As my Mom's POA, how can I stop my brother from overspending her money if she willingly gives it to him?

I have NO IDEA!!!!! I am experienceing the EXACT same thing in my situation with some of the details a little different!!!

Please please please! someone out there give us answers on what to do!!!

Why does he have an ATM card to her account? I would go to the bank and shut the card down. It would probably be a good idea to see a lawyer about this also.

I just thought of something.... get an attorney, a financial advisor, your brother, your mom and a social worker all in one room together. (This might be a tad difficult. In from of all the experts... you and your brother plead your cases and have the attorney, the financial advisor and the social worker decide on how much your brother should be able to withdraw each week. If you mom has dementia and can't put in a clear vote.... and she definitely has NO IDEA what the meeting is about........ have a relative and/or good friend sit in on the meeing with her and share what your mom's views have been your brother's whole life about her son. This may bring some clarity to you about your brother and mother that you never knows about them and THEIR relationship and how he feels "entitled" to mom's ATM access....

Please people on this site.......give some feedback even if you feel it is "stupid" or not related to this question. for some reason everything seems to be related in some way......

You have POA, right? You close her current account and open a new one. You set it up so that only you can make withdrawals. If the bank won't do this, talk to and Eldercare attorney or go to your local Legal Aid. Get your mom to a neurologist for a diagnosis.

one more thing..... or maybe several things as they come to me today....;)
Even if THE LAW tells you what you can and can not do ....... dig deep in your heart and soul to see if you have any "funny feelings" about what THE LAW is saying is ok. Think back when you two were siblings and things went on in the family. Try not to stand behind THE LAW with all the decisions you choose to make. Sometimes THE LAW is so unfeeling and insensitive that THE LAW could CARE LESS that two people on the earth (you and your brother) will NEVER speak together again after your mom passes onto a MUCH better place.... or onto H-E....double hockey sticks. whichever the case might be.....;)
Since all this is heading into a crisis and heads up THIS WEEKEND for me.... I know I will have a lot to say on this subject as today goes on. I apologize NOW if I hog this page or whatever you call it when someone types a lot when people have NO INTEREST in what is being typed!!!
kathy from CT

I am so sorry to hear that your brother is doing this to your mother. If your name is on the account with your mom he shouldn't be getting away with this at the bank. If the account is set up with your moms and his name he might have the freedom to do this with no questions ask. What I would do is go to the bank and find out how you can close the account and start up a new one. Your mom would have to sign. Show the bank documentation of POA. Are you also durable power of attorney for her health care. Does your mom get direct deposit or automatic withdraws from this account ? That would all need to be changed when you close the account. Your bother needs to stop manipulating his mom. What a shame! My brothers did the same to my mom. She gave them money freely. The would drive her to the bank so she can give the extra money and didn't have money for herself. She lived in Florida at the time and finally I convinced her to move in my neighborhood. It didn't stop. Finally. It did because I had said to her she can do it only when her needs are met. Have her statement paperless online so you will be the only one to see it. I hope these suggestions are helpful. Be patient and with gods help you can do good for your mom.

Hello there! I have the POA for my dad. He also has memory loss, not dementia but Mild Cognitive Impairment. If I were you, I would follow the other posters advice of closing the account. IMO, it might come back on you on why you allowed this to happen. (I don't like saying that)

Addendum- Also, if you don't mind some advice..like one of the other posters was saying, get him a diagnosis. That really helped in my dad's situation.

Is he taking care of her while living there? Do you know if any of this money is going towards her needs? Yes, his history isn't the best. But before you assume all of it is for him alone, you might want to find out answers to those and some other questions. This way when you see lawyer or bank or whoever, it will show you weren't accusing him but trying to truly understand. If Mom has just a little short term memory loss and is aware most of the time, then she is freely giving this money. Perhaps another way to manage it is stop the ATM card and give Mom cash weekly that she can use as she wishes. After all it is her money. If you can't stop the ATM card then set up another account for you and Mom, move the money into that, and set up weekly transfers to the account the ATM card is associated with. No money in the account when he goes there? Then withdrawal will be denied.

By the time my friend realized that her brother who was supposed to have been "managing her father's money it was nearly all gone! Her sister in law charged her father an extra $500 as payment for doing his grocery shopping, wrote checks to her kids for presents for $100's, and paid for her children's college tuition for college! Her father's house was in deplorable condition, he was dirty, un-shaving, and needed care. Since my friend lived in another state she had no idea that this was going on at this level. She ended up rescuing her father and bringing him to live with her. Only under threats to go to the courts did her brother repay some of the money so that she had means to care for him. Unless you do something soon you may be in the same trouble as my friend was having to care for your mother at your own expense. If you cut off your brother's money he may retaliate by forcing you to care for her or at least arrange for her care. You need to get to a lawyer quickly. Good luck, fighting about money in families is one of the ways families get torn apart. Your mother's best interest should come first!

