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For four months my sisters have created extreme animosity over disagreement over rent one should pay to move in with my mother. I have been shut out, not allowed contact with my mother because there is no house phone and sister ignores my calls, texts to her cell. I live out of state and cannot visit. This past Saturday I was notified by the bank that I had been removed from my mother's bank account which I closely monitored for 11 years. I am upset beyond belief. I believe there is undue influence and exploitation of finances.

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Yes, you are right. Although coherent isn't quite the word: it's a question of mental capacity. Is she of sound mind, would a reasonable person agree that she is of sound mind.

The point about DPOA is that it survives the donor's permanent loss of mental capacity, whether that's through dementia, mental illness, injury, or whatever happens. And a DPOA can be annulled by the donor only while the donor is in his/her right mind.

Plain old power of attorney can be given by anyone to anyone for any purpose that they please. Supposing, oo I don't know, I was going abroad for a couple of months and wanted someone else to pay my bills for me. I could give that person power of attorney, limit it to whatever I wanted him to do on my behalf, and end it at a particular time. It's essentially just granting someone authority to act for you.

It makes my heart sink when I hear of your sort of situation. Your brother isn't acting for your mother's benefit as such, exactly - he's trying to keep her possessions in order, perhaps with an eye to administering her estate later on; and you can see why he wouldn't want bits and pieces disappearing at random. But don't you and your brother argue about it - it's for your mother to make her wishes plain to both of you.

You and your brother should approach your mother together and ask her what she wants done. If she wishes to give items to you (or anyone else) then of course she has a perfect right to do that. But she has also made your brother responsible for protecting her welfare, which includes making sure people don't walk off with stuff (I don't mean you, I mean "people", you know the sort). It's not fair of her not to tell him if she plans to give specific items away. Tell, not ask, she doesn't need his permission; but she should do him the courtesy of not making the job she's given him more difficult by making vague promises to you without telling him.
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churchmouse, you indicated that Dpoa is not enforceable unless the mother is losing her ability to reason? is that the same for POA as well? my brother is being a bully. he has POA and doesn't consult me on anything. can he assert himself as POA if mom is still capable. for instance., she told me I could have anything from her house that I want.. He told me I am not to take, sell or give away anything. I told him that since mom is still coherant she can make her own decisions.. am I right?
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Getting my mom a cell phone didn't work. She complained about having to keep it charged. I'm expecting her to get a house phone as soon as she moves into a house but whether we'll be told the new address or phone number is questionable.
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Corporations are pretty transparent and their tax returns are public. Look yours up on the IRS website.
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We have , it was cut off... we have done many things in the past, I drove almost 4 hrs to meet with an ADT Rep. that spoke Spanish so our Mother would understand that it would be user friendly and would be as simple as a push of the button in an Emergency , my controlling sisters said she wouldn't wear it and was a waste of money , a few months later she fell and was on the floor for 26 -27 hrs and afterwards I reiterated the importance , and nothing was done ... I have tenacity , they call it obsession, and our mother suffers and pays for it in suffering
Im meeting with ...a mediator in the next week , God as my witness I have tried and will show the timeline and emails, Im not out to win, its about our mothers Safety health and well being
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Lol
