My sister is threatening me with court over Mom. Advice?

lilyat - You aren't helping, you are judging, possibly from your own experience. Please read the original post.

Perhaps you need a mediator to look at this case objectively. Your Mom has a right to see your sister and you're in the way.

*They are unhappy with my terms of visitation*.... Your sister has every right to see your her Mother so what's your problem?

I would also be curious as to why the sister now wants contact with mother. It is a cold cruel world and anyone can take out an insurance policy on an individual. I say this because you mentioned that your mom becomes stressed/upset when your sister visits. What could be her motivation in visiting? Guilt, repentance or more financial gain?

I have been through something similar. I don't know what state you live in, but there is a district attorney in each county. Ask to be directed to the Elder Abuse department. Do this while your mom is still alive. I wish I had known to go there before my mom passed 2 years ago. I would start there. It's free. Take all of your paperwork and as much proof as possible, including photos and videos. This is a criminal offense and you must be your mom's advocate. She doesn't have anyone else to speak for her or take care of her at this point of her life. Get everyone's business card, and take notes for future references. One other thing that you may want to do, is contact the law departments of colleges and universities in your area. These lawyers that charge enormous fees, also teach at these places. Sometimes they are willing to meet with you, guide you, or direct their legal assistant to do something to help you. But most importantly, don't sit back and be passive.

Yeah, Pam, I agree that there is a lot of missing info here. There may not have been any net proceeds (or profit) at all. I was just asking for a clarification if the facts are as stated in Jessie's example. If I follow it correctly, it looks like sis pocketed 100K after the improvements and selling costs were paid, and mom got nothing. If so, it would seem to be fraud. This is probably a good example of the problems of joint ownership.
It sounds like sq2000 is doing all of the work, and, like so many of us, is being bullied. I am changing my POA to include payment for services to whichever child ends up with the short straw. My POA for my mom specifically prohibits payment for services in an attempt to placate my bully brother, but it hasn't helped. If I had only known then what I know now. At least some payment for the time spent would help to reduce resentment.

akdaughter, there was some sort of mortgage on the house, but the amount is not clear nor is 2000 sure if she was paying on it. Now in 2007 home values were high, but they seriously crashed in 2009 and in many places are still down. Add the cost of improvements e.g. a roof and a kitchen or bath upgrade and bingo, you lose your axx.

Jessiebelle, I understand your calculations in the house sale explanation, but I still see a problem. If the house is sold for 150K after sis and mom each put in 100K and then sis added 30K of improvements, why does sis get all of her investment back after commissions and closing costs are paid and mom gets nothing? Seem to me that the net proceeds (100K after sales costs and the 30K of improvements) should have been shared.

2000, it may be helpful to find out the sale price of the house. This is a matter of public record in the County where the house is located. Check the Clerk and Recorder website it may be available online. Any encumbrance on the house would be a recorded document. Another check of the Building Department may show any permits pulled by address.

I would add acouple things.
1. Find the sale date of the house and any eviction. Also, locate any doctor visits on or about that time within 6 mo prior. If dr diagnosed cognitive impairment, early dementia, etc.; then you would have proof that sis took advantage of the estate.
2. You have POA, so you are in the clear. You have plenty of substantiation for the care you have provided since eviction.
3. Use this documentation should you be called to court.
4. I wouldn't hire a lawyer as this is a ridiculous suit and in my mind, your sis just got an attorney to send you a scary lawyer letter meant to scare you.

A judge will likely throw this out of court or have an independent evaluation if your mothers health or assets are believed to be at risk under your care.

Honor your sisters request to not communicate with her directly. You might want to bait her with a calendar and have her pick all her visitation dates and times. Hopefully, you can accommodate most of them, then hold sis to them...if she misses, changes, etc...document it and take it to court with you.

I am going to consult another attorney with my other siblings with the information of the sale of the house. I appreciate the everyone's comments and concerns.

My sister made this known to all of our other siblings. There are 6 of us, and the other 4 siblings are well aware of this agreement. I know at least the 3 siblings I still talk to are willing to vouch that this was the agreement (the other one won't because she's a substance abuser).

You're getting into a twist here. If your mother was not competent to transfer the house, she would not be competent to understand the sales price would be split. This would be only if there was a profit, I'm sure. I'm very confused on what mortgage you were paying. It had to be in your sister's name if she owned the house. Did your sister put anything in writing about what would happen if the house was sold? If not, did she discuss it in front of many people? There are such things as oral contracts if they can be proven. They have a hard time standing up in court if there are no witnesses. I usually figure that if it isn't in writing, it won't hold up in court. It will just turn into a "he-said, she-said."

