Should I combine homes with Mom (sell my home and farm) to take over my mom’s lake house against my brothers’ wishes, but following hers?

Sounds a bit confusing to me. I live in Louisiana. We DO NOT have forced heirship for all children. That law has been amended. A child has to be 23 and under. Are you or your brothers 23 or younger? Forced heirship across the board was voted out. I think you should contact an attorney. Does your mom have a will? What is in her will?

So, do you no longer want to live on your farm? You want to move to a lake house? Remodel it? With what motive? To inherit it? And what about your mom, flip flopping on what she wants? Sounds shaky to me.

Living with her under one roof? Or a separate suite for her? Please clarify.

How old is she? Is she in good health? Do you think she is tired of the house? There are nice assisted living facilities these days. Why not do that? She wants to cruise now or when your dad was alive?

It is not easy to live with parents. Plus you have children. Not as simple as you think. Things CHANGE when you are living under the same roof.

Give us a little more details please. Thanks.

Your brothers are part of this picture. Your mom needs to clarify what she wants. Ultimately she has the last word.

Best wishes to you and your family.

Bluelady, this started to devolve when there was lack of transparency of what you were doing with your mom and the house. When people are in an information void, their minds come up with all kinds of stuff to fill in the gaps and none of it is based in truth, because they weren't told the truth at the appropriate time. In the end, your family is more important. No one is on their death bed wishing they can had more property or things instead of better relationships with their family.

Maybe it's not too late to have a family meeting (your brothers and their wives) but maybe not your mom in this first meeting. Start the meeting by apologizing to them for giving the impression of ___________. Come to the meeting with a printed agenda (so you can stay on topic) to discuss what your mom has now told you she *thinks* she wants for her future and what are everyone else's thoughts.

Then you can have a second meeting, this time with your mom. Since your family WILL be involved in caring for your mom in some capacity as she ages, your entire extended family gets to have a say as to what they are or are not willing to do. This conversation may clarify what you do with your properties BUT I personally would not have your mom live in your house with you, unless you plan on being her manager, social planner, chaperone, driver, etc. She doesn't really know what she wants but what you should want is for her to be realistic and for everyone to have thought through how they will (or won't) participate. The good news is it seems she has ample finances, which increase her options and lessens your burden. Honestly if she's fairly young still (70's) and in good physical and cognitive health she could live in a nice. close senior community in IL and she can carry on with calm and enjoyable family relationships like before. Everyone needs to try to make non-emotionally-based, non-romanticized decisions. I wish you and your family much success and a healed relationship!

Just want to say, plan with Medicaid being considered. Mom may need it one day and it depends on how you handle things now to how it effects her receiving Medicaid in the future.

The problem I see is your family considers this a vacation home. If you move in, are you going to want people around during the Summer? They say never make decisions the first year after a spouses death. Just because Mom is lonely, doesn't mean you should change your lives. And it would be a shame to give up something the whole family enjoys. I think if the brother is willing to move in with her, thats the best choice. He can do the upkeep. You can help when needed. And, you can have your dream. You all get to enjoy the lake.

Blueday, Who is her PoA?
Does she have all her legal paperwork (PoA, Medical Directive, Living Will, Last Will, Trust) taken care of?
Your mom has Lupus, and I'm not familiar with that -- what are the implications of Lupus as one ages?
You say she is already withdrawing socially...this can be a sign of cognitive change (or unaddressed grief). Have you ever gone to a doc appt with her? Has she ever had a cognitive exam?
Yes, the lake home sounds like a wonderful centering point...is it far from any of her children?
FYI the county in which she ultimately resides should be one with many resources for the elderly. My 2 aunts in FL live in a poor county. Had they moved just 1 mile north, they would have been in county that had far more services.
Thanks for the extra info!

Are there other homes on a lake you can afford? I think any deal involving your mom's house is going to cause you trouble.

