In September of last year my mother became very ill & was rushed to the ER. She was admitted and underwent two surgeries back to back. Well, two days apart. She had open inguinal hernia surgery due to obstruction and strangulation. They removed almost 7 inches of her small intestine. Two days later she was still not doing good, she went into kidney and respiratory failure and had some sort of infection going on. The only thing they could do was open her up. They found several small perforations & repaired them. She was in the hospital 13 days. I have been her caregiver since. We have always lived together, me, my 3 younger kids, my 24 year old daughter and her. My brother lives in another state (they have not had any type of relationship, prior to 2018 that had not spoken since 1995), & my other brother is deceased. So, it only made sense for me to be her caregiver. Since October, I have noticed that she is struggling with her memory & a lot of changes in her behavior. She will ask me questions repeatedly, she becomes fixated on things, like Facebook-saying people are on it and she doesn't know how they got on it, taking our dog out-despite the fact she will see me or one of the kids take her out, she tells us to do it every 5 minutes. Up until she lost her phone recently at the hospital, she would also fixate on texting her now ex boss & district manager, she would ask me repeatedly about pictures she text to them, saying they text them to her, and lastly her bank account. She was checking it so many times a day, I could not tell you how many times, but it was a lot. At one point she would get up locked out daily due to her not entering her password correctly. She would have me get on the phone with the bank & have them help reset the password. The last time I did it, with her right there, was about 4 days before she went back in the hospital this most recent time (Jan 27). They told her then that it could not be unlocked anymore, that she would have to come into a branch & show her ID, due to fraud prevention. I had to call 911 because she was acting, saying weird things & throwing up a lot. While in the hospital, she told the hospital social worker that I had removed her name off of her bank account, which is NOT true. She also told them that she worked the Sunday prior & that her job kept her wages & any tips she was owed, which was also NOT true. She has not worked since 09/21/2019. My mom prior to being is and always has been very vindictive & spiteful. I think she told them that because she got mad I could not get her password reset for her over the phone. She has had other delusions besides her thinking I did that & that she worked recently. The social worker at the hospital did not ask me, she accused me and was very hateful to me. I explained to her in front of my mom what happened & that she has not worked. My mom kicked me out of her hospital room. The social worker caught me in the hallway & demanded proof that those things were not true. I had to come home get, my moms LOA paperwork and call the bank on speaker phone for them to tell her that NO ONE has done anything or changed anything on my mom's account. She still called APS. They showed up 2/13, instead of my mom telling the truth that she had a delusion. She over talked me, as well as the APS lady. Finally, I got to explain to her what my mom did & how she told me to just get over it. My mom interjects & yells at me to stop bringing up the past, that I was not perfect. The lady from APS, told me to not argue w/her to let her be. My thing is this, what is going to happen now? My mom does not have a POA, she refuses to go get evaluated for dementia, she refuses to take care of herself, anytime I tell her it is time to do her treatment or time for her to exercise or inquire about her fluid intake so she doesn't get dehydrated, she tells me I am just trying to control her; that she will call APS on me if I don't leave her alone. What do I do?

