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Well, if "Jae and Jamie" are indeed adults, they should be able to navigate this issue themselves. She sounds toxic, to say the least. I've seen people do absolutely crazy things in the name of "family" where all they are doing is supporting toxic, sick behavior.
A call to APS reporting an abusive Aging parent will result in something. Call the cops. Call Nami (although, they are not super hands on)...and Joe and Jamie need to get a clue and move out. Just b/c Joe's name is on a lease, as long as the rent is paid, he's not required to LIVE with this person!

Are J&J working? Able to fend for themselves? Then they should. I'm about self preservation by this point, to stay with this loony woman is just self torture.

When her lease runs out, she'll either leave or stay and be a squatter. That's another whole deal. I'd walk away, run away, and let the state take over.

And no, people with BPD do not belong in group homes. They need to be properly medicated, sober and sometimes in a lockdown facility.

Sounds mean, but it's pretty true. Sometimes the "best we can do" is to walk away, and not look back.
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This family could also report to their state's vulnerable adult services division that the
Mom is suffering from self neglect. They will visit
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RockChick, the EEG should help determine if there is a physical cause for all this - I do know personally where this was in fact the case. Treatment was like a miracle. But there is a good chance that this is mental illness and Joe and Jamie are wonderful people to hang in there and care about her. But this is a case for professionals - they should be willing to tell the doctor, or other health care person what is going on - HIPPA does not prevent anyone from talking to the doctor, just means doctor cannot share info. And the suggestions to call 911, report ALL threats to police, is very important - instead of "protecting" her from the system, they need to get her into the system so that she can receive treatment involuntarily. This is a huge problem for families who care.
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RockChick what a nightmare your friends are going through.

Many of the BPD type care-receivers people on the forum are dealing with are now very elderly and physically limited. Oh! - they can still cause enormous amounts of pain, don't you worry. But the kind of howling blizzard of disasters that your friends' mother is creating gets harder for them to pull off.

Florid BPD looks so much like straight, old-fashioned lunacy - not unnaturally, I suppose, the clue's in the name - that it's overwhelming to deal with for anyone who cares about the person with it. I was talking to a woman not long ago whose granddaughter is in and out of residential care. The last admission came after she had responded to a refused request by pouring a kettle full of boiling water slowly over her own forearm.

Boundaries, boundaries. BPDs in general need to be supported by people who are compassionate and understanding but who do not love them.
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Ill look into NAMI thank you for suggestion.
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Midkid58: Yes they are. Sorry if it came across in a way that made one think they were little kids. I am not always good at wording things. I think they do because she is Joe's mother and they are all she has and don't want to be just like her family was to and is to her. I like them want her to be to have a good healthy life and way she is now thats not happenning.

When the cops came out one time i was there and she told cops she wants to go to jail she doesnt mind it they told her she really wouldnt want to be there and tried to get her to go to hospital. But I'll pass on ones suggestion and perhaps if they tell cops they would like her evaulated they will make it happen. Idk. Its all true... typing words on a screen is different than witness for self to see what mean.

From what ive read and witnessed it does seem very hard even near impossible at least when the person who has bpd falls in malignant more severe degree end. Its hard for all involved to watch her self destruct and for those that care about joe n jamie etc to see her unleash what she does on joe n jamie.  Perhaps my friends will have to get a restraining order. Its sad it would have to come to this.

They are trying to by being at apartment only when have to and trying to improve life stuff but not having too much luck. This is all they think they can do til lease is up for joe n his mom at least i guess idk. Im tired so i can't explain more right now.

Thank you and thank you to others here who have been kind and shown concern
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Can you contact NAMI (National Association for Mental Illness) for advice?
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911 next time she acts out. Involuntary psychiatric evaluation.

Why anyone would put someone with this level of mental illness on a lease is beyond belief.

Frankly, most folks with BPD who are non compliant with meds and therapy end up abandoned by their families, because they wreak havoc in other people's lives.
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Sendneedshelp: 1. I am a friend of the family/them. We are like family. 2. It has nothing to do with gaining financially if she is put in a group home etc. They want to make sure she can get help she needs and hasnt got nor been provided (nothing has ever worked). So she stops being a harm to herself, to them and others and can live a happier healthier life and stay in each others lives. They dont want to abandon her like her family did. 3. Its not her home she is only on lease because its the rules if she is to stay there. And since she is on the lease she cant remove herself nor can they til its up nor try find her a place or group home 4. They are not apart of the substance issues nor do they partake in such things (they don't drink she does, she drinks excessive amounts of alcohol they don't drink and they are not alcoholics like her, they don't smoke a lot like her (they don't smoke) nor do illegal drugs like she did in past nor abuse legal ones here n there like she has n does). They have mentioned to her psychologist when she was seeing 1 about her taking more than prescribed. Interact tried to help her 1st time round but they couldnt and they graduated. 1st time round was court appointed to be apart interact. 2nd time doctor suggested it because my friends mother would not listen to her (what she prescribed, advice on issues etc) and after all the time of this she said this is it. Things are worse and my friends mom refuses to be apart of dbt cuz she says its boring. Sorry i couldnt reply sooner and they cant take your suggestions yet cuz i havent been to see them to pass it on.
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Done here. No advice has been taken.
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What you have described appears to be a gravely disabled person under the care of her doctor, who has been evaluated by authorities, and released.
Of primary importance is she has rights.

