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My husband, 77 with Lewy Body Dementia, was doing this and it progressed into outbursts so vitrious that they were triggering my PTSD. Using his son as a mediator I sat down with him and told him that I will no longer tolerate these outbursts and if he does it one more time he was going to a facility.
That conversation got some things out on the table. He was frustrated b/c he has lost his freedom to drive and feels trapped. I work on more outings and his he has kept his temper and those constant rude responses under control. My threat stands. If he flies into a temper one more time, he’s going to a facility.
We have to set healthy limits as caregivers. I cared for both parents and my brother simultaneously and my husband joined the list. I am not Wonder Woman.
Even with dementia, my husband has not forgotten to behave since I drew the line.
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trainer, I’m with harpcat - the visit to the lawyer for those documents is happening - what day and time shall we go, not If. If she has someone better than you she’s welcome to name them. I’d call the Dr’s office now regardless and ask questions and see how it goes. A while back, I typed up a paper that just said I’m her person and can talk to the doctor, told Mom to sign it, made copies and handed them out. Tell her it allows you simple things like making appointments as well. I’d hold onto her arm and walk into the Dr’s room with her at appointments. If she wants a ride, that’s how we do it.
Many discussions on here touch on whether we try to please them all the time, or avoid arguments, and you must be willing to rile her sometimes to get things accomplished. You want to be gentle and kind, of course! But none of us gets through the day without being teed off sometimes, she can take it.
I have a series of Oh acknowledgment noises that I make throughout Mom’s diatribes on things I don’t agree with or that make no sense and are inconsequential. Earlier on I was still trying to have two-way conversations but they're really one-way now. She isn’t ‘discussing’ she’s, like, staying in touch with the world by mouthing things. I always think of that movie - was it Forget Paris? - where Billy Chrystal’s dad had to read out loud every slogan and sign he saw.
Your mom *is* the odd one out in your home, that’s kind of unfortunate she feels ganged up on. Can you get her to anything, anyplace sometimes where there are other folks like her? Invite over any friends she has?
Book recommendations are always great, plus I see a counselor (I’m the only child and relative, too) and it’s very helpful.
Best to you! 💐
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My mom's Geriatric doctor says never argue with her. Ignore, change subject whatever you can do because your mom obviously loves the argument. Mine does also. I sometimes worry my eyes will disappear with all the eye-rolling I do. My mom says,"you think I'm stupid". I believe she has conversations in her head without my saying anything. As for the POA you need one. Talking to lawyers is a good idea. Does she have a will? A POA is part of that and when my mom was unconscious, it really came in handy. I am now her guardian. When my dad passes away, I would have had a fight on my hands; now the process will proceed without argument; oh she will be angry, but I'm in charge.
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debbye Aug 2018
Your comment about eye-rolling cracked me up. Eye-rolling is about the only thing I can do to express my frustration and I find it strangely satisfying. Better that than tearing out my hair (although I've done that a couple of times). People who don't deal with a person like this have no idea how hard it is to change habits of communication we've had all our lives so we can cope with their behavior.
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Oh sweetheart - I could have written that same message. Mom is struggling as she realizes she can’t remember things. It’s like she is on a merry go round, but can’t get off. We can get off - we can reason , but mom can’t. There are triggers that can make her worse. Sometimes the triggers can be so benign as mom not having anything to wear, someone on the roof fixing a shingle. Of course, mom has plenty to wear.

Right now mom lives in an independent living residence and I have home care with her approx. 10 hours a day. I live in a townhouse and couldn’t have her living with me.

Have you looked into home care?

I have now decided that mom needs to be in a assisted living/memory care facility. Can your mom afford that? If so, you need to start looking. It is a very hard process as there are many facilities out there. If you think mom may have an issue with that, look into respite care - where mom tries out living in a facility for a few weeks or so.

Also, a lot of these facilities have groups you can go to. These are so you can talk to others that are in the exact same boat you are. It’s so nice to realize you aren’t alone - AND the best part is that you don’t have to have your parent residing there to be in these groups.

