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When declare that it is a scam, she replies, "but they need our help". We argue constantly about junk mail, as well as telemarketing calls. At the moment she is buying much merchandise from "Publishers Clearing House" for items that are cheap Chinese junk, and that are already in the house. Her false hope is that we are going to win a million dollars. I have insisted that we go to counseling, threatened divorce, become exceedingly angry; nothing works! How do I get through to this woman?

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Those telemarketing calls are tough, as the caller just doesn't want to take "no" for an answer.... most of us were brought up to be polite, and that is why it is so difficult to just hand up on those calls. I don't know how many times I had to say "what part of no don't you understand" back to these callers, then hang up.

Dan, did your wife work outside of the house and have her own credit cards and her own checking account? Or was everything that was bought you paid the bills?

If couples aren't cross trained regarding finances, the one who would just shop until they dropped think money grows on the trees, the bank account will always be readily available. If your wife doesn't have her own checking account to pay for these things, might be time to set one up. That way when her credit card becomes due, well she needs to write the check from her account. Oops, not enough money in her account? Well, lesson learned the hard way. You take away the credit card.
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I'm sorry to say I just don't know. My mother went through something similar. Mom never went for the sweepstakes things, never bought magazines or crap to enter or qualify - moms problem was the charity requests. I fought this battle with her for well over two years! "Save the tigers, donkeys, ferrel cats, farm animals, bears." Feed children, war widows - US and foreign. Dogs for the blind, deaf, veterans. Forests, national parks, oceans. Prisoner bible study. PETA, human society - local, national, international. I could go on and on. Mom would get upwards of 20 - 30 requests a day in the mail. By the time I figured out what she was doing with her personal checking account she was writting 40 checks a month. I tried everything to get her to stop or even get it under control. I would look up charities on Charity Navagator to show her many were bogus, limited how many checks she had access to, even agreed to a budget and made it something we did together once a week. Mom would order more checks without me knowing and write dozens of checks on the sly. Absolutly nothing I did or said worked. To make things worse the charities would personalize the letter request with her first name and she was convinced they were writting to her personally. The really odd part of this was that my mother has been a very miserly woman all her life - she could make a dime scream! What finally put an end to it was a fall she had in August that brought her dementia to full gear and I had to place her in a nursing home. I was finally able to get the checkbook and mom is unable to mentally process getting more checks - and to be honest I don't think she really remembers the whole thing. Plus, now all moms mail is forwarded to me. On the down side I think our mailman hates us now as those 30 request come to my house daily. We haven't sent a check in seven months but there has barely been a difference in the number of requests that come daily. (Sigh!). So I'm no help other than to let you know you are not alone and I understand.
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Short and sweet: INTERCEPT THE MAIL..........are you the one that walks out to the mailbox? Make it dwindle... pick and choose the ones where NOTHING can be ordered, bought, etc. This is a quote from above message: "Mom would order more checks without me knowing and write dozens of checks on the sly".

Use a fake checkbook

Oh, I am glad I am re-reading the post. Mom's mail is forwarded to you! Awesome. You have already intercepted it. Cool!

If mom has no POSTAGE STAMPS, she cannot mail out anything. Politely say, Okay mom, I'll mail this for you, which will be the fake checkbook...

How's that? I think it would work for my mom. Not sure what other folks think. My point is I don't want to fight with her. So, whatever it takes to keep the peace and make them think they are buying whatever, so be it.

If the item never arrives *hehe*, you can say, "See mom? They are a bunch of scammers, they took your money".

I know, it is one more thing to deal with. Not earth shattering, but bothersome nevertheless.

M88
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You don't say how old your wife is. How long has she been this way?

I have discovered that sometimes mental decline manifests itself in different ways. Sometimes it causes people to be obsessed with something. Sometimes it makes people neglect things, it makes people repeat themselves or forget things. Still, other times, people just exhibit poor judgment.

I would consider everything that you have observed about your wife and whether you think she just is not able to process the truth about the junk mail. She may not be able to understand what you are asking her to do. There are various reasons this may be happening. I'd consider that possibility and try to protect her and you.

