Has anyone experienced being in the sandwich generation?

I think the SIL is pushing TG's buttons. The only healthy boundary with this freeloading clod having him move to his own place.

TG, most people have an in-law or 2 or 10 like your SIL. The only way to deal with them is...a few hours at a pop. A holiday here, a Sunday dinner there.

Save your sanity and evict that self-centered moocher and your daughter and their dog. Now. This sh*t has run its course. And then some.

Don't let them snow you with tales of needing to save for a security deposit & 1st/last month's rent & need to find a place that will take their dog.

#1 - The amount of time they've been with you, they should have that saved. If they don't, not your problem. Their immaturity is their problem.

#2) - They could have saved 1.5 times that if Brokezilla quit smoking.

#3) - Even if they don't have a dime to their names(?), they can couch-surf someplace else. Anyplace else. If they are the pleasant, contributing roommates that they fancy themselves to be, then his parents or extended family or their friends will be thrilled to take them in. A win-win.

I know that you hesitate to put the hammer down on your daughter. But she's unrelentingly disrespectful of you and your wife. Takers take, no matter who's doing the giving. It's time to give someone (anyone) else the "opportunity" to do all the giving.

Also....why, exactly, are daughter and SIL so darn broke? They both work (I think). Even if their paychecks are unremarkable, their only overhead is dog food and cigarettes. The "no money" mantra doesn't add up. If you can't chalk it up to idiotic shopping and entertainment, there's a good chance you are propping up a drug or gambling addiction. (I sincerely hope not. But don't be naive. It can happen to anyone, anywhere.)

TG, I like you, I really do, but you are allowing this behavior and it will Never Change, unless you Change it, DRASTICALLY, and QUICKLY!

SET A DATE, for God's Sake, You must be moved out by February 1st, 2017! This will give them one last Holiday in your gracious home, and 2 Months to save the 1st/last/deposit on a Rental Apartment! This will also allow them to address any flaws in their credit, by being productive worker bee's, and paying their rent on time, Somewhere Else! You are doing them no favors, allowing them to walk all over you, and disrespecting your household! Do you actually think they are Saving money for a house, if he can't even buy parts for his broken down truck? And Smoke in your new Sunroom? GET THE HECK OUT OF HERE! I can't believe you didn't punch him on that one!

I have 4 kids 32-36, and a SIL, and 2 DIL's, and I love all my in laws, but never would one of them ever even think of taking advantage of our home, heck, they don't even open our fridge without asking first, even though I've said multiple times, "help yourself"! This SIL of yours is a real piece of work, and the sooner you get him out, the better! He isn't being allowed to be a man, and maybe he's never been taught how to be one, but he's a married man now, and it's time for him to get on the fast track, and if your daughter wants to jump on there with him, her too!

That's actually what I'm afraid of what's happening at your house, after reading all of your posts, your daughter is afraid her husband cannot hold a candle to the man she grew up knowing and loving as her Daddy, and she is afraid! Afraid he won't be able to meet her expectations of what real man is supposed to be like, and she's hoping some of your own Manliness/husband material will rub off of you onto him, but clearly it's not working! I'm afraid its going to take some very tough love on this one, and Fast! And your daughter just might be afraid to leave with him, are you prepared for that, him goung but her staying? I mean in your estimation, just what is the state of their marriage, or are you fulfilling the majority of the manly role she was hoping for out of this marriage? You can always challenge them, and if it doesn't work out, as a Father I could understand you allowing your daughter to move back home, but never that SIL AGAIN! He doesn't respect you, and isn't trying to learn from you.

Forcing your daughter into seeing if this Guy, her Husband, the one she Chose, without the influence and the bail-out system you have in place, is what she truly wants in marriage will be the biggest and the best thing you will ever do for this young couple. I don't know how long the've been married, but it doesn't sound like they have had to work through some of those few tough issues, that we all had to make during our first few years of marriage, the adjustment period, that, or you have bailed them out on every little problem that they have faced together, and that is an injustice that this time, you will need to rectify! Don't bail them out! They are adults, married for goodness sake, through thick and thin and all that! Perhaps you are in the SIL's way, snd he is resenting you for it, and taking advantage because of it!

I know this is tough love coming from me! I'm certainly no perfect parent, and I have made plenty of mistakes, but having kids move home, once they moved out, isn't one of them!

Please, for your own health and sanity, help them to help themselves, or they will be stunted, and will never learn, which could put your daughter's marriage in peril!

I think you are trying to avoid drama and hurt feelings, but what about your own feelings and those of your dear wife? If you stand up for yourself by setting firm boundaries all the users will undoubtedly feel hurt and threatened, especially since everyone is used to you backing down. You mustn't continue to wait for them to step up, I really don't think they have it in them.