Most importantly, you and your family MUST take care of yourselves. As you know, if you don’t take care of yourself, you can’t help others.

I’m here if you need to talk.
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I feel for you. More than many here, I become impatient with what people put up with in regards to these difficult elders.

My mother is always right, like your mother. If I'm feeling feisty, I will counter her. But often I just don't say anything. My mother has bad hearing, and it's exhausting having to repeat everything over and over.

BUT...my mother doesn't live with me (and never will). I can drive off and leave her to her shut-in life, and I am around her as little as possible (my role is her driver).

Your mother lives with you, so there is no escape. I am wondering if you have plans for when she becomes too much to handle? Are you willing to at some point provide transfer assistance, toileting help, changing diapers, getting up with her multiple times per night, etc? Would she qualify for Medicaid to she could be placed in a facility? Please don't tell us you have promised her to never put her in a facility!
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Everyone has given you good information. You could just make an appointment with an attorney, take her with you can have the attorney talk to her about the need for both DPOA and Medical POA. Choose the attorney gender she would be most receptive to. If she doesn’t acquiesce there, then I don’t know how you manage except to say to her "mom, if you don’t go ahead with this then I won’t be able to be there to take care of things for you. My hands will be tied".
you made a statement like "I’m notoriously bad about self care"...like Dr. Phil, I’d like to ask "how’s that working for you?" Not good I’m sure. You better get exceptionally good about self care because you are worth it and you need it to survive.
There is a thin book I’d like to recommend by a psychologist who counsels adult children of difficult parents. You can get it on amazon. Called "Loving hard to love parents" by Dr Paul Chafetz. It was very helpful to me. It helps you with responses and ways to cope with their behavior.
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You are in a tough place. We just went through something similar with my MIL. She doesn't live with us though.
I am grateful for that as she does get an attitude just like your mother.

I found there is no easy way to deal with it.

My MIL had designated her son as DPOA with her daughter as second. My husband, her son has had a stroke and has dementia, the daughter refuses to help so we had to get a third party Guardian appointed.

Could you get outside help with your mom? She probably wouldn't like it, my MIL didn't at first either.

Take care, it is a tough situation.

Getting your mom
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That is EXACTLY like my dad, who is 91. I really have to tip toe around him because I never know what innocent remark is going to set him off. And he really gets set off! Explosively. His main point of view is that he thinks I am assuming he is stupid when I asked for information for Medicaid for my mom so she could have aides or reminded him what he cannot spend money on because of Medicaid. And believe me he tried to color outside the lines! I had to watch his accounts like a hawk and warn people not to lend him money. He does not have dementia or any other cognitive disorder either. I have come to the point of asking myself, do I really need to say or do what I think I need to say or do? The answer many times is no. I just agree with him, whatever he says now even if it is wrong. Just agree, "Yes we need cat food. Thank you for reminding me."
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It is not HER, but the disease. Try validating her and see what happens. :-)
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You have many people trying to control one situation. Take a step back. Yes, she may be mean and angry, but it's truly not at you. She's angry at her situation. There are many books on the subject. One is the 36 Hour Day. It gives good insight to their day. Another one I'm reading right now is a very light read, called "Living with Alzheimer's and Other Dementias, 101 Stores of Caregiving, Coping and Compassion" .
My dad is suffering (we all are) from his progressive dementia. His short term memory is very limited. He's in Assisted Living. He was very combative with the staff. However, we now have Hospice Care in there 7 days a week for several hours. Those people are so amazing. It's just a few hours with the same person daily who is not family. It gives us all a break. Good luck and prayers....and take time for yourself.
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Has she been diagnosed with anything specific yet?
If, after you talk to her doctor----and DO talk to her doctor---the doc says he's done some basic Q&A testing with your mom and he thinks she's not suffering from dementia symptoms, then call her out on her behavior.
She may be depressed as she is recognizing that something isn't quite right. That's understandable. My In-laws ended up both being put on Zoloft at their gerontologist suggestion under the heading of "it will help with your feelings and memory issues". Folks of their generation think you're broken if you're depressed.
However, you and your family do not deserve to walk on eggshells every time she opens her mouth. Just as you said, it is affecting everyone. Can you see you and your husband living with this behavior until she passes away? It sounds like she's otherwise in very good health. For all your kindness, you are being repaid with hatred. She may be hating herself and not you, but it has to be worked out, one way or another.
Do NOT always agree (as you asked). It will end up eating you alive.
I am sorry you're going through this. It sounds like you and your family love one another very much and your Mom, too. It sounds like she's not herself, and you'll have to step in and get her some help.
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That's unfortunate that she is refusing to sign Healthcare POA and Durable POA. It will put you in a bad situation, when the time comes for your to make decisions and handle her affairs, because without those documents, you'll likely be hampered. I might consult with my own Elder Law attorney, NOT the one she is consulting with, but, a different one and get info on what you can expect when the time comes. You can also get some tips from around on this site, from others who have had to file for Guardianship.

