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My borther and I live with our dad. He's 87. My bro & I take dad to the doc, store, wherever he needs to go. But, we either buy what he needs or let him pay himself for his things. He has acquired quite a lot of debt in the past 2 years and we can't figure where his $$ goes except that our younger sister comes over before the 1'st every month to get our dad to pay her rent. During the month, she will show up once or twice a week to get him to go buy her groceries, toiletries, etc. She is 53 & lives in a nice 2 bedroom/2 bathroom apartment alone. She has taken care of dad for only 2 over-night trips to her place this entire year of 5 1/2 months, because he wanted her to do his hair. Dad has nothing to show for his debt. Nothing. He is on crutches & almost lost his big toe. H He was in the hospital for a week & we got a little break in his care. But, our sis would go visit him & sway nothing to my bro or I. I think she only visited there to get money. We have informed our oldest bro in Cali. several times, as he has POA & Medical POA. Meanwhile, when we take dad to the doc & he has to pay for something, He goes there in old torn clothes & shoes & refuses to buy new one because he say s he can't afford them. He makes, like $4500 a month! He owns his house. He was broke by the 8'th this month and using his credit card already. I was shocked because he also got his income tax refund and had picked out a bed we were supposed to go pick up this week. WHERE IS IT GOING & FOR WHAT??? What to do ???(He tells people he's broke "because he spends it all on his kids."--Not true. Only the one).????????? blou

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Yep! If draing parent so parent is unable to pay bills this is Elder abuse. Also, as said keep track of your household contribution expenses even as livein caregiver since it is not your home it is his. Longterm care would allow aprox 16 hrs wk for home health aid companion on one to one @10.00 hr if his finances were eligile for assistance. Same could go for dr visits assistance is needed to go to at same companion rate to family member caregiver providing companion caregiver assistance transport to Dr or ADLs conciere ie personal shopper companion etc... have log document when where and mileage. If you are caring for parent This is your proof you are not mooch too. Ask other sibling to pitch in on any expenses you cover for parent because pare.t doesn't have enough money to cover expenses.
Monthly put away money in acct. For automatic payment of RE Taxes. If it comes to you ha ing to pay out of your pocket for RE Taxes pay for taxes in your name not parents. Won't tell you why, just to do it. Keep track of all money you have out of pocket for parent. Establish as adult child fair mkt. value what should be your rent contribution to household and what is your contribution amt to household and keep receipts showing why any diffferance befor trying to address sibling who has parent paying the way. Sibling may consider your getting a free ride and figger she'd get help paying her housing bills too.?
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Why are you living with your dad?
Is he not able to manage his own affairs or funds? If he cannot do this without your assistance, then it is clear that his competence is an issue and that you will need assistance from a doctor to challenge competency and pursue guardianship on his behalf. Beware of attempting self help without an attorney to interfere with his deposits or credit cards. That makes YOU guilty of the same things you are accusing your sister of. Fraud and deceptive practices may make YOU look like an exploiter, too!
If you really want to help, do it the right way. You can contact Social Security and inform them there may be a question of ability. It could allow his benefits to be held until a representative payee determination is made. Being sneaky and getting into legal trouble could lead to YOU being INELIGIBLE to be a Rep Payee or assist your dad! Ignore advice that asks YOU to do sneaky dishonest stuff.
And have that hard conversation with your sister. Tell her that she needs to pay her own bills or expect to have to sign a repayment agreement, or be sued to recover these funds inapropriately "gifted" to her, repeatedly. Make sure you account for your costs of providing supervision and assistance to your dad.
We had to give up our home to watch over my mother in law and get rid of a hanger on abusive "boyfriend" who was using alcohol, lack of food, and elaborate stories about "being rich" to get to her retirement funds to pay HIS BILLS. NO, that guy was not paying rent, and put her in a financial position that she could not pay her taxes on her home, pay her utilities, renew her car registration, or even buy food. She was sick because she was DETOXING FROM ALCOHOL ADDICTION!
We stepped in and spent $1000s getting rid of this guy out of her life!