Could it be that a little teeny part of you likes having them around behaving like irresponsible teenagers? It is hard letting them go in some ways because you will see less of them and have to move on again from the daily "Daddy" role. But you know what everyone needs really and that is for them to grow up and behave like adults. They can't do that properly living with you. It's time now to set a date. You could maybe say it this way to them as well so they understand that you love them but that they need to "spread their wings and fly". Literally. Out of your house!

Stacey's comments reminded me of something else. SIL didn't become a mooch overnight, nor did he become manipulative overnight. He has the opportunity now to exploit those deficits, but I'm guessing that your daughter had trouble with him before they moved in with you and your wife. Maybe that's why she and he haven't got their own house; he may have played her when the two of them lived alone.

All good ideas, trying to implement them, yes it is true that I do like having my daughter around. She has gone back to church on her own without SIL (keeps her grandfather company). I think it is great she has done that and told her I am proud of her for doing something for herself. I love getting my girls home, it is just handful with the SIL and his dog. I have been trying to coach him on ways to be a better husband. His parents are laid back hippy style. What ever happens happens. Me not so much. You need a plan in life and that is what I have tried to instill in my girls., Plans always change but you need a direction. I am trying to help him with that while not losing my mind in the process. He is like my dad in where the situational awareness button is not activated all the time.
Its just very stressful. As far as a timeline we talked about a place available for rent for them ans they said they are close to being able to apply for a mortgage. My plan is this weekend while he is a t work to get more if a dialog with her on what the plans are. He wont allow help but she is open to it (I am sure he will allow our money to help them). I have been putting my foot down a lot more but it doesn't seem to help. SO today I will have some more frank discussions with him on how things work around here. Close doors, manage your dog, help out when you say you will. Trying to be the dad of someone who needs a dad. (He has one who just does what ever). We were joking about grandparent names in the future... I chose "The Colonel"..... What too much?

Read the book "Boundaries" by Henry Cloud. You need to set them. That is, if you really want to.

TG, take your daughter out to dinner, alone, at a quiet restaurant. Ask her if she's thought about a separation from this bum.

We plan to take her out on this weekend while he is working, she seems to open up more when he is not around. Hes a nice guy just not terribly motivated, I have to lower my expectations so I am not disappointed.
Its been nice with dad on vacation, no loud TV, can talk at dinner without Cliff Clavin spouting knowledge on every subject and noise at dinner. Help with dishes after dinner was nice.
I will take my little victories one at a time for now. We refinanced last night so maybe she will see that it can be done.
Hoping after the new year they will get a place. I will start more dialog this weekend. Have to realized that I am dad and I know nothing so I will hold my tongue.
I will check out the book today.

TG, you mentioned that he would be more than willing to take your money towards the purchase of a home, did I understand that correctly? Are you actually planning on helping them to purchase a home? Now where is the lesson in that? From what you've said before, he can't even afford to fix his truck until payday, so where are they getting the money for the down-payment? Yes, there are times when a parent can help, when financial problems arise and such, but to put money down on a house, that they haven't even worked towards seems silly, as how do they come to ever work hard enough themselves, to truly appreciate their own hard work and self sacrifice, like most of us did when we bought our own homes? It seems to me that you are doing them a disservice, constantly bailing them out! When you want some bad enough, you work hard for it! My daughter and her new hubby have saved nearly 10 thousand dollars in the past year, saving up for a house, and they currently rent a house, and have 2 car payments too!

You are a very sweet and caring man, but those kids are walking all over you, and you need to put a stop to it! You speak of teaching him lessons, that he should be able to figure out for himself, like the care of his own Dog, closing doors, helping out? Really? How old is this guy? These are life lessons he should have learned by age 10, but even if he didn't, they are common sense type things! He's taking extreme advantage of you, and I say it's time to put the boot in his backside, and get serious! He's a grown man for goodness sake, and you're treating him like a child!! And also, he should get rid of the dog, if he can't take care of it, he shouldn't own one!

I guess I'm just getting frustrated FOR YOU! With you having your Dad there living with you, it's definitely time for the kids to be out of your house and learning how to survive in their marriage, and on their own! Let them struggle a little bit, they will appreciate things more that way! Kriminey!

CLOSE TO APPLYING FOR A MORTGAGE? EXCUSES, EXCUSES, EXCUSES! DON'T FALL FOR THAT CRAP! Nobody getsca mortgage, without significant money down, this day and age! Please tell us you are not footing the bill for the down payment! They will never appreciate the satisfaction of achieving this on their own, and then when the going gets tough, they could so easily walk away and default on the mortgage, and you will be out the money! Make um work for it, but not in your house! They are never going to grow up, if they don't have to!