It sounds like your brothers think that they should be able to visit the house anytime they want after you buy it and that your family-who live there and owns it- will crowd them out. You would end up owning a free bed and breakfast and hosting resentful guests.

Don't let the emotions of your attachment to your mother's house confuse the issue. Let the house go. Buy or build a new home and enjoy it free of any family entanglement.

Your mom might really enjoy a continuing care community. If you have the money, that's the way to go.

Blueday,

Thanks for your response. All of you have some decisions to make. There are quite a few issues all of you have to discuss and agree on. I am glad to see that you are willing to discuss this with your family. It’s difficult when there are different viewpoints. Say your point of view, hear them out as well. Don’t try to talk your mom into anything if she disagrees. It’s her home and her money that should be spent on her future living expenses.

Of course, there are memories attached to your family lake home. Ultimately, unless your mom is incompetent, the decision is hers to make regarding her home.

She doesn’t sound overly attached to her home. She has lived out her years there with your dad. She seems ready to move on. I feel that she would do well in an assisted living facility. If she needs the income from turning her home into a duplex, she should have it. If she chooses to sell her home to financially be able to live in a nice assisted living facility, she should be able to without interference from her children.

I live in Louisiana too. I am in New Orleans. Forget about your outdated information of forced heirship too. That law was amended many years ago. If you are the youngest at 50, then none of you qualify because anyone over the age of 23 is not included. So, there is no forced heirship regarding your family.

Your mom and dad maintained this home and your mom should benefit from whatever value it has to support her in her senior years. Your mom doesn’t owe you this home because it is sentimental to you. Please consider your mom’s future.

Best wishes to you and your family.

Firstly, if your mom is along, house is too much, she can quite well fix that herself by moving into assisted living. It sounds like she is perfectly competent to make decisions about her life and IMO she should do just that, not involve her kids in a lot of turmoil. Maybe I've got this all confused, but I suspect it is questions of fairness/inheritance with your siblings.  Been in this kind of general situation and my take was:  fairness and good relationships with sibs come first. I would not want to even be perceived as taking advantage. One for all, all for one, with us sibs. A house is just a house after all.

Please don't do this...I wished I had found this forum before I moved in with my mother! All the emotions can and does cloud our thinking!

You are probably not going to like what I have to say but here it goes...after my dad died my mother talked about my sig other and me moving in with her. Saying "she doesn't want to live alone" and "how she couldn't keep up the family home." "And how the raising cost is making it hard for her financially...blah blah!" Well my sig other and I moved in and we were treated like crap. My brother and her ganged up on me...telling me "dad would not like you doing this or that," "you didn't do this right or you did this wrong." I am talking about that I wasn't washing dishes correctly or I was loading the dishwasher wrong and I could only do laundry on Sundays and the washer and dryer must be empty Sunday night but my mother could leave her clothes in the washer or dryer for a week. Meanwhile, my low life brother was stealing my dad's tools and whatever else he could get his hands on; plus, telling me "mom doesn't want you here," "you should move out of state," "why don't you just leave...no one wants you here." My mother treated me like she didn't want me here either. I would cry every night wishing I could move but we had no real money...we were stuck in hell and my daddy couldn't save me from them anymore! I never thought in a million years that my mother would be so cruel. I was very ill at the time and she knew it. I stuck it out because I was afraid of losing my family home...I stuck it out because I had no where to go...I stuck it out because I knew something was wrong with my mother and I knew she would have loss my dad's house and she almost did. She spent well over 40 thousand dollars that she didn't have...giving my brother money...truck loans...rake up thousands of dollars in credit card...I cleaned up her mess again, but this would be the last time.
Things are better now, but I had to go through h3ll to get where I am now!!

You have 3 brothers and you want to take over the family home because mom "says" she wants you to and you plain on selling your home and some land to give some or all that money to your brothers so they too will get something out of it, but one or two of them are not for this idea. Am I correct? How about I bet you that one if not all your brothers have a plan to live/own the house some day! Do you really think this is going to end well because it won't. Sure you might end up with the house, but at what cost?

