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12wondering, I don't think you're whining at all - the commitment you've undertaken is a very substantial one, and in the context of the logistics you've described… you do absolutely *have* to do this, do you?

R being the caregiver who has to have back surgery, and seeing as you are offering very substantial help, and given that he is being - well, really, extraordinarily obstructive in the circumstances…

You're very patient to be tolerating these terms that he's putting in your way, that's all. Speaking for myself, faced with that attitude, I'm afraid I'd be suggesting he make his own arrangements if he didn't like the ones I had to offer. I admire your forbearance.
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Update for Gardenartist or anyone else who is following this thread. Talked to ins. agent & YES, we & Aunt are covered with our homeowners ins. Also anyone else who would be helping me with her care. No workman's comp. but liability & medical.

Not going to try for the DPOA right now, not even a temporary one as R is adament against it.. even so far as not letting me get Aunt & forgoing his surgery if I were to 'push" it . So for now just the AD & a simple contract between R & myself.

Yes I realize that this could be a bit risky but the alternative is to lose contact with my Aunt again & I do not think there is another 3 or more years to find her again. Especially since R will not/does not let us know when something is wrong.

Trying to find a way to word the Gen Contract so that R does not take offence & gets Aunt all worked up about "See, I told you she doesn't really care for you, just want to get her hands on your finances."

Life is such a tight rope... The only time you are free of all this is as a small child. It goes in stages: first young adult. Than young wife & Mother of young children. Than teenage children. Than children as young adults with problems & children of their own who still come to you for help, advice, & assistance. Than caring for your adult parents, or relatives, & sometimes spouses, also sometimes adult children. Finally you yourself may slip away from reasoning & need help yourself & just who is there?

Was always told I was put on this earth to help others but sometimes it just gets to be too much. I know that my problems are as nothing compared to those of you who deal with so much more. Sorry for my momentary self pity . As I was told years ago "It is time to get over it & get on with what needs to be done."

If I have forgotten anything please advise. Time is getting short. 4th of July weekend to handle first for husband, his business, & various problems with/ related to 3 daughters. Than logistics of going to get Aunt & transport her back to my house from the state she currently is in. Trying to make sure that everything is in place before I leave on the 9th of July. Will be back here on the 10th. One day to go get her, spend the night & return the next day. I will not be allowed to get her things packed into my car the evening I arrive there, not allowed to even come to the residence until the morning of the day we leave. R fought with me about this small arrangement as he didn't even want me to come to the house but do a handoff & transfer out in the middle of nowhere by the side of the road. Finally convinced him that I just could not drive 8+ hrs., do a trade off, & return all in the same day. This was his suggestion when he couldn't drive more than 3-4 hrs. total as his health & physical condition would not permit it. I must stop now, I am beginning to sound too whiny to myself.
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Besides, Countrymouse; the smell from even an hour in my Mother's room from the commode was awful!

As stated any monies to care for my Aunt are for her food, necessities, things like hiring someone to come in a couple times a week to help me bath her, shampoo hair, & trim toe nails, etc. not pay. She will have to have separate foods as she is a vegetarian.
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Was able to find a Health Care Advanced Directive & a General Contract forms today. The AD will be for my Aunt & to cover me from any possible problems from APS in the event that something should happen & my Aunt does not want any medical attention. I do not foresee this happening but wish to be and need to be prepared for the possibility.

The General Contract will be between myself & R the current "caregiver" so that I cannot be accused of taking my Aunt without permission, & to stipulate that the $'s will be for her food & necessities. Also how much & when & where to be sent. Yes, I am already keeping a ledger of expenses for her coming stay with me.
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Countrymouse: a bedside commode would be no different to what I have to do than getting her (Aunt)_ the 5 steps to the bathroom, as I would still have to get up and come downstairs from my bedroom to her bedroom to help her out of bed, onto pot, wipe her & clean her, than help her back to bed. Plus than having to empty & clean commode. Rinse & clean washcloths used to clean her, and clean bathroom sink. Double work. But thanks for the thought. My Mother had one in her room (hardwood floors not carpeted so when she tipped it over or when it leaked it was easier to clean up).
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Can you hire or borrow a commode?

