Has anyone experienced being in the sandwich generation?

I have to agree with mom2mom. Their truck, their expense. They already are getting lots of freebies. I hope you are not paying for the repairs.

tg - Your feelings of guilt about so many things seem to be what is driving your choices.You would benefit from dealing with those. You owe yourself and your wife a decent life before you owe anyone else anything. Your guilt might be better placed there.

Wait a minute... you sold (actually, since they haven't paid you, you gave) them a truck. Are you saying that you are planning on paying for repairs? As the owners of the truck, they now enjoy all rights to and use of the truck. Guess what, that includes the repair bill. Why should you pay for repairs for their truck? They should be able to afford it with all of that rent they are not paying.

SILs truck broke down (my old truck) Never had these issues before I sold it, I should have traded it in. Anyway, took it to the repair shop, wouldn't make it having it towed to get repairs. I have a feeling it wont be cheap, now I feel bad it was my truck giving him problems. One step forward 2 steps back....

The vacation is over. Dad came home over the weekend. Things are somewhat OK but getting back to normal. The cologne... ugh, kills me. The smacking and sucking of teeth during dinner and the comments on everything said... Gee other than that....... He takes my paper before I can read it, brings it back late Sunday night. Doesn't leave his dog out or feed him unless he is told. This car is still packed withe everything he took to camp, even the guns which I have to get out today and put in the safe. ( I am sure they never left the case anyway at camp.)
Oh well..... it is going to be a long winter......... I plan to ask him to help with some of the finishing on the addition but I dread the thought.... Once I start that will be all he talks about. Waiting for the book to arrive.

TG so glad you got to have some time with just the 4 of you. It is difficult to have a sensible productive conversation when someone else keeps butting in no matter how well meaning they might be. Personally, I don't see any harm in helping out with a down payment as long as it is money that was saved specifically for that purpose years ago. Where I live it is almost impossible for young people to buy their own home without parental support because house prices are so stupidly high. And rent. So not at all unusual for them to stay at home awhile. They just need to pull their own weight and act like roommates not young children. But it should not be something that is expected. And sounds like progress is being made all round. Well done!

tg - the boundaries book is good. A free ride is not good for kids. It builds their self respect and self confidence to pay their own way and it is a reality of life. You can draw some boundaries re your dad too to protect your own and your and wife's couple time. It sounds like you need to.

Mom raises an interesting question. I don't recall the reason your daughter and SIL moved in, but perhaps it was related to the fact that he's not the most stellar husband nor the most motivated. Perhaps your daughter had become weary of trying to motivate him. Or perhaps I'm just reading too much into the situation.

If someone is living rent free...no housing expenses whatsoever... and can't put any money away, they will never be able to afford to pay a mortgage (or even rent, for that matter). If I didn't have to pay for housing, I would have $12,000 cash socked away after only 6 months. Where does their money go? Do they have incomes?

I guess what I am trying to say is that my B.S. meter is going off. They won't be able to buy a house, even with the down payments you seem to be willing to make. So, waiting for a day that will never come is just a waste. Send them out now and let them figure out the world for themselves.

Lo and behold the SIL gave e money for the truck yesterday! Finlay we are getting somewhere. I guess it was a long time coming but we are now up to date. As for them buying a house, we have down money for them, I am not buying them a house. That money was put aside long ago.
Dinners have been nice lately without dad interjecting, able to talk. I hate to say it but it has been the only time the 4 of us could talk without comments.
Now I believe the light is going on that they see what we are dealing with. Still does not make up for lost time.
Dad is expected home this weekend so my quiet time is over. Funny how one person makes a difference. As far as booting dad out or making him pay rent that cant happen. Its my deal I have to deal with. The kids on the other hand that is different. January they will have t start paying rent. That will put a fire under them to get moving. No more free rides. Waiting for the Boundaries book to come in.

"If wishes were horses then beggers would ride" comes to mind.

"Hoping for", " wishing that".....please listen to yourself. TG.

It was a huge mistake for you to agree to either Dad or Daughter and SIL moving in without " terms" and requirements that need to be met.

In your shoes, i would get myself to a lawyer and set up a contract for room and partial board for Dad, as he might require Medicaid in the future.

I would have a rental agreement drawn up for Dd and SiL to sign, one that is enforceable.

tg, when you are out to dinner, tell daughter there are no free rides in life. Tell her from now on, starting with the next payday, she either pays for the vehicle or loses it. Kids don't know what it costs to keep a roof over their head. Tell her the amounts you pay each month for a mortgage, electric, gas, phone, cable, water, taxes and insurance. Write all that down and hand her the piece of paper and watch her eyes fly open. Then ask her "What is your fair share?" If she can't do the math, do it for her. Total divided by number of people.
So if it is $2000 a month and there are 5 of you, it's $400 per person per month. (or $100 a week/person). Then say "As a responsible adult, you need to hold up your fair share, starting now." You know what? They will move out, because they think they can live cheaper somewhere else. Sure, she will be angry; life's lessons are not pleasant. But twenty years down the road, she will be telling her kids the same thing.

