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My mother went to a rehab facility after hospital stay. During her stay she had chest pains and went to the ER. They found 3 blockages and fixed them. She then went back into the rehab facility/SNF. She was supposed to be discharged Wednesday. My father went to the facility and agreed to private-pay for a month. However, he did not return with payment and is not returning their phone calls.


I spoke with him yesterday and this was what he said


His attorney advised him to not pay and not to have contact with them.


The facility would have no choice but to keep her. He also asked me not to have any contact with the nursing home and if I did not to tell them anything.


My father has been her caretaker for the last year-and-a-half due to a leg amputation. He wants to put her in a nursing home permanently so he does not have to care for her any longer.


He has been working with an attorney to separate the assets and whatever else needs to be done legally so that Medicaid will pay for her to be in the nursing facility.


All legalities should be finalized next week.


My mother was okay with staying another month so she could get physical therapy with her leg.


As of yesterday, she is extremely frightened and scared of what's going to happen to her because they have not heard from my father. Because of the unknown, and his lack of response, now she wants to go home.


Basically he is not going to pay and just left her there.


I also have a power of attorney for my Mother's medical and financial.


My question is:


What are the options for the SNF if he doesn't make the payment today and he refused to tell them anything? Which I already know, he will not. From an SNF standpoint what happens to my mother?


Are they legally obligated to keep her? Do they contact legal officials such as social services etc?


If pick her up and take her to her home, well that make me legally responsible for her care?


Once all the legalities are finalized early next week, and if she is home and does not want to go back once Medicaid is setup to psy. Can he force her to return to the SNF against her will?


If not, what happens if he simply leaves the house and refuses to care for her?


I realize I have lots of questions, but if you could give me the legal answers to the above I would appreciate it.


Should I inform the SNF that he has been advised by his attorney not to make this payment and all legal paperwork will be done early next week so Medicaid will pay? Are they legally responsible to keep her if I tell them what's going on?


What options does the SNF have if no one picks her up today?


Is there an organization or person that I can speak with that can advise me on what to do?


Thank you

Do not take her home (where your father won't take care of her) or to YOUR home. Whatever you are told, it will not be temporary and they will not help you to find a placement for her.

Please consult an elder attorney ASAP.

Keep us updated.
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Reply to CTTN55
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I am thinking about what I would do in this situation. I would call my father and tell him as her POA you need to meet with his lawyer to understand what all is going on and bring your questions. You are being left out of the decisions here it seems.
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gladimhere Aug 9, 2020
Attorney would be in violation of attorney/client privlege. Only dad would be able to allow a conversation like that.
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Is this an elder law attorney? If not, get one. Mom is entitled to one half of their liquid assets in most states. So, there has to be a period of private pay until her half is spent down.

Do not pick mom up.
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DO NOT PICK UP YOUR MOM. To my mind your father is placing your mother, and rightly so, and he is handling it as he should with legal help.
Here is what will happen with the SNF. They will threaten. They will ask for medicare or medicaid extension through Social Services, which they may get or may not get. Moot point because the cost will likely not be a lot more than private placement care.
Your father is doing the correct thing with the assets. This is what must be done now and it needs professional help. Your Mom is beyond what he can do in care and beyond what YOU can do in care. The SNF will say and do anything to THREATEN you and to get SOMEONE/ANYONE to get your mother. You simply say no one can now physically of mentally take on her care and she will require placement and they should get their Social Workers busy with that immediately. They will say "Impossible because of Covid". That is end of conversation. Your father is correct. Do not speak with them. And of course you CAN speak with your mother. They have no right to block your calls.
Let your father alone. This is hard enough for him to take care of this. Offer him your support and love. Unless you suspect there is some nefarious thing afoot here, this is exactly how it should work.
The SNF cannot do an unsafe discharge. The worst they can do is bill your dad and her, and if they don't pay ruin their credit. It is unlikely they NEED credit at this point. That is the ultimate worst. They can place her if they can find placement. That won't be easy.
As a nurse all my life that is my opinion. Wishing you luck. Sorry for all the pain and confusion. Leave this to Dad and the Lawyer. Covid will make it all worse.Sorry; can't be helped.
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BarbBrooklyn Aug 7, 2020
Alva, given your long experience with the system, I am loathe to disagree with you. But the thing is, the OP's mom appointed HER POA and not her husband. Unless the dad is being totally transparent with her, there is a clear conflict of interest.

I get that the dad is totally stressed; per the OP's profile, the mom has dementia (in addition to the physical issues that were presented). I totally get why and how the dad may need to step away from caregiving. But the OP has an obligation to make sure that her mom's best interersts are being looked after.