I think that I might figure a way to get a post office box and stop all incoming mail. You can get most statements sent by email. I'd explore keeping the mail out of her sight.
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I've done what RainMom has done - researched and found out how exorbitant the salaries for charity CEOs are. That stops the consideration for donation right then and there.

But I do know the problem. It was an issue we discussed in the caregiving course I took through the Alzheimer's Assn. Many of the issues raised in the literature handouts addressed common older behavior patterns, one of which was susceptibility to "charitable" solicitations, and sometimes political solicitations (which are much worse!).

One of the possible vulnerabilities we came up with is that the people who are susceptible often are people who have a history and tradition of helping others, whether it's family plus neighbors, church members, doing volunteer work, etc. Now that they're aging, the physical help is not longer possible.

Yet the need to help remains. Enter the Beltway Bandits with their sob story pleas.

I've called some of them and threatened to get injunctions; I've called others and told them I know how much their CEO makes and that's multiple times what my father gets on SS, so let their CEO's contribute. Some listen. Some don't.

And they sell lists, so one charity donation ends up producing several other charity solicitations.

What I've done is find ways to help people other than doing physical work, by supporting good organizations such as Scouts, military and animal organizations which I've vetted, as well as neighbors and friends who help. When someone does something for Dad, I suggest thinking of ways he can help them, and generally most everyone can use a little bit of help one way or other, whether it's a nice little dress for the little neighbor girl, help with a neighbor who's ill or having financial difficulty, a MOW donation, etc.

Other options are monetary or food contributions to food pantries, using cards sent by charities to donate to nursing homes, long term care hospitals, VA hospitals and VA homes. I would think there are a lot of military people at Bethesda who could would enjoy knowing that someone they never met is concerned about their war injuries.


That kind of charity is "up close and personal" and I think brings more rewards than sending a check to a conglomerate type charity.
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Just thought of something else....some of these so-called charities have been engaging in fraud. There was a program hosted by one of the well known investigative reporters (I can picture him but can't remember his name) exposing some of these charities.

I research one that seems suspicious, especially new military, animal and Native American charities. For the last, I found that one of the aggressive charities had been engaged in fraud, was sued, and the list goes on. After pointing that out, that outfit's literature was put in the recycle bin.
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If need be I would get a p.o. box and pick up my mail myself at the post office.. Tell her you heard someones been stealing peoples mail..

I have a phone that announces who's calling or says where the call is coming from.. I never pick it up unless I know exactly who it is... All you have to do is add the name to the number you want to pick up..

You could shut of the ringer and check it during the day for messages and call back who you need to..
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Trust me - I tried everything suggested and more. I would show her reports on how much of every dollar actually reached the animal or child. .08 cents? Didn't matter. Mom was in independent living at the time with a care giver so there was no way to withhold stamps or offer to mail - unless I was the 24/7. No fake accounts either - if she managed to write one on a bogus account and get it mailed it could be considered a crime - writting checks on a closed account - explored that idea in the first six months. I thought of it or tried it - whatever "it" is! Like I said this was a fight that went on for over two years. Because the letter was addressed "dear Nancy" mom truely believed she was the only one helping. If I had a dime for everytime I heard "if I won't help them, who will"?!! Then she'd get the photo of the horse, cat whatever with the handwritten "thank you" on the back, she'd believe that was THE specific animal she saved. I tried to get her to condense to just a couple charities - but no, they ALL needed her! When I suggested donating locally it was the same answer. And as for this being a life long habit? Mom never did a days volunteer work in her life. And up until this started she'd wrestle a hobo for a penny on the sidewalk. BUT it's finished now - thank God - except for our mail carriers glares. But it truely was the most frustrating thing I've ever dealt with in my life.
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p.s. Sorry for the rant and the unintentional hijacking! Not much gets me worked up like this topic does. I'd have a drink and mellow out but I don't drink - bummer!
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Maybe she would be open to it if you said that you could make a donation to a local charity, GrandpaDan. There are people and animals in need, but many of these nationwide charities are simply cash cows for the fundraisers. All of the charities asking for $19 a month sponsorships are cash cows. Wounded Warrior Project got caught just recently, with little of the money going to the vets and most going to support a lavish life for the founders and fundraisers. Shame on them.

