is about safety. Some elderly are okay to drive and some aren’t. Still, it’s not illegal to sell them a car. The more cars they sell, the bigger the paycheck. That is their incentive.

My near 98 year old cousin loves pretty cars! She buys new cars, expensive cars! She pays cash! She doesn’t want any notes at her age. She refuses to live with her children.

No one believes that she is that old. She doesn’t look it or act it. If all old people were like her it would be lovely. She’s upbeat and funny. She’s caring, still volunteers at church.

Her problem with driving is speeding tickets! Hahaha

She is not the hunched over little old lady who is creeping down the road. She is fiercely independent. She still cooks and cleans! If I had a guarantee of being like her I wouldn’t have any fear of getting old.
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I wonder what the responses would be if she was saying that her 79 year old dad took a check to pay cash for a truck and the dealership refused to sell it to him based on their opinion that he was to old to be driving.

They did nothing wrong and this is an expensive lesson, but publicly shaming the dealership would be a whole lot more expensive, they would sue for defamation, and they have deep pockets, think long and hard and consult an attorney before you go public saying they did something wrong.
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I can’t believe people are suggesting shaming the dealership. They did nothing wrong. My question is if your father is so bad off how did he have access to a checkbook and how did he manage to even get to the dealership?
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Isthisrealyreal Dec 2019
Exactly!
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Cautionary tale for anyone whose conflicted about taking the driver's license away.

The dealership did not take advantage but rather they do what car salesmen do i..e they sold a car.

Now that the car has an accident on its record, it's worth even less. Some lots won't even accept the truck to sell. List it on Craigslist and ask to put flyers up at the grocery store and diner. You're going to take a huge hit but I'd get rid of it ASAP.

And please cut up his driver's license!
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soninlaw58 Dec 2019
We finally got my MIL's primary care physician to do the paperwork to the DMV to not allow her to renew her license. He kept telling us to take her keys, but when we did that she called the Sheriff's Dept on us and the Deputy told us that as long as she had a license, nothing we could do and we had to give her the keys back.

Her license is good until January, but we do have her keys now as her mental state has seriously deteriorated in the last month. And we have daily fireworks around here about the keys. But she can't remember how to dial 911 (I think)

C'est la vie
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This happened to my Mother. I was there. It was 3 years ago and my mother was 92 and still driving and competent. Her 20 year old car literally died at the shop. Unrepairable without spending thousands of dollars. She said take me to the Toyota dealer. I’m buying a new car. Against my wishes I reluctantly agreed and took her to the dealer. She bought a new car. They wanted me to co-sign and I said no. Now my mother gambled all her money away and all she had was social security and a little pension. No savings account at all. They sold her the car. No age limit, no savings account, no job? NO PROBLEM!!!! They sold her the car. Luckily there was a 24 hour clause to cancel the contract . She came to her senses and called in the morning to cancel the contract. The dealership did NOTHING wrong!!!!!!
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NeedHelpWithMom Dec 2019
Elaine,

Oh my gosh! Co sign for a gambler? No way! You’re a smart woman. Thank God for the cancellation clause.
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Take it to the media.
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Isthisrealyreal Dec 2019
Why?
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Although the dealership is morally bankrupt and ethically challenged, it appears they have all their legal ducks in a row. There are laws against taking advantage of the elderly. The standard of financial abuse generally has to demonstrate some kind of coercion, manipulation, or undue influence of the elderly individual. None of that seems to apply here. However, I completely understand you wanting some justice. Your best opportunity may be to publicly shame the dealership. As others have suggested, you should contact local tv stations, news outlets and consumer protection groups. Definitely shine a light on these people through social media as well. Moving forward though, there’s probably a few things that need to happen. You already realize that his driver’s license needs to be turned in. But you also may want to take steps to have him deemed incompetent. He is no longer capable of making sound decisions on his own behalf. With that in mind, AL is probably no longer appropriate. He needs much closer supervision than what the average AL facility can provide. And if he’s depleted his finances, then you may have to file for medicaid. You’ve got a lot to deal with and I’m so sorry. In my experience, it can be very helpful to consult with an elder law attorney. You may decide not to retain their services, but I think it will give you peace of mind as you move forward. They can offer solid advice in an organized fashion at a time when you feel like you’re in a tornado. Good luck to you and your dad.
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Can't discriminate against the elderly, and they're not going to do a medical background check on every customer. You can't tell if someone has dementia just by looking at them, and plenty of people with walkers/wheelchairs/scooters still drive just fine. The dealership did nothing wrong.
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gdaughter Dec 2019
When someone comes in without any insurance it's a red flag. They exploited the situation and could have handled it with more finesse if they were decent people.
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I really am not sure if this would apply (especially with the accident), but isn’t there a 72 hr window where you can legally return the truck before the contract is binding? I’m just looking at alternatives and this sounds far fetched but anything is worth a try.