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Oh gosh! We got mom a cell phone and two weeks later she said it didn't work, she couldn't call out because there was no dial tone.
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If your goal is really closeness, why not just put aside that mom can afford a cell phone and just give her one.
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Well CMOUSE the Dr Phil part was rhetorical , not meant for anyone's amusement this by no ,means is amusing ,simply stating that Im willing to put all the cards on the table and show any professional whats really going on believe me I have wised up , my concerns are genuine and real , my intentions are sincere, yet I am not being given a chance to be heard out by my sisters. I have spoken to professionals as a matter of fact , and was merely sharing the story. Given all the details have not been heard I understand how JEANNEGIBBS is quick to jump to conclusions. Our mother has sufficient money to have a phone , alarm and other safeguards' put in for her protection, her well being and for our peace of mind , yet personal loans are taken for Personal use and MOM is not being taken care of as well as she should or could be , the part of her being about her being able to care for herself is questionable and will be evaluated by a Dr. soon, SO YES it is a BIG DEAL !! Being Moms care isn't Paramount yet loans are secretive , it IS A BIG DEAL !!
She also has early signs of dementia and other health problems and concerns, you don't know the FACTS , We want to visit our mom FREELY , yet are being kept from it , we want a phone , yet she has none , cell or otherwise.
80% or more of Moms finances being used for PERSONAL reasons , is not only unethical its Criminal. And yes SECRET LOANS and the other violations , personal moral , ethical and otherwise will be brought up , with the ATTY.
We have continued over the period of 4 months tried to communicate , openly and have been more than friendly and diplomatic to offer resolutions in many more ways than I even care to share with you , We by now means have wanted to involve our mother and have gone out of our way NOT to involve her.
No one is Blaming my Moms bad knee on them, the FACT that their petty arguments get in the way of our mothers well being and because of it they don't communicate that is appalling and that you see it as something else is disturbing to me.
The hard feelings have come from the hostile takeover as Im going to characterize it because when DYB and myself were handling things for the past 11-12 yrs we were very open and forthcoming about everything we did when it involved Our mother. As a matter of fact I did research when my father passed away and suggested to handle it as a corporation which is basically how my Dad set it up , and how for almost 12 yrs now its been done , I am the eldest son 2nd oldest overall by the way.
So now that our mother has on set of dementia and has had a little more to handle and is not being kept abreast HONESTLY I might add by everyone as it was before , she isn't completely aware of whats REALLY going on.
Oh another fun fact Jeanne Gibbs Ive been a widower for almost 12 yrs now and raised 4 kids , 3 of them alone the 4th was grown when there Mother passed away so I can empathize with you.
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STEP AWAY FROM THE TV. There is no entertainment in resolving conflict, only in exacerbating it; that is why the whole idea would be extremely bad news for your mother. Do you really think your family's situation is amusing? Wise up.
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What on earth is all the grief about the "secret" loan? The sister who did it does not consider it a "loan" but rather an exchange of cash for a postdated check. You consider it a loan for seven days. But either way, that sister did NOT exploit your mother and steal the money. No financial harm came to mother. Mother is in her right mind. She knew what was going on and she agreed to it. I cannot figure out what the Big Deal is here. Why should Sis have contacted anyone else about this if Mother was OK with the deal? And why do you insist that she admit this was a "loan," when does does admit what happened and just wants to put a different label on it. For heavens sake, if this is indicative of the nature of your disagreements, I'm appalled.

