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2 1/2 years ago, about a year after our step-mother passed away, it was evident dad couldn't safely remain in his house. Physically he was deteriorating, but his mind was sharp as ever.


My sister (68 now) had a place worked out at Assisted Living for him, but at the last minute he said he didn't want to go. So she ended up putting him up in a room in her house.


Over time it has grown to be too much for her. He is starting to fall a bit more frequently, and it is difficult for her to help him as she also has some lingering health issues (bad knees among them).


My wife and I both work FT, and don't have room in our house for him, and honestly could not do what she has done for him.


Every once in a while my sister will text a vent, but today when she texted, it really concerned me. She mentioned thoughts of suicide or disappearing (which she said she knew she couldn't), but she felt like she didn't have a life.


She has said dad says he never wants to go into a nursing facility, but I know he wouldn't want her life ruined.


I think we need to sit down and explain what this is doing to her, and see if this has an impact on his thinking about being relocated to a facility.


Open to thoughts, ideas, etc from those that may have gone down this path already.

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I guess the OP is out taking care of business of getting dad placed as we’ve not heard another word. I do hope he comes back and gives us an update. So frustrating when you don’t know if anyone is listening. Sure hope so! Hope his sister is doing better.
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Hi Favreon, I have been where your sister is. My elderly Mom lived with us for a year and I thought about suicide because I never got a break. I finally got in a support group that helped. (Some help, some don't) I think you have a good idea. Sit down with your sister and talk to her. When I was in that situation I was so overwhelmed I could not see the forest for the trees. It took an outside person to help me. I tried to get my Mom into Assisted Living but she would not go. She ended up having surgery and then passed away. Had my Mom lived I would have forced the issue. Things got so bad they were affecting my marriage and my health. I finally learned that I had to put on my oxygen mask first or I could not help anyone else. I hope this helps a bit.
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Stuck4ever May 2019
I’m on this boat. My sister and mom lived together (mom is 69) my sister said no more and kicked her out. Never asked me just said TAKE HER IM DONE. Now that she’s been here since January I have this rage toward her she’s demanding and mean. I’m married with a teen and college student who has a disease that I have to help her with. I think if I was dead I would t have to deal with this anymore. I think about death a lot
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It's time you stop asking your Dad what he wants. That time is done. What are you waiting for? When your sister has already killed herself, is too late.

I remember feeling the same as your sister. I was going crazy, I would cry and scream in my car, as I was driving alone. Once while driving, I almost got forced off a bridge by a semi that got too close, and my very first instantaneous thought, was : "Well at least this misery would be over." It was almost a disappointment when I managed to survice. ...Is that what you want for your sister.

No one would help me. All my brothers felt they were excused from helping by distance and their oh, so busy lives. My husband just wanted me to never speak of it and just never let it affect his life. Period. Basically heaping mor pressure on me.

You need to step in and TELL Dad and sister that it OVER. Find placement for him and DO IT. While they are both still alive !

You can "speak to him", but DO NOT ASK. Tell him the situation is untenable, and that it's a done deal. Make no bargains, and do not give him any power of veto over any part of the deal, or nothing will get done.

