Hi all,
New here but I found a few threads that I liked reading and figured I'd submit my own scenario for input.
I'm a late 30s guy with a father who retired a few years ago (he's in his early 70s). All his life he's worked hard to support the family but he always had one unfortunate pastime (gambling). He is divorced from my mother and they have minimal contact. He also doesn't have much contact with my other siblings. On a recent call with me he even told me I'm his favorite as I'm the only one who even calls him a) and b) I still call him and acknowledge him as dad.
I've never supported his gambling and only until recently (within the last 5 years), I've stopped giving him cash for presents. Yes, I know it's not my right to govern how he spends his money or how he entertains himself. He lives alone several thousands of miles away from me and I call him from time to time. I do know he has a few family friends that he goes and gambles with. They're 2 elderly women who wouldn't otherwise get to go to the casino without him driving together.
The issue here is that tonight on a whim I figured I'd call to check in (especially with Christmas coming up). I was trying to suss out how can I help care for him even though I'm several thousands of miles away. He initially asked if I was flying home for Christmas and I told him no due to the pandemic. He seemed to understand and cited that other family members (his siblings and his mother) were also not flying home for Christmas.
Then out of nowhere he mentioned that at one point in time I asked him for money and even chewed him out saying how life was so difficult and I needed money. He continued to report that he went to the bank and sent me money despite it all.
I know this is going to sound one sided, but I have a professional role and I've basically cared for myself since I was 18. I moved out went to college, graduate school, etc...I've never ever asked him or certainly anyone else for money.
So long story short, what do I do? He's saying he sent me $2300 exactly. I asked when...just give me a time of reference because it truly escapes me. I even repeated my name..I was like this is NAME calling you and are you sure it was me? Was I in the hospital? Did I have amnesia? He states he never saved a receipt and all he could tell me was the name of my bank. He said that he might have my bank account number somewhere. Even with my bank account number I don't know what that'd prove. The bank that I used to have back in the day only keeps records for 7 years and I know for a fact I've not asked him for money ever (much less 7 years ago).
I'm super confused and conflicted. To end the call I said I'm not mad here, but I'm just trying to understand what transpired. He proceeded to tell me that he was mad and that we were done talking at that point and then he hung up the phone on me.
I'm a persistent person so I wont give up on calling him, but how do I navigate this situation?
Finally what do I get a father who doesn't really need anything because he's mostly a loner, but goes gambling with 2 older family friends to pass his time? I really don't want to fuel his gambling habit.
When I called him and introduced myself, he refused to believe me when I said that I had just learned about his existence the day before. He insisted that he had met me at my grandfather's funeral. I said no, because my grandfather had died before I was born. He wouldn't believe me. He kept saying that all my life I had ignored him, and now I was pretending that I had just found out about him and was trying to get in good with him just so that he would leave me money when he died.
I tried and tried to convince him that I had never met him, but he wouldn't believe me. He called me a liar and said that he didn't like liars. I tried calling him a few times after that, but he just kept on calling me a liar, so I finally stopped calling. When I told this story to a cousin, she said that our great-uncle must have confused me with her, because she went to our grandfather's funeral.
That's why I'm convinced that your father gave $2,300 to someone else and is now convinced that he gave it to you. And that's why I believe that there isn't anything you can do about it.
I'm very sorry.
Welcome to the forum -
I too, agree with "earlybird" in that he needs the money. Either to pay a debt and/or to continue gambling. Maybe he's even giving some money to the two ladies that go with him.
My mom's whole side of the family loves to gamble including my mom. As others have said there's a variety of reasons for it - boredom, it's a distraction from the problems of life i.e. escapism, some find it exciting with all the sounds and visuals and some see it as a means to socialize when they are lonely just like other people who are drinkers go to bars chatting up everybody and of course, some think they'll get rich quick instead of realizing it's the casinos that get rich even quicker. I can tell you that one of my uncles and his wife who had lived in their longtime home outside of Denver lost their house after he eventually lost ALL their money. The house had to be sold and they moved in with their daughter (my cousin) for several years until they were able to get a small condo. He was 80-ish at the time when he took a job as a Walmart greeter for awhile.
Is it possible that when your dad told you about having sent you $2,300 so long ago that he didn't think you would ask him so many questions and you would just repay him as opposed to saying he sent it to you last year knowing you'd probably remember never receiving anything? He may be mad because he knows you are most likely the only option to get that kind of money from since the other siblings aren't really involved in his life. I think his anger is partly because you didn't respond like he thought you would and because it's part of the addiction from the frustration when one doesn't have anymore money to gamble with. In essence he's throwing a tantrum because he isn't getting what he wants and is placing blame on you instead of taking responsibility for his gambling problem.
