I would consult an elder law attorney who has experience with VA benefits and see about getting a caregiver agreement drawn up. In a Fiduciary capacity you will want to consult an attorney.
Go see an elder law attny and get a room and board agreement drawn up. You will have to do some research and find some comparable rooms for rent in your area. You will have to print out that info and take a median figure. Having your mom in your house will increase water, elec, gas and consumables such and paper products, detergent, food, etc. She could even pay a proportion of you mortgage/rent. Don't even think of trying to get paid for your time as a care giver. Just be happy with this agreement as it will make your life easier. Getting paid for your time requires more paperwork than I think most people are prepared to do. A room and board agreement written up by an estate/elder law attny will hold up under medicaid lookback.
Yes as long as its not high er then most borders pay and its agreeable by her while fitting in her income food lodging travel if you drive her to hair dressers and so on doctor but be as low as you can as they are home to be loved and enjoy there last days not be a big sourse of cash for family if you can live with out the rent great if not try to go at a low rate
I am the Fiduciary for my mother's VA benefits and the money MUST be used for her care. You would need to consult an elder law attorney to see how to draw up papers so the money could be paid to you as rent. My mother is in assisted living so I have to show that all the money is paid to her facility.
I am not saying her last days should be a source of cash An agreement will do two things: Ease your financial pain. Spend down her money legally.If she is headed for NH anyway and will eventually go on medicaid, why give it to the feds? Either you get or they get it. Your choice.
As the fiduciary you need to consult an attorney. Is mom competent to sign an agreement? That will simplify things.
The funds must be used for her care, and reasonable room and board is a part of that equation. Just as a nursing home provides a roof and food, so do you.
Remember that if you reimburse yourself, you will need to oay taxes on that money, as income. And get an eldercare agreement and check with your VA rep
Income taxes are not charged on items reimbursed as long as documentation can be provided. To pay yourselves for care, would be taxable and social security, disability etc, so an eldercare agreement must be in place or will be considered a gift and subject to VA and Medicaid penalties.
Mother lives with my brother, in a separate apartment, which is accessible only from his home--he does benefit financially and I know they have never legally agreed to anything. None of the rest of us sibs have any problem with it, but to be on the safe side, you probably should consult an attorney. I know to a lot of people it seems horrible to take money for the care you give....but everyone has a different take on that. Brother does the lions share of caring for mother and if he's making a few bucks from her---he deserves it! If we had to pay outside help to do what he does, she couldn't afford it! I don't know the legalities of what they are doing--but mother is never going into a facility and worrying about the few bucks she has left---we just don't.
Just a comment on spending now or giving it up later. I was talking to a woman who didn't want to buy an assistive item that could have been critical to keep her and her husband safe and at home longer. Main reason she didn't purchase- she wanted to "save her money for a nursing home". She gave up quality of life and staying at home longer now so that a nursing home could eat up their entire savings in short order sometime in the future. Still scratching my head on that.
don't say reimburse she will be paying for housing and paying for care. keep a log book of everything that you do all the things you have to pay for be very anal about it . make a shelf in the frig . give her a space for everything like a room mate. this country forgets that the is a life stealing job with no breaks. payee that are not related get paid. ask yourself this if she was live with any old people she would have to pay 1/3 for of everything so why are the loved one hold to the regard that must pay for everything. call the va and ask for your rights and responsibilities as a payee look though that book like your life depended on it and you dont understand some call in ask you will see one treat yourself not as family but as a payee and use that job to pay the bills that she is using so you can keep her a home with you. it is not income if she is just paying for her 1/3 of living cost in the money is not coming directly to your hand then you pay them write the checks to the light water and so forth.
your words 'a reasonable rent for her to stay in my house' suggest that you are thinking of your mother as a lodger, rather than as someone who is actually living (or coming to live) with you. So my question would be - is this intended to be a permanent arrangement or a temporary one? If it's going to be permanent and your mother is genuinely coming to live with you then of course your outgoings will increase but probably not by anything like as much as you think. Certainly, you can expect the expenses she incurs in the way of food and gas/electricity to be paid by her monies.But why charge her rent? Would you have rented the bedroom you are going to give her (or already do) to anybody else or are you/spouse just seeing this as a way to make money out of her? Sorry to be so blunt, but if that's the case then you might be doing her a greater favour by putting her into a care facility where people are paid to provide the care and you won't have to worry about the extra utility bills. My mother has lived with me for the past nine years - she has her own lounge, bedroom, and shower room and is immobile and requires professional carers who come in on a daily basis. I have compared my utility bills diligently with those I received prior to when she came to live with us and there's very little noticeable difference which is caused by her actual usage. Three people can live for not much more than two, so do be careful in apportioning rent, utility expenses etc. You should also remember that if you do charge her rent, you will become her landlord - and although I don't know where you live or what the law in your country is with regard to this issue, certainly in the UK, the Landlord and Tenant Act bestows tenants with certain rights and you would need to ensure that you provided her with those - i.e. you just can't move her out when you want, you can't expect her to pay for repairs or general maintenance and you should keep her 'quarters' that are being 'rented' in a well-maintained condition. I am urging caution here - wouldn't it be better just to accept her as a family member and then come to mutually satisfying arrangements, i.e. seeing whether she would like to help you out with improvements to your house as and when they are required rather than having your relationship on such a formal footing as you are considering.