I'd also explore what types of care that she might be entitled to. It's not for the children of the person to pay. They pay with their own income or assets, and if they don't have enough, they may qualify for state or federal assistance with the costs. There are normally, some forms of in home assistance too.
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I would say Dementia. Looking back with my Mom the signs were subtle. A head injury exasperated the Dementia. Your Mom may know something is quite not right and is not saying anything. At this point, justvagreevwith her. When she says you need dog food, say Ok will put it on my list. When she says its a nice day and its raining like cats abd dogs just say, yes it is. Call her doctor and ask him if he noticed anything. And explain what has been happening. In early stages a Dementia person is very good at covering up their problem. Its called "show timers". Note if things get worse around dinner time. This is called "sundowning". Some people on this forum say parent is good in the morning and start going down hill in the afternoon. Note if she tends to be confused when she first wakes up. Reasoning and processing what is being said are the first things to go and shortterm memory.
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UTI has more of a personality impact in seniors and less physical symptoms. Changes in attitudes are a symptom that a UTI could be present.

Just out of curiosity, could you try acknowledging her view point?

Mom: it seems cooler out today.

Niece: I think your right, I've been out with the dogs and I'm melting but I would be a puddle if it hadn't cooled down some.

She is loosing control of everything, she probably just wants to feel like she hasn't completely lost her mind.

Empathy goes a long way when dealing with the elderly, the young adults in your home need to have more for grandma.

Obviously you have been caring for your mom for a long time and you love her very much, so go get a vacation for you and hubby, come back rested and let her be right. As long as no one is in danger, what can it hurt? I bet she feels better after your vacation as well, to much of a good thing is just that, too much. But get that urine test first.

Some times when we are exhausted the little things get beyond our borders and we can't reason out how to deal with them. You really need a break from caregiving and time for you to get back in balance. It is so important that as a caregiver you give care to yourself, not always easy but always important.
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TrainerMom Aug 2018
Thanks for your reply. I want to be very clear, however, that our daughter, the only young adult in our home, is exceedingly kind and considerate and empathetic towards my mom (her grandma.) Actually, Molly will be a senior in college and is a music therapy major, planning to work in a hospice setting, so she's literally had undergraduate coursework on empathy for seniors. The level of abuse she takes from my mom, which she handles without so much as blink is really amazing. Sometimes she can't do anything right, and it's upsetting to her as she's very sensitive and kind-hearted.

For a long time we did try agreeing with her at every turn. Sometimes, it's just not possible-- such as when she insists that she puts ketchup in her chili recipe (she never, ever has, and I've her chili for 48 years) and she's standing there while I'm cooking, or when she insists that the next left is the way to her doctor's appointment, but the next left is a one-way street and her doctor's office is six miles ahead on the right. Is there a strategy that you recommend for those types of instances?