Gosh, I remember having to scrimp and save 5 thousand dollars for our first home, and we had 4 kids to support! We sure did love that little house though! House proud we were! Fixing it up, and selling it for good profit to buy our next home, nothing more satisfying than to earn your way through life! Don't do it, or you will be the one investing all your time and money into that too! They gotta work for it! You know this!

tg, when you are out to dinner, tell daughter there are no free rides in life. Tell her from now on, starting with the next payday, she either pays for the vehicle or loses it. Kids don't know what it costs to keep a roof over their head. Tell her the amounts you pay each month for a mortgage, electric, gas, phone, cable, water, taxes and insurance. Write all that down and hand her the piece of paper and watch her eyes fly open. Then ask her "What is your fair share?" If she can't do the math, do it for her. Total divided by number of people.
So if it is $2000 a month and there are 5 of you, it's $400 per person per month. (or $100 a week/person). Then say "As a responsible adult, you need to hold up your fair share, starting now." You know what? They will move out, because they think they can live cheaper somewhere else. Sure, she will be angry; life's lessons are not pleasant. But twenty years down the road, she will be telling her kids the same thing.

"If wishes were horses then beggers would ride" comes to mind.

"Hoping for", " wishing that".....please listen to yourself. TG.

It was a huge mistake for you to agree to either Dad or Daughter and SIL moving in without " terms" and requirements that need to be met.

In your shoes, i would get myself to a lawyer and set up a contract for room and partial board for Dad, as he might require Medicaid in the future.

I would have a rental agreement drawn up for Dd and SiL to sign, one that is enforceable.

Lo and behold the SIL gave e money for the truck yesterday! Finlay we are getting somewhere. I guess it was a long time coming but we are now up to date. As for them buying a house, we have down money for them, I am not buying them a house. That money was put aside long ago.
Dinners have been nice lately without dad interjecting, able to talk. I hate to say it but it has been the only time the 4 of us could talk without comments.
Now I believe the light is going on that they see what we are dealing with. Still does not make up for lost time.
Dad is expected home this weekend so my quiet time is over. Funny how one person makes a difference. As far as booting dad out or making him pay rent that cant happen. Its my deal I have to deal with. The kids on the other hand that is different. January they will have t start paying rent. That will put a fire under them to get moving. No more free rides. Waiting for the Boundaries book to come in.

If someone is living rent free...no housing expenses whatsoever... and can't put any money away, they will never be able to afford to pay a mortgage (or even rent, for that matter). If I didn't have to pay for housing, I would have $12,000 cash socked away after only 6 months. Where does their money go? Do they have incomes?

I guess what I am trying to say is that my B.S. meter is going off. They won't be able to buy a house, even with the down payments you seem to be willing to make. So, waiting for a day that will never come is just a waste. Send them out now and let them figure out the world for themselves.

Mom raises an interesting question. I don't recall the reason your daughter and SIL moved in, but perhaps it was related to the fact that he's not the most stellar husband nor the most motivated. Perhaps your daughter had become weary of trying to motivate him. Or perhaps I'm just reading too much into the situation.

tg - the boundaries book is good. A free ride is not good for kids. It builds their self respect and self confidence to pay their own way and it is a reality of life. You can draw some boundaries re your dad too to protect your own and your and wife's couple time. It sounds like you need to.

TG so glad you got to have some time with just the 4 of you. It is difficult to have a sensible productive conversation when someone else keeps butting in no matter how well meaning they might be. Personally, I don't see any harm in helping out with a down payment as long as it is money that was saved specifically for that purpose years ago. Where I live it is almost impossible for young people to buy their own home without parental support because house prices are so stupidly high. And rent. So not at all unusual for them to stay at home awhile. They just need to pull their own weight and act like roommates not young children. But it should not be something that is expected. And sounds like progress is being made all round. Well done!

The vacation is over. Dad came home over the weekend. Things are somewhat OK but getting back to normal. The cologne... ugh, kills me. The smacking and sucking of teeth during dinner and the comments on everything said... Gee other than that....... He takes my paper before I can read it, brings it back late Sunday night. Doesn't leave his dog out or feed him unless he is told. This car is still packed withe everything he took to camp, even the guns which I have to get out today and put in the safe. ( I am sure they never left the case anyway at camp.)
Oh well..... it is going to be a long winter......... I plan to ask him to help with some of the finishing on the addition but I dread the thought.... Once I start that will be all he talks about. Waiting for the book to arrive.

SILs truck broke down (my old truck) Never had these issues before I sold it, I should have traded it in. Anyway, took it to the repair shop, wouldn't make it having it towed to get repairs. I have a feeling it wont be cheap, now I feel bad it was my truck giving him problems. One step forward 2 steps back....