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I think you already know where this is headed. Shes already told you, i think you should believe her. Can you call APS and make a report that she wont take care of herself ( and if shes not incompetent, they will tell you she has that right), and is threatening you, that she will report you to APS because she doesnt want to comply with her drs orders.....this is a tough spot...however, your FIRST responsibility is to YOUR children, not your mother. So you just may have to go through the legal eviction procedure. Me personally, i would do whatever i had to to protect my children...because they will suffer as a result of her actions. If/when she goes back to the hospital or if she gets violent, call 911 and let the ER deal with her. And absolutely REFUSE to accept her back into your home!! Again, she has told you what she will do, believe her; otherwise you and your childrens lives will become a living hell.
Helpful Answer (9)
Reply to cherokeegrrl54
icecoldfelicia Feb 17, 2020
I do 100% believe her! From what I was told today since we share an apartment; is that she has every right to come back here. If she were to be hospitalized again, that is. I was told that I could contact the apartments to find out if we could sublet the apartment. If that is permissible and of course with her agreeing to do so, then yes I can part ways with her. If I just up and leave, they mentioned something about elder abandonment. The person who is her contact from APS is hard to understand due to a very thick accent. I am assuming since, I am her "emergency contact" on all of her doctor's paperwork, at the hospital and I gave permission when they had to do the second surgery; they are trying to pin me as her legal caregiver. I started recording my mom in the beginning of November or on Halloween. Nonetheless, I have a lot of audio of her and how she has the meltdowns and the things she says. I have her recorded starting in on me the day she threatened me with APS. I also have saved every single receipt. Everything that is communicated with her home healthcare is done via text and every phone call coming in and out of my phone is recorded. I am getting camera system, something like nest, but cheaper. I have to protect myself at all costs. Another thing I was told today, was that if she tells us to buy one of us something using her money, that is exploitation. BUT, me using my child support (the little I get) or my own money to buy her things she asks for (because she doesn't have the money to most of the time, it is not exploitation). I am not being petty, but it is crazy how they design the system. There are times when she does have money in her account and will tell us to pick up her medicine, but not give us her debit card. Especially if one of us is out running errands or if my daughter is at work. She will then say she will pay us back when we get home, but again never does. Or she will wait until she hears us say we need something, and say "oh just use my card to get it". I was told that could be viewed as exploitation. Our lease is not up until the beginning of next year, so this is really sucky for me!
The next time Mom goes to the hospital and of course she WILL soon enough, refuse to take her home. Tell them you cannot care for her any more for mental, physical and safety reasons. Tell them she cannot return to your home (am assuming it is your home; you say you live together, but it is not clear whose home it is. If it is hers you will need to leave and return to work). Then tell the Social Worker that you do not want guardianship, POA or any other say over your Mom; tell them you hope she will be a ward of the state as there is nothing you can do now to help her, and have no powers to do so. She/he (Social Worker) will of course do everything sh/he can to trick you into taking Mom home with you. Do not do so. They will promise they can help. They will not help. It should be clear to you now where all this is going, and it is going to get very much worse. Whether your Mom suffers from dementia or mental illness is at this point neither here nor there as she can easily live another two decades or more.
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Reply to AlvaDeer

Oh my...I'm so sorry you have to endure this draining drama. You asked what to do, and I think the answer depends on what outcome you can live with.

She is resistant and you have no legal authority for her. Do you want legal authority to act in her own best interests? If so you will need to pursue legal guardianship through the courts. This will cost money, time and emotional energy since you will need to tell the judge, in front of your mom, that she is incapacitated, and you will need to prove it.

If you don't think you want to go down that road, then you can allow the county to take guardianship over her.

Who's home do you live in: hers or yours? If you live in her house, you should move out. If she lives in yours, you can tell her to leave and if she doesn't you can evict her (again a legal process but not thru the courts, and a fee to file the form, post the eviction notice for 30 days and after that I think you can have cops come take her, somewhere, which is the question in this option).

I think others will suggest you wait until her next trip to the ER then refuse to take her back (tell them it is unsafe). I'm not sure if you can do this if it's her house. Once the hospital is unable to release her the county will get involved and eventually get guardianship and place her in a facility. You will be able to carry on your relationship with her (if she allows it) but you will no longer have any say in anything like her finances, her healthcare, what facility she's in. You won't be privy to any of that info.

Again, I'm sorry that these options are not very savory. But you have young children, and they must come first, along with your sanity. May you gain wisdom and peace as you work through this.
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Reply to Geaton777
icecoldfelicia Feb 17, 2020
I told them that this time. I told them, that she has to go up two flights of stairs. That it is not safe for her and that I felt she was not ready to come home. And they still sent her home. The social worker at the hospital became really crappy and rude to my mom once she found out my mom lied. My mom really had them fooled with this little sweet old lady act. Yes, I know she has some memory and or psychological issues going on, but she has always, always been very cunning and a good actor. All of my concerns with her, when it comes to her doctors, clinicians, home healthcare have fell on deaf ears.
First, you can prove what she is saying is untrue. The Nurse may have done u a favor. You proved to her Mom was delusional. APS works both ways. To protect the person they have been asked to help and to help the family. I would say Mom showed the caseworker there is a problem. And because of this the caseworker can help you get Mom the help she needs. So lets not jump the gun right now. Wait till the findings come thru.