Now, I am not saying your brothers are low life like mine or even that your mom well be as mean as mind was, but I am going to say that things won't turn out like you think! There is a reason people say "you can't go home again." People change for the better or the worst which it has been my experience that it is usually worst.

Maybe one brother wanted the house but never told anyone or did tell mom; however, mom doesn't think its a good idea so she just kept that to herself. Your brothers will wonder if they haven't yet "why does she get the house?" You will be amazed what will come out of this! I have learned when the leader or breadwinner dies everybody starts getting worried about what will they get...even the people you thought would never be that way! Every little thing that has happen in your family that wasn't good will come back and it will feel like a dark cloud or fog that you just can't find your way out of. Every bad memory...every fight you had with your brothers...every bad feelings that you or your brothers have had...EVERYTHING!

If you decide to do this please have a back-up plan in case if living with mom doesn't work out. I had a back-up plan, but I had to make a choice, put my backup plan into place and let my mother go down and lose the house or I stay and save the house in turn saving my mother from herself! I think I made the wrong decision! I knew something was wrong with my mother, I thought it was depression but it was...Dementia

Before you go too far with planning for a duplex out of the house or another house on the properly, check with your parish zoning office to see if that would even be permitted. It may require an application and approval to do what you dream.

Part 2;

Now that I have gotten my brother out of the picture (away from my mother) he has tried to break in 3 times and he doesn't understand why he can't come here...well he try to beat me up after the first yr and I had to tell my mother that either you let him in here and I will move out to never be seen again or he isn't welcome here anymore! He has egged my jeep 2 times. He broke glass bottles in the driveway hoping either for me to get glass in my feet because I walk barefoot a lot in the summer or to flatten my sig other's truck triers. He tried to break in the garage. He broke the mirror on my mother's truck and flatten her triers before she lost her truck. He drives by day & night. Why? Because this was his childhood home and he is the oldest and he should have the house. And he calls all hours because he doesn't get that our mother has dementia and she is now scare of the phone. She no longer understand how it works!

I really am sorry that this is so long, but I just wanted you to see the flip side of things. By the way, I thought my mother and I had a pretty good relationship just to find out at the end--she never liked me or even loved me...who knew!( She faked it so good that she fooled my dad and that is saying something. Now I only talk to her when I have to...we no longer have a real relationship. I am her caretaker and she is just an old lady who I take care of!!! Everything change!!!

There is always one bad apple in the family except for mine..it has 2!


Think long and hard about what you are doing! Good luck!

Blueday, thanks for answers to the questions. You say you think you are PoA but not sure. Well, you can't be PoA without both of you signing papers with witnesses, having it notarized and each of you getting original copies...so you don't seem to be the PoA. Now that begs the question: who is? Anyone? It's important for her future care that she have this in place. It's possible your dad was her PoA and now he's gone. Since you are on shaky footing with her, would one of your brothers be willing to probe this with her to see if she has this in place? Maybe when your hubby takes her for a long car ride this conversation can be had. She needs to know the ugly reality of what could happen if she doesn't assign someone. Make sure you tell her you don't care who of your siblings is PoA so that she doesn't think you're fishing for it. Make sure your brothers know about any conversations on this with her so they don't get freaked out or suspicious. FYI your mom can have more than one person as PoA.

NO. You are married with a life.
It already sounds ENMESHED, not meshed.

Too many red flags in your Mom's behavior(s).
Do not give up control of your life and finances no matter who owns what, no matter if someone else owns more.

Now go, make your own life, keep your own finances, and keep your husband.

Keep it simple by having boundaries.

First world problems are still problems - you remind me of a lovely story I heard about a journalist whose baggage went missing when she was on assignment to a very poor country, and who embarrassed herself by starting to complain about the loss of her only evening gown to her local colleague. "Of course I understand!" he replied, "we have first world problems too."

Anyhooooo....