As far as the mortgage goes -- it was $0 at one point. I believe my sister took out money to fix up the house, but the amount of money she took out certainly did not go back into that house. Major upgrades and renovations were made after we left. I believe what I was paying on the mortgage was the money that she took out.

If I am unable to reverse the actual transaction for $1, wouldn't I be able to sue on behalf of my mother citing Promissory Estoppel? My mother's money was paying the mortgage and making upgrades into the house based on the belief and promise that she would be receiving half of the sales proceeds. Why else would she pay someone else's mortgage? This is something I plan on speaking to an attorney about.

I agree that the police presence is a little bit strong, but no one else in our family wants to be involved because they disagree with what has happened. My sister's attorney is the one who proposed a police officer be present at their expense.

When the house was sold is also a major consideration. Say, if the house was bought for $200K and Sister was co-owner, then we could assume she had $100K interest in the house. Suppose in 2008 when housing prices plummeted, she paid $1 to take on the house, then paid $30K to bring it up to market and subsequently sold it for $150K, there would be no profit. This is taking into consideration the half that Sister owned, the amount invested in improvements, and the commission and closing costs. It is the way of real estate. We would have to have some numbers to know if profit was made. I see nothing illegal in the dealings if this is the way it went down.

What I do see is sibling conflict. I wonder who is doing the fighting when visits happen. Is it the siblings?

I think the court would allow your sister visitation with your mother just as they would with a child.. As Jessie says you probably don't have to allow this in your home providing Mom can travel somewhere else for the visit.preferably transported by a neutral party and Mom does not point blank refuse. i have no idea what sis is trying to achieve but these fights usually involve money that either your mother has or sis thinks she has. i am assuming the mortgage became zero when the house was sold. Were there any contractors leins on the house that had to be paid off before the title was cleared. how much money are we talking about here and how much was the mortgage that you paid each month? Is your mother actually declared incompetent or do you have the POA for when she becomes so. I fully understand that Mom becomes distressed by interactions with your sister. Do you work? if not how do you support yourself? Does your mother need full time care at this point? How does your lawyer suggest you proceed.?

That your sister was on the deed with your mother and you wanted to move her to a better place changes things completely. Since the mortgage was zero in 2007, you must have made payments before then. You and your sister would have to work out any compensation between yourselves. Legally I don't see any way to proceed under these conditions.

You don't have to let your sister come to your home unless she has interest in it. You can have your mother meet her elsewhere. I found the idea of police supervision to be a bit strong. Maybe family supervision would be more reasonable??

I would just try to understand what she wants, then work with her to try to mend the broken fences some. But of course, keep the defenses up around your mother and yourself. Since your mother is not wealthy, apparently your sister just wants to see her mother without hiring a policeman?? Just guessing here, since the situation is confusing to me.

As far as the deed, my sister and mother were joint owners. When I stepped in to take over my mother's healthcare and finances, my sister maintained my mother still owned her half of the house. I was paying the mortgage (which I can prove). I went to her to ask if she could sell the house or buy my mother's half out so I could A. Take my mother somewhere else that was more handicapped accessible to live, and B. So my mother could pay for some of her debts. This is when the trouble started.

I spend my mother's money on her. I even spend my own money on her because what she gets from SS isn't enough. I jacked my credit cards up paying for diapers and medications. My sister's lawyer said in a letter that a court will allow them to view my mother's financial records, which I think a load of crap.

What's funny is that my mother and my sister never saw eye to eye. My sister would yell at my mother even when she was showing signs of dementia. I now see why my mother appointed me to take of her. My mother's dignity is so important to me and it drives me absolutely crazy that her own child would cause so much controversy around her in a time when she is unable to speak or defend herself.

Ask your lawyer what is the next step and whether APS or police should be involved. It sounds like you have ducks in a row and she is desperately trying to bully you into letting her keep her Ill gotten gains, and has either found herself an unethical lawyer willing to help her, or has lied to an ethical one. If the facts and evidence you have are correct, she can't win this.

"Tell me what you want, and let's work this out. I'll be spending mom's money on my lawyers. You'll be spending your own. Is that really what you want to do? If you want to communicate with me directly, I'd be happy to hear from you. Tell your lawyer I want no further communiques from him, and, if that's what you want? I'll see him and you in court."