A vacation sounds heavenly, but it's just not in the cards right now, not with college tuition, and mom to care for. I'm notoriously bad at self-care. I need to do better.
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I might take a look at whatever there is at the doctor's office that provides you with access, to see if you can also speak with the doctor about her situation. Are you her designated Healthcare POA? If not, I wonder if she is competent to appoint someone at this point. It's very important, because if she were to decline.....it's quite important, as is a Durable Power of Attorney to handle financial matters.

Some of the things that you described with your mother made me curious. There are multiple causes of dementia, such as Alzheimers, strokes, Parkinsons,'s etc. But, there are some conditions that manifest mainly with personality changes and aphasia (loss of words). I'd explore it, but, you may need an expert, because a GP, might not be equipped to diagnose it. I'd ask them to rule out Lewy Body dementia. I'm not saying she has that, but, I'd research it and keep it in mind, if you get the chance to speak with her doctor. You might also rule out things like UTI, vitamin deficiency, infections, medication reaction, etc. All can cause a change in behavior and cognitive decline.

If it is dementia, the behavior progresses over time, but, there is no way to know how long one phase may lasts. I would investigate options for her care, since living in a miserable home is really not healthy. The stress will really take a toll on you and your family.
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TrainerMom Aug 2018
Thank you for the reply! I'll definitely look into those possibilities-- UTI (unlikely, but could someone have them with no symptoms?) vitamin deficiency (she takes a multivitamin, but I realize that doesn't mean her body is synthesizing and utilizing it efficiently) and especially Lewy Body dementia.

She keeps talking about going to an attorney and drawing up DPA and Health POA paperwork, but when I (gently) push the issue, she becomes obstinate. I'm her only living relative and we are quite close (she lives with us) so I can't imagine why she'd have a problem with it, and yet it's like she refuses to acknowledge that she needs to get this done, that she's not 65 anymore. Thanks again for your reply; I found this website not long ago and I've found so much great information here. As I said, I have no living relatives and am finding this difficult to say the least.
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If she has you named on the list of people she has given permission for her doctor to share her medical information with....then yes, you can talk to her doctor and more importantly, he can talk to you about her.

I would do that because it sounds like there may be a few symptoms of dementia going on.

My mother got very angry and self righteous in stages 4 and 5. She was a pistol and became argumentative and aggressive.

Have the doctor set up an appointment with a geriatric neurologist who can examine her and give her more lengthy tests.
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Not to my knowledge. She had her yearly physical a month ago with her GP; I didn't go in with her (sat in waiting room, as per her request) but the appointment lasted a LONG time. I began to worry because she was in there so long, but when she came out she was happy as a clam and said the doctor talked to her a lot about her nurse's training and her career, etc. I suspected that it was more of a cognitive evaluation than just a chatty visit, but I don't know for certain. I'm on her medical records as able to have info, but don't know how far is overstepping. That's also one of my questions-- can I talk to her doc about this? Just now, my daughter Molly texted me to say that she kept telling her that "Trump was happy in her (Molly's) room." Molly was so confused; didn't know WHAT she meant. The dog, Kayak, was in her room. So Molly said, "You mean Kayak?" MOm: YES! That's what I SAID! (it wasn't, and Molly was genuinely confused. Mom is NOT a Trump fan, so that made it more bizarre.

Am I entitled to talk to her doc?
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BarbBrooklyn Aug 2018
If your mom has signed a HIPAA release, then you are able to get information from her doctor. Even without it, you are able to give information to her doctor .

It sounds as though a convo with her Pcp is called for, I'd send the doctor a written list of the symptoms you are observing and ask her/his advice about how to proceed.

I'd get her in to see a geriatric psychiatrist in any event. Her irritability sounds like it's having an impact on everyone and needs to be addressed.
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So, has she been evaluated for cognitive function, dementia, anxiety?

Any and all of those could be causing the symptoms you describe. Meds might help.
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