Do it now.
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NannaJ May 2019
I can absolutely relate to what you've said and have done the same. Have even thought about driving at speed into a tree to try and end things and not have to live with my mother any more. I am now in bed knowing that I have to get up and deal with another unhappy day. I'm not me any more and have forgotten who me actually was. I am an unhappy little girl again aged 63 but can't leave home again yet!!!
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Don't hesitate it sounds like she is desperate. For God's sake he needs to be put into a facility
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rovana: Sis is threatening suicide SO SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE.
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rovana May 2019
I know and I agree. No question something has to be done, actually something needed to be done long ago.  What I'm trying to do is hear ways and means of actually forcing dad.  Practical nuts and bolts. For example: Have a couple of big guys grab him, put him in a car and take him to a facility? Will the facility accept him if he does not consent? How hard is it to baker act him and get him taken out of the house? What steps you have to take to evict him?  What is the law on evictions in OP's jurisdiction.  
I worked as an admin. assistant for many years and I was constantly working to make the rubber actually hit the road and move the vehicle.  See, you can have a reasonable plan but unless all the nails in the horseshoe hold, it may fail.  And then the person under stress loses hope.  It's like planning a war - got to think ahead and consider all possibilities.  If I were brother I would take charge, start eviction proceedings, explain that guilting sister would not help, and just play as nasty as needed.
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This is a medical emergency!
Your sisters mental health is in crisis.
I would not hesitate getting your dad into a care facility. The reality is that caregivers often die from the stress, lack of sleep and other things associated with caring for loved ones.
I like the suggestion that you take him to a couple of facilities and say 'you have to choose one'.
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I would hire a Geriatric Care Manager to come in and do an evaluation. This person can also coordinate his care. Sometimes individual's will not listen to family when it comes to their care but if another professional comes in and makes the recommendation they often times are much more open to listen.

You can go online to the "Aging Life Care Association" and locate a Professional Geriatric Care Manager.

Remember, as long as he is competent NO one can force him to go to a long-term care facility. A Geriatric Care Manager can help him come to the best decision himself.
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MissingCally May 2019
If he is so coherent, then he should be able to live on his own. Since thisn't possible you need to get a power of attorney and do whatever needs to be done to put in a place where he is safe and the sister can get the rest she needs.
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Your sister needs help — before you make any decisions about care. If you make these choices without her input she may feel even worse. She may feel responsible for any choice she is not at peace with.

Please respect her feelings because she is fragile.