It's good that you aren't giving him money as a gift. The only thing I could get my mom was to give her gift cards to grocery stores and restaurants or I would give her favorite boxes of candy, the gift boxes of a variety of coffees - things she enjoyed eating/drinking and a lot of times my gift was taking her out to breakfast, lunch or dinner. I would just create a homemade coupon, wrap it and it would say "Good for..."
I know the other issue for you is "repairing/establishing" a relationship with him. But, you need to remember one thing - no matter what type of relationship you have with someone, it takes both parties to make it a relationship. It can't be all you or one-sided. Your dad has to cooperate and at the moment as long as he's mad that will be very difficult.
I wish you and your dad the best as you try to find a way to work this out!
Has your dad ever had an extra $2,300 to loan?
Can you remember him ever loaning money to anyone? Did he buy you a car, pay your tuition, fly you out to see him? Anything ever?
What does he give you for Christmas?
Go see him one day after the Covid. Take him fishing or on a picnic. Hang out. That would be a nice gift.
Thanks for replying. Honestly, no. Not to my knowledge has he ever had that sum of money. He never went to college so he was at best making about 30-40k a year (that’s being generous). I’ve never ever heard of him lending anyone any sum of money. He’s never flown out to see me nor has he flown me anywhere. He doesn’t really leave his state it seems. He definitely never paid for my tuition or bought me anything. We weren’t a wealthy family by any means growing up and we were probably lower to middle class at best.
I honestly don’t know where this sum is coming from and I can only think of maybe you know as a kid I needed braces, I needed a tonsillectomy, I fractured my right foot, and I had a few minor health issues here and there but from what I understand we were insured and I don’t think he would’ve had to pay $2300 then and certainly bring it up to me now in my late 30s for something that happened to me as a kid. (I would hope not that would be mortifying actually).
honestly if my dad were to ask me to take him on a trip somewhere to ..Hawaii to Australia to Asia I would not hesitate at all. I would find the time to takeoff from work pay for everything and go with him. I would be elated if he asked for that but something like that would never even cross his mind. all I’ve ever known is that he’s always wanted cash as presents. Regarding what he gets me for Christmas...nothing I’ve asked for nothing for over 10years. in my family and in our culture it’s pretty customary for older family members to give younger family members money ($20-$50) for the holidays but even then I’ve stopped him from doing that for 10 years too.
you’re right! Can’t wait for covid to be under control so I can fly out and see what’s up.
thanks again!
My concern would be that he's gotten himself in trouble, and that's why he crated a scenario that you owed him money.
I don't have any suggestions; gambling is something that's addictive, and I think feeds a deeper need but I don't have any insights into that. I don't want to alarm you, but I would be considered about his safety and ability to live not only independently, but with the resources he needs to support him.
I wish I could offer some advice and suggestions but right now I can't think of anything that wouldn't obligate and trap you into providing more money. If you could lend him the money and be assured this wouldn't happen again, I'd consider that, but gambling is addictive, and if he's able to use this excuse now, it could open more doors to further requests in the future.
Thank you for your reply. You're totally right and that was the first thought in my mind that something is wrong. I hope he hasn't taken out a gambling debt but I fear he may have.
I started to ask about his health and he told me he sees a general practitioner every few months. He even gave me the physician's name and the clinic. I didn't press him on that after I initially told him I couldn't find the doc on the internet, but he gave me an address for the clinic anyway hah! I work in the health field so I guess he thinks I'll call the clinic and ask for his records and such (I would never as I'm not his POA and he's technically still able).
I am concerned about his resources otherwise, but I do know he gets a rather decent monthly retirement and he truly shouldn't have many daily expenses (especially since he doesn't need to pay rent/mortgage as he's living in grandma's house).
I don't want to lend him money honestly. Again, it's third party info from my mom, but she claims she paid off a very sizeable gambling debt of his years ago. Unfortunately I was not part of that narrative when all that was happening.
Thank you again GardenArtist!
I am sorry your father is a gambler. Many older people who retire are just bored out of their minds from not having anything meaningful to do, and so many of them find their ways to the casinos for easy entertainment. Then, they get addicted. I do know some of those retirees, and unfortunately one of them is my aunt. Every month, she gambles all her SS and pension money until none is left, then she stays home until the next pay day. Sigh...
Your dad's story. Why did he bring it up? Did he want you to repay? Do you think he could have confused you for one of your siblings who perhaps did ask for money?
He's upset because you don't believe him, and by questioning him further and further, it implied that you thought he got it wrong or made it up.
As to your question on how to navigate the situation, you already said you would continue calling him, that is good. Do continue calling and checking on him as usual. He might be mad now, but I am guessing his hurt feeling will subside eventually.
I suggest you not bring up the money story and ask for proof. Whether he made it up or he really thought he lent you money, he won't be getting that money from you, so let it slide if he doesn't bring it up again.
You can't buy in to his version of reality, gambling losses will make people do and say anything to get more money. It's as bad as a drug addict and the lows they stoop to for their fix.
