I am the DPOA for my mom. She is in end stages of Parkinson's and was in a nursing home. She made the remarks she would rather kill herself than live like this anymore and the nursing home told me she had to go to a geriatric psychiatric unit for evaluation. She has been there over a week and she is just declining and I don't see where this place is helping her. As DPOA do I have the right to take her out of there and bring her home?

I am so sorry that you all are enduring this now. I believe that the NH jumped the gun on sending her to the psych ward. How long had she been there? Last month, my mother made comments about wanting to die or kill herself. She got mad about something (neither she nor I can remember what). Their protocol is to have a nurse talk to the resident and find out if they have tried to set up any means of committing suicide. If not, they refer her to the facility psychiatrist and report this to the family. They determined that my mother was just frustrated and blowing off steam, and grieving over my father’s death. Many reasons for expressing this.

I expect your mother is in a NH because you were unable to take care of her at home. How fortunate you are to live close by to be able to see her so often! I would call in Hospice to evaluate her. This would give her an extra layer of care in her end stage of Parkinson's. I would also set up a care plan to address the suicide talk, so they don’t try to send her back to the psych ward. The facility doctor could prescribe something for the hallucinations also.

Several people have told you to bring her home. I may have missed something, but I understood your mother’s talk of “not wanting to live like this anymore” as referring to her Parkinson’s disease, not specifically the nursing home. It sounds to me that you have an ideal situation with you living so close. I remember a poster who had been caring for his wife for sometime. She had Parkinson’s or Alzheimers and was end stage. He was exhausted and burnt out prior to the placement but described how he would come to be with her every day and was able to go home and sleep uninterrupted. This enabled him to be that more present for her at the end of her life.

Please let us know how your mother and you and your family are doing. I am praying for you.
Helpful Answer (11)
Reply to Treeartist

Thank you everyone for your advice and compassion for my mom and I! We spoke to the Social Worker last night and they are in agreement with us that she should be released back to the nursing home as quickly as possible. Trying to get her released today if they can get the doctors to get the paperwork in order. If not will be Monday. I pray it is today, she can't take another day in there. We explained to them how much she has declined and how we believe it is not only the PD, but the fact that she has gone into complete depression because she has been isolated from us. I live literally right next door to the NH she was in and would see her almost everyday for 2-4 hours at a time. I think they finally see what we have been trying to tell them. They had never seen my mom before and didn't know what her norm was. She is far from her normal self at this point. They sent her there because she said she would rather kill herself than live like this anymore. She has thought that for a long time, but never in a million years would she take her own life. She is a christian and has prayed every night for a while now for God to take her. I can only hope when we get her back to the NH and are able to be with her it will give her comfort. She has always asked that we please don't let her die alone. I couldn't sleep much last night from worry . I just kept praying they can get her released today.
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Reply to PDcaregiver
Kittybee Feb 21, 2020
Good luck! Let us know what happens.
You do, almost certainly, if you get MD permission and can care for her. Do understand that your mother may have now had enough, may indeed wish to be released from this hell from which there is no upside coming; get palliative care and hospice consult and speak with them and your mother about her wishes. Please try to honor her wishes. I am so sorry you are going through this.
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Reply to AlvaDeer
Frog007 Feb 23, 2020
I agree, go get mom. I also agree 24/7 help. Are you prepared for that. Hospice is iffy you can not call an ambulance you must call Hospice only.

The NH was uncomfortable when your mother talked about wanting to die, and wanted to have her evaluated by the Geriatric Unit. Fine, that’s now happened, and you and mother would like her to go back to the NH. Go and talk about it with the NH, and suggest that she comes back and gets Hospice in the NH. She is end-stage, not happy, and of course she is getting worse rather than better. Hospice where you are all comfortable is more appropriate than ‘suicide watch’ in a psych ward.
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Reply to MargaretMcKen
NeedHelpWithMom Feb 20, 2020
Yes! Hospice can help here.
So many people are getting worked up over this situation and making assumptions that may not be true.

The truth is that any time a patient starts making remarks about "killing themselves," a facility is obligated to obtain a psychiatric evaluation, because that patient is considered a "suicide risk." The NH was covering themselves, legally. If they ignored it and the patient did manage to kill themselves, the State could come in and shut them down.

Have you obtained a list of the medications she is on? If not, you need to do that immediately and review the meds with the nurse there. If there has been a big change in her medications, it could be contributing to her decline.