I know the idea of emptying/cleaning doesn't exactly bring joy to the heart, and it can feel socially awkward for the user too; but it didn't take my (very private) mother more than a day or two to realise that having the commode by her bed was a lot better than slogging to the bathroom in the middle of the night. It also solves the permanent installation problem, and you won't have to worry about its being too low down for her, or about grab rails - all included. Ours is on indefinite loan from social services/OT; but I don't think they're expensive to buy, either.
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GA, exactly... that is why I am hoping to get an Advanced Directive. I think that I may be able to explain it to my Aunt in a way so that she might be open to it. She knows that I already have a DNR for myself & have had it in place for 5 yrs. now. In light of this I am hoping that she will see the reason in doing an AD

Also need to try and locate a CS practitioner so that there is some form of health oversite. Will talk to C (woman whose horses I pasture) to see if she can help me with this. Tried contacting the CS church here but they have discontinued their phone #. C said it is a very small meeting only about 10 or so regular members.

I will keep you apprised of things as they transpire. Please keep me in your thoughts & know that any ideas or thoughts that you have are greatly appreciated.
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Wondering, thanks again for the explanation. I do see your points about wanting to focus on the upcoming caregiving and leave the past as history. Makes sense; there's a limit to what can be done under the circumstances.

Something else occurred to me that that arises from your aunt's position toward doctors. If in your opinion she needed emergency care, would she accept it? It occurred to me, especially R's history, that APS could become involved if your aunt refused to accept care and you were blamed for any repercussions since she's in your care.

I don't want to frighten you, but as your husband advises, you need to protect yourself.
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All good points.... that being said, Aunt had to grant permission for all of this to transpire. I cannot remand her decisions. This could be her way of making sure that R received a share of Uncles gifts. As I stated earlier, Aunt once she was the recipient of the trust could than do as she saw fit with monies generated from trust. Just cannot change the trust itself. (That would mean her house, etc.) I do object to the disposing of all of her things. But again I think she gave some sort of approval. Their home was not in the trust but was transferred to her upon his death by title of ownership with sole right of survivorship. Uncle locked it up pretty tight as Uncles son & lawyers could not take any of it from her. Also no probate but direct transfer.

Do I feel that R is abusing his role as seragete (sp.) son, yes, but Aunt has been excepting of what he has done. I just hope to be able to give my Aunt some joy & comfort. But realize that I also have to protect myself from reprisals.

Will try to get Aunt to agree to an Advanced Directive so that in the event that something were to happen there would be something in place. Also some form of temp. POA. Think that will be the hard one. Checking with our ins agent tomorrow to make sure that there is coverage in the event of an accident here, as she does not have any ins. Including no Medicare because it was/is waved on religious exemption. Trying to find out if a Christian Scientist practioner is exceptable to certify conditions for handicap plackard since Aunt will under NO SERCUMSTANCES go to a medical DR.

Lots to work through. Don't know about any accountings but do know that Aunt still must pay quarterly estimated taxes on monies generated from trust. She was in contact with her legal rep on this, don't know about now, but feel that this is still the case.

I am on a very fine ledge here and it would be my preference to not have to get into any legal areas but because of the nature of things I must protect myself. No I am NOT expecting anything out of this, nor am I looking to get any kind of remuneration. Just want to do what is best for my Aunt.

My thoughts on all this would be to just take the initial 3 mos. with my Aunt & if things were to develop into long term than deal with POA ,etc. than. However, as stated here & by husband I need to have some form of protection now. I hate this! I will for sure try to get an AD & if possible at the very least a signed agreement from R as to the stipulations of this transfer of care.

I do not want my Aunt or anyone else to feel uncomfortable about this or think that there are any other reasons behind this, than the shear love of, & care for her. Irregardles of what others may have as intent.
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Usually homes are in the trust, and if he used the funds to fix up a MIL house for her, I would assume that increased the value of his property, which he now intends to sell. I would expect a full accounting of what the sale of her house was, how much went into remodeling the MIL house, an appraisal of his place before and after the remodel, so she can get the difference put back into the trust. Consult an attorney.
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Equillot made a point I completely missed. I did feel that R was being controlling and dictatorial, especially in selling your aun't house. It could also be that he was in fact abusing his role.