People often like to give to the national Humane Society. Most of that money goes to the fundraisers and fundraising projects. A few cents of each dollar goes to the local shelters. However, a donation to your local humane society goes to the animals.

Talk to your wife about donating locally. That will give you some control over the amount spent, since maybe she'll let you be in charge of what you decide.
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My dad opens every piece of junk mail and writes a check
for each one, as if he were paying bills. He gives me stacks every
week to mail...
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Yogagirl - just curious, do you mail them?
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Rainmom, Great question! I save them for a while then toss em.
He once was waiting for the "free gift" that came with his donation
and he called the organization so I got caught. That's when I decided to save them for a while.
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OK, I have a few tricks up my sleeve:

* If you haven't already done so, have you ever thought of just removing her name from the joint bank account (if any)? You can actually open a separate account just for her, and if she gets her own money, have her put her money into her account. That way, your money will be safe in your account, especially if you're the one paying the regular mandatory bills. Practicing this little trick well assure you won't go broke because of her. If she has a habit of overspending, this can actually threaten your own livelihood and even your ability to keep a roof over your head as well as get food and other necessities.

* Next time she lays the checkbook somewhere, take it away and destroy it. You can actually run a bank account without a checkbook, I've done so for several years and I really like it. There are many places that no longer accept checks, so this works out very well since checks have actually become obsolete. Instead of checks, you can set up automatic online bill pay and have your bills paid automatically out of your account. Whatever day your check direct deposits to your account is the same day you want your bills going out. That way, you know your bills are paid without you doing anything, but always set this up from your end and never let anyone have access to your bank account. This is done by just not giving any bank information to anyone.

* Maybe what you may want to do is go for guardianship, this would give you control over all aspects of your spouse's life, including finances. Just make sure you give the spouse at very least a very small allowance each month so she realizes the concept of money. You can set up a separate bank account for her that comes with a debit card, and whatever is on that card is all she can spend if you set it up correctly by asking the banker to not let the account overdraft. This would be the task of a personal banker or maybe even the manager but not the teller. You want to try to avoid using these other cards that are not tied to your bank because they charge fees where is your bank does not unless you visit an ATM not tied to your bank. These are ATM fees you really want to avoid by only using your banks ATM if you want cash, but if you have an ATM card you can run it as credit, why carry cash? If you don't carry cash, there's no cash to handover in case a robber ever approaches you. I don't really carry cash much anymore myself, and it's really a good thing.

* As for the mail scams coming to your home, if you have a trusted family member, ask that family member if it's OK to have the mail forwarded to their house. Explain the situation, and if they say yes, definitely have the junk mail forwarded to that address instead of your own.

* If possible, try to avoid expensive PO boxes. Yes, they've become very expensive over the years, and if you're on fixed income, this is an expense you definitely can't afford if you don't get much money. You really need to save as much money as absolutely possible, and following all of these tips will definitely help you a lot because you'll see a huge difference by the end of the month (if you manage the money correctly).

* Another thing you can do is pay attention to what time the mail carrier delivers your mail and be out there at the mailbox to collect the mail yourself just passed suggested here. You can then have control over all the mail, and if you have a paper shredder, you can shred all of the junk mail that fits through the shredder. Some of the better ones are also card shredders that permit you to shred unwanted credit cards if you decide you no longer want to use them. Regular credit cards come with exorbitant prices to use them because you're paying an off a lot of interest that you don't need to be paying if you're on fixed income and don't have much money. Americans are actually starting to be more careful with their money, and I think people are starting to wise up and realize what kind of hole they're digging for themselves.

* As for charity giving, i'll tell you what one person I currently know does about once a year. She actually catches things on sale, including pet food. About once a year she takes the pet food down to a local shelter and drops it off. That way, she knows her money is being used for a reputable cause because she has control over where that money goes. I strongly agree there are many charities to whom we should not be giving our money, and I strongly agree that so many of them are definitely scams.

* To be honest with you, you actually need your money worse than those charities do. You need that money, they don't. In other words, they don't need that money near as bad as you do. I'm sure they get plenty of money from some other source that helps keep them open and operating. This is why they don't really need your money.