CLOSE TO APPLYING FOR A MORTGAGE? EXCUSES, EXCUSES, EXCUSES! DON'T FALL FOR THAT CRAP! Nobody getsca mortgage, without significant money down, this day and age! Please tell us you are not footing the bill for the down payment! They will never appreciate the satisfaction of achieving this on their own, and then when the going gets tough, they could so easily walk away and default on the mortgage, and you will be out the money! Make um work for it, but not in your house! They are never going to grow up, if they don't have to!

Gosh, I remember having to scrimp and save 5 thousand dollars for our first home, and we had 4 kids to support! We sure did love that little house though! House proud we were! Fixing it up, and selling it for good profit to buy our next home, nothing more satisfying than to earn your way through life! Don't do it, or you will be the one investing all your time and money into that too! They gotta work for it! You know this!

TG, you mentioned that he would be more than willing to take your money towards the purchase of a home, did I understand that correctly? Are you actually planning on helping them to purchase a home? Now where is the lesson in that? From what you've said before, he can't even afford to fix his truck until payday, so where are they getting the money for the down-payment? Yes, there are times when a parent can help, when financial problems arise and such, but to put money down on a house, that they haven't even worked towards seems silly, as how do they come to ever work hard enough themselves, to truly appreciate their own hard work and self sacrifice, like most of us did when we bought our own homes? It seems to me that you are doing them a disservice, constantly bailing them out! When you want some bad enough, you work hard for it! My daughter and her new hubby have saved nearly 10 thousand dollars in the past year, saving up for a house, and they currently rent a house, and have 2 car payments too!

You are a very sweet and caring man, but those kids are walking all over you, and you need to put a stop to it! You speak of teaching him lessons, that he should be able to figure out for himself, like the care of his own Dog, closing doors, helping out? Really? How old is this guy? These are life lessons he should have learned by age 10, but even if he didn't, they are common sense type things! He's taking extreme advantage of you, and I say it's time to put the boot in his backside, and get serious! He's a grown man for goodness sake, and you're treating him like a child!! And also, he should get rid of the dog, if he can't take care of it, he shouldn't own one!

I guess I'm just getting frustrated FOR YOU! With you having your Dad there living with you, it's definitely time for the kids to be out of your house and learning how to survive in their marriage, and on their own! Let them struggle a little bit, they will appreciate things more that way! Kriminey!

We plan to take her out on this weekend while he is working, she seems to open up more when he is not around. Hes a nice guy just not terribly motivated, I have to lower my expectations so I am not disappointed.
Its been nice with dad on vacation, no loud TV, can talk at dinner without Cliff Clavin spouting knowledge on every subject and noise at dinner. Help with dishes after dinner was nice.
I will take my little victories one at a time for now. We refinanced last night so maybe she will see that it can be done.
Hoping after the new year they will get a place. I will start more dialog this weekend. Have to realized that I am dad and I know nothing so I will hold my tongue.
I will check out the book today.

TG, take your daughter out to dinner, alone, at a quiet restaurant. Ask her if she's thought about a separation from this bum.

Read the book "Boundaries" by Henry Cloud. You need to set them. That is, if you really want to.

All good ideas, trying to implement them, yes it is true that I do like having my daughter around. She has gone back to church on her own without SIL (keeps her grandfather company). I think it is great she has done that and told her I am proud of her for doing something for herself. I love getting my girls home, it is just handful with the SIL and his dog. I have been trying to coach him on ways to be a better husband. His parents are laid back hippy style. What ever happens happens. Me not so much. You need a plan in life and that is what I have tried to instill in my girls., Plans always change but you need a direction. I am trying to help him with that while not losing my mind in the process. He is like my dad in where the situational awareness button is not activated all the time.
Its just very stressful. As far as a timeline we talked about a place available for rent for them ans they said they are close to being able to apply for a mortgage. My plan is this weekend while he is a t work to get more if a dialog with her on what the plans are. He wont allow help but she is open to it (I am sure he will allow our money to help them). I have been putting my foot down a lot more but it doesn't seem to help. SO today I will have some more frank discussions with him on how things work around here. Close doors, manage your dog, help out when you say you will. Trying to be the dad of someone who needs a dad. (He has one who just does what ever). We were joking about grandparent names in the future... I chose "The Colonel"..... What too much?