I am hoping your sister isn't anything like this. Just remember, you must come with clean hands to help best.
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I had a similar situation happening, but my mother lives with me and I have POA. She also has dementia and my brother kept coming over to mooch off her but he does nothing to help with her caregiving whatsoever. When I finally caught on I told him he was cut off, took away my Mom's checkbook, ATM card and told him to get the hell off the property. Mom is not rich and I am trying to stretch her money for as long as she is here, not have my adult child brother whom is a worthless drain on society, has been on disability forever for a shoulder injury he inflicted on himself. What kind of child takes their Mom out on Mother's Day for lunch and has her foot the bill for him, his wife, their child and the wife's parents?!?!?!? Honestly!!!! I had to give him the Heave, Ho!!!!!
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If sister is extorting money from him causing selfcare neglect this is cause of elder abuse by taking advantage of father. POA needs to become SS payee. SS does not recognize POA. Someone needs to become DCF payee to apply for and handle for medical benefits; this would be the person who would be the represenative medical advocate for him.
He gets to much money for medicaid.
If he goes around with you in unkept in rags. Question of abuse burden may rest on you as livein caregivers to prove where his funds are going.
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ThereIsNoTry ,
thats a great response .
battling for guardianship is a sure way to make some attorney and judge more wealthy and could result in a public guardian being appointed . ( more split with the attorney and judge ) ..
my sis went nuts when mom was put on hospice and was hoping for mom to put her in a house closer to moms house . what a misguided joke !! .
i just talked to mom and told her how defenseless she was against the parasitic loser and mom agreed . we added myself to the checking account and made a big show of me holding the check book . my mom had her checkbook also and her debit card but she played the game perfectly with me . the sis and niece had to be compensated by me for every week of their help . with that level of scrutiny they didnt dare try to milk mom out of additional cash .
some family members become necessary but they just come at a hell of a price . when i could no longer go to work i " required " a 15 dollar bag of tobacco every 60 days . my sis and niece could spend that much sitting at a stop light.
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Do you realize how much money it costs- maybe more in some states han others - to pursue guardianship? Use common sense and a little blackmail on your Dad. True if you live there you should b paid, this will help him with the spend down. You need to eat in order to care for him, so you deserve to be paid, minimal no legal docs or is there? There are rules for paying people for assistance I think. I do believe that you can set up his bank accounts as a joint account between him and his POA, then you get the household bills to be paid automaotically by the cc company or the bank, and have a cc for groceries and gas. Only. He must be taking out cash if he's running out of money. I would limit access to the bank account by making it a joint account. Don't subject him to incompetency tests.
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I am financial POA for my 97 year old mother. I see everything my sister spends on her. I see the ss deposit, the pension deposit, co-pays, toiletries, etc.She doesn't charge for rent or food. Your brother in California knows where the money is going. He either doesn't care, or thinks it is fair that your sister gets rental help. It would not be out of line for him to provide you with a list of her expenses. If it is the sister's rental that is running up the credit cards, then you need to tell your sister your Dad is going into debt to help her, and that she needs to cancel her apartment and move in with the two of you.
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How would you know if the brother in California is spending dad's money, as well? You need to pursue gardianship immediately or move out, get your own place, and let the chips fall where they may.
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Fair warning: My uncle used to do this when my grandmother was in the early stages of Alzheimer's. By the time my Aunt got her ducks in a row and got guardianship, all my grandmother's savings had been depleted. She did not have any credit cards, but my uncle would convince her to give him signed checks so he could fill in the amounts later and basically wipe out her accounts. It took a while to figure out what was happening because my grandmother was partially unable to remember and partially covering for my uncle. She thought she was being a good mother, but basically he was robbing her blind. My advice would be to pursue guardianship at the earliest and if your father is still legally competent, try to work with CA brother to get the credit cards taken away at least, so that your dad does not end up further and further in debt.
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First thing is sit down with your dad and have a talk. Explain that he should be able to pay his bills and not be broke all the time. Try to broach is as you want to help him see where his money is going then see if he will give you shared control of his funds so that you an pay his bills and make sure everything gets paid and he is able to buy what he needs. Then if he chooses to give money to the sibling, you can tell him what is available and that is all he has to give. Seems strange that you and your sibling are doing everything for your day and the one in Cali who is not around has POA? How did that happen?
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First, are you and your brother making any contribution to living expenses? If not, you might consider getting a caregiver agreement right away, so that dad's providing you a place to live isn't considered a gift-in-kind for Medicaid purposes! Talk with your brother about this and make appt with dad's doctor and discuss the matter. He may document that dad's no longer capable of managing his finances. Don't get devious about it...that in itself IS illegal (pretending you're your dad, saying you lost his CC's and intercepting his new ones would be a FEDERAL OFFENSE!) If you get documentation of his financial incompetency, your brother with POA will be able to control his accounts and credit cards, as the POA gives him permission to do so---just make sure it's the right kind of POA, a DURABLE POA. You can't blame your sister if your dad does it willingly....she is in the habit of expecting it as your father has been willingly providing her at his own discretion. So at least do her the courtesy of letting her know about the medicaid rules and why this behavior must be stopped to give her a chance to get a job or apply for whatever other benefit she may be entitled to before she's completely cut off...say 2-4 months' notice. Better to treat her respectfully if you wish the same from her. You and your brother aren't having to pay rent, either, so it doesn't seem completely unfair...just saying. With a caregiver agreement, though, he can document where the money goes, your sister may even want to be included with scheduled times that she can take over, if it means her monetary compensation depends on it! Really, it's such a shame that Dad has debt at all with that kind of income...but if you have that agreement, he can pay you legally without penalty and at least you and your bro could be putting some money aside so you'd have something to show for all those years of taking care of him. Best of luck...but good luck comes from making good decisions even if they are sometimes hard!
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Regarding new clothing/shoes ---- Medicare gives free through a doctor's prescription a new pair of shoes a year. AND many choices to choose from. Hubby has two pairs already. One from 2015 and other from 2016. AND they are stylish and substantial shoes.
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Well as everyone has said if your Dad is competent then he can do as he pleases. HOWEVER one of the main facets of competency is does he understand the consequences of his actions. If he understands that he wont get Medicaid until the penalty subsides then whether you like or not he can do as he flaming well pleases which is, in these circumstances as you have described them, unreasonable but competency and reasonable are not one and the same sadly. If he doesn't understand this then he is, to all intents and purposes incompetent to manage his financial affairs and Brother should take over.