You could take her "out of there and bring her home" - but are you really equipped to deal with that? What if the hallucinations are all part of her late-stage Parkinson's and she will continue to hallucinate in your home?
Helpful Answer (7)
Reply to dragonflower

Why do people immediately jump to the conclusion that an elderly person with a condition that will never get better is a psych case for wanting to die instead of riding it to the end?

even those deep in Parkinson’s often have times of complete clarity. Imagine realizing you predicament in one of those moments....wouldn’t you prefer to find another way?

so many places acknowledge the right to die with dignity on their own time table.

so, this NH had her moved to psych care....

imagine this was you. Wouldn’t you see that there is no one going to help you and the situation is actually hopeless. The only thing left to do is just give up and see if you can will yourself to die.

if, under these circumstances, my Mom had told me she wanted to die.....I would have figured out how and where she could legally be allowed to do this....and taken her there.
my father in law did exactly that....only back then... the place you had to go was the Netherlands.
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Reply to Katiekate
jacobsonbob Feb 23, 2020
I wonder if the reason for sending her to a psych ward is basically a "CYA" issue--if the patient manages to kill herself, they're afraid they'll be accused of not having done everything they could to prevent is, leaving them open to some kind of legal issues. They may really know that in either place there is nothing that can be done to improve her condition, but feel they have to jump through all the hoops to prove they've tried.

At least in the US, it might be that the fortunate person is the one who can get through life without being sued.
She has been there for 10 days and they have done evaluations and have her on Zoloft. It is not helping. Parkinson's patients get to this point and even her PD doctor has said she may be at a point where no meds will help the hallucinations. Told us at her last appointment to cherish the next 2-3 months because she is at the end stage. We are a very close knit family and everyone will pitch in to help. We just don't want her at a place where we are only allowed to visit her from 2pm-4pm 3 days a week and weekends. I live literally right next door to the nursing home she was in and would see her almost everyday for 2-4 hours a day. She needs us close. She begs us every time to please take her home.
Helpful Answer (5)
Reply to PDcaregiver
AlvaDeer Feb 20, 2020
Please consult with hospice now. So sorry. Please help your Mom by honoring her wishes now to be taken home and allowed to die.
Go get your mama!
Helpful Answer (5)
Reply to OhMyMe2
rovana Feb 20, 2020
No, first talk to doctors - mom may be too sick to be cared for at home.
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Update on my mom! Thank you to everyone who has replied and given information, advice and well wishes. We did get with the nurses and go over all of mom's meds and they had her on Vicadon and Zoloft along with her Seroquel, Nuplazid, and Clonazapam....all of these together is what was causing my mom to be so out of it. Got the doctor to take away the vicadon and that alone helped her be more alert. The clonazapam is now a PRN. After speaking with the psychiatrist, social worker and nurses mom stayed through the weekend and on Monday was doing so well that they agreed she was good to go back to the nursing home on Tuesday. Tuesday when my aunt and I went to pick her up. They informed us that she had started having the hallucinations and paranoia again, but they believed it was because they had ran out of her Nuplazid, which I had brought with me from the nursing home when she was admitted. they had ben tryin to get it through their pharmacy, but couldn't. They called the NH and explained that the reason for it returning was due to not being able to get the Nuplazid and the nursing home wasn't sure they wanted to take her back without it and couldn't order it in till she was physically what to do? Well, I told them I would take her home with me till could get it back in her system and they decided they would confer with mom's Neurologist and get his opinion. He agreed that it would work and so finally 2 hours later they agreed to take her back. She is now at the NH and started back on the Nuplazid. I haven't seen my mom this good in a while! Hopefully now that we have found what helps her Neurologist can stay up on it. Thanks again everyone for everything!
Helpful Answer (5)
Reply to PDcaregiver
NeedHelpWithMom Feb 27, 2020
So glad your meeting went well. Meds do needs adjusting at times. I have had to adjust my blood pressure medication from time to time. Happens with a lot of meds.
Why are so many pushing hospice? I would keep them far away.

Make sure that the nurses have not been given your Mom Haldol or another antipsychotic. Sometimes, doctors and nurses will lie. They give medications like this that lead to further brain damage.

Once, you have your Mom home, make sure to get her on MCT oil, Vitamins B1, B3, B12, D, and C. This will help her brain health.
Helpful Answer (4)
Reply to Mustlovedogs
NeedHelpWithMom Feb 20, 2020
Hospice can be a wonderful service! Why wouldn’t a person want palliative care at the end of their life? They are dying!

Why are you talking about supplements? Supplements are for people that are not dying! Dying people deserve to die with dignity and to be as comfortable as they can be. That means without pain! Whatever it takes to accomplish that, morphine or anything else, give it to them.
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