Stacey's comments reminded me of something else. SIL didn't become a mooch overnight, nor did he become manipulative overnight. He has the opportunity now to exploit those deficits, but I'm guessing that your daughter had trouble with him before they moved in with you and your wife. Maybe that's why she and he haven't got their own house; he may have played her when the two of them lived alone.

Could it be that a little teeny part of you likes having them around behaving like irresponsible teenagers? It is hard letting them go in some ways because you will see less of them and have to move on again from the daily "Daddy" role. But you know what everyone needs really and that is for them to grow up and behave like adults. They can't do that properly living with you. It's time now to set a date. You could maybe say it this way to them as well so they understand that you love them but that they need to "spread their wings and fly". Literally. Out of your house!

I think you are trying to avoid drama and hurt feelings, but what about your own feelings and those of your dear wife? If you stand up for yourself by setting firm boundaries all the users will undoubtedly feel hurt and threatened, especially since everyone is used to you backing down. You mustn't continue to wait for them to step up, I really don't think they have it in them.

TG, I like you, I really do, but you are allowing this behavior and it will Never Change, unless you Change it, DRASTICALLY, and QUICKLY!

SET A DATE, for God's Sake, You must be moved out by February 1st, 2017! This will give them one last Holiday in your gracious home, and 2 Months to save the 1st/last/deposit on a Rental Apartment! This will also allow them to address any flaws in their credit, by being productive worker bee's, and paying their rent on time, Somewhere Else! You are doing them no favors, allowing them to walk all over you, and disrespecting your household! Do you actually think they are Saving money for a house, if he can't even buy parts for his broken down truck? And Smoke in your new Sunroom? GET THE HECK OUT OF HERE! I can't believe you didn't punch him on that one!

I have 4 kids 32-36, and a SIL, and 2 DIL's, and I love all my in laws, but never would one of them ever even think of taking advantage of our home, heck, they don't even open our fridge without asking first, even though I've said multiple times, "help yourself"! This SIL of yours is a real piece of work, and the sooner you get him out, the better! He isn't being allowed to be a man, and maybe he's never been taught how to be one, but he's a married man now, and it's time for him to get on the fast track, and if your daughter wants to jump on there with him, her too!

That's actually what I'm afraid of what's happening at your house, after reading all of your posts, your daughter is afraid her husband cannot hold a candle to the man she grew up knowing and loving as her Daddy, and she is afraid! Afraid he won't be able to meet her expectations of what real man is supposed to be like, and she's hoping some of your own Manliness/husband material will rub off of you onto him, but clearly it's not working! I'm afraid its going to take some very tough love on this one, and Fast! And your daughter just might be afraid to leave with him, are you prepared for that, him goung but her staying? I mean in your estimation, just what is the state of their marriage, or are you fulfilling the majority of the manly role she was hoping for out of this marriage? You can always challenge them, and if it doesn't work out, as a Father I could understand you allowing your daughter to move back home, but never that SIL AGAIN! He doesn't respect you, and isn't trying to learn from you.

Forcing your daughter into seeing if this Guy, her Husband, the one she Chose, without the influence and the bail-out system you have in place, is what she truly wants in marriage will be the biggest and the best thing you will ever do for this young couple. I don't know how long the've been married, but it doesn't sound like they have had to work through some of those few tough issues, that we all had to make during our first few years of marriage, the adjustment period, that, or you have bailed them out on every little problem that they have faced together, and that is an injustice that this time, you will need to rectify! Don't bail them out! They are adults, married for goodness sake, through thick and thin and all that! Perhaps you are in the SIL's way, snd he is resenting you for it, and taking advantage because of it!

I know this is tough love coming from me! I'm certainly no perfect parent, and I have made plenty of mistakes, but having kids move home, once they moved out, isn't one of them!

Please, for your own health and sanity, help them to help themselves, or they will be stunted, and will never learn, which could put your daughter's marriage in peril!

TG, most people have an in-law or 2 or 10 like your SIL. The only way to deal with them is...a few hours at a pop. A holiday here, a Sunday dinner there.

Save your sanity and evict that self-centered moocher and your daughter and their dog. Now. This sh*t has run its course. And then some.

Don't let them snow you with tales of needing to save for a security deposit & 1st/last month's rent & need to find a place that will take their dog.

#1 - The amount of time they've been with you, they should have that saved. If they don't, not your problem. Their immaturity is their problem.

#2) - They could have saved 1.5 times that if Brokezilla quit smoking.

#3) - Even if they don't have a dime to their names(?), they can couch-surf someplace else. Anyplace else. If they are the pleasant, contributing roommates that they fancy themselves to be, then his parents or extended family or their friends will be thrilled to take them in. A win-win.

I know that you hesitate to put the hammer down on your daughter. But she's unrelentingly disrespectful of you and your wife. Takers take, no matter who's doing the giving. It's time to give someone (anyone) else the "opportunity" to do all the giving.