A threat of suicide is a cry for help. Get her a break, so she can regroup, then sit down and talk about the situation. Make the choice with her together - when she is calm, rational and able to think clearly.
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Favreon, can you take charge, tell dad that he is not making the decisions for his care, you are. What he is doing to your sis amounts to abuse - be brutally frank.  He is going into a facility and you will find the means to force this if he does not cooperate, whereas if he does, he can help locate and choose a facility.
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TNtechie May 2019
I really disagree with the tone of this posting:
(1) Seems a very disrespectful way to treat a father who still has his mental facilities.
(2) While father is competent, he is at least one of the decision makers.
(3) The daughter AGREED to this arrangement when father's care needs were not so demanding and has not readjusted her thinking and had a second discussion since care level and duration has changed. This is more about the daughter getting caught up in providing daily needs, not adjusting to the changing care needs or taking care of herself than the father "abusing" her. The OP needs to be the person stepping up and making sure that second discussion happens and the three of them (father and his daughters) implement a care plan that addresses everyone's needs. Father cannot do this alone because he doesn't know there is an issue or what options are available; care giver cannot do this alone because she is stressed out to the point of burnout. OP is the only one really thinking clearly at this point. There's no need to be emotionally abusive to their father.
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This can no longer be his decision. He is obviously oblivious to how much care he requires and the impact it is having on your sister. Speaking with him about it may help, but in my experience he will probably make promises about "doing better" or something similar. But nevertheless, he needs placement so your sister can have a life again. As others have already said, it is surprising how well seniors adapt to good facilities. They actually do better when surrounded by their contemporaries, listening to familiar music, sharing memories of their lives, etc. I was a visiting RN to several senior facilities, and it was so nice to see how happy & active the residents were. Best Wishes to your family.
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I guess an issue I have from this question, and one I posted, and what others have posted, can someone really be MADE to go to assisted living or elsewhere. I guess it depends on the state but in my state I am told that it is very hard to force someone to move from their home unless it is very clear they are a danger to themselves or others. One option would be to just abandon the loved one in their own home, but that is a recipe for disaster too. What are the legal options overall?
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rovana May 2019
I think that is the real problem. They can say "no" and you can say "no" but can you live with the consequences?  The issue is not just legal, but also moral for so many.  I think the thing that sometimes works is getting them on the radar of social services, APS, etc. as being at risk.  Had a friend who was struggling to get her MIL off the road.  She finally started carrying around DMV forms on reporting  a dangerous driver and handing them out to anyone who might be willing to report her MIL.  Explained that she was doing all she could to stop a dangerous situation and needed help from public.  Finally got MIL off the road.
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"He doesn't want to go" - but "he" doesn't get to decide that! Now your poor sister is on her last nerve/her last ounce of strength and about to crack. Whoa whoa whoa whoa - THOUGHTS OF SUICIDE ARE DEEMED A MEDICAL EMERGENCY! That is what they have suicide crisis phone lines set up for! Something must be done now and dad is not the decider on where he lives - not with sis.
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rovana May 2019
I agree with you, but when dad says "no" what happens then? Sis evicts him? How can she force him into care when she is not able to prove he is dangerous to himself or others? There is a legal issue, but there is also a moral issue and Sis sounds like she could not manage the guilt. One thing here: is Sis in a position to claim that she is victim of elder abuse herself? Could APS come in and deal with dad?
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The time to have done something was before posting this. You know your sister is at the breaking point. Man up and get him into a facility now. Dad has lost the opportunity to pick and choose. A life is at stake. Put yourself is sister's shoes. Would you do what she does? No...so move him and please report back that it was done. And afterwards continue to provide support by giving up one day a week or after work or whatever and visit him. She can’t do it all with the excuse of you having a full time job. Lots of people on here have full time jobs and do all the caregiving. It is what it is. I’m glad you are showing concern by posting. God help her.
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rovana May 2019
But Harpcat, how can he force dad into facility? A gun at his head? Obviously dad belongs in a facility, but any ideas on practical strategies to accomplish this?
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You already know the answer, you are just looking for approval. Put him in a facility immediately. Do not allow your sister to make decisions as she will be plagued with guilt. Quiet frankly it's her life or his.... & don't think she won't kill herself because she has already cried out for help by telling you she's suicidal. Suicide thoughts = suicide if nothing is done. You taking him for a week or 2 isn't going to help her because she knows at the end of it she's back in the same situation. Do something Now!!! & Stop allowing him to choose.
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I agree with many answers here. My dad 85 was perfectly content to 'allow' me to take care of him in his own home, his needs increased to where I couldn't be away for more than 1 overnight. He's not to stage where he needs assisted living...independent living -senior apartments- fit the bill much better. However, two meals a day are provided, housekeeping once a week, transportation to dr. appointments and many, many people his age to socialize and have meals with. I gave him a choice of this retirement community or a different one. We toured them together. Sister needs to put her foot down. My son, his grandson, (30) gave his full support and had a "man to man" chat with my dad! The location we chose is still in his general neighborhood and he can meet my son for lunch once a week as they always have, pick up his dry cleaning and do his banking at the bank he's done business with for the last 25 years.
As far as impact on his thinking, I wouldn't count on it. My father is from the generation that women did all the caretaking, and I have a great , full time career.
My father continues to be very selfish and focused only on his own needs. If you/sister don't put your needs first, no one will and sadly, especially not your father.
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Help your sister get away on a vacation. It doesn’t have to be expensive— just some time to recharge.
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MissingCally May 2019
She needs more than a vacation especially if she knows that her life is going to remain the same. Put him in a Assistant Living facility.
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Take Dad around to 2 Assisted Living Facilities you've personally checked out & that come highly recommended. Give him a choice of picking one or the other. You'll be doing HIM a favor and an even bigger favor for your poor sister who can't handle making even ONE more decision on Dad's behalf. Enough is enough. For some odd reason, people associate Assisted Living with being a 'bad' thing and a 'horrible' thing and something they'd NEVER want! In reality, it can be a wonderful, life enriching and life SAVING experience for all concerned, but mostly for the resident who winds up getting a whole new and better lifestyle surrounded by people his own age and caregivers who help him with everything he needs. My 92 y/o mother has been in an ALF since 2014 and I swear to you she would have died LONG AGO had she not! The environment there is way safer than the environment in my home, and they have 3 shifts of caregivers there who cater to her every need, vs. here, where we work and she'd be left alone all day to her own devices. Trust me when I tell you, a good ALF is a great thing.
Best of luck!
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Maybe your sister could use some help in the form of a caregiver to take that burden off of her shoulders. I have seen many families who try to take over care of their loved ones, only to end up burnt out, frustrated, and feeling overwhelmed. It also usually has a similar effect on the loved one. Bringing in a fully vetted responsible caregiver is a great way to provide relief and order for both the family and the loved one.
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I strongly assert you step up and man up. Your sister is crying out for help. I'm sorry Favreon, but sitting your father down to "explain what this is doing to her" is NOT enough.