In the end, it depends upon how much the OP trusts her dad.
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From everything I've read here on this forum there is no way your father can hide marital assets and dump your mother's care on the state, whatever he is doing is likely going to cause a very difficult legal tangle to sort out - I agree with Gladimhere that you my need your own legal advice.
Putting that aside, your father has the right to step away as a caregiver when it becomes too much, you need to figure out what kind of care your mother needs and how you can best provide it.
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Just so everyone knows it only makes sense to have a younger offspring or family member be the POA. Since they don't kick in until you are unavailable, yes, I know that they are valid from signing depending on what the POA states, but no elderly person knows when they will need their POA to step in, actually none of us do. Especially if dementia is involved, you can't change it if dad dies 1st. So having someone that has greater odds of being available for the rest of your life is very prudent.

Their is nothing said to indicate that dad is up to no good and even if he is, he won't get away with it. There is nothing financial that the government doesn't know about.

He is doing the right thing based on his legal counsels instruction. He isn't saying he is not going to pay, he is saying next week when he is protected then he will deal with it.

We are forever telling people to protect themselves from financial ruin by seeking legal advice BEFORE doing anything.

That is what he is doing, she will be getting her legal share, no attorney wants to risk their license for Medicaid fraud. They obviously don't have enough money to pay an attorney to lose his/her livelihood because if they did they would just pay for the care.
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Reply to Isthisrealyreal
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having read your profile, I see that your mother has a lot of physical problems as well as dementia. That is a LOT for your father to handle and I suspect he’s burned out. My husband is physically healthy but his mind is galloping away from him and there are days I don’t think I can stand to have one more insane conversation with him, answer the same question one more time or hear AGAIN the story of how he came to Washington. It must be so much worse for your dad, who’s also handling several physical ailments on top of the dementia issues.

When he met with the facility, I’m sure they pressured him into agreeing to pay for the month. Once he got out of there, he may have realized he needed a long term plan and consulted an attorney. I agree with the posters who encourage you to talk with your dad if that’s possible. I don’t understand the posters who are anxious to see that your mom get her share of the marital assets. Anything she gets will disappear VERY quickly to pay for NH care. Unless your dad has been abusive or neglectful of your mom, I would encourage you to do what you can to ensure that he is financially protected as he seeks appropriate care for your mom. You say he’s cared for her for the last year and a half. Based on my own experience, I’d bet life with her got pretty challenging for him LONG before she was diagnosed with dementia. My husband and I went to marriage counseling more than once before I realized he had cognitive impairment. Friends from my support group said they had the same experience. Long before you identify the real problem, you wonder why your loving spouse has become so self-centered. To others, they often seem fine for years, when the person who lives with them is going crazy at home. One reason they seem fine is that their spouse is taking over so many tasks they used to handle and helping them in so many ways. In my situation, my husband became an incredibly cheerful guy without a care in the world, while I got more and more stressed, snappish, and negative.

I definitely agree with the posters who tell you not to take your mom home. Once she’s home there is zero incentive for anyone to help you find a suitable alternative and, if you haven’t done it, you can’t possibly know how difficult it is to care for someone. You won’t be able to leave your house without having someone there for her. I now pay someone to come for 4 hrs (the minimum) once a week so I can get out. Unfortunately, this I usually spend this time grocery shopping. The isolation of caregiving is debilitating all by itself. I’m lucky in that we can get out with friends once or twice a month since my husband is not physically disabled. You may not get this luxury with your mom.
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mstrbill Aug 9, 2020
That is a great response, thank you
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I apologize I have not read as thoughouly as I usually try to - legal matters go straight over my head.

What's the relationship like between the OP & Father?
Sound alike he's reached his line in the sand. Could they join forces to get Mom the care she needs?

It's heartbreaking to realise your Dad feels he has no other choice but abandonment.

This started happened to a friend. The Father just couldn't go on. When he admitted that to the family, councelling & more help was found & the Mother was able to stay home. I would hope I can find the right accommodation for my folks if care at home is no longer working for one of them.

What a stressful time. I hope it works out.
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Reply to Beatty
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Saying you cannot provide the care and refuse to pick her up IS NOT abandonment, neglect or abusive. It is the opposite, dad has reached his end and may actually be preventing the same. He cannot be forced to provide her care, by doing this he is trying to get the care she needs and deserves.

Medicaid issues aside, they will get straightened out. It would be abuse and unlawful if rehab kicked her out without a plan for care that all have agreed to. Rehab would be getting the attorney to defend their actions, abandonment of a vulnerable person.

Mom has dementia she does not knw what is going on. Though i am sure this is hurtful to daughter.
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mstrbill Aug 9, 2020
Exactly. Glad your here too. Some of the comments here implying the father is next to evil without knowing all the facts and details are beyond infuriating.
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One of the major problems here is the laws are not always the same from state to state. I have been able to get valuable information from my local Alzheimers association., There are lawyers that specialty in Elder care And they can help you find one. I also suggest you get into some therapy or join a local CareTakers group ASAP. You are in a situation every one of us would dread . And “Ah but for the grace of god” we could either be in your position or you moms .. prayers are with you ..
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