This is truly a situation where help is not helpful.
If you feel like you should pay him the money he claims you owe, make him put the total in writing and make him give you a paid in full receipt. Because he will feel like he can squeeze you in the future if he thought for 1 second that he got away with this.
I, personally, would not pay a made up debt. I would ask if he is having financial problems and if he needs a loan. If yes, I would make him prove what his finances look like and help him make a budget so he can see how much expendable income he has monthly to blow at the casino. If he won't show you then you don't help.
I am sorry to say that all the sweet talk is a manipulation tactic to make you feel obligated, turn a deaf ear to it. His actions speak louder than his words.
Best of luck standing up to your dad.
That's a great suggestion. If it got to it, I probably would seek legal intervention just so it's "documented." I'd hate to go down this route and pay him for something I know is made up, but I don't want to see him suffer either.
Thank you for your suggestion on the approach. It definitely sounds like something I'd pursue and ask about (his financial problems if any, as well as the budgets and what not). Our family has never been good about saving and it took me much too long in my adult life to learn, but I've managed to do so rather successfully over the past decade or so.
You're so right about the sweet talk. I had not considered that, but when reading this the "light bulb" totally lit up in my head.
Thank you again for your support!
Then go to Goldbelly.com and send him 2 lbs of Italian cookies from Carlos Bakery from The Cake Boss himself, Buddy Valastro, wishing him a Merry Christmas and happy New Year.
That's what I'm worried about that he is literally trying to con me for a made up sum. This is unfortunate because I've never ever had this type of interaction with him. I even asked him...why mention this now out of all the other times I call him...he didn't have a good response to that.
Saying I'm running low on cash would be an outright lie. I mean I'm no millionaire, but he knows my profession and where I live so that wouldn't add up.
I kind of want to pay him for this made up sum, but then in thinking to myself...so then what happens after that? Will other made up sums follow? I did get a chuckle though with sending him italian cookies hah! (he would never eat them...he's always had bad teeth and would curse me out for sending him something with a crunch or chew!)
Thanks for your reply. Yes I definitely feel I haven't lost it yet and I would remember something so significant. I even asked him...what did I ask you for money for? He said you wanted it to pay rent. Right then and there I knew something was off.
Gambling really sucks that's for sure!
I would be just as puzzled as you. At his age I imagine that you are concerned if he is experiencing some type of cognitive decline. Are there any health issues that he is struggling with?
I am sure that you are also wondering if he is trying to manipulate you into giving him money.
Who knows? I guess you can start by questioning others. Start with your family to see if he has told the same story to any of them.
You could ask his gambling pals if they know of any gambling debts.
Gambling is an addiction for some people. I suspect that played a part in his divorce from your mom.
Do you have a gut instinct on any of this? I understand that you have feelings for your dad. Naturally, you are concerned for his well being and I suspect that you are scratching your head too.
Of course, this is disturbing to you, especially since you know that you haven’t borrowed any money from him or anyone.
Has he ever been in serious debt before due to gambling? Does he pay his bills?
Tell us a bit more if you don’t mind.
I am very sorry that you are dealing with this situation.
You are seeking answers about your dad. I would want to know what the entire story is too so I could determine what to do. I hope that you can work it out but if you can’t, have peace knowing that you have nothing to feel guilty about.
Best wishes to you and your family. Take care.
I do think it is a bit of manipulation, but mainly because I know he knows that I'm doing well enough and could likely easily give him the money. But that's where he's wrong. I don't pay in to delusions especially for a pastime that I find no objective value in. I did call my mom and asked and she adamantly replied that I did no such thing. I even asked was I hospitalized or something and I can't remember this truly? My mom and my dad don't have the best relationship since their divorce. Part of me also has to be careful to filter what some of my mom tells me as it's usually third-party info (she's friends with one of my dad's gambling "buddies").
He has been in serious debt before (but again this is my mom's story) so bad to the point my mom took pity on him and spent her savings (post divorce) and paid off his debts that he took from the casino and credit cards. It's a 5 figure debt he took, but again, this is according to my mom who I don't believe would make this story up, but it's not something I can technically just go to my dad and mention because I'm already put in an odd spot being in the middle of my parents divorce after I had moved out of the house.
I could speak with one of the gambling "pals" but honestly one of them is a big gossiper/tall-tale-like woman. The other woman is probably in her upper 80s and it would be weird for me just to outright call her since I probably have spent no more than 5 minutes with her ever in my life.
I'm honestly not sure what current debts he has. He retired about 5 years ago and gets a decent retirement income (about 1500). He lives in the state where the cost of living isn't bad and he's living in my grandmother's house so there's no rental expenses there either. He does pay the utilities otherwise but I can't imagine it being that much.
I'm super conflicted and perplexed. Thanks for reading and thank you for your support.