If, however, your brother has invoked his POA and DOES act for your father then one thing you can do is to tell your brother he needs to tell the bank that his father is deemed incompetent to manage his financial affairs. You may need a doctor's written diagnosis to do this - it depends on the bank. Once the bank has that information then he can also ask (although the banks should enact it straight away anyway) to cancel all his cards and chequebooks.

At this point I would also ask the brother to set up a separate bank account for his father and have the fathers current bank do two things transfer all funds to that account and continue to do that on a regular basis leaving a mere $50 perhaps in the account. I would also ask them to only consult with brother.

NOW next point if you and your brother are living there I am assuming you live rent free, not sure about board. I would expect if you are actually giving care to your father to expect to live there rent free and board free depending on the level of care you are giving. If however you are both working then the level of care will be lower and you should contribute to the food bills (but that is only MY opinion so feel free to ignore that)

Now on to the sister. If your father is incompetent then what she is doing (providing she knows he is incompetent although in the UK ignorance of the fact is no excuse) is financial abuse of a vulnerable adult. If you know about it - and you do - and do nothing then you too would be guilty of being complicit because you haven't reported it.

To rectify this, I would write a letter and make sure you have proof of her receipt of it explaining that your father is now deemed incompetent in terms of financial affairs so all money spent must be accounted for by receipts that , could if required, demonstrate TO THE COURTS that the money has been spent IN HIS BEST INTERESTS

The elder justice and prosecution department of the US department of Justice lays down advice for you and I have copied it below:
Financial exploitation crosses racial, ethnic, and economic lines. One of the worst abuses of an older person occurs when a trusted person, family member, caregiver, professional or smooth talker, steals an elder’s money or property, something also referred to as financial exploitation. This money or property is rarely returned, and the loss puts an elderly victim’s financial stability and peace of mind at risk.

Sometimes family members, caregivers, bank employees and financial advisers see an elderly person being financially exploited but don’t know what to do. For example, the bank teller wonders why Mrs. Smith, an older widow, is withdrawing money more often than usual; or why Mr. Jones’ new girlfriend always accompanies him to the bank; or why Mrs. Brown’s eldest daughter, who has power of attorney, wants to transfer her mother’s bank accounts to her name. If these elderly adults are being financially exploited, how can they be helped?

Here are three easy steps to reporting financial exploitation. Use our map to find your local resources.

Call Adult Protective Services.
Call the local police and the FBI. Don’t worry about the amount of money or property involved.
Call your Attorney General’s Office.

