Has anyone experienced being in the sandwich generation?

Keep it up! Great to hear you've made progress in setting boundaries for yourself.

Way to go TG! It hard making that first step but everyone is happier in the end and moving forward becomes easier. Keep up the good work. Look forward to hearing updates.

Stopped making dinner for everyone, just when necessary or when I feel like cooking. Ive been busy working evenings, my wife eats whenever she wants and everyone else is left to fend for themselves. Daughter said don't make a big dinner we will eat whatever. OK, with that said a lot of pressure off. Next week I'm on travel so it's John Wayne time, you are on your own.
That feels better........

So glad you are moving forward TG!

I get it...... working on that. I am not being subtle anymore, Using direct (clear) language. Tired of being subtle. I work all day and many nights and weekends so I am tired especially taking care of the house. Found a way to fix the dog poop problem. "Contractors at the house, there is a bucket with a poop scoop next to it, use it when you take YOUR dog out!" So far it is working, except dad, he just leaves his dog out.... One step at a time I guess.
Dinner "Are you guys home tonight"? NO? Fine, making dinner for me, it's at 6 if you are here or not.....
Time has arrived to make some hard decisions.
Dad is getting more socially involved, it seems to be helping. Wife and I are just doing our thing......

Contact an attorney. He'll get them out!

If you were on the job, the structure is on fire, a child is inside, and you need them to vent the roof. Would you just mentioned it in a vague way? Probably not.
Or on a wildland fire, you are in a drainage, mid slope (where you shouldn't be anyway), the weather changes, thunderstorms on the way. Would you hint that they needed to get the hell out of there? Think Storm King, 30 Mile, Loop Fire.
No, you need to use the same tone of voice, and attitude that you would use in those situations. Your house (both real and figurative) is on fire. You need to get them out. You need to be clear, especially with family who have no desire to move.

Exactly. People come in different flavors, with different levels of social/emotional intelligence.

In my family, if you said "I'm sorry I cant come that weekend" it was understood that you didn't want to attend the event. It was a well-understood code.

Imagine my shock when i said to my new MIL, "no, we can't come visit next weekend, I have paper due on Monday". She told me i could just do my paper during the week and it would be just fine for us to make the 3 hour bus ride that weekend. I quickly learned that "code" and subtlties didn't work on that family.

This is going a bit off off topic, but Baba's post reminded me of a story...

Bil and sis were visiting a couple they know and the hour was getting late. Sis was getting antsy because the couple had mentioned several times what a busy day they had coming up, then the yawns started. Finally the wife excused herself and returned in her nightgown and robe and told them she was heading for bed. BIL still couldn't understand why sis dragged him home (was quite POed actually), the hubby was still up...

The moral of the story, with some people subtle doesn't cut it, even rudeness doesn't always get the message across, you need to spell it out in BLOCK LETTERS!

TG, here's the thing. You "mentioned" to the kids about renting rather than buying.

Let that sink in for a minute. I'm sure that when someone "mentions" something to you, you take the hint and act on the hint without further direction. Your daughter is not made that way. Neither is son in law, or your dad. They are made of sterner stuff.

You are going to need to say, "we're putting an expiration date of your staying here; you need to be out by December 1st." Or, you need to say "we're putting an expiration date on your staying here for free; here is the rental agreement. the terms are generous; please let us know by Monday if you are signing and getting this notorized, or if you'll be moving out in two weeks".

It's not a Question or an insinuation. It's a demand.

And the warming up the car inside the garage thing; clearly your daughter was not paying attention to you or to anyone who taught her any science in school.

TG, you are going to have to learn a whole different way of communicating with this particular child of yours AND with your dad. It needs to be direct, short and with a consequence. I think back to when your dad was walking around with the knife blade pointing out and he said "I'm too old to change". I think I would have said "then you're too dangerous to live here".

YOUR behavior is going to have to change before your living circumstances do.

Tell the kids to rent the apartment and use that to start fixing their credit. You are too much a pushover. Put on big-boy pants and get them O U T. Your posts seem to give your daughter a break - she is just as bad as the SIL and acting like a spoiled teenager. You are doing no favors for them. Time for tough love.

I am trying. Last night everyone was out (did not not know until last minute) This is why I do not plan dinner until last minute now. So my wife and I tried to enjoy a few hours of quiet.... 3 dogs running around.... Oh well. It was nice tho. When the kids came home we mentioned a place to rent that is where they want to be. Now after my pushing to buy vs. rent they say "no we are looking to buy rather than rent now"...... so now they decide to listen to me but the down side is they cant get a mortgage until they fix some credit issues. This will take some time which means they are moving out anytime soon!...... Aragh!
I have to watch what I say.... Plus the SILs truck broke down, hopefully he can fix it today... of course he has to wait for his check to buy parts...." what do you have to wait for, you don't have any expenses, you live here rent and food and truck payment free, what are you doing with your money?" I don't get it.
This AM my daughter starts my spare car in the garage and goes into to let it warm up...... I have a below grade garage.... As I was going out the door I quietly told her NO, don't warm the car up inside the garage, she will kill us with CO poisoning.... The car is IN the garage, it is already warmed up. Apparently she was not happy with me. I can't believe after all my years in the fire service she did that.....
This is what I live with!
It is making living with dad look like a dream!

