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My brother and I are health care POAs for mom, we have 2 aides with her. One works 5 days, the other 2 days. The 5-day aide is rude, screams and curses at me, hangs up on me. When I'm there she screams and curses to my face and goes into her room.
My mother is 97 with advanced dementia and cannot express very well but is virtually unresponsive when that aide is there, but is happy and communicates when any other aide is there. She takes marginally good care of mom but is so rude to me that I don't go to visit. Right now when I can't go at all (COVID) I can't get news about mom.
My brother loves the aide and is fighting my efforts to replace her. I don't know where to turn.

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Glad the aide is leaving at last
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Dstover Mar 29, 2020
Throw the aide out. If you work, take a leave absence and take care of your Mother until you find a new one.
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Really, traveling from NY to FLA. Don't people understand what stay in place means. She could be taking the virus with her, unless she was tested, or pick it up on the way. Hope they stop her and ask where she is going. She shouldn't be let out of the state.

Just looked up and NY state is now 1 with over 50k reported cases. NJ second with over 13K reported and most of them near the NY border. I hope this woman is stopped at the border and if she is not an essential she is turned back.
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ineedadvice Mar 29, 2020
JoAnn honestly I think she is totally lying to me about that.

She called 11:45am yesterday and said she will move the aide today (Sunday). Asked if we could delay it 2 weeks til the virus dies down. I said no it will be 2 months we should't wait. She said okay, it will be tomorrow.

AN HOUR LATER she calls to say she's driving to Florida for 3 weeks on Wednesday. Can we delay it 3 weeks.

I feel like an idiot. I said no to 2 weeks, and then I said yes to 3 weeks...
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TG it all worked out. In my post that was not complete, I said since u and brother are co POAs and you r the closest you should make the call when it comes to aides. You are the one who sees Mom and knows what is going on. Aide probably justified herself to him.


Your response when brother calls is Mom is unhappy. She was scared of this woman. That was abuse and she should be fired. Don't take his s _ _ t. Your responsibility is to your Mom.

I would suggest u taking over ordering groceries. Right now stores are delivering. Take an inventory of Moms kitchen. Order what she needs. If an aide makes her meals, then she would be eating with her so consider that. I think the aide was stealing food and that is why the grocery costs were high.
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ineedadvice Mar 29, 2020
Hi JoAnn
I have been ordering groceries from the start, every week. I go to the apartment and find the refrigerator and freezer are both so packed that you can't fit anything in there easily. The aide says that it is because she brings food in. I say 1) mom is not to eat the food you bring in and 2) if you are bringing food in, then why am I ordering food for both of you?

I never get a clear answer, she babbles something or other. And it continues. She makes the list, I place the order. It is always $150-$200 per week, even though mom has cereal for breakfast, yogurt/toast for lunch and then dinner. Twice a week, I have the aide order dinner from the facility's kitchen - so only the food I order is only for 5 nights a week.

Stores are not delivering - at least when I put the order together and try to find a delivery date, there are none available. Yesterday I brought groceries there and had to leave them at the gate.

You might be right - me and my husband were thinking either she is stealing food, or cooking for other people and selling it. She keeps a supply of hundreds of fridge containers and grocery bags.
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Hi you all. The woman who runs the agency called me. She said that she is REMOVING the aide. She hasn't told my brother yet. I am so relieved!! It should not have been this difficult to accomplish but I am very happy that it's done. She'll be moved out this week or next week.

She said that it will be difficult logistically. Generally if they are removing an aide, they show up when the aide's shift is over, help them pack up everything and escort them out. In this case, the aide has SO MUCH crap at the apartment that they might have to give her a day's notice. Not great because there is still some valuable stuff there, but I have photos of everything. I'm not going to think about that. I'm just going to celebrate... then wait to see what my brother's reaction will be. I hope he doesn't contact me.
THANK YOU all for your support!
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anonymous1010889 Mar 25, 2020
I’m glad you were able to get resolution. Hopefully there is no significant fallout with your brother. I wish you well moving forward and keeping my fingers crossed that the next aide is caring with your mother and respectful of everyone. Stay safe!
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Hi you all. The woman who runs the agency called me. She said that she is REMOVING the aide. She hasn't told my brother yet. I am so relieved!! It should not have been this difficult to accomplish but I am very happy that it's done. She'll be moved out this week or next week.