I find it appalling that she behaves in this way but let the process start and she will stop I am sure - .....or of course face prosecution - good on you for catching it so early
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Get the brother with the POA & MPOA to change bank accounts so he will no longer have access to funds. Then after that is done, inform the other sibling she can no longer have access to his funds because he doesn't know what he is doing. Threaten her with legal action.
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It isn't right your sister expects your father to pay all her living expenses. He is old and sick, and he is going to need that money, and is she going to help him? I doubt it.That is his money, she has no right to ask for it. Unfortunately, all you can do is try to get him to give you POA. If he won't, you will have to find him incompetent. It won't be easy, either way.
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We are only hearing one side of this story. Since you and your brother live with your father, do you pay rent? Do you pay your share of the utilities? Who pays for food, toiletries, etc at your father's house? Do you both have jobs? Are you retired?Your dad is correct. He is spending all of his money on his kids. But he is not asking for relief. I guess he is proud to be able to provide for you all as long as he is able.
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The Medicaid issue is a really big thing. You had better check on the competency issue first. If your dad has advance directives written check there first about the competency issue. My mother had it stipulated that if 2 doctors were to write letters stating that she was incompetent then I was to become her POA. I did that a couple of months before I had to move he into assisted living. I had to go to SS and file to become her "payee" so as to oversee her monthly SS direct deposit and I had to file paperwork with the VA to become he fiduciary for VA payments. Both SS and VA require yearly financial statements to be filed stating that her money was being spent on her.
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You need to get devious in short order. You did not say how many credit cards your father had, but I suggest that you pretend that your father has lost all his credit cards by calling (if you can imitate your father) to ask them for a replacment card. You can do this in writing. Then as the new cards arrive in the USPS, collect them and put them in a very safe place, one your sister would not discover. You also could find a way so he "loses" his wallet and then tell the credit card company that you don't want replacements except for one or two cards. You can lower the daily allowable limit on his debit card, so he can or your sister can withdraw less from an ATM or charge less.
Celeste wrote about automatic deposit of his SS account into a new account with/POA brother is an excellent one. Do it immediately because it will take a couple month's to redirect the deposit to the new account.
If your father has access to a checking account, then his checks should be "lost" too. Hide them in a place when your sister would never look.
You probably can't cut your sister off directly. So discuss direct payment of her rent with your mother until someone obtains a guardianship.
You and your brothers need to get in charge of his money asap as quickly as possible.
As for new clothes, buy identical or nearly identical ones. Then tell your father that your washer destroy his shirts/pants and show him his new ones. Or you could wash his nearly identical clothes several times and then replace his old stuff with the new clothes. He could "lose"one of his shoes, so a trip to the shoe store or use Zappos to try on new shoes at home. Then return the extra pairs to Zappos or other online store.
Your brothers and you must get your act together, so you all act like each other when it comes to your father's money. Until you have the right legal documents, all of you must act and say consistent things to your sister. Cutting her off or reducing access to your father's funds will not be easy, but only you and brothers can do it.
Celeste's
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what prevents you and your brothers to talking w/your sister first and reason w/her by trying to put limits on her-sounds like she won't stop asking on her own accords. if you can't reason w/her then limit dad by auto deposit of his SS check into new acct w/POA w/brother.
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Not illegal but pretty creepy of your sister.
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Unless he is incompetent you are not going to be able to get guardianship and you have no legal means of stopping him from spending his money as he chooses.

But I hope that you, as his caregivers, and the CA brother as his POA, can reason with him or persuade him, or somehow manage to arrange things so this does not continue. guestshopadmin is right that this will not only keep him broke now, but will prevent him from getting Medicaid help should he ever need that.

It is his money and his choice ... but it is also his consequences which he may not fully understand. Even if you have to "trick" him a bit, I hope you can protect him from his generous gestures.
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You and bro live with dad? Do you pay rent and your portions of groceries, utilities and other household expenses? Maybe it is dad's way of leveling the playing field trying to be fair to all his children. Is he competent? If not, Cali bro has plenty of work to do getting your Dad's affairs in order. If he is, it is Dad's money to do with as he sees fit.
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Pursue Guardianship ASAP, that is the only way to cut her off.
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It's not unlawful, but if your father ever needs to apply for Medicaid the payments made for and to your sister will probably incur a penalty that will prevent your Dad from getting the help he needs. Brother in California might pay attention if you bring that up.
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Has your father been deemed incompetent? This is the most important question. If he has not been deemed incompetent then POA is not active and he can spend his money on anything he wants, including indulging this one child.

Your profile says that your dad has alzheimers but it does not say if he has been ruled incompetent. This would be the main way to stop him from spending in this way. But for now, if hes competent then technically he could flush his money down the toilet if he show chooses (that's a little extreme but I think you understand my meaning. his money, his choice.)

Angel
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