I agree! Give them the boot!!

And again, i would make sure dad gets a neurocognitive evaluation. Might just be a personality disorder. But he could have Mild Cognitive Impairment.

Dear TG, I'm not sure why you think your dad might ask how much the baettery cost, or that he might say "thank you". Is this something he's done in the past? Do you think he might do b it because you would? And because it would be the right thing to do?

That's not your dad's personality, not his temperment. He resents that he's not Lord of the Manor. He resents you and tries to belittle you. He engages in passive aggressive actions and you fall into the trap every single time.

Your daughter and son in-law appear to be master manipualtors and users. You are likewise playing into their game.

It's really very sad to read your posts.

TG, on days that you're not there for dinner, could Mrs. TG let the others know that they're on their own to cook? Sounds like she could use a breather too, and they've proven they're more than able to fix their own meal.

Absolutely true Kimber, I empathise with Tgengine and I think it is important that he comes here to vent. I also think he needs to hear from people who can give a different message than the one he is hearing from those around him and from that little voice inside that keeps telling him he should not only give (and give and give) but be happy about it.

Tgengine - one more thing. My mom sounds a lot like your dad - she blew through 250K from her divorce, never saved, always needed money for cell phone, rent, car insurance etc. She retired and only had $500/month - nothing else. Finally I and my sister got tired of seeing new junk in her apartment every visit but she had not enough money for rent. We shut her off.

She didn't go out on the street. WE worked with local aging services to find an apartment pegged to her income - which is beautiful and she loves. She manages for herself on $500/month - all her expenses. I wouldn't rule out getting dad into a senior living community on his own. People are as helpless as you let them be.

Hi Tgengine and all who have provided wonderful advice: I know Tgengine has posted about these issues previously. Maybe he just needs to vent and have us give ideas and suggestions and somehow it helps him. My stepmom was in a situation where she was extremely frustrated at being a walk over and would vent to me, I and others would give advice, which it appeared she didn't take. It turns out that is what she needed to keep going. She knew she should make the changes we suggested and was extremely resentful for being in the situation - but didn't take the hard steps. Finally I realized that she was not likely to - it was not her personality - but she still needed an outlet for venting. She did like the suggestions too - it gave her options to mull over. Well, after 7 years - she finally did make the hard choice - stood up for herself, kicked out moochers and shut off the money tap. And you know what? They didn't starve, or go bankrupt. They didn't even feel resentment that she kicked them out. She wishes she would have done it years earlier.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that let's be patient with Tgengine - keep reinforcing to him that he is not the bad guy, that he needs to kick out the kids, he needs to shut off the cash to dad, and keep letting him know he can vent. Eventually things will change - either he will take the steps or someone else will. But we are all on Tgenine's side.

Tgengine wrote:

"I am the nice guy who cant say no."

"I never realized I was such a push over."

"Dad cant live on his own, it just wouldn't work, it would be more work for me."

"30 days has turned into 4 months......."

TGengine, the best thing you can do for yourself is recognize your weaknesses and limitations and start adapting to them instead of posting repeatedly complaining about them. This complaint has been going on for months, you justify the situation, yet complain about it, find excuses or limitations to prevent change that would help you find your status and self respect that you seem to have lost.

Nothing's going to change if you don't force it. Recognize it and accept your limitations. We all have them. It's better to learn how to deal with them than pretend you want tochange - you can't change their behavior and have demonstrated tolerance for it.

Why should they change when they have a nice cushy doormat who enables them?



CWillie:

"TG, I think we all see your dilemma and we despair that you are completely unable to help yourself. Nothing has changed for the better since you first posted, in fact your burdens have increased with the addition of your daughter and SIL. "

Yes, so true. But despair only lasts so long, and some of us have realized this situation is not going to change regardless how many threads are started and how many helpful posts are written.


Mom2Mom:

"I'm going to give you a little tough love. If they have so little regard for your feelings, your home, or your anything, what relationship are you so worried about losing?"

Also yes, so true. A subordinate, doormat type relationship isn't worth preserving.

But, through all his posts, there are just more and more complaints to the point that it's time to recognize that suggestions are fruitless. Those who disagree should read his earlier posts.