* One thing I used to get in the mail many years ago is from publishers clearing house.
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Part two:

From what you described, this is exactly what it sounds like you may be getting, that or something very similar. They would promise that you would be entered into a drawing and have a chance to win money just by purchasing from their magazines. They may even send you a letter stating that only paying customers have any standing with them. This is just a trick to get you to give them money for stuff you don't need. I used to get these all the time and I never fell for any of them. Another time an offer was sent to me for a free sample of a magazine. I only ordered the free sample, not a subscription. The magazines started coming once a month. I would look at them until I started getting billed for something I didn't order beyond the sample. When the letters started coming, I pulled a little trick of my own. What I did was remove the little card insert in one of the magazines. I then taped it to the front of one of the magazines. My next step was to stack all of the magazines and tape them together, making sure the one with the card was on top of the stack. I was sure to also return the sample along with the bills and the letters and I even stated on one of them that I "did not order". I think if I recall right, I had the sample on the bottom of the stack with a note stating that I only ordered the sample. I then dropped it in the mailbox and the best thing about the postage is that it read "no postage necessary if mailed in the US". I never heard from them again, and if you get magazines, you can do the same thing I did.

As for telemarketers, Google the words opt out. Register your phone number and reply to the email to confirm your request. If the telemarketers continue calling, you can go on the Federal Trade Commission website and file a complaint.
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GrandpaDan....I so feel your pain....some good suggestions here....seriously hope they help you....

Rainmom....Your story is my story, almost exactly, right down to the 2 year struggle....Add to that, my Mom left the Catholic church at 87 YO because she was, quite rightfully, disgusted w/the abusing priest scandals (that tells you how strong-willed and independent she has always been....I mean, really, who age 87 leaves the church she's known her whole life???....My strong, ethical Mom, that's who....and, yes, she lost friends over this decision, BUT, she was her usual, determined self)....she joined the local Episcopal Church....loved it....I would go w/her whenever I was visiting (I'm1800 miles away).....then my brother tells me that when he was visiting, he took Mom to a church outing where they were giving a home to one of their members, apparently he had disabilities.....how nice another church member had willed this residence to the church....but my brother said it was weird....the guy was young....yesss...he had physical disabilities but seemed together mentally....yet he had no job....he was going to move into a large house w/large yard....who was going to pay for maintenance....taxes....how did this work????

2 weeks later and the pastor requests a meeting w/Mom....now I'd taken Mom to a wonderful geriatrician and she'd been dx'd w/MCI at this point....but she was (Thank God...no pun intended) still mostly in her right mind.....just losing/misplacing things which caused her anxiety....the pastor wants to know....will she consider donating her beachfront condo to the church in her will....NO....he didn't want a generous donation....he wanted her d*mn condo, even tho he knew....he'd met us!! !.....that she had 3 kids!!!!

Mom said NO...Absolutely Not!....she then called us in tears that night....I don't believe I've ever felt worse...poor Mom!...She was beyond upset and rightly so....but she was very articulate about the conversation w/the pastor...My brother, of course, was outraged, confronted the pastor, who denied the whole thing....but I believe my bro and my Mom.....esp. after bro's story....WOW....

And just a disclaimer FWIW....it's not about inheritance....my sibs and I are fine and will be fine even if Mom has to sell the condo for her LT Care....that's the point: it's hers....period....

GA....the d*mn political fund raising calls start at 7AM....these people are calling a 90+ YO woman....

What has happened to our society when these things happen daily??? Sorry...rhetorical Q....still....
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Oh yes, I definitely forgot to mention something:

* If you're getting other junk mail, you can actually mark "return to sender" on it. You can do this even with creditors who are hounding you for more money than you can afford. You can even write a nasty note on the envelope saying, "Hey creditor! Stop hounding for money!" You can actually return the bills to unsecured accounts that are considered low priority (by law). Only do this if creditors keep hounding you and you don't have enough money after bills and groceries along with other immediate household needs. Putting a nasty note on a piece of junk mail is actually an open embarrassment to the sender because every carrier who happens to see it will know there's a problem, which is why you want to use this trick to raise awareness to the problem. Everyone who sees it will most likely warn others, which is what you want because people do socialize and the word does get around sometime.