Return her attorney's letters "to sender" unopened.

If you've done something wrong with your mom's money yourself? Be worried. If not, call her bluff.

It is confusing about the house and the amount of money owed. Was your mother the only name on the deed? Did someone take out a second mortgage? Home equity loans were plentiful before 2008, so I wondered about that. It was a time when many people took out loans, then watched their houses go underwater the next year.

In addition to what Pam said, if you live in a large city, there might be a special unit of the Prosecutor's office that deals with crimes against the elderly.

Sorry this is happening to you.

As others have said you and your other siblings need to see this sister facing charges. She committed fraud, IDK who you're talking to with this "the police won't do much", you need to pursue this, no one in their right mind sells their home for a $1.

If you keep going until you find someone who will handle this.

Get all the paperwork you can on this, the timeline, when you were forced out of the house, and go after her.

Forget about an apology, you won't get one. And you don't have to let her in YOUR HOME, I would call the police if she shows up and won't leave. Get a restraining order against her.

You need to stop handling this like you're dealing with a rational person, you're not.

Just from reading your comments I can tell(I know because it is normal and tried this mindset with my own brother until I realized I wasn't dealing with a logical person) you're looking at this as "why is she like this?", throw that out the window, accept she is a monster and act accordingly.

Good luck.

I just have to say I am tired of being railroaded and being made into being a bad person. I know that this is all being done out of spite. I do not feel that my sister is even being sincere or else she would not have stopped visiting my mother and she would not be terrorizing the people who take care of her.

I firmly believe my sister owes my mother an apology for everything she has put us through, and I would love to make that a prerequisite before visitations continue. Just because my mother has dementia does not mean she is any less of a person.

Pam,

Thank you for the advice. I'm going to look into this, I've already requested medical records and I'm going to look into the sale of the house.

It's funny, because my sister never denied my mother was not still an owner (after she signed over the house, she maintained that my mother still held ownership). I have letters from a previous lawyer dealing with the eviction that they would be unable to sell the house because too much money was owed and there would be no profit (despite the mortgage balance being $0 in 2007). Plus they said my mother owed them money for work that was done in the house (without her consent, obviously). Can you believe that their lawyer told me to take my mother to public housing?

I went for a consultation with a lawyer, who told me that I had to allow my sister into my house to visit with my mother, and that courts will agree but will probably limit visitation to twice a month. I'm not totally against her coming to my house (even though I do not want her there) because it is her mother. I am just in favor of limiting visits and requiring supervision. I'm trying to act in my mother's best interest which her lawyer does not seem to understand (they believe I'm acting selfishly.)

You don't have to let anyone in your house. See her in court.
Get the medical records that prove mom was incompetent at the time of the signing. Get the house sale records. Get all Mom's bank records. Then ask the DA and not the police, to investigate a case of elder abuse, fraud and punish the offenders. Prosecutors don't cost you a dime.

I also do not believe she is seeking guardianship. Her husband would look at that as a major inconvenienced (I could tell he didn't like when she would stay over for the weekend prior to her becoming fully handicapped).

There's 6 siblings in all. It's essentially myself along with my 3 other siblings against my sister (and other sister, but that's a separate mess). 4/6 would not sign off on her receiving Guardianship.

I was told the police would not do much, being that it would take research time and money to prove my mother was not competent. The transaction of the house was for $1, which means it technically was not gifted. The court does not look at whether it was sold for $1 or fair market value (unless you can prove she wasn't mentally competent).

One condition of visitation that my sister's lawyer originally agreed to was that my sister had to provide supervision (in the form of a police officer) to ensure everything went smoothly. However, they're now saying it is not cost convenient for her (ironic, because she made a profit on the house she sold).

I am not comfortable with her being in my house alone because of her temper. I feel that it would be in my mother's best interest that she was supervised to ensure she does not start a fight. My mother has been in such a good place considering what she is going through, and I have noticed that disruption has throws her off (and I'm the one who does the work to get her back on track, while my sibling leaves).

My sister's lawyer does not agree, and if I do not agree to their terms I guess they're going to take me to court. It's extremely unfortunate.

Another quick question: who is included in "your family" that your mother is now living with? Were you all living in your mother's house previously?

I'm sorry that you and your mother have all this conflict. Looking after someone with dementia is hard enough without it.

sq2000, just one quick question. How did you get the down payment for your house after you sister booted you out of mom's place?