"It is easy to say get out by a certain date. I want a good relationship with my daughter. "

This one sentence rang home for me. My mother is probably the ultimate enabler and my one brother has never grown up because he has never had to. She used to let one son or another live with her and be totally supported and cleaned up after and I have always been convinced that she has been afraid that if she did anything different, then they wouldn't love her anymore.

I'm going to give you a little tough love. If they have so little regard for your feelings, your home, or your anything, what relationship are you so worried about losing? If they love you, they will love you after you force them to stand on their own. If they don't they never will, regardless of how much you do for them. Boot them out and see which one it always was.

Sometimes, a lot of the time, it is easier to do things our self rather than waiting for someone else. Almost any life lesson we teach our kids can be like that, (it is so much easier to make the beds, do the laundry, clean the house etc than to have to put up with a half a$$ed job or nag constantly) but the consequences of that are that they never learn to do those things and never feel the satisfaction of a job well done. In the workplace there may be people who are slackers, but when we go ahead and do the things they leave undone they will never be called to account.
There are consequences to us as well; the time that has been stolen from us when we cover for others. It's not only the actual time spent cleaning, cooking etc, it is the extra hours spent working at paid employment to cover the extra expenses involved and the toll on our physical and mental health. TG, I think we all see your dilemma and we despair that you are completely unable to help yourself. Nothing has changed for the better since you first posted, in fact your burdens have increased with the addition of your daughter and SIL. I wonder where you will be in a year from now?

I never realized I was such a push over. Dads car battery died Sunday. The SIL took him to church and my daughter picked him up., You would think SIL would plug the one of many chargers I have here to charge the battery... nope. So I did and got him by for a day. Yesterday I took his battery out and got a new one. Dad did come down as I was installing it ready to help me take it out.... I did get a think you but not "how much was it"?, nope, nothing. So I guess I am just expected. He did research it the night before and found a very expensive one... It was just easier for me to get it and install it rather than deal with him having no wheels and me having to deal with that. I surely wont let him use my spare car or my new truck. I hate to be this way. I made a nice dinner last PM, at least everyone liked it..... So tonight I have to work (yes 14 hour days for me some times) so "yall are on your own" ... which means my wife has to cook.....
I'm just tired. I was so grumpy last PM I didn't get to enjoy the trick or treaters as when the door bell rang dad yells out "is someone going to answer the door"? While my wife has to herd the dogs.
Exhausted is my term now. Having an office in the house, taking care of at least 2 dogs (vs my doors getting torn up).
It is easy to say get out by a certain date. I want a good relationship with my daughter. I saw how a difficult relationship with in laws as with my parents (one loser for a sister in-law, gone and one grumpy one brother in law). I took care of my in-laws as much as I could. They were very self sufficient even with my FIL having a major stroke and speaking very little English.
Dad cant live on his own, it just wouldn't work, it would be more work for me. In the end this is a has to be. He doesn't know what it is like to be on his own, he was for 8 months while I made bi weekly trips across 7 states to take care of things. He can but it would be a disaster, then Id have to do clean-up anyway, medical, physical, everything else.
As far as kids, one is totally on her own making her way without any help (OK I pay her cell phone and some trips home to see us). She got it, college, good job, move out, be on your own. I don't want to be the heavy but I don't want to see this be a year or 5 down the road. I will probably stroke out by then.
Besides saying you have so many days how do I get this point across? I do have a time to be with my daughter one on one soon so maybe I can get out of her what their plans are. The SIL is just weeks away from a permanent position with the new job so every day I wait for the other shoe to drop.
30 days has turned into 4 months.......
I'd say I would start serving crappy food but they would eat it anyway. Maybe I will go on strike for making meals..... see how that goes...... we did give up cleaning their areas bedrooms and bathrooms. I have no idea what our hall bathroom is like. Gave up on dads rooms months ago..... oh the smell.... I have to vacuum his living room once in a while when he is not around because that is in full view of when people come to the house. Otherwise when he is home he makes comments about the maids..... which is right up there with the "Chef" comment while I am cooking. Last night again he made it, "I thought I was being nice"...... no, it is because I am not "YOUR chef".... I am not an "employee" nor is my wife "your maid"..... you see where I am going with this?

One more thing. If your dad is low income, he should qualify for senior housing based on his income. If there are waiting lists, he should be on them

Google " subsidized senior housing" along with your state. I was able to locate several places with rent based on income in New Hampshire.

I'm curious how you think you're going to be able to keep the rest of this crew out of that sunroom when you don't have the wherewithall to manage your father during a party, or set up a schedule whereby dad, your daughter and son in law participate in cooking for the family. Or contributing to household costs. Or picking up after their dogs. Or adhering to payments for a car. Or stick to an agreed on schedule for getting their own place. Or manage their money so that it lasts till the end of the month.

I don't think what you " expect" is unreasonable. I do think that you must not be articulating your requirements and demands to your housemates in a clear way. Or if you are, not extracting whatever remediation is proper when those demands are not followed.