Yes, you, as POA, should conduct it as a business. If your brother is not happy with it he should not be a caregiver. Schedule monthly meetings with all involved in the process where you discuss all your mom's needs, how much her care cost and how it will be approached. Her atty could be on the phone for that meeting too.
Investigate how much living-in-caregiver would cost in your area. Set up limits for how much your brother can "charge" for caring based on what the current market is. Yes, it is fare for your brother to be paid too if he is there 24/7. And tell him how much you appreciate all his hard work. But explain that you are accountable and have to make sure your mom has enough money through the years to come.
Write it down! Document it: protect yourself.
I saw families falling apart because they could not "remember" what was said before, who is responsible, etc... They point fingers to each other and can't prove anything. Family courts are flooded with families disputing their stories.
Learn from other's mistakes, not your own. And protect your mother's interest. At the end, if your brother is abusing your mother's funds, current situation may cost you much more than to hire caregivers. And, the "worse" part of it, YOU are responsible for that future now as POA!

see your attorney. he may require that an account be opened up that provides you with a monthly bank statement. bro will watch his spending if he knows its all on record. of course a crook knows to deal only in cash so heads up on that likelyhood.

You also can cancel that ATM card. As I understand, your mother does not go to the bank any more. There is no need for her to have one. Your brother will have learn how to manage money instead of dipping into mom's account every time he wants something.

If you have POA that gives YOU the power over the bank account. Go to the bank, show them your POA, and change the accounts, and stop the debit cards.

Can't you just go to the bank, tell them you want that particular ATM card stopped and have another one issued to you and change the access code? Also, I had the card in my hand, went up to the ATM, followed some simple instructions and changed the code right there.

I agree 100% with BIs0901. I have 5 siblings and one of my siblings always lived with mom and dad in their 3 family home. After dad passed away my sibling was caring for mom. But Mom being super giving was allowing him to do as he pleased. Until we found out that Mom had no money in her pocket and he was being very quite and secretive about telling us how things where going when it came to the money part. So I got the rest of the siblings together and decided to call a meeting and said from here on end I will take charge of mom's accounts keeping copies of monthly statements and every credit and debit will have a back up explanation. I will keep a binder with all the details to her spending and all siblings are welcome to review, question and voice any concerns there may be. We set a price for my mom's care per month. so who ever cares for mom that month gets a set price for caring for her. that price included housing, food. some of us do some extras without charge because we choose to do them. like take her to a doctor appt. or pamper mom with a new hair cut and so on. It's been working great, but I do have to tell you at the beginning it was very hard to get this to run smoothly. it helped having at least 3 of the 4 siblings backing me up on the decision to take control of the accounts. It's a lot of work in my part but at the end of the year when my siblings see the account grow due to the rents deposits and things just running smoothly it makes it all worth it. my sibling that was in charge before me did not speak to me for several years but he has come around, now that he understands that what goes for one sibling will go for all. we are all children of the same mother so her money what ever is left one day should be spread equally among us. even though some of us do more for mom then others. we still deserve the same share in the end.

close the account and open another one i have Poa for my mom the acc i have with my name and mom .first how old is your brother and dose he have a job? next question is who home it is? your brother or mom

my self and sister had the same problem with our brother who had my dad living with him our dad had a heart attack and needed 24 hours care so when he came out of the hospital he went to live with my sister . we found out that my dad was not taking his medication's and was not eating because my brother don't cook he work's m-f off on weekend his wife is home all day but don't do anything and my dad had 2 stoke also in his home they never take care of dad but my brother spend his money every month and guess on what horses he had my dad open a credit card rack up 3,000 on it so when my dad move in with my sister she take ny dad bank card my brother was very upset about that and she take the credit card and cut it up now the bal is 300.00 she paid it off so thats why i am saying close the account for your mom and open another one because my brother is all about money

I haven't had the experience but if this were goingon in my family I'd be at the attorney's office that helped me with the other paper work----if you have a legal problem it's best to invest in a good lawyer. Somebody like you brother needs a legal club hanging over his head--nothing you say is going to work---he's obviously being less then honorable now---don't expect change unless you have that big club....

My brother and I share the POA but he and his wife have taken mom from her home as she isn't able to live alone anymore, yet he has her in a yes mode and he is insisting on keeping her house at her expense of course and I am not allowed to see her alone, he and his greedy wife fear I will take her to a lawyer and write them out of the will. I am sure they've already taken me off and put his kids and wife on soley. I haven't spoken to my mom in 2 mts now. it makes me upset to hear her want to go home and then she has a memory phaze where she tells me what she bought for my brother ..of course they drain her and she has no control. I am in Fl, she is now in NY so I've sort of just stepped back as my brother is an aggressive person and his wife a greedy woman. I'm too tired to fight nor do I have the resources to hire a lawyer. I wish I would know how to get someone to check on mom and question my brother about her "donations" to him. If I could take care of her I'd make sure she was in an environment that would keep her busy not in front of a tv all day.