As an advocate for the mentaly ill, there would be questions that need to be answered:

1) What is your relationship to the family? And why are you involved?
2) Does her son, Jamie, and his girlfriend have a financial interest in having her removed or committed?
3) Why are two adults so stuck, when they could remove themselves from her home?
Are they involved in the substance abuse issues?  Substance abuse is a crime.  Report it.
Or, as Iam reading this.....she is already in a program, called the interact program?
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"Joe" and "Jamie" must be adults, right? Why are they even in this person's life? I thought you were advocating for some young children, then saw that they are in a relationship--WHY do they stay within arm's reach of this woman??

The next time she "rages" call 911. Ask for police and EMT's. Make them take her to the hospital or to jail. There she will be evaluated and treated, one would hope.

Someone like this is a danger to the community. I'm sure that id half of what you're stating is true, it will come out when "Joe and Jamie" are talked to.

Sadly, BPD is very hard to treat as most patients are treated against their will. I had a brother with BPD and schizophrenia (untreated). He was a walking, living nightmare. I had a restraining order against him. He died 4 years ago--I still feel fear if I see someone who looks or acts like him.

"Joe and Jamie" need to get away from this abusive, sick person, whatever it takes. I do not understand why they stay in the line of fire.....I'm NOT blaming them for her actions, but if they are hanging around and just taking it, I have little sympathy for that.
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They have tried speaking to her psychologist, doctor and ppl who run interact program. They have run into problems because of privacy laws, lack of money, interact ignoring them, etc. She is getting a electroencephalogram (EEG) (i belive its called) done this month but this is only because she had them done every so often as a kid and her parents never would tell her why even before they cut ties with her decades ago. So she asked her primary about it and the doctor ordered it. Although it sounds like the doctor never told her at her appointment awhile back why EEGs get done. Her sons gf tried to tell her but she wont listen.
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The woman is needing a public guardian/conservatorship.
Jamie can visit once she is stabilized, medicated, and in an institution
if ever at all.
The only person I knew that had behaviors this bad had brain tumors.
To allow that to continue is neglect of a vulnerable adult, imo.
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What if someone is very child like what i mean is like moderately or greater mentally delayed, mentally regresses to child (way bpds can), very implusive, gets in cars with strangers, lets strangers into house, harm to herself, harm to others, substance issues getting worse, etc?
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He suffers from moderate depression or more, confidence issues to a point, stress, fatigue, etc because of growing up with a severely bpd etc mother who was n is mentally emotionally verbally etc abusive. He is trying to seek counseling but has to make sure his insurance will cover it. He indeed has had a tough hard life for sure. Should he talk to an elder care attorney or what kind as his mom is 54 in July? I hope if he tries to talk to his moms primary doctor that privacy hippa etc laws dont get in the way. I am a lil scared she is gonna do something someday soon as she has only gotten worse with time and her alcoholism has gotten worse the last 3 esp 2 yrs it was realllllllly bad 9 or more yrs ago. She has been projecting and blaming joe for everything and has run off to live at the shelter til saturday. She actually used the words she is running away like a child or teen would use. She is taking a bed food n shelter away from someone who is actually homeless. She is also denying drinking other night despite house wreaking of alcohol n a straw too wreaking of alcohol she only uses one when she is drunk, calls cops n er vehicle when drunk n she only calls her other son when she is drunk as she calls him awful names when she is sober n cant stand joes brother when sober 99 percent time. If anyone is praying type plz pray for Joe thanks.
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Nine years is a long time. I can only imagine that Joe needs mental help himself.
Look on the county and state website for guardianship information. . Seek consultations with attorneys. Speak with her doctors. Hopefully you will be able to gather resources to have her placed in a safe home where she can receive therapy.
Hopefully you or Joe will discover someone who can assist. It must have been a tough life. Do take action before someone gets hurt even more.
You are a good friend.
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Cr0105: bpd is short for borderline personality disorder and bp is bipolar.
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Is "BPD" bipolar disorder?
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I would not wait until she actually becomes physically violent to call 911. I would call when I felt threatened and tell the person she has been physically violent in the past which you are afraid they are about to do again. I've had to do this.
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Rockchick - Guardianship is normally sought through the local (county) probate court or family court. She would need a doctor to opine that the person is incapable of handling her own affairs or seeing to her own care - it sounds like the lady's doctor should be willing to do this based on what you said. The exact procedure and requirements should be obtained from the court that has jurisdiction. Either call the clerk of the court and ask how to do it or hire a lawyer who has the expertise in this area. Google is your friend. You can look up something like "how to file a guardianship petition in xyz state/county" or similar to figure out where to start.

Good luck to Joe and Jamie. I don't disagree with the idea of just cutting off contact and protecting themselves, but if they want to stay involved and get help for her a guardianship petition is one avenue to pursue.