I like your mother's initial idea of cruise ship living, and if I were you I wouldn't touch the joint estate plans with a stick.

Take your mother back to square one, and support her vigorously in that. She will be fine and you and your husband will be free to make your own best choices. What others do is up to them.

I have not read all the replies, but I do see some red flags.

Why do you feel that your memories of the lake house have greater value than your brothers' memories? You seem to feel that you and your family have a greater 'right' to the property.

If your family of 6 moved in, where would your brothers' families stay when they came to visit? I can understand them wanting the Lake House to be available to everyone to use, not just your specific family.

My family is facing a similar situation. We have a waterfront property that was my grandmother's home. My brother and I will inherit it and trying to come to any sort of agreement about how to use the property, how to cover expenses etc is almost impossible. Our options are limited, sell or subdivide. He and I are only two years apart in age, but my kids are 21, 23, 34 and his are 8, 10, 12. So our kids are at very different life stages. We are also in very different financial positions.

One of the many challenges we face is that my kids want to go stay with their young adult friends and party. My brother wants to invite all his in-laws over with all his kids cousins on that side of the family. Very different uses of the property.

I can completely understand your brothers saying, if you want Mum to live with you, move her in where you are currently living. If you move your large family in with her, you are taking away your brothers and their families' access to the Lake House. You talk about Mum being downgraded, but you really mean you want to upgrade your home at the expense of your brothers.

Why are you bothered that Mum lives alone?

Now, does Mum have an updated Will and POA documents since Dad died?

Blueday there are professionals who specialise in helping sort these things out, known here as succession planning specialists. They are used to help (usually wealthy) families negotiate the difficult problems of who takes the family farm or business, how are the other children compensated, where do the retired parent/s fit in, how do the tax implications work best, how to structure it all in ownership/trusts etc. In particular, they manage negotiation meetings that don’t go off the rails and result in damaged family relationships. They brief themselves and then run the meetings, making sure that everyone has a fair go.

I think that your mother and your family could really benefit from this. How about checking it out?

Blue,

Thanks for responses and recognition of Louisiana State University’s championship win. Yes, we are celebrating it!

My daughter is graduating this May from LSU. What a year! Undefeated season, Joe Burrow winning the Heisman trophy! Championship win! Game was played in our New Orleans Superdome!

Oh yes, there were tons of house parties, sports bar parties, tailgating parties, partying in the dome, basically parties all over New Orleans. You are right, we do like to celebrate.

Mardi Gras is coming up right around the corner. Don’t know what area of Louisiana you are in. Come visit and I will cut you a slice of king cake!

Or visit for my favorite time of year, Jazz and Heritage festival.

I read your post again after I read all the replies.

IF your family moved into the lake house, what happens to it after your mother dies? Would it be shared equally amongst you and your three brothers? Or is she going to give it to you alone? What do you expect?

This concerns me: " She nursed my Dad so perfectly that he lived longer than he should have by a decade." Your mother is in good health NOW, but what happens when she starts failing? Are YOU expected to be her caregiver? Many times we read on this board that the elder refuses to allow anyone other than family take care of them. They don't want "strangers" in their house. Let's assume your (irritated/angry) brothers aren't going to participate in caregiving, right? So then what?

If your mother is amenable to living in a facility, jump on that!

What would happen to the lake house if she did move? Would it sit empty, unless the family was using it?

Is your mother financially equipped to pay for facility living without selling the lake house?

I see so many red flags here...but, most of all, I would think long and hard before moving your mother in with you. It's expected of YOU (the only daughter). You might end up becoming her 24/7 caregiver slave, and in the end you will have to share any inheritance equally with your brothers. How is that fair?

P.S. I wouldn't be sharing these posts with your brothers...

I suggest you and your siblings jointly purchase the lake house from your mother and enter into a property management agreement. Allow your mother to move into the AL where she will have more socialization opportunities and assistance will be readily available when she needs it as age related declines happen. And she can still visit her lake house and know it will stay in the family, at least in her lifetime.