Wait a minute... you sold (actually, since they haven't paid you, you gave) them a truck. Are you saying that you are planning on paying for repairs? As the owners of the truck, they now enjoy all rights to and use of the truck. Guess what, that includes the repair bill. Why should you pay for repairs for their truck? They should be able to afford it with all of that rent they are not paying.

I have to agree with mom2mom. Their truck, their expense. They already are getting lots of freebies. I hope you are not paying for the repairs.

tg - Your feelings of guilt about so many things seem to be what is driving your choices.You would benefit from dealing with those. You owe yourself and your wife a decent life before you owe anyone else anything. Your guilt might be better placed there.

TG, consider us your Cliff Notes until the book arrives. Unload the guns from the car, leave the rest for Dad to unload. If he's physically able to drive and hunt, he can unload the car. Your newspaper is your paper - he can either wait till you're done, or get his own paper. If the "kids" own the truck, the repairs are theirs. And please let go of feeling bad - you probably took good care of the truck. If they haven't paid you yet, then they can darn well pay the repairs as the cost of using the truck.
And about Dad helping with the finish work - there's a cost to this finish work regardless of who does the work. Either you pay the contractor in money, or you pay with your frustration etc. at your father doing this work. You need to quietly and realistically weigh the pros and cons, but since you're already dreading it, I'd say you already are. If you're doing this because you want him to have something to do, accept that you're signing on for the whole package.

For your SIL, I hope there is bus service in your community. How are they going to get a mortgage if they can't even pay for car repairs?? Talk to your therapist about why you need to fix everything for everybody. Why do you need to be the one doing all the giving?

Just read this thread. Start setting boundaries....there are enough people here with good advice - heed it and you will get your life back. You have family who walk all over you.

TG -some thoughts. Sounds like you had a lovely respite while your Dad was at camp. Now he's back you are reminded of the difficulties of living with him. Is there truly no option of some place nearby where he can live seperately? Maybe an apartment complex specifically for the elderly? I realise that just because he went "hunting" doesn't necessarily mean he is capable of unloading the car by himself. But if he is physically able to, he may still need prompting that it needs to be done, clothes washed and all that. Does NOT mean you have to do it, although lending a hand and having a chat about the trip while you do it might be nice. Some of the other things are the problems of living with a not ideal roommate and likely exacerbated by his age. Maybe you could get your newspaper online at least for awihile until he sorts out his own. If there is no choice but him to live with you then try hard to focus on the positives and treasure him while you still have him. And try also to remember that if you spend everything you have on daughter and SIL, you and wife may end up in the same position as your father. I'm sorry the truck broke down but it is their expense. I borrowed my sisters old car, prior to her selling it, for 6m while our family was back in the States on sabbatical. During that time it broke down. We repaired it without question. And I put in a lot of elbow grease at the end of having it to get it looking ready to sell. It was the least I could do after the favour of her supplying me with a car. Same goes for SIL and daughter. Hang in there. You're doing great. Just keep on setting boundaries and it will pay off in the end.

I am trying, last night I told the SIL he was in charge of dinner. apparently made it just fine. This week busy week for me at nights. But going to bed the garage door is open and all my heat going out the door. My office is in the basement so it get very cold very quick. No-one seems to mind leaving doors open, lights on etc..... SILs truck is in the shop, I have to coordinate getting it fixed as he has no motivation in getting it done..... Tried to talk to him to buy a new one, not sure why he cant even focus on getting a new vehicle. They make plenty of money, I am not sure why they cant, they have a cell phone bill and health insurance and car insurance, that is it, no rent, no electric, no cable or internet..... aragh! Makes having dad here a walk in the park.

I am trying to be calm but I come home after a class, the garage door is wide open,! They wonder why I am grumpy. I walk in to 2 huge boxes of clothes in the entry way, I get it they need to have winter clothes. Now he is out doing an errand, He said the boxes will be out today, why not do it now? I am just tired of my house looking like crap....... I cant entertain anymore it frustrates me. Trying to set boundaries, not working very well.

TG, the boundaries aren't working because you need to start some tough love. No, you don't have to coordinate the repairs (and pay for them). You let it sit and let them figure it out. When he puts clothing boxes in the entry, you tell him to move them to the bedroom, out of sight, now before he runs the errand. If the garage door is consistently being left open, then they don't get to park in the garage.

But this is all a bandaid because the larger issue is they need to be out on their own, being full fledged adults.

An analogy for this - you have this overgrown rose bush, hasn't been pruned in a couple years. You start cutting it back, while also thinning the little stems and being sure to cut each stem at the correct angle and then sealing that stem so the cutter bees don't get into it. You're constantly battling the big stems with thorns and can't see into the plant well enough for all the overgrowth. But....if you take the big loppers and chop all the stems down to 1/3 the height, then you can take the little pruners and do the fine detail work easily. Sometimes you have to have a full out change because small actions don't work.