Blaming the bad communication between two sisters for your mother's knee replacement is another example of a strange basis for hard feelings. You also say Mother doesn't need someone to care for her full time, and at the same time seem to blame the sisters for having a gap when one left and the other wasn't there yet. Which is it, she needs full-time coverage, or she can get along on her own pretty well?

I hope before you deal with the mediator you weed the blaming and bitterness out of your story. Stick to the facts. And absolutely decide what you want to have happen. Nothing you can do now is going to change the "secret loan." That is a done deal, with no harm done, as far as you've described it. Do you want to be able to visit your mother freely? Do you want to provide her with a telephone? Do you want the phone charges to be paid out of mother's account? Figure out exactly what you do want, and be prepared to compromise and negotiate.

I hope the end result is peace within the family, and action in your mother's best interest.

Do let us know how this comes out.
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Country mouse DR ,Phil is on TV he is a Psychologist and deals with these type of issues , Im willing to show anyone and everyone that Im not guilty of any wrong doings with this and willing to do what's best for our Mom
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lsmiami
My sister DYB and I have always been very open about our mothers finances and any thing we did or had planed we emailed or called and basically took a consensus before making a final decision, I don't want to make it a legal issue but after 4 months of conceding and trying to get cooperation , I see no recourse but to involve an Atty. or court to decide , I cant turn a blind eye and be sorry for not having done something later.
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Sorry, I'm being dim - Dr Phil is who? Not the mediator, somebody else?
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I should ask Dr Phil if he could very sweetly write them a friendly but professional letter explaining what the mediation process does (and, just as importantly, what it doesn't do). When they realise their two penn'orth will get heard too they might be more interested?
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Well to be honest I don't see more than 3 or 4 of us being there , the 3 that are not cooperating at this time will only see this as a threat to lose control which is all they want , to come out in the open with it they will have to be honest , they wont swallow their pride and admit to being wrong in anyway , I would bet my bottom dollar on that , oh did I mention Dr Phil was willing to meet with us , Im going to let them know , and I'll bet my bottom dollar they will laugh and say Im ridiculous and disagree that its needed or that there is anything wrong , or Im simply trying to get my way , and yes I am , its just transparency plain and simple and prove our mother is being taken care of in a fair way , if it was true why be secretive and mysterious , and deny the LOAN ?
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I'm glad you're taking this to a mediator, and glad that he's a retired judge. There are seven of you? Will you be able to get everyone round the table? Goodness I hope the mediator has plenty of headache pills handy… :) Seriously, very best of luck, and I hope you all make progress. Grit your teeth and stick with it.
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Oh and yes Country Mouse , my sister being PETULANT is a very good characterization of how she is , which is why she shuts us out , we are and have been very reasonable , and as we've both said have never had this problem in the past
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Yes there are many more details to this , that would definitely convince you of they're wrong doing but it would take forever and they can be good but aren't being at this time , I can honestly say they are trying to atone for bad things they have done in the past , yet doing so at the cost of alienating us and blatantly lying , we have EMAILS and texts to support this , yet since they have shut us out and made us out to be the heavy , our mom is blind to what they are doing , we are gathering our proof and going to a mediator and put an end to this , I hope and pray that no Criminal charges are brought on them , it would break my moms heart if it does happen I can honestly say we've tried for over 4 months to make amends , Myself , DYB , and my youngest brother are on the same page , he is getting married in 8 days and we've tried to keep it to a minimum and will wait till after his wedding to have the mediator intervene ,who happens to be a retired judge. I still feel that there will be tension at the wedding. Like DYB said its never happened before my oldest sister took it on her own to get our other 2 sisters on her side , who she has coincidently has had feuds with in the past ,over my Mom none the less....what a laugh that now they have joined forces. I dread and have little doubt I regret to say that they will give themselves gratuities and neglect our Mom. She is with out a phone , home or cell , no home alarm or medic alert and wont let us visit her.I don't think the mediator will like this arrangement anymore than we do ,I have faith and Know the Good lord will look over her and feel like my Dad has watched over her all these years. It will all come to an end soon , I think you all for the feedback and insight , Our only true Concern is our Mom her well being, happiness and that what my father setup for Us Jointly as a Family in unity as siblings is carried out
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I'm not sure why she denies borrowing money. For some reason because she immediately gave my mother a check (an IOU) that couldn't be cashed for seven days doesn't count as a loan to her. I didn't make an issue of it at the time but was taken aback that she alone took my mother to the bank for a cashier's check. We were getting along fine then. My mother didn't call me about it either. I do thank god that she repaid it or again I would be the bad guy trying to recover it as I had to with another sister. And yes, she likely doesn't want anyone in her business. Who looks after my mother? There needs to be checks and balances somehow. I will look again to make amends and try for cooperation.
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When my father drew up the documents he was trying to be fair by placing oldest to youngest in charge and in the Will naming everyone equally.
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Yes I know countrymouse that I did not word it correctly. My mother had already had one knee replaced years earlier and due to osteoarthritis needed it replacement on the other knee. The operation then became necessary after the fall.
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Ok. Thank you both for clarifying.

So. When is the house purchase to be finalised (i.e. how long have you got before things get incredibly complicated)?

Who was your father's executor? - and therefore has access to all the trust details and so on.

How did it come about that your mysterious oldest sister was appointed DPOA? - was that your late father's decision initially, with your mother following suit?

WS, how often do you see your mother? Often enough to have heart-to-heart type chats with her? I'm wondering how she was persuaded to agree to live with young children if she finds them - I wouldn't say a nuisance, what grandmother would admit to that?! - a handful, then. What do you think she was thinking? Because it's one thing to tolerate and, perhaps, worry about your daughter and her family; quite another to upend your later years living with her.