Generally trusts provide for annual accountings. Has R been providing these to your aunt?
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So basically the caregiver has been stealing the assets of the trust? Get your aunt to an attorney.
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Thank you GA
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Glad, thanks for the info. I think I'll raise the issue when we next see our elder law attorney on other issues. Will let you know if I learn anything different.
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Oh, and laws are changing the first of the year on live in help. But I have not been able to find the proposed legislation. But it may increase the cost of live-in help extremely expensive.
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GA, I was told that IRS would have issues with a live-in being an independant contractor. So, I am a household employee and FICA is paid by the trust, taxes deducted, and actually the benefit of two weeks vacation, and respite time every weekend. You should definitely check with an accountant or lawyer on how to best manage this. And if you learn anything different let me know.
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@ Garden Artist & gladimhere: Ok here goes. The current caregiver is also the person who has control of my Aunts finances ( trust, SS, CD's, all assets).This person was a family friend of my Uncle & his son from the time of 8 or 9. Raised like a son, but NOT. HE is in his 70's ( not sure if it is 72 or 76). Aunt had no children of her own but helped raise me . She is and always was more of a Mother to me than my actual mother who was her youngest and only sister.

Before his death, my Uncle set up a trust to take care of my Aunt, his wife. All went to her as everything was in both names with sole right of survivorship. His son tried to break the trust but was not able to do so, so after many years, just gave up. (He is also in his 70's)

Unless my Aunt has changed the trust since she was/is the inheritor, the further stipulations are as follows: Secondary is Uncles son unless I were to outlive him than I am secondary. But only if both my Aunt & I were to outlive him.

Now here is the sticky part. When the other person found out the conditions of the trust he was livid because my Uncle had left things to his son, or possible me and left him completely out. This person stopped talking to my Aunt for a very long time. Next thing I know she has disappeared. Took me close to 3 yrs to find her. No contact.

R was not happy when I did locate her & get in touch. During this time she was close to death at least once & we were never informed. As an aside; yes she had a phone, but it was set up so that she could only hit the emergency button for 911, or call the main house (caregivers) Unable to call out to anything else, not even 800 #'s. However, she could receive calls so after finding her we were able to at least call her once in awhile.

The $ 600. a month is solely for her care (groceries, necessaries, incidentals, & any assistance that I may need for her care) I am to keep detailed records of expendatures and at the end of this 3 mo "visit" return any monies not used explicitaly for her care. I do not have a problem with this as I would not expect to benefit from her care & keeping. Since this money is not for me there should be no need for payment of taxes, 1099, FICA, etc. The money will not be coming directly from my Aunt but instead from R (her caregiver) which leads me to believe that her funds are handled by him. I DO NOT want her funds. That is her money, not mine.

During the time that I could not locate my Aunt this person had her home sold. I think that the proceeds of the sale of her longtime home were given to R to recompence him for fixing up a small MIL house (without kitchen) for her use on his property behind his house.

Had assumed (always a bad idea) that some of her personal things & furniture were transferred to new residence. Just found out this is not the case. Everything was either sold or given away by R. The only things that went with her were a few bags of clothing. That is how fast the swoop was.

Yes there is some aspect of being taken advantage of, but this is my Aunt & only living relative left from my family.
There will be NO access to any of her funds.. no debit, nothing. Just what is sent for her care. And yes I do understand that there is no assurance that the monies will be sent.

It is pretty much understood & agreed on that if she were to go to a NH or AL, even one run by the church, that she would lose any quality of life & possibly shorten that life. So that is not an option.

I will be talking to Ins agent to make sure that Aunt would be covered at my home in case of an accident. I do have to talk to her about an advanced directive because she is a Christian Scientist and does not believe in ANY materia medica of any sort. This is not new as she has felt this way since her 20's. Uncle was also, & she nursed him at home for 14 yrs before he passed. I need to know in writing what her whishes are & so I am not held as neglagent in her care.