Take vacation time/PTO or whatever your company offers and seek out appropriate housing based on your father's needs. It's completely understandable that you and wife can't take him in, you also have lives and still work. But to take a passive route is damaging your sister.

Take the lead: find housing and lovingly tell your father (man-to-man) that it's time to move into the next chapter of his life. And while you find housing, hire respite care or swap living spaces with your sister to give her a break. Call your sister today to tell her that you are on the way.

I'll be thinking of you and sending you well wishes. I know this won't be easy for you--this stuff totally stinks. Hang in there and get rest so you can do this.
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My husband and I have been caring for my 94 yr old dad for 12 years. He moved in with us, and yes, it can take a toll, especially these last couple years. Last year my sister started giving us some time off so we can have a date night, we do dinner and a movie. It helps. And twice a year she stays at my house for a week so we can do a cruise and have some much needed alone time. Works wonders for our moral. Offer her some time off to let her know she is not alone in this.
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I have said this over and over again. It is horrible to be out and "different" and have so many difficulties and cause so many problems. However, when it is too much for a caretaker (not all are cut out to be caretakers), you must remember that these people lived their lives and now it the turn of the younger people to live. No one should be forced to handle more than they are able to - no matter who the patient is. When that day comes and it becomes so difficult to live in any sense of normal, we must, must place the patient somewhere for safety and peace. There is no other way lest the caretakers are willing to be destroyed.
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rovana May 2019
The problem often seems to be how to force the decision.  It would be very helpful to have discussion on ways and means.
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If you can help out financially, if that is a concern, get her respite care on a regular basis each week so that she has breaks. Any aid she can get, where someone else takes over with the daily tasks she has been doing. She needs to be able to step away often to avoid burnout. At some point the decision to go to assisted living needs to be out of dad's hands.
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I hope this is taken in the spirit I am posting it. There is caregiving Risk Factor for Mortality and it requires more research for people over 65; more and more are recommending doctors’ checkups for caregivers to assess stress related illnesses. The link will get you to the study; I was able to download it by clicking the Download PDF multiple times.

The Results paragraph and Conclusions is of real concern. I recommend your sister get a Caregiver checkup; it might make your options more clearly defined.

Peace.

jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/192209
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NannaJ May 2019
My 93 year old mum has lived with me for 2 and a half years. Whilst she is thriving I am not and I fear I will die before her, therefore having no opportunity to have an enjoyable retirement. I hate every minute of it and it's affected my mental health badly. I have had counselling but it's not a solution and is not regular. I am so cross that I have let it happen!!!
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Dad is a prime candidate for Medicaid Planning. Meet with a local elder law attorney to discuss options. Medicaid long term care services will pay for a certain number of hours of home care, which will give your sister the break she so desperately needs.
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Time for you ALL To Talk Turkey to Sad Dad....He has to Go NOW into a Facility, No Bones about it!!!!
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nymima May 2019
I agree! I understand what she is feeling and her feelings must be considered at once! Time for Dad to move into a NH. He will acclimate and your dear sister will have her life back! I am in the same boat. Mom just went into hospice care and I am much relieved, but one month ago, I was where your sister was mentally, emotionally and physically. My whole retirement years have been spent being a caretaker! Almost a full decade! Not fair and not right.
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The assisted living and long term care of today are not the nursing homes that our parents had to put their own parents in. You and your sister need to encourage your father to be a part of the assisted living selection process. Is there a place where he already knows someone who lives there? Many of these places have events in which prospective residents are welcome to participate before they sign on the dotted line. Can you and your sister attend some of these with your father? Since your father is still mentally sharp, he stands an excellent chance of acclimating. You need to ensure he will not be "dumped and abandoned". Make sure he knows you will always be there for him and then make sure you are. Make sure you are as familiar with the community as you are with your own. Get to know the other residents and their families so you can troubleshoot any problems.
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There are 2 logical & reasonable choices:

1.) Put him in a nursing home

2.) Hire someone to come in & take care of him 24/7 so your sister can have a life of her own again. Don't keep expecting her to give up all her freedom to take care of him - you certainly aren't.

Your sister is sending out serious HELP ME messages that shouldn't go unheeded because something serious will (not maybe) happen.

1,) What would you do if she has a mental breakdown & can't take care of your father?

2.) What would you do if she were to die - & that's not unlikely with all the stress she's going through?

You really need to step up to the plate.
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Too late now, but when the situation is "he said he didn't want to go," it's time for the family to take a breath, be objective, and lovingly address their parent's feelings, but plan for their reality.

A person who cannot manage the activities of daily living – bathing, dressing, preparing and eating meals, managing meds – cannot safely live alone. That's just a fact.

Your sister is sacrificing her physical and mental health and happiness in service of your father's irrational desires and unsubstantiated fears. She simply needs to say, lovingly, "Dad, I can no longer take care of you. We have chosen a community where you can get the care you need." When he objects, repeat. He may have a tantrum and say some very ugly things. Imagine you're the parent of an angry toddler and, with love, just stand your ground. He is NOT the best judge of what's best for him.

Help him through his emotions, but stop letting him run the show. He can't.

Worry about your sister. She's 68. Caring for him could literally kill her (and I'm not just talking about her suicidal ideation, which shouldn't be ignored). I've seen many instances where the caregiving spouse or adult child died first. And guess where the surviving, belligerent person went then...into AL, where they happily chugged along oblivious to the damage they did.

I'm sorry if I sound mad. This is a hot button for me. Not many families can afford AL. They are lucky to have the option of AL and still they fall victim to mom or dad's anxiety.

Best of luck to you. Hang tough. Protect your sister.
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Lostinva May 2019
Beautifully said!!! Same situation here, thanks for the encouragement!!
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This sounds almost exactly what I was going through a few years ago but with my mother. I have no siblings so the responsibility to care for her was mine. I finally had to bring her to live with us and she was here about 3 1/2 years. I was having health issues myself. She was evaluated for assisted living but it was decided she needed more help with meds, etc. and did not qualify. My husband and I checked out a couple of facilities but I did not like the caregiver to patient ratio. It was my eye doctor that gave me the name of a woman that had helped them find a place for his mom (they were in the same position). I contacted her and she told me about the smaller care homes, usually no more then 6-8 people and set up in residential homes. They should be licensed and monitored by the State. We checked out a few and this looked like a much better situation. Wanted her in one but there were no openings so we put our name on the waiting list. Another one we had seen had an opening. We had discussed this with my mother and took her to see these places. We did place her in this home, which was only about 10 mins away from us. I could easily run over any time to visit her and often went over and had lunch with her. We would pick her up at least once a week and take her out for dinner and an ice cream. This might be something you can look into. I hope you can work things out. I fully understand what your sister is going through esp when she has her own heakth issues.
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RobinA59 May 2019
As an only child, I can totally relate to what you went thru - I felt so lost when the crisis came and totally unprepared. But I was lucky to have a supportive husband (to a point) and son. Bless you!
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Could you and your wife give your sister periodic breaks, for a weekend now and then?
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Invisible May 2019
Yes, that is a good place to start.
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