Good thing the dealership did manage to get him insured prior to purchasing the truck. That saved the day for your father & you.

My brother (who had schizophrenia but able to live alone and was quite good with paying bills and his finances) bought a truck in March of this year and died unexpectedly in June.
I read every paragraph in his contract with the dealer and bank (who financed the vehicle) for any loophole I could find and came up with nothing. It was a used truck so wasn’t expensive like your father’s was, but my brother did put a down payment of $5000 he had saved up for this purpose.

Salesman can’t and won’t verify the mental acuity of the buyer. They are not healthcare workers. Could you imagine the negative publicity the dealership would get if they refused to sell a car to an elderly person? You can’t expect them to do that, or call a family member to ask a person’s health status & mental acuity either. The dealer could open themselves up for lawsuits for elderly discrimination.

I tried to recoup something from that contract of my brother’s but got nowhere. And what a crappy deal he got from the dealer but my brother refused my offer to help negotiate a deal for the car he wanted and bought the truck without me even knowing he did. He told me a month or two afterwards and died 6/8.

I thought about trying to sell it but the title would have been changed so I could act on this and that was way too complicated. Fortunately you won’t have to do that. So I gave it back to the bank who now expects to get $8K out of me. (Dream on). Selling it can be a big PIA too. I washed my hands of it.

Good of luck and I hope you can recoup some of that $20K.
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worriedinCali Dec 2019
Theres no 3 day return period on cars and even if there was, the truck is wrecked so that wouldn’t help the OP because you wouldn’t be allowed to crash the car and then take it back and get out of paying....
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The insurance should pay for most of the truck repairs. You would probably be better off to get the truck fixed and sell it yourself. See if the local TV consumer reporter would run a story on how you need to sell the truck quickly or post your story to a local facebook community sales page. You might want to tell the dealership you are planning to publish your story so you can recover as much of your father's money as possible but you want to give them one last chance to step up and do the right thing before this unfortunate incident becomes general knowledge.
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gdaughter Dec 2019
Not to mention that the $4K to fix is no doubt a retail price and the dealership has the parts, labor etc to do for a fraction of that.
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Call your local elected officials, the newspaper and TV consumer reporters.

The dealership did nothing wrong, but you may be able to get help from the sources mentioned.
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There should be laws in place to protect the elderly from being taken advantage of. It is such a shame.
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gdaughter Dec 2019
Some states have consumer protection laws and it might be covered with that...
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I'm so sorry to read about these distressing events. In your information you do not say your father has dementia. How is the dealership supposed to know that your dad should not be purchasing a vehicle or even driving? They don't ask you any medical questions when you buy a vehicle or give you a test. I bought one last fall from a dealership and no one asked me about my mental state. They just showed me what I asked for and when I agreed on the price they wanted to see my driver's license. That's it. So why are they responsible? And everyone knows the minute you drive a vehicle off a lot it depreciates. Can you imagine if a car salesperson "suspected" someone "shouldn't" be buying a vehicle based on a hunch and they turned out to be wrong? Also, you will have to give proof of forgery...that's a serious charge. Do you have any way to prove it? Sorry, no one to blame here and truly sorry you are left holding the bag.
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gdaughter Dec 2019
Spoken by a former car salesperson and /or the devil's advocate!
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What a nightmare! I don’t have an answer but want to wish you well. Best of luck to you and your dad.
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