She said that it will be difficult logistically. Generally if they are removing an aide, they show up when the aide's shift is over, help them pack up everything and escort them out. In this case, the aide has SO MUCH crap at the apartment that they might have to give her a day's notice. Not great because there is still some valuable stuff there, but I have photos of everything. I'm not going to think about that. I'm just going to celebrate... then wait to see what my brother's reaction will be. I hope he doesn't contact me.
THANK YOU all for your support!
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This is why two people should not have shared responsibility of medical POAs or even financial. Should be a principle and secondary. I am assuming Mom is in
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JoAnn29 Mar 25, 2020
Looks like I screwed up on my post. I was going in and out and must have erased the rest. Doesn't matter now, she was able to get aide out.
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This website has a fantastic article on laughter. All of us could use this in our lives. Perhaps your aide could read it as well.
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Your aide works for a company and I can assure you that they have liability insurance against claims against them. Therefore, since they want you and your brother to be in agreement; type up a written notice, signed and notarized to them putting them and your brother on notice that you will not be treated by their employee in this manner. If the abuse toward you does not get corrected you will pursue this legally. Your mom should have an appointed case worker - and I would direct this to her as well. Brothers usually like to be in control, it is second nature to them.

It is also possible your aide has something else going on in her own life which is causing her to act out badly toward you. A pinch of kindness, a spoon of understanding, a gallon of patience is needed. First, in writing, notify her of your concerns and ask what can you do to rectify the situation. When we are upset and concerned sometimes the tone of our voice comes out harshly. Try a peaceful resolution on a one-to-one basis and perhaps there is a communication problem with the aide. If the aide was not like this in the beginning and has just developed this attitude - find out?

Let us know how it works out. You are responsible for your mother and you have a legal right that the agency and your brother need to respect.
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Er...

"I put a camera in mom's bedroom and one in the living room about a year ago. My brother removed the one in the living room right away, the one in the bedroom is still there but I expect he will tell the aide to remove it any day now. 
He said 2 days ago, ENOUGH WITH THE F... CAMERAS…. I DIDN’T TALK TO YOU FOR A YEAR BECAUSE YOU PUT UP THOSE CAMERAS!!!   MOM AND (aide) AND (his wife) AND I ARE ENTITTLED TO OUR PRIVACY!!! NONE OF US LIKE TO BE WATCHED LIKE DOGS IN A KENNEL! "

Your mother isn't living in your brother's house, is she? Tell me she isn't living in his home.

If this is not where he lives, but he still objects, can he or any other users switch off the camera if he or they choose not to be under surveillance?
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ineedadvice Mar 29, 2020
No mom lives in a very nice facility. No way he would have her living with him in his condo!!
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Ineedadvice, the point I was making is that you can (necessarily) only observe what your mother is like when the 5-day aide is there AND you are there. You can't observe how your mother gets on with her when you're not part of the equation. So it may be that it's the tension between you and the aide that impacts on your mother.

You told her to list items that are needed for your mother's house. She made a list. You told her the list was wrong, why hadn't she checked in the freezer? I'm not saying she's right, I'm not saying you're not quite right to want food used up in a sensible good-housekeeping way; but it may be that she feels she can't do right for doing wrong as far as you're concerned.

I make no excuse for her rudeness. I have met family members I long to slap (not because they criticise my shopping list, I hasten to add! - because they are being moronic about their loved ones' welfare) but I hope the day will never dawn when I am driven to swear at or verbally abuse them or behave in any inappropriate, unprofessional way.

But the way you're testing this woman... She is doing a very difficult and demanding job five days a week, and how are you supporting her in her role?

How about a good air-clearing session? Sit her down, tell her you want to be able to work with her, and lay down some fresh, practical, agreed ground rules.
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ineedadvice Mar 29, 2020
Hi again. We used to get along fine. I gave her a hug and kiss when I went to visit 2-3 times a weeks. Then there were some problems - like when the doctor went at the scheduled time to find mom alone. The aide just swept it away, said she was downstairs getting a snack, and mom always sleeps after her breakfast anyhow, so it was okay. I reported it and had the doctor send me a letter describing the situation (which I sent to the agency).
Then mom fell, cut herself, and the aide did not report it to the agency. I let it go the first time, mom was okay. The second time I waited a couple of days to see if she was reporting it. She did not and I told her she had to . She got very angry, yelled at me and left the room. That was about a year ago.
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Time for a nanny cam in your mom's room? Time to record your interactions with her? At 5 days a week that aid can't afford to lose your mom as a client. You have all the leverage, so why not exercise it? If what you write is true, it is absolutely intolerable. You should tell the agency you will report THEM for employing such a person if you can prove her behavior. Demand they send a more suitable person.
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Countrymouse Mar 25, 2020
This aide has been looking after the mother 'for years,' the OP says.