Another thing they could do is call 911 the next time she becomes violent or self-destructive and have her admitted for psychiatric evaluation. I've actually done that twice in my life, with people that were suicidal, and they did receive psychiatric help. That would be a lot cheaper and more immediate than petitioning for guardianship. But it might not result in a permanent placement in care, which seems to be what they want.
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Yes, she is likely to end up a ward of the state in a lockdown psy unit.

I have known two BPD. Once they get used to having you around...you are also going to be subjected to wild swings and abusive behavior.... not just family get to enjoy this

Next major flare up, call 911. Have her transported for safety..hers and others. Then, demand a transfer to a facility to handle her. Do not accept this person back...do not accept responsibility to see to hr continued safety. Done. Let social services handle it
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Cmagnum: She is mean etc towards more than just her immediate family. She is this way towards some strangers, some ppl in medical field, neighbors, family and ppl she is not close to at all. She has more than severe BPD as well.

CarlaCB: Where might Joe find more info about obtaining guardianship of his 53 yr old severely mentally ill mother and all the court stuff and a list of what court considers incompetent etc to grant guardianship etc. If that makes sense I suck at wording lol.

KatieKate: That is Joe's fear that even if his mother would willingly go into assisted living, a group home, etc. would she be kicked out and would the places be to handle her abusiveness, behavior, rage, emotional issues and physical stuff etc.
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They should cut off all contact with her.
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I was trying at time of posting the question to add more than just posting a question but apparently the site has a time limit to posting so I am adding what I would of put here in comments.... I am posting on behalf of someone I care about (will call them "Joe" and their significant other "Jamie"). Joe's mother is a very mentally ill individual (severe Bpd, Bipolar, Etc) who has been and is abusive (mentally, emotionally, verbally and physically (as well verbally and physically inappropriate (touching them in areas that are private or near private, making comments that are"adult" subject manner to put it lightly, putting her body on or over others bodys, makes disturbing noises, tries to and does even when ppl tell her to stop n try hold her away she kissing ppls necks n lips n elsewhere, etc) toward Joe and Jamie esp.)) towards everyone in her life currently esp. Joe and Jamie and those in her past (ex husband, exfriends, etc). Joe's mother is a danger to herself, Joe, Jamie and others. Joe's mother self harms and not just cutting herself with knives, razorblades, etc she self harms in other ways that are considered self harm like she bumps into things on purpose, bangs her hands (sometimes other body parts) against walls/glass coffee tables/counters/etc agressively and with force, takes her nails and drags them with varying amounts of force along her arms leaving many deep lines in her skin some that bleed and scab up, etc. She has expressed not caring if she lives or dies even on a few occasions saying she wants to die just let her have the knives so she can do it. As for ppl in her life she has come at Jamie to attack her, has inapprorately touched Jamie, has verbally emotionally mentally attacked Jamie on a regular basis, has threatened Jamie even infront of cops strangers and medical professionals. She has done all this towards Joe too and even more over Joe's life like when he was in his teens she bit Joe hard (cuz this incident at the time she was court ordered to stay away from Joe for 3 months but she sneakily saw him still). She also treats Joe more like he is her husband, lover or father. She has also physically attacked and tried to attack Joe's brothers wife and has had to be tazzed by cops numerous times in past. About 10 yrs ago she went threw a court ordered program called Interact etc but as time in the program went on by she didnt do her part esp. after about 40% into it. Her primary has tried to get her to go see a psychiatrist but she doesnt listen and her primary doctor has tried so much other stuff for Joe's mother for both her mental health issues and physical health issues (diabetes, swelling in leg/feet, hole in colon, etc). The way Joe's mother is now is how she has always been since she was a child to when she left her abusive family to when she married then divorced to court issues til now. Time has only made things worse she is getting worse and worse. The threats have become more, her anger and rage has gotten worse, etc. Joe and Jamie have tried setting boundaries, medium chill and other things those in mental health and medical health have suggested and what books by professionals have suggested. Joe is stuck in a rental agreement or lease til September with his mother (he moved in to be a part time caregiver about 9 yrs ago). After reading all of what I have mentioned here can anyone suggest any help to get Joe's mom the help she truly needs (rather she wants the help or not). Is there any places Joe can put his mother into that can help her get better and take care of her? Is there anyone or anyplace or organization that can help Joe and Jamie with Joes mom and to protect Joe and Jamie from Joes mom? I see the pain they go threw, the stress and emotional pain they are in, etc and it just breaks my heart and I feel for them. I am also afraid and fear that one day Joe's mom will do something that will harm Joe and Jamie badly or worse. :(
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People with BPD are often only mean toward their immediate family members and act normal with others unless they begin to get too close. Just having BPD does not make one incompetent, although it does make them difficult if not impossible to deal with.
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I would make sure the group home knows the truth of this person. Often these group senior homes cannot handle psych. Problems on the scale of BPD.
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Only if someone obtains guardianship over her, which requires that she be found by a court to be incompetent.
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