Also....why, exactly, are daughter and SIL so darn broke? They both work (I think). Even if their paychecks are unremarkable, their only overhead is dog food and cigarettes. The "no money" mantra doesn't add up. If you can't chalk it up to idiotic shopping and entertainment, there's a good chance you are propping up a drug or gambling addiction. (I sincerely hope not. But don't be naive. It can happen to anyone, anywhere.)

I think the SIL is pushing TG's buttons. The only healthy boundary with this freeloading clod having him move to his own place.

It sounds to me like SIL has no respect for TG because TG has been a pushover about the dogs, about his dad, about his daughter, etc. We teach people how to treat us and SIL may well be treating TG this way because he sees others doing it and getting away with it. SIL may also feel entitled to use the sunroom to smoke because TG accepts bad behavior from others in the household. TG will never get his house back until he establishes and **enforces** healthy boundaries.

TG, I think you know what our answers will be as to standing your ground. But it seems as if SIL is fighting back.

These kinds of family challenges are never going to be easy, nor will they be straightforward and immune from some slippage. Your earlier post was more positive, upbeat. Now I see you're kind of down again.

SIL is a big sponge, to put it bluntly. He's irresponsible, predatory, lazy and could be described by a lot of other unflattering adjectives, including arrogant, inconsiderate and irresponsible.

I honestly would give him the boot, even if it means he has to grow up and learn to be responsible for himself. I think as long as he's sponging off you and refusing to cooperate or help, you're going to be faced with the Russian progress philosophy - two steps forward and one step backward. He's literally a noose around your neck.

I don't recall if you daughter and SIL are making any efforts at all to move, but I think that is both the short term and long term solution to SIL's menacing behavior. You set down rules, he challenges and pushes back. Maybe this is a man thing and he needs to be the king of your castle?

I might even get some boxes, start packing, and put his stuff in the garage or even outside. And accompany it with a deadline.

As long as Mr. Sponge is living in your house, I think you're going to be faced with this King of the Castle issue.

Am I a bad parent /son for wanting my house back? Dad left for 2 weeks on vacation, hunting... yea! Still have 2 kids at home and 3 dogs....now dealing with SIL that does not get it. leaves doors open, lights on, puts dirty dishes in with the clean ones in the dishwasher after saying he would unload the dishwasher. We are putting sunroom on for and he asks if that will now be the smoking room? He smokes, we don't, yeah, I m spending north of 40K just so you can smoke in a nice warm place? I've abut had it. I give my nice warm sunny office to dad for his living room, I am in the basement office now and everyone leaves the basement garage door open and I get frozen out. His dog is on my couch.......... I talk, I ask, I leave notes....... I just want my house back.....

My father had to set a deadline to get my brother to move out. Took him 4 years but he bought himself a nice house with the rent-free money he had saved while living off my father. During that time, father suggested he contribute something toward the household expenses, which he never did, and he never did any household chores. My father is much happier with him gone.

It has been challenging but getting there. I have just had to realize that this is a long term project.
I make dinner for my wife and I, if anyone chooses to eat then that is fine. I have enough, any extra is leftovers for my lunch.
I don't make weekend breakfasts any longer. Tired of waiting for people to get up. I'm up at 5 AM, so coffee is on and I make breakfast for my wife and I.
Daughter and SIL took dad out for birthday dinner, was so nice to have dinner with my wife at home and able to talk. Outside of the daughters dog attacking dads dog and me just about having a heart attack it was a pleasant 90 minutes..... 90 minutes, that is all my wife and I got but we made the best of it.
Working and travel all week, made a crock pot dinner so my wife doesn't have to cook.
Kids are eating out more, that is a good thing. Everyone is on their own at this point. I have to stop caving to stress which is slowly killing me.
Not worrying about dad anymore, he does his thing. Although we had friends over this this weekend. He made the crack when they came in "oh you made dinner for me"? He is the first thing they see when coming in the door (the room he is in is off the main door. He always has to make it about him. I did finally invite him to join us then had to change many topics to keep the conversation about others and not him.
He is supposed to go to my sisters for thanksgiving and hunting. I hope to great weather so he can go. We plan to have my 86 yo neighbor over and her 2 kids from out of state. Nothing big just us and one daughter and the neighbors.
So time to focus on my wife and I and everyone else can do what ever! Done worrying.

TG, so happy to read your last 2 posts. You are on a good course. It took a lot of "working up to this" for you -- and here's the payoff. Stay firm and stay sane! (You need to be This Guy full-time. No more stewing and no more "reaction mode." Assert yourself 100% of the time. That's the only way it will sink in with this crowd.) We're rooting for you.

TG, congratulations! I'm sure that step forward was a hard one, but the rewards should support and encourage you. Hang in there!