Tried to see if I could get a handicap plackard for my car when I have to take her anywere. Not going to happen because a DR. must sign off on the need & she refuses to see, or even talk to one. Won't be much going about anyway except for transport from current residence to mine & back again if that is the case.

Not sure about her going back as I was informed that R is planning on selling his place, and Aunts MIL house because he cannot take care of it anymore. So, where would she be going back to?

I agree that her current caregiver should have all these matters attended to and not at my expense but am reasonably sure that he will not and will complain strenuously. He will not want to give up a smidgen of control until he has to.

My main concern is for my Aunt & her care. But I must also watch out for myself.

I so appreciate all the helpful suggestions given & will look into doing what I can about protections for myself & Aunt. I will keep you posted as to the outcome of this "adventure" & be looking for further posts from you.
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Glad, do you mean that IRS would NOT consider this arrangement to be an independent contractor situation, i.e., that a live-in caregiver wouldn't be considered an independent contractor but rather an employee? If the latter, then were you held responsible for paying FICA, etc.,? I'm not prying, just trying to sort out the ramifications of these issues.

I'm also concerned because I had considered getting someone to help with my father, but stalled on taking action because of liability and tax issues. I'd still like to get some help for him (and me!), but I want to make sure I've got all the bases covered, with the tax and liability issues being as important as the services provided.

If he falls a third time, just nursing home and home PT might not be enough, and I know he's adamant about not wanting to leave his home for any other permanent living situation.


12Wondering, given Glad's observation that taxes would reduce the net you get, I'm wondering if you couldn't factor out food costs from that $600 and handle them separately. If you are able to work out a shared authority arrangement with the POA holder, perhaps you could also get a debit or credit card for your aunt to be used only for food. I realize this could be a big trust issue, but just offer it for suggestion.

Or the POA holder could reimburse you separately for food and supplies costs.
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If this is by 1099 as a contractor I think you would be responsible for self employment taxes, complete FICA contribution, eTC that would reduce the $600.00 tremendously. In fact, in my situation, live in with mom was told IRS would never buy off on independent contractor.
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Addendum: I wouldn't worry about upsetting anyone, especially the caregiver/DPOA holder. If this arrangement goes bad, you and your husband will be the ones who will be disadvantaged.

Husband is right; you need to think more about how to protect yourselves as you're assuming a lot of risk.
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I've never experienced this situation, but it does seem to me that you need to have a temporary DPOA and temporary health care POA for 3 months or such time as your aunt returns home, or permanently if the situation becomes that.

Alternately, the same arrangement could be incorporated in specifically tailored durable and health care POAs providing for specific responsibilities for you and the person who has those responsibilities permanently. E.g., you could have emergency health care powers sufficient to get emergency services, have access to health care records, but not make long term decisions without consulting the individual who has these responsibilities permanently.

When your aunt returns home, your powers would expire.

You might also want to check with your homeowners agent to see if you need to upgrade your HO insurance. (I may have suggested this earlier and if so I apologize. I'm having too much trouble with my computer this morning to switch back and forth between screens and check my earlier posts.)

I understand the financial limitations, but think it should be the DPOA holder's financial responsibility to have documentation prepared. I guess I'm beginning to feel that you're accepting a lot of responsibility, but the holder of the actual powers isn't willing to give up responsibility and expects you to do all the work for $600 a month, which frankly is a pittance consider what you'll be doing.

I would sit down with DH, list everything that you can possibly think of to protect you, including but not limited to (a) emergency or nonemergency actions you feel appropriate with which the DPOA holder may not agree (b) method of payment of the $600 and options if the DPOA holder or his/her designee fails to make timely payment (or fails to pay at all), (c) whether or not the $600 will be covered by a 1099 at the end of the year (Vegas Lady is a former IRS agent and might be able to advise if you need to be concerned about this, specifically whether you'd be considered an independent contractor).

List everything you can think of and get both your aunt and the DPOA holder to sign, in front of witnesses, even if your aunt can only make an "x".

You might also consider what recourse you have it the DPOA holder breaches the agreement.

I'm really beginning to wonder now why the DPOA holder doesn't just have your aunt stay at an AL facility while her caregiver recovers from her surgery. I understand the desire to "keep this in the family", but am really getting the picture here that you're being put into a hard situation and are taking all of the steps to ensure that it's workable, but based solely on your affection for your aunt. The monetary compensation is really a pittance.