The property management agreement needs to be similar to an HOA agreement and state basic maintenance needs that will be jointly covered, damages that will be repaired by the damaging party, who authorizes and oversees repairs and maintenance, penalties for non-payment of property maintenance share (this should include taxes), options for selling share to other family members and/or agreement for a complete sale if a owner needs funds and other family cannot buy them out, the manner a calendar for using the house will be maintained, what guests will be allowed, exclusion of criminal acts (including guests with drugs).

In my extended family there was a similar family property where some siblings wanted the property to remain a "family" resource but didn't really want any responsibility for maintaining the property. The joint purchase and maintenance agreement was able to quickly eliminate siblings who didn't want to put their money where their mouth was. Three siblings jointly purchased the property and shared it without any issues for decades. It was still a "family" property with the non-owner siblings and their families using the property for some time almost every year and even some weddings, but with a requirement for non-owners to _ask_. The only issue I remember ever coming up was the non-owner families not cleaning the house before they left, so they were asked to pay a cleaning fee. When one sibling died a few years back, her widower and daughter per the agreement offered the share at fair market value to the surviving siblings and their adult children; when no one took the offer the other co-owners jointly purchased the share so now there's only the two of them owning the property.

If either you were to buy the home or your brother were to move in with your mom, the wish is to continue enjoying a family home environment that everyone has fond memories of. No one seems to be considering that mom will change and may need care for herself, not just the property. And she may resent anything that anyone does to her home to make it theirs. She could make any decisions that you come up with into a disaster. Perhaps memories of the lake house are better than having your dreams ruined by mom's attitude after converting it into your home.

Blue.

I realize that you want to respect your mom’s privacy but this does involve your family. You need to know what is going on in order to help prepare for your mom’s future care. Have a talk with her about specific details. Get all legal issues in order. POA, wills, living will for mom or POLST, etc. This will give everyone peace of mind. You are not prying into her affairs. You are preparing for the future.

I don't even know if I should bring this up, since you are determined that your mother will be cared for at home.

Realize that the way she is now won't be the way she always is. Are you prepared to be her 24/7/365 caregiver? Do you realize what that might entail down the line?

You are opposed to selling the lake house so that she could pay for a facility. But what's life really going to look like for you if you become a 24/7 caregiving slave so that others can enjoy the lake house? Your brothers aren't going to take over any of the caregiving, are they?

"I suggest you and your siblings jointly purchase the lake house from your mother and enter into a property management agreement." Poster's brothers may not be able to afford their portion of the upkeep. I would not go into business on a lake house with family members at this late stage of the game. Had this been done when poster's dad was still alive, had her brothers shown interest in maintaining the property, and had the brothers been kind toward poster's family being at the lake house, then maybe it would be worth considering. But, based on everything I've read so far from you, Blueday, I think you should keep your farm.

Blueday - I mean no offense by what I'm about to write. Your mother seems to want things her way i.e. keeping the lakehouse in the family, announcing that if you built on your farm she's coming, etc. Your mother's expectations may be unrealistic.

$40,000 worth of lake toys? Surely a boat or water vehicles are included?? If they aren't being used, sell them. I know it's hard to dismantle the precious memories of your family's lakehouse; however, it's time to be practical.

Your first responsibility is to your husband. You and your husband must do what is best for you. You and your husband need to consult a financial advisor to help you make this very important decision. Your brothers still have rights over the property - and will not sign them over - and that is a huge, red flag.

I think the first thing you and your husband need to do is step back and look at your mother's needs objectively. Your mother's needs are only going to increase. I do hope you keep this conversation going.

What has happened in the past when you went against your brother's wishes?

Sometimes, the future is so much like the past and present, only more of it.

Avoid engaging in the sibling rivalry and making an alliance with Mom.
It is a temptation, isn't it? If she were to 'choose' you?