And, I would keep her phone locked. She is abusing it. I would not appreciate a former employee hounding me all the time.
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Reply to JoAnn29
icecoldfelicia Feb 17, 2020
She no longer has it. She lost it or left it at the hospital on her most recent visit. I think she left it on the bed or the chair, the last time we seen it, it was in her hand. That is another thing she is mad at, that I won't rush out and get her another one. She has been through two phones is a short amount of time. Getting her one is not a priority. I told her that I have a phone, my oldest daughter has one too, and everyone that she knows has both of our phone numbers. Again, she starts with "I want to control her" or that we're isolating her. It beats all I have ever seen. I do not want to get old. I do not want to put my kids through this. Thinking of me or the possibility of me doing this to them, makes me physically hurt.
From Felicia's profile: "I am caring for my mother Glenda, who is 72 years old, living in my home with age-related decline, alzheimer's / dementia, anxiety, depression, lung disease, mobility problems, and vision problems."

So she's living in your home. How is everything paid for? Do you work? Does your mother pay for the living expenses?

If she is living with you in your home, the ER dump could work. But do expect the social worker to try and convince you to take your mother home.

This is not fair to your children. They come first.
Helpful Answer (4)
Reply to CTTN55

First I need to say this.

You are hurt, very worried, and very upset. I don't blame you, I would be too.

But. You say your mother is and always has been very vindictive and spiteful.

Really? Why would you move in with a person you believe to be very vindictive and spiteful? Why would you make the major commitment of taking on a joint lease with her and sharing your home and your children's home with her?

So I wonder if how you feel about your mother now has more to do with how she has been since she became ill than how she is normally, when she's well.

What's happening is horrible and stressful. But as far as you can, don't add blame to all the problems.

Your mother's illness clearly is affecting her ability to reason and remember, but that's not her fault. God willing, she will recover, she's only 72 and it's reasonable to hope. Don't let how she's behaving while she's ill cause more damage than you can help.

The APS officer had to follow up your mother's complaint, no option about it: I'm sorry if she didn't go about her job in a proportionate, calm way - she should have done, she should have remembered that accusations coming from someone who is very ill may hurt completely innocent people if they're not handled carefully - but don't blame her for doing her job.

The thing to concentrate on more than anything is the disease that is causing this dreadful trouble. What took her back to hospital at the end of last month? Are you your mother's health proxy, or do you at least have HIPAA authorisation, or your mother's consent to share her medical information?

Meanwhile, let APS be a support to you. Now that they understand the situation they can help and advise you, especially when it comes to things like managing your mother's care when your mother can't or won't give you POA and can't take care of herself.
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Reply to Countrymouse

Ask about breaking the lease because of medical conditions. It never hurts to ask. Find out how long an apartment stays empty in your complex, because by law they can only collect on your lease for the amount of time it sets empty, they have to mitigate their losses. Meaning that they have to prepare the apartment and actively try to rent it.

I would ask them what they would find a workable notice and can they work with you. Maybe you could just move you and your children to a different apartment in the same complex.

I would tell my mom that she stops making things harder then they have to be or I am moving out and she can figure out what to do. Give her 30 days and then leave if she doesn't stop.

Unless she has been declared legally incompetent, I don't believe that you can be prosecuted for abandoning her. Social workers will straight up lie to get families to accept responsibility for problematic seniors. Find out what the law really is and tell them to stuff their threats.

You need to protect your children, they are the ones that matter. What kind of grandma pulls this garbage with her grandbabies paying the price.

Stop buying her anything without cash in hand from her money. You know that she will throw you under the bus, don't give her any cause. She can kick and scream all she wants, her threatening you with APS is a line that should never be crossed, she is using it to manipulate and that is the line.
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Reply to Isthisrealyreal

Oh my gosh! Another heartbreaking story. I am so sorry you are struggling with this mess and I sincerely hope you will find a viable solution soon. One thing is for sure, she should not return to your home.

It's terribly sad that so many people have such difficult situations regarding care for their parents.
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Reply to NeedHelpWithMom

It is both of ours, we are got the apartment together. We are both on the lease.
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Reply to icecoldfelicia
rovana Feb 19, 2020
Have you talked to the landlord about breaking the lease? If you have minor children at risk there may a possibility of evicting her. Do you need her financial support?  I'd do everything I can to separate from her - leave her to the state. You cannot "fix" her problems. With a narcissist, no one can.
Maybe at this point you should welcome APS taking guardianship of mother. Let them take her away and find a place for her. Start searching for another place to live where you can afford the rent on your own or with a roommate. Your Mom's condition is not going to get any better, in fact will get worse, and you will not be able to take care of her by yourself.
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Reply to mstrbill

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