Do you know the caregiver? Can you rely on her/him to be paid? Does he/she have the resources to be more realistic with the compensation and/or have documentation prepared by an attorney?

I just can't help feeling that you've being taken advantage of, but again, it's hard to know the situation from posts on a forum.
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Thank you all for your comments & suggestions re my 94 yr old aunt.
I have a further question. My husband has stated that he is fine with me taking on this responsibility but his main concern is for my protection first & foremost. That being said is there something that I can have drawn up to protect me & to allow me to care for my Aunt.

I believe that a POA will not work at this time as her current caregiver more than likely has this & would be loath to give it up. They are going in for triple surgery on neck/back/ & knee. This individual to the best of my knowledge has complete control of Aunts affairs. Initially this is for a 3 month stay, though I do feel that it may become longer if not permanent.
It was stated that they (other person caring for Aunt) would send me a certain amount of funds each week to care for her & her needs. Any ideas on how to address this & possible word it. Getting a lawyer is out of the question... no funds. It is very hard for me to come up with the money to pay Medicare their required monthly amount for myself as I will not be receiving SS for another year & this is out of pocket. Currently living on less than 1K a month for all my expenses so the small amount ($600. a month) would be a tremendous help with her care. That amount would all go to her care with detailed records of expenses. She is a vegetarian so there will of necessity be separate groceries for her only.
I do not wish to upset anyone re this ,as I feel, letter of intent & permission to take the care of my Aunt. But do think that this should be a necessary document to safe guard me & to stipulate the payment for her expenses . Any thought on this would be greatly appreciated.
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@ GardenArtist: Thank you for your help and kind thoughts.
Yes I am in a somewhat rural area. Have been/ will be looking at Habitat for Humanity thrift store. We do also have a Salvation Army store close by. Good Will is around 60+ miles away from us. I will also see if there is any help or support from the senior center. Even just ideas or referals from them.
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Wondering, given the restrictions on accepting insurance, etc., you might be able to find a bath/shower chair either at one of the thrift shops, like Salvation Army, or through a community loan closet. Sounds like you're in a rural area, so there may not be the same level of availability as there might be in a heavily populated area. But some senior centers and some agencies do have loan centers. Area Agency on Aging might have sugggestions on this aspect.

I've seen specially adapted silverware for arthritic hands; saw these at booths at Area Agency on Aging Expos and may still have the literature but I'm not sure where it is.

If I can find it, I'll let you know who the suppliers are.

I'm impressed with your planning and consideration of all the options. You're very thorough, and I'm sure that you'll find possibilities for all the issues.

This is a learning experience, like walking a new path and seeing new plants and trees along the way. With your sound logic and positive attitude I'm sure you'll make it pleasant for both yourself and your aunt.

Thanks for the update.
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Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. I will try to answer any of your concerns that have come up re this post.

I have also come to the conclusion that the suction cup grab bars were/are intended for places where you CANNOT install the permanent bars. I.E. apts. or any rental home not designed for handicapped accessability.

I do have an elevated grab bar that is fastened to the outer edge of the tub (installed for myself) & a bath chair that has hand holds for the tub. Just have to figure out how to help her into position. I like the idea of the slide across extended bath bench/chair. If what I currently have does not work well, or if she comes to stay longer than the initial 3 mos. I will see what can be dome about acquiring one. Since Aunt does not believe in ANY material medica, Drs., hospitals, and has a reliqious exemption for Medicare & any other form of insurance that precludes any help or assistance from these areas. Also, I am on a extreamly limited income myself.

Though I like the idea of the bidet adaptor I don't think I will be doing it. My Aunt is not used to such things & since she cannot see it would be a shock to her. If it were something that she was familiar with from the time she could see (18+ yrs) it would be different and doable.

Since my Aunt always wears big sweaters with pockets the issue of accessability to her Kleenex is not a problem.

I will be getting a webbed G-belt to help me with the lifting of her. ( From & to bed/recliner/etc. ) She can walk short distances with help & assistance.