That's not someone you get rid of lightly.
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Thank you everyone for reading my post and sending replies!
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Dstover Mar 29, 2020
Are are your brother and this Aid married?
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Hi Grandma!
The aide and my brother get along very well. She is from an agency, yes. The agency is aware of my problem with her, I did explain it is unacceptable and unprofessional. I don't know why she's nice to my brother and not to me, except that I have commented on the excessive grocery orders, I notice when mom's wearing the same sweater and pants everyday for a week, etc. Yes there are always 3 sides - I don't know what my brother's side is, I don't know why he is more worried about the aide than he is about my mother.
I can't get this to post, I don't know why.

They can't do alternating days. This aide takes the train from the Bronx, she couldn't make 2 round trips a week.
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Hi Grandma!
The aide and my brother get along very well. She is from an agency, yes. The agency is aware of my problem with her, I did explain it is unacceptable and unprofessional. I don't know why she's nice to my brother and not to me, except that I have commented on the excessive PeaPod orders, I notice when mom's wearing the same sweater and pants everyday for a week, etc. Yes there are always 3 sides - I don't know what my brother's side is, I don't know why he is more worried about the aide than he is about my mother.

They can't do alternating days. This aide takes the train from the Bronx, she couldn't make 2 round trips a week.
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Hi Grandma!
The aide and my brother get along very well. She is from an agency, yes. The agency is aware of my problem with her, I did explain it is unacceptable and unprofessional. I don't know why she's nice to my brother and not to me, except that I have commented on the excessive PeaPod orders, I notice when mom's wearing the same sweater and pants everyday for a week, etc. Yes there are always 3 sides - I don't know what my brother's side is, I don't know why he is more worried about the aide than he is about my mother.

They can't do alternating days. This aide takes the train from the Bronx, she couldn't make 2 round trips a week.
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Doesn't your brother see how this thing is adversly affecting your mom?

It's not about you and the aide, it's about your mom's quality of life and from what you describe it is not improved by this thing.

Does he have a personal interest in her and that's why the blind eye?
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ineedadvice Mar 24, 2020
Hi thanks for replying! My mom is advanced dementia - at this point she usually recognizes and remembers me and my brother, but sometimes needs reminders who we are. Doesn't know or remember anyone or anything else. Doesn't remember the aides although they've been with her for years. My brother does know and has known for at least a year about this problem. I don't have to like the aides, they don't have to be my friends. I do have to feel they are doing a good job with mom and I do have to be able to communicate with them.
I don't think he has a personal interest in her - I can't figure out why he is so frantic about her not be let go.
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What actually matters is how mother feels about the aide. The part about mother's being quiet with Ms 5 Day but chirpy with Ms 2 Day, unfortunately, doesn't tell us how mother feels about the aide. It only tells us how mother responds when the OP and Ms 5 are in the same place - i.e. tense.

How did it come about that you and brother developed such radically opposed opinions about the same person? What are the bones of contention?

People are rarely rude and curse-y all by themselves (unless they are actually psychotic). For example, it doesn't usually go:

[ring, ring, ring, -

Aide: Smith residence, can I help you?
You: Hi Katie, how are you? Just calling to see how mom is this morning.
Aide: You go and [beep] yourself you [beep beep beeeeeeeeep] etc.


So. Do you know where all this began, or are you genuinely in the dark?
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ineedadvice Mar 24, 2020
Hi Countrymouse
How mom feels about the aide - she cannot verbalize. She cannot really have a conversation. But when this aide is there, mom is always saying that she wants to go home. (That is her home) When I'm there and I say "Do you want to go to the living room?" or someplace, she says "I don't think I'm allowed to."
As for being rude and cursing at me, it's because I object when she gives me a PeaPod list with meat and fish, but the freezer is chock full of meat and fish. And if I don't order exactly what's on her list, she says she won't make a list anymore.