Why should anyone do anything differently if all that happens is that you blow uo and get quiet?

1 set up a payment schedule for the car. You'll call the repo guy if payments are not timely.

2. Kids must be out January 1. Eviction proceedings will start January 2. It sounds like daughter and SiL have no difficulty using others. I would not continue to enable their codependency.

3. Make dad a budget. No more handouts. Car battery dies? Too bad. No wheels until the next check

4. Set up a cooking schedule. Everyone cooks for the family 2x per week with what is in the larder.

5. Or, put a lock on the fridge. Get dad his own college dorm size fridge which he stocks himself. Cook omly for you and wife.

Set this all up without rancor. If you want to run a boarding house, charge rent so you won't feel so used. If you don't charge rent, stop providing all this free service.

As a lot of us have said, "Only you have the power to change your life". You can take care of your dad without having him live with you. Get him into an assisted living studio apartment. They have transportation so he won't need his car which he can't afford anyway. Find a rent-by-the-month or week and pay say, 3 months rent and tell the rest of the free loaders that is their new home. After that it is up to them. Only you can take your life back. I recommend counseling for your and your wife so you will have the strength to do this.

Your life sounds positively H3LL-ish, LW. You must do what is best for you. Don't worry about what 'they' will think. You don't have that much time left on earth and it shouldn't be spent in misery with awful people.

tg, a couple things - they're getting along well, as do children on visits with non-custodial parents. That parent doesn't make them do homework, clean their rooms or eat their broccoli. it's an artificial situation.

What is of concern is that SIL doesn't have any interest in the responsibilities of co-habiting with others, doesn't have interest in finding a new residence. So if he's not inclined to mow a lawn or pick up after the dog, this is not a man who'll be taking on all the other chores (and expenses) of a house. I know you're wanting them in their own house for financial reasons, but I think you'd be well served by re-adjusting your idea here. I think you'll be called upon when those unexpected house expenses hit, or to help with repairs. I really think these two need to make a baby step from the cushy nest to an apartment with fixed costs and someone else to do the repairs. In this case, rent money isn't being thrown away, but a sound investment in helping them grow up without you always being the safety net.

As for your dad- discretionary spending like food for hunting, is his to come up with. You're covering the major stuff.

Yeah, I'd get daughter and SIL out as soon as possible. For so many reasons.

My wife is a saint! Go back 3 years when she promised my mom that we would care for my dad, my mom did not ask my sister, she asked my wife whom she always treated as a daughter not a daughter in law. Go back 5 years when We had to care for my wife's sister with brain cancer. We moved her in and cared for her until her death and at the same time flying back and forth across the country taking care of my wife's brother who we had to put in a home with his major stroke (I still care for remotely, managing his health, finance and living status). So we are the last stand I guess.
It is just difficult. We financially stable to some degree. We both work and I work multiple jobs. We plan and manage our money unlike other people.
I am the nice guy who cant say no. When I do get made 2 things happen, I usually blow up for a few seconds then I get quiet, if I am quiet that is not a good sign. Most everyone has figured that one out.
I just hate having to be quiet in my own home. We have made it very nice the exact way we like it and I want it to be an inviting place for all my family. I just don't like having to share all my personal space.
My dad is not well off financially, that is not the issue, it is my duty to take care of him and I am OK with that. It is just there is not much of a give back. In some ways yes, we had access to all the times with the house which we divided up between the kids but I still had to store it all and bring it in to my house.
Our home is pretty much my wife's dream home and we have made it that way. It is tough for her having it change. Next week we start on a sun room for her so she has a place to go. The sad part is I have to tell everyone this is HER room not for everyone else. So she is on board with all of this and just as frustrated as I.
I do use that as a place to vent. It is the only place I can. For us to talk we have to go out and then it is the only topic of conversation. It is hard to entertain now due to dogs, and others. We used to have parties and entertain frequently now it is difficult as dad tends to sit in the middle and tell stories. So we don't have friends over except by the pool in the summer. And that pains me as I love to entertain.
The SIL has no intention to look for a place. We fear this will be long term, in 6 years of marriage they have only lived on their own for a year and a half, the rest with his parents or a buddy. He has the best of both worlds... all bases are covered. I am trying hard not to make it easy for him. But winter is coming and I am sure no movement on the home front will happen. My daughter will be 30 soon and no house or kids are in the forefront... That pains me greatly as he is holding her back......
So all in all I am OK, frustrated, trying to remain calm...... have to buy a battery for dads car because his is dead......(he wont have the money in his account in time. Yet again I have to come to the rescue..... Make dinner tonight, just once a week it would be nice if someone made dinner for me (besides having to make reservations and go out and pay for it). yes, trying to remain calm..... maybe I need yoga..........