Though I have a wheeled & non-wheeled walkers, & a 4 footed alumn. cane for her to use. (Left over after the passing of my MIL.) Not to sure if she will be able to use any of them as her hands are "frozen" closed with just a small pintzer movement of her thumb & index finger on both hands. Not enough to even insert a utensil. I have been looking for on-line sites that may have something to help with this issue so she will feel better about feeding herself.

Re the question about a call device of some sort . Yes I have thought of this as her bedroom will be downstairs on the ground floor at one end of the house and mine will be upstairs at the other. I will be getting a monitor so I can be able to hear her whenever she needs assistance. The unit I found does not need to be activated or any buttons pushed by her but is sound/voice activated, with a receiving unit that has a 5 volume control, vibration mode, & a blinking lite mode, good to 1000 ft distance.

I have already spoken with the woman whose horses I pasture, & she has agreed that she would be more than happy to spend time with my Aunt. That is IF my Aunt will allow this. My Aunt is a VERY private person & does not whish anyone to see her in her current condition but we will try to work this out. Thought that when C comes to care for horses we can arrange a "chance" meeting & they can maybe start up a friendship over their believes & widowhood. C had mentioned that she takes an hour each day for her daily lesson & thought that if Aunt would like she would be glad to come here and do so with my Aunt also. Currently my Aunt does her "reading" of the Bible & daily lessons with the help of a tape player. (Large buttons, easy for her to use as long as someone loads the cassetts for her.)

Again, THANK YOU ALL for your insights & most helpful comments & questions. I am sure that there is still much that I have not thought of or addressed so any further help is greatly appreciated.
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12, GA has given very good advice, absolutely no to suction cup grab bars! I am surprised they even make them. Maybe you should think about a respite stay in an assisted living facility, not a nursing home. You are taking on a lot and three months is a long time. There are many good AL facilities out there. Aunt may find that she enjoys it, she will make new friends and she will develop new interests.
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Please NEVER NEVER NEVER use a suction grab bar! They are not safe. Therapists and tradespeople have all told us that grab bars must be anchored into the studs. One that's held on merely by suction cannot be relied on. Your aunt could reach for it and it could come off the wall and cause her to fall. These are absolute no-nos.

Hire a carpenter (not a handyman) to put in grab bars at the end of the bathtub (either vertically or installed at an angle) as well as a long grab bar installed horizontally on the longer side of the bathtub wall.

A slide across bath chair that's wider than the tub would be helpful as well. Your aunt would sit down on it outside the tub, hold onto the rails, lift one leg at a time over into the tub, then reach and hold onto the horizontal grab bar and scooch herself farther into the tub. No standing at all is required to get in and out of the tub.

I would also add grab bars (again, anchored into the studs) along pathways so she can feel her way along by holding onto the grab bars.

Remove any throw rugs as they're trip and fall hazards. And make sure she has a clear path with hand holds from the bedroom to the kitchen and any other areas she'll be spending time.

I would also get a medical alert, just to be on the safe side.

We added 2 small baskets purchased at Office Max and held on with auto hose clamps to my father's walker. He puts his orange juice and water in them to bring from the kitchen to the living room.

He also has a cloth carry-all, something like the cloth bags now used for groceries, attached by velcro strips to his walker. Your aunt could keep kleenex, etc. in it.

What plans do you have for her to contact you if there's an emergency in the middle of the night? Could she call out? Ring a bell or something louder? I thought of adding a phone extension but she couldn't use it to call you, and might not be able to use it anyway if she's unable to see. But I would be concerned about her needing something in the middle of the night - you never know when something will come up.

Perhaps you could ask the CS woman whose horses you pasture to stop by and provide some socialization for your aunt.
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If she is used to a bidet adapter then consider the kind she is used to. You might want to wait and so how toileting goes before you make a purchase.
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There are several septic-safe wipes, you will need to read the labels to see which will work. Bidet adapters are nice, but only if you get one that attaches to the faucet so she can have warm water spray. Great Idea.
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Grandmother had 6 children, I am the only grandchild & Aunt was the oldest of siblings. My Mother was the youngest. All dead now, just the 2 of us left.
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