* You also need to become very familiar with the fair debt collection practices act, this is very informative. If predators are hounding you over the phone, you can verbally ask them to please not call anymore, then hang up. The same trick goes for those telemarketers.
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Ummmm....actually the P.O. hasn't done the "return to sender" or anything else for years....esp. w/junk mail.....I did look into this....5 years ago....for my Mom's problem ....you are, sadly, on your own....
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I hate to tell you this, but yes they still do a return to sender! I do them every so often, especially if I happen to get someone else's mail by mistake.
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Possibly for "normal" mail.....mis-delivered....but not for "junk " mail....
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Actually no, Rarefind. I just had this conversation with my mail carrier last week. He was bringing a package to the door and I thought it was a good opportunity to apologize for the masses of charity mail. We talked for a bit - most charity requests are second class mail. It you write "return to sender" and resubmitt it, the post office merely throws it away.
Blackdog - lol, our story is even more similar. My mom had searched for her perfect church for years and believed she'd found it. Small group, always poor, always having fund raisers. My mother was probably one of the most well off in the congregation. They were forever getting mom to give them large sums of money - this was before she had any signs of dementia so I just had to bite my tounge. Fast forward a few years - mom had a hip replaced and they helped her out a bit and mom kept on giving. Fast forward a few more years and mom was getting more eccentric than usual plus had lost her drivers licence. So mom asked for someone to pick her up and take her to church. No dice. No more invites to church book club, no more visits etc. yet the phone calls and letters asking her for money just kept coming. Once a year when they would hit her up for several thousand two people would show up for the full court press. Finally mom said - " you'll have to talk to my daughter, she takes care of my money now". Never heard from them again. The really funny part was that unbeknownst to them mom had put them in her will for six digits. Once they stopped coming around mom changed her will and cut them out. If they only knew! Lol!!!
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Jessie Belle!

You're a genius!

The local
Animal shelter, aka dog/cat pound would absolutely benefit!

Mom could even accompany you there to drop off the donation. She can see where her $ is going.

I'm sure there's a women's shelter, etc. locally so funds will not be abused.

M88
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Oooops, your wife sir, not mom. Sorry! M88
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GrandPa Dan, look up gambling addiction and see if there are some similarities in what you observe in your wife with the problems addicts experience.
The risk of developing a gambling addiction doubles for people who live within 10 miles of a casino and your poor wife's demon is as close as the mail box. Try to protect your finances as others have recommended but look to see if you can get some insight on why people gamble and recognize that she might have a problem that will take some work to overcome.
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Rainmom, is it possible that maybe the mail carriers in your state operate differently than the ones in Ohio? I can't tell you how many times I would get mail returned to me because the address to which it was sent was no longer valid or the person was no longer there. I can tell you that one time the magazine situation was definitely effective because I know the magazine company definitely got the magazines back, and I've returned many bills and letters from creditors who were harassing me for more money than I could actually afford to pay on a bill that was only mounding. When they started harassing me despite my best effort to explain my financial situation and that I'm doing the best I can, that's when they kept harassing me and I had to start returning all correspondence and asking them to please not contact me anymore. I know they got those letters back, because the correspondence stopped at my request. I can only pay those bills as I could afford in the amounts I could afford. Some of those amounts were actually too much and I had to pay what I could in the amount that was more manageable. I don't think it's right that companies take advantage of people with limited income and heap unfair fees and interest, making bills unmanageable to the point that the person can't just can't pay them. These are the letters I always returned and included a note as an open embarrassment to all the mail carriers who would see that letter. All you can do is the best you can, but it's very possible your mail carriers may operate differently than ours, because ours will never throw out mail meant for return. This is why I strongly suspect that your mail carriers operate by a different policy in your area from what you described.
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All I know is what my mail carrier told me. In addition, about a year ago I had a similar conversation with the mail carrier for my moms retirement community and he said the same thing - for the most part - we were discussing ways to try to get the requests to stop and he said rejecting the mail wouldn't work as it doesn't make its way back to the send. A politically correct way of saying the post office destroys it? Same state different city.
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RareFind, you're referring to situations blending junk mail and debt collection mail; the OP and most of the posts referred to the former.