and it sounds like your brother is the same

As your mother's POA, you are the one who is legally responsible for providing a full accounting of your mother's income and expenses should it ever be asked for by someone with the legal standing to see that information, so this is something you need to get control of immediately!! I've been involved in a lawsuit against my brother based on his use of my mother's money when he was her POA. Until the court revoked his POA (my mother is incompetent and could not revoke it herself) he was using her $$ to pay college tuition for his children, pay his own insurance premiums, redecorate his house. I know just how difficult and painful the dynamics are when your sibling is helping himself to what is not his. It might be a good idea to take just a few minutes and read over the POA document to remind yourself of the authority it gives you.
You are her legal representative and can change her bank account (or accounts) by closing the existing ones and starting over again. I would involve the bank management by explaining the situation and asking for their recommendations as well. Since your brother is living with her he has access to her mail. I would rent a PO Box and have everything related to her finances sent to that address. You really have more authority to do whatever is necessary to protect your mother's interest than you realize. I know how unpleasant it can be when the person who feels 'entitled' is a sibling and how much harder it is to resolve the issue. Any action you take may likely make him angry, but since you have a fiduciary responsibility to make decisions based on your mother's best interest, consulting with an attorney would provide you with some legal support. I have also learned over the last four years how incredibly xpensive attorney fees can be so if their is an ElderLaw Clinic nearby or a Law School in your area that has a clinic I would start there. If your brother continues to put your mother at risk financially (and if he is able to do that without hesitation, I would wonder what kind of care she is getting from him) your last resort may be to apply for guardianship if your mother is incompetent. That is a road you can probably avoid if you switch into pro-active gear and just make it impossible for him to access your mother's money. If she is still making loans to him, you may need to have a serious conversation with her explaining to her that you are responsible for her financial well being and you have determined that she can no longer afford to make those loans. If you have enough information to come up with even an approximate total of her funds that have been used by your brother, she needs to see that if she is still in a place medically that she can understand what you are telling her.
Good luck......you can do this!!!!

Since one of my sisters moved far away when it came down to helping my mother my younger sister and myself are left to take care of her. Mom had in place advanced directives that covered who would be her POA and when I would take over. I made a verbal agreement with my sister that I would maintain her checkbook and she would hold the credit card. Since mom is in a private home ALF I pay that bill and her medication bills. My sister buys and any thing that mom needs for her daily care. I can see the credit card statement anytime on line that I need to and she can see the bank account information online. I run all decisions past my sister so that we agree what to do for mom. I am doing all of this so that everything is transparent for the family and nothing is hidden. Having an Advanced directive is by far the best way to go when there are many siblings to consider. Some may only be focused what their inheritance will be. We are focused on using every dime of my mother's money on her!

I had a similar situation when I was brought in to serve as POA for an aunt I wasn't especially close to. This aunt had been "cared for" by neighbors who were helping themselves to her possessions and money. I couldn't fault these people entirely as they were the ones who kept an eye on her, drove her to the store, to Dr. appointments, etc. I didn't want to disrupt the good relationship they had with her, but I didn't want them to continue to over-compensate themselves either. I set up a meeting with an elder care lawyer and several [distant] family members for the purpose of long term planning. During the meeting it was explained to all (by the lawyer) that my aunt would not qualify for Medicaid down the road if she gave away too many assets, and that from this point on it would be my duty (as POA) to keep meticulous track of things. Should she fail to qualify for Medicaid because she'd been unwise during that lookback period, her care would fall to the family or to neighbors until she could qualify. Once the situation was spelled out that way, and we determined a protocol for tracking expenses, the neighbors backed off. Knowing that their activities need, by law, to be transparent was enough motivation for them to knock off the overspending.

Take away the ATM card, and cut weekly expense checks to your brother for the care of your mother. If necessary, have him show you receipts, he can keep a ziplock baggie in the car to make it easy.

Your Mom is living with your brother? Her house or his? Is he providing caregiving services? Taking her to appointments? Making meals? Laundry? Helping her dress?

What is your brother's role in your mother's life? If he is providing services that you would otherwise have to pay for, don't you think he should be entitled to payment? But the way to handle that is to draw up a personal care agreement spelling out what he does and what he is paid. He shouldn't be helping himself to amounts he determines, but he should be compensated fairly.

@Jeannegibbs, when my mom gave us the POA it was agreed upon that she would live 6mts with me and 6 with my brother. well he's got her so brainwashed against me. when I suggested that she has more than enough money to help us both get through he was so dead set against it and yelled at me till his veins nearly burst. but now that he is doing exactly what I proposed it seems to be ok..but I am left out of everything, her life , her health issues, I no longer ask and honestly nor really care anymore, they've caused me so much heart ache.. but his last words to me were, that the $ is there for his wife. I was like WHAT? our father didn't work his ass and die for my brothers wife, he left it for my mother. who at this stage doesn't know what day of the week it is or anything else, other than to say yes to his every comment. Yet when she talks to me , she complains up a storm to get her out of there, she wants to go home to her own house and my hands are tied. my brother can get violent and I just am too old to deal with his nonsense..he thinks right now he's the man with moms money. he's always been a loser...

i don't agree Jeanne why must children take compensation to take care of they parents thats crap because our parents take care of us most importantly give us LIFE so no you need to change the bank account you are poa

they are some kids would do anything for money i know because i have brother's like that

and thats why i ask what is it your brother do for your mom and who home is it? mom or your brother ? if its your mom home and he is living they free then you own him noting thats his mom too he should take care of her