The most recent cursing on the phone: She doesn't pick up the phone when I call, she doesn't answer my texts until about 24 hours later.
Friday night I called her cell phone while watching her leave my mother's bedroom, so I knew I wasn't interrupting her doing something or in the shower. No answer. I called the house phone, no answer. Saturday night I called again, same time and she answered. I said thank you for answering the phone. She said she was in the shower, I said no you were not. And then the yelling and cursing...
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Your mother is fine with the other aide but quiet with the rude aid. This is a red flag. Step in before it is too late. The aide seems unstable. Get protective services involved. We have to protect our elderly population. The best to you.
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Speak to the aide with your brother present, use speaker phone. This will enlighten him. If it doesn’t, then it’s time to consider what kind of relationship they might have
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ineedadvice Mar 24, 2020
My brother and I are not in the same room together. He doesn't care if I am having problems with the aide - he has said in the past that I should deal with it. I am very sure they are not having a "relationship." I just don't know why he is so frantic about her not being fired. My partner (boyfriend, we've lived together for 11 years) sees how unhappy mom is when that aide is there.He also can't figure out what my brother's attachment is.
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The aid thinks your brother controls the purse strings.   Or your brother is telling the aid that your are a POS
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worriedinCali Mar 24, 2020
Or maybe the OP is a POS? There are 3 sides to a story.
I’m not saying the OP is a POS. But it’s just as plausible the OP is the problem, not her brother. There’s absolutely no proof either her or her brother are the problem.
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Wow, that is terrible. Something is definitely wrong there, does your brother know how the aide is treating you? If not, he should. I would recommend making one of your phone calls to the aide with him secretly on the line so that he can witness how this aide is treating. Either a cell phone call on speaker phone, or if your house line has two phones, he can listen in on the other end. You need to make this problem known to him.

A home health aide should NEVER treat the family members like this, it is unprofessional! As for marginal- level care, if your mother is unresponsive during the time with this aide, that is NOT good care. Especially compared to her behavior with the other aide.

Sounds like you need to get a new aide, asap! Speak to your brother, tell him everything, take notes on how the aide treats you.
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ineedadvice Mar 24, 2020
Believe me Kim I want to. I've tried everything. A year ago, the podiatrist went there - I had called the aide day before to say he was coming between 11 and 1. He called me to say that no one was there. He went in, woke mom up, clipped her toenails and she went back to sleep. He was reluctant to leave her alone. I called and texted the aide, she finally got up there. I notified the agency director. She was going to fire the aide, but spoke to my brother and then said no, she would put her on probation instead.

Last week I told the agency director that we need a different aide. She is aware from the past that my brother doesn't want her fired. She said she would talk to him, then called me back to say that she can't remove her because my brother said no. We are equally in charge of mom's health care - any decision must be mutual. She said removing the aide should be mutual. I said that we don't have a contract with the aide - every Tuesday when she shows up, it has to be mutual.

I wish I could speak to my brother - it's just impossible
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Please do not take this wrong the way my answer is going to go.....
How does this person treat your brother?
If he is treated the same way I would proceed to look for another caregiver.
How was this person hired?
Are they from an agency? If so contact the agency and explain the situation and the behavior that is unacceptable and not at all professional.
If your brother is treated differently do you have any idea as to why?
Are you contributing at all to the volatile situation?
I have always said there are 3 sides to a story
Your side
Her side
Somewhere in between is the truth.

One compromise that might work.
Can the care giver you get along with work 2 alternating days and the other work alternating. So the one you get along with could work Tuesday and Thursday so you could get 2 visits in alternating days. You would see her just as often but it would be broken up.
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ineedadvice Mar 24, 2020
Hi Grandma!
The aide and my brother get along very well. She is from an agency, yes. The agency is aware of my problem with her, I did explain it is unacceptable and unprofessional. I don't know why she's nice to my brother and not to me, except that I have commented on the excessive grocery orders, I notice when mom's wearing the same sweater and pants everyday for a week, etc. Yes there are always 3 sides - I don't know what my brother's side is, I don't know why he is more worried about the aide than he is about my mother.
I can't get this to post, I don't know why.
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