Is your mother up to using her own cell phone? You can get senior-friendly types, maybe see how she gets on with one. At least then DYB could talk to her direct, which might ease some worries.

I don't understand the loan bit. Why would someone deny having had the use of money which she has paid back in full? Any ideas? Does she just dislike or resent your knowing her business, as she sees it?

What would you both like to happen? Think that through, and think constructively - because otherwise this is all going to circle back and bite your mother.

FYI, bits like this:
"...She fell in 2012 (was left alone because one sister stormed out and didn't inform another because of their communication issues) and was on the floor overnight, and as a result needed knee replacement surgery which she had been avoiding for years due to osteoarthritis. However, my mother does not need round the clock care…"
- don't help. The argument is not cogent - your mother needed knee replacement surgery because of chronic osteoarthritis and avoided it for years; OR she needed it because of your sister's petulant behaviour; but you can't have it both ways - and is also likely to put up the backs of those many readers who know just how damned stressful it is to spend your life trying to prevent all falls. Particularly if you then say your mother doesn't need much in the way of everyday care, thus minimising the value of your sister's being on site.

I think it's good that you're together on this. Stick together, but also check each other's perspective and sense of proportion, and mind each other's language. With luck and goodwill, this can still be put right - not easily, but it can. Nothing terrible has happened yet. Remember that all you both really want is to make sure your mother's protected.
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I wanted to add that , there have been several lies told to our Mom which can and have been proved yet they again deny it and refuse to tell our Mom the truth only to cover their ass , as they've put it
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Thank you country Mouse for your response,
However the caretaking sister does have a fulltime job and my mother(80 yrs. old) has complained of the kids and her behavior and basically tolerates her ,My youngest sisters kids are not adults, elementary school age ,DYB is my 2nd oldest sister which myself (oldest son) and Oldest sister (mysterious/secretive) had jointly appointed her when my Dad passed 12 yrs ago because she is trustworthy and still is I might add, My oldest sister got a $50,000 loan to by a house from my mom, she did pay it back , however she denies having done this and has continually denied so 4 times, since we confronted her about this she convinced our mom to take DYB of the account ,and wont say why. I told my oldest sister if she was going to accuse her of wrong doing to prove it and audit her and Account to show her accusations, press charges , she didn't respond and again denies her wrong doing. She refuses now to be transparent. We did not exactly tell the other sister to PAY RENT , but to carry her weight . With the new home the Taxes will increase 10 fold, other expenses will too, the youngest has weekly drama with her EX also a concern, and she often gets what she calls Gratuity in the form of GAS , eating out, Gifts etc. , which we've overlooked but have kept tabs on. We have all provided her care in different ways and several capacities , upkeep of her home , tax services, Dr's apt, etc. only 2 of the sisters receive gratuity as they put it and we've told them it should be a selfless act. Sure the one that will be living with her deserves some form or Compensation and she will be in the form of better living conditions for her and her kids , however its a tradeoff , for her and our Mother.
In the past she has received moneys from our mom because of our mothers good nature and because my sister plays the pity card.
The finances were never an issue as far as transparency till now , and having discovered d that the denial of the others loans has become a major concern.
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My mother is 80 years old and diabetic, high blood pressure, thyroid. She fell in 2012 (was left alone because one sister stormed out and didn't inform another because of their communication issues) and was on the floor overnight, and as a result needed knee replacement surgery which she had been avoiding for years due to osteoarthritis. However, my mother does not need round the clock care and can do for herself. My sister has a full-time job. She is not providing anything right now except just being there when she isn't working. When the time comes that my mother needs more, a home health care person can come in. No one is expecting my sister to quit her job.
My mother had been adamant about not living with anyone and has had a falling out with this daughter before. Now they (three sisters) have convinced my mother to buy a 4 bedroom house for sister and her two young boys. I accepted it and approached my mother about a fair rent and then my sister. It was going to be a few hundred less than what she is paying now for a two bedroom duplex. This didn't have to escalate. She is now using my mother very much like divorced parents do. Not allowing visitation and turning the children against the other parent. I have contacted a few times through email and text, said I'm sorry, apologized, said we can work this out. I've been ignored and hung up on.
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DYB you don't say how old your mother is. I gather from your profile that she has diabetes: is there any other significant mental or health impairment?