After my dad went into NH, my mom moved in with her kids because she didn't want to live alone. However, she kept her home because she just couldn't part with it. So my sister ended up doing the care of it for 4 years before she acknowledged she wasn't going to live there. I now find myself alone and am amazed at a few friends and family who think my kids should be staying with me. Of course it gets lonely and it's tough, but to expect them to upend their lives to keep me company - no. And when the house and yard are too much for me, I'll make the change. Sure, I ask for help with things like changing the light bulb in the garage or lifting something too heavy. I guess what I'm saying is being alone is part of being the remaining spouse and it's up to us to adapt and adjust. Be mindful of your responsibilities to your own family - once you make this change, you won't be able to dial it back if (and sadly when) things don't work out.

Blue,

Do you remember when you were pregnant and realized that your life would NEVER be the same again after the baby was born? That is how it is when a parent moves into your home. Things will NEVER be the same again. Trust me. I know.

Even in the best of circumstances with no major rifts, things will happen that is going to rub someone, somewhere, somehow the wrong way! It isn’t like The Walton’s television show. In fact, it can end up being either a horror show or a drama!

Seriously, start looking at this from a realistic point of view, rather than a dream of living on a lake.

I get the memories. My parents bought their home when I was a baby. I grew up there. Hurricane Katrina destroyed it. New Orleans looked like a war zone, like a freakin bomb exploded. It was heartbreaking to see. Nine feet of water! It killed me to see that. It was extremely emotional. The only thing left hanging on the wall was my graduation picture! My nephew told me that he felt that was a symbol of me being a survivor. For the survivors that decided to stay it was a struggle but we made it.

The refrigerator was knocked down on it’s side, the china cabinet and buffet too. Everything was destroyed by ravaging winds and water. I have no baby pictures, no christening gown, nothing left from my youth. But you know what, I am here. My family survived. So many people died in that storm. I am blessed. I evacuated to Houston and we survived. A house is just a material possession. Your memories are in your heart. Hey, I occasionally drive by where my parents house used to be, it was demolished. My mom was too old to rebuild. Another home is there now. There is one thing that did survive, a huge live oak tree. I must have climbed up in that tree a million times. So, yeah I am sentimental too but there comes a time we have to let go.

Your dad worked hard to attain that home and would want it first and foremost to be used for your mom’s care? Don’t you think? Whatever the value of that home is should go towards a lovely place for her to live out her senior years, such as an assisted living facility.

I am not trying to be rude. I am looking at this from a realistic point of view. Rent it out or sell it. If you can afford market value and want to buy it and mom agrees, go for it! It’s her decision. She should still go into assisted living. Then you can still be her daughter who visits just like you do now. You will not be her primary full time caregiver, her landlord or anything else!

You keep your life. She has hers. You can be as involved as you want but if you choose to travel or whatever you are not tied down with the extreme responsibility of caregiving.

It costs lots of money to hire private sitters at home. It’s less expensive at a facility. Just think about it some more.

Best wishes to you and your family.

Let me just say that I speak from experience. I went the other route and allowed mom to move into my home after Hurricane Katrina destroyed hers and it did not work out, not with mom or siblings. Trust me, it’s a long and winding road with bumps, detours and potholes!

You've gotten so much thoughtful advice here.

Something to consider. It sounds as though you know very little about mom's wishes, or her cognitive and emotional state. The way you describe her, she sounds like she is all over the place. And maybe, just maybe, there is some cognitive decline going on. It doesn't sound like you've had a direct conversation with her; she's just hinting around the edges.

How much do you know about your mom's finances? Can she afford a nice facility without selling the lake house?

Does mom often make these sweeping statements like "if you build on the farm, I'm moving in"? She sounds a bit....dictatorial. Are you willing to live like that in your retirement years?

I'm not a big believer in parents moving in with their adult children; I've seen it go really, really wrong too many times to think that it's going to turn out like the Waltons.

Has mom looked at that nice facility recently?