The debt collection letters you've received might have been sent by first class mail. Junk mail generally is not first class mail. If you were to do a change of address, the junk mail would not be forwarded; that's been my experience.

I raised the issue with my father's mail carrier, an outstanding, excellent, compassionate and thoughtful woman who often brings Dad's mail directly up to his door instead of putting it in the mailbox at the edge of the road.

She said the same thing; they just throw away mail marked "refused, return to sender." One of the local post offices in my area even has a large wastebasket right by the post office mail boxes marked "junk mail" so people can just dump the junk mail in when they pick up their mail. And they do.

Sometimes the political solicitations are sent by bulk mail as well. It's been decades since I've worked with bulk mail, but there are requirements for volume - i.e., a dozen or so letters couldn't be sent by bulk mail. As I recall, a permit is required, but that only includes mail to recipients; I don't believe it includes postage for returned mail.

So the post office really has no incentive or justification to return junk mail - it does get paid for it, and it has enough financial issues to deal with w/o returning junk mail.

What can be done though is to use the SASE envelopes included by some junk mailers, fill them full of junk mail to the point of being stuffed like a turkey, and mail it. That's what I do. Then that junk mailer gets an envelope full of someone else's solicitations.


Once when I was getting fed up with political solicitations, I put a computer printed address label to the opposite political party over my own address and dumped it back in the mail. It was returned to me with the notation that I needed to provide postage to "forward" it to the other political party. So from then on I cut my name out, replaced it with a blank card and put the computer printed label over it before I dumped it back in the mail box.


As to the debt issues, I hope you're familiar with the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act and are citing it with the apparent harassment mail you've been getting. But returning debt collection notices is playing with fire. When you get an initial notice, you must respond w/i 30 days to challenge the debt or it's assumed the debt is valid.

If you send back that first notice w/o challenging it, the statutes allows the presumption that the debt is valid, and you can expect the debt collector will really start hounding you.
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Correction: The 6th paragraph should have read:

"Correction: 6th paragraph, should read:

" it does NOT get paid for it, and it has enough financial issues to deal with w/o returning junk mail."
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Love the idea of sending these pain in the a$$ charity request back to one of the charities. Don't get me wrong about charitable giving - hubby and I have a selected three we support locally but sheez, dozens a day in the mail! Some of these send small amount stamps as incentive to respond - think I'm going to start saving them up then spring for a large envelope and mail back a load. I think it will provide me with a little smug satisfaction and a giggle. On a side note - I have a huge container I put my loose coin in and am planning to fill it to the top, cash it out and then give the money to one of our local charities - probably the near by animal shelter. Anyhoo - many of the charity request that come in the mail also include coins as an incentive to give. I don't feel right keeping it nor throwing it out so into the container it goes. The container is 11" high and 21" around - now 1/2 full and I can barely lift it. I'm so anxious to get it filled and see how much it is!
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GrandpaDan, here's another suggestion, but it takes some effort and research.

Michigan's anti-stalking statute is fairly broad, and includes unwanted contact as grounds for requesting injunctive relief. I haven't nor do I have the software to do research to determine how unwanted contact is defined, narrowed or expanded, but I define it to include contact by phone or mail (as well as personal contact), whether from an unwanted male or female, or a company trying to get a solicitation.

So I've used it to threaten repeated junk mail offenders, advising them very sweetly that Michigan allows an individual to request a PPO (personal protection order) against someone based on the provisions of the anti-stalking statute.

I further advise them that 2 contacts, as defined in the statute, is all that is required to request a PPO. Granted that I doubt I could get a judge to issue a PPO against Publisher's Clearing House or the charities, but it has worked with a few of the solicitors, especially the political ones who are so aggressive and offensive.

If they haven't hung up on me by that time, I also use terminology we used when I worked in transactional law during real estate downturns - I comment that I can and will use "any and all recourse available to me." That could, e.g. include a wide variety of actions, not necessarily legal ones specifically, including posting on social media, on change.org, reporting to the BBB, reporting to the Attorney General, asking the IRS to investigate if the charity is in fact a 501(c)(3) as stated and is in compliance.

I do recall it did work with a few of the aggressive one.
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