I don't think you're going to like this, but you did ask. As far as I can glean, there are two issues:

1. You think your youngest sister should pay rent to your mother, and she doesn't. What do the eldest sister and your brother think? What does any of them say is your mother's view of it?

To declare an interest: I live with my mother, she pays (partly) for my keep, I provide 24/7 care for her. I would be seriously pissed off if my siblings suggested I should be paying rent. What with? I should have a full-time job too? I would also be - I have also been, I should say - pretty miffed with grumbles about my adult children coming to stay, although I have simply ignored them. I agree that the living costs of young children are a bit different; but all you need to know is whether your mother understands and is content with the arrangement.

2. You have been removed from your mother's bank account. You say you have closely monitored it for 11 years. To what purpose? Have you had occasion to act, at all? What was, what is, the point of your being a signatory to the account? And, to be mischievous, what - apart from virtue - would stop you helping yourself to the funds if you remained a signatory?

You seem to be a self-appointed guardian. If your oldest sister does have DPOA, even if it is in force, which it won't be unless your mother is losing capacity, and if your youngest sister is living with your mother and, presumably, expects to become her primary caregiver over time, what role do you see yourself playing in your mother's affairs?

Or are you concerned more about the execution of your late father's wishes? Are you his executor? Clearly not (see below).

If your oldest sister is the ?DPOA, and your youngest sister is moving in to the new house, where does the "secret loan" come into this?

Now, having said that and made myself unpopular, transparency is always desirable and in some cases mandatory. At a guess, I would say you are entitled to sight of all of your late father's documents. Do you know who his attorney was? Can you find out?

If you are concerned about your mother's welfare, then arrange to visit her. If you believe you would not be welcome at her home, book a local hotel. If you cannot get either sister to arrange a date, deal with your brother - he can even accompany you. It would be completely unreasonable and unacceptable for your sisters to prevent you from seeing your mother, but common sense dictates making an appointment which is convenient to all parties.

I agree wholeheartedly that your mother's wellbeing is your business, I think most daughters would. Unfortunately, since you don't provide her care and you haven't been appointed to look after her finances, it isn't quite as clearly your business as it is your sisters'. Speaking for myself I do attempt to keep my siblings informed, but as far as I know I'm not obliged to lift a finger to do so.

If I wanted my siblings to be more transparent and open and involve me more, I don't think I'd go about it by starting with a fundamental disagreement. You were the one who proposed the rent plan, yes? Possibly not your best move.

I'm sorry. I do understand that you are genuinely worried that your mother is being exploited. But if you want to do anything about it you're going to have to mend fences, and allow yourself to be reassured if, in fact, it turns out that they are acting perfectly within bounds. I hope this gets sorted out. Best of luck.
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How did the bank remove you from the account? I didn't think that was possible without your signature?
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People need to agree to mediation or be court ordered. I do not think it will work.

I do not personally like getting courts involved in family matters, their word is final.
They may just place her, which would make her miserable and likely consume her assets. Courts should be a last resort only if there is criminal activity or abuse.
Before you hire a lawyer I strongly suggest you visit and try to personally re-engage with your sisters and family.
When was the last time you saw mom? What condition is she in today? Does she require caregiving, how involved? Would her condition necessitate ALF or NH were it not for the familial living arrangements? Your sister may be paying her rent in sweat equity. If mom did buy a family home, is there a mortgage and can sis upkeep ( taxes, mortgage) if mom goes to NH? Is mom legally competent to buy a home or does she have moms DPOA. BTW, even if dad arranged for POA for mom before passing, she would have had the right to make changes as long as she was competent, so the original docs may be moot.

You sound reasonable, and may have a very legitimate concern. Cutting you off is completely inappropriate. Try reconciliation, before you go legal.

I sincerely hope this works out for mom and family unity or at least civility.

Regards
L
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I am the Brother , I recently found out that my oldest sister that is behind this , had gotten personal loan from my Mother ,for almost $50 grand secretively and did pay her back however when I asked her why she has blocked us out , and denies the loan not once but several times , how does she expect us to trust her .... she will not answer
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