If you are talking to me, I have taken care of 5 family member for over thirty and stayed home almost everyday of that because of the lack of family members help. Lets put it all on the table. most people will almost breakdown there body and mind taking care of loved ones when it comes down to it there is nothing wrong with helping each other why do people feel that it is okay to save the money on the back of one family member but when that person dies that the money should be split or just given to people that don't have the time to come by is say hi. Yes this is a job don't you forget that. The nursing home knows it a job, the eldercare community knows it and courts know it look at what a guardian makes that is not related. So yes i am saying have her pay her way that is what the money is given to her for. Oh you don't worried about everyone in agreement read your handbook and if it is law get it because your not going to get all you deserve. What in the h*ll will happen to you then they die how you get a job after 5/10 years in caring what do you write on your app to get that job, your reference in gone. really your weathered not in a good way in your savings are all gone and your mothers money WILL go to the bills that are owed. You will have nothing because you used your saving for what her money was given to her for, TO PAY HER WAY and yes that is what it is for not to save for a rainy day this is flood season and it will be until she is gone. good luck with that
Medina4 - I can understand your knee-jerk reaction to the financial question in association with caring for a parent. But, the simple reality is that not everyone has the capacity from a financial standpoint to absorb the additional living costs for another person (be it a relative, friend, etc.) without there being a way to offset this to a degree. I think the responses that suggest checking with an elder care attorney (if even that is able to be paid for out of pocket) are probably the most helpful here.
In support of Medina, I don't think her action was a knee-jerk one. I thought she posted a thoughtful delicately worded answer which hinted at, but didn't directly state, her feelings.
That is her right, just as it's your right to disagree with her.
There are some legal and financial issues here that could benefit from consultation with either an estate planning attorney, VA attorney specialist or tax specialist.
You're right though that these are good answers on which to focus. I'm sure a lot of posters are reading this and thinking of their own situations and whether or not they agree with the OP's approach. It's probably better to keep that out of the equation, as you more or less suggested.
Certainly if you weren't there, your mother would be having to pay for her room and board to whomever she stayed with. Also, if it were someone not related to you that you provided lodging, meals, transportation and care for, no one would blink an eye if you charged them. The fact that you are related should have nothing to do with the fact that you deserve to be compensated for your time and the opportunity cost of not being able to have another, probably more lucrative, occupation. Our mothers chose to give birth to us and care for us when we were young...when we became adults, we were expected to provide for ourselves, barring any disability. This is why we have retirement savings accounts, etc., so that we can provide for ourselves in our elder years. Your mother ˆshouldˆpay her own way. Anyone in their right mind would be embarrassed to be sponging off their relatives. I know my mom prides herself in being able to contribute something at least financially, because there is very little she can do physically to help around the house. That said, the amount certainly should be reasonable and a person in good conscience would not make it into an opportunity for enrichment. The other thing is, if you can't work because you're caring for a relative, you can't earn the active income you need to be able to contribue to your own tax-advantaged retirement account, and the cycle continues...and the good advice is to have that agreement in writing (something I've yet to do, but I keep a good accounting of where the money goes!) May you be thoughtfully guided in your decision :)
Hello tomfass! I was also made the fiduciary of my mom's VA Aid and Attendance Benefit account. Since we had to move to a single family condo where everything is on one floor and also because I had to quit my job to take care of her full-time, I thought it was only fair that she pay in the form of room and board. It has been 9 months now since we moved her in with us, and back in March or April we had a VA Rep come out to visit. Just FYI, he had no problem with the rent and cost of food, i.e., room and board, being paid out of her VA account. Also, he also had no problem with the cost of her respite care coming out of the VA account either. Other than room and board, I am not being reimbursed in any other way for her care and don't expect to be. Even though considering the cost of nursing homes (8,000 to 10,000/month), 'round the clock home health care (10,000-12,000/month), or memory care units (5,000-6,000/month) these days I feel that she is getting a real bargain with me!However, my husband does help out by paying the utilities, taking us out to eat occasionally, etc. Also, I do agree that you should consult with an eldercare attorney and an agreement should be in place before you decide to try and pay yourself out of her VA Account for her care. Otherwise, those funds would be considered a gift and possible penalties might result. I know in the case of my mother, we went through The Center for Elder Veteran's Rights to assist with obtaining her VA Benefits for a one-time fee, and then they represent her for the rest of her life or until she no longer qualifies for the VA Benefit. I believe they are located in Nashville.
I lived with my mother and NEVER asked or received any "paycheck" for doing it. Most adult children do it out of the kindness of their hearts. This is your mother after all!
My wife's mother, who is financially independent, reimburses us $2000 a month, compared to $5000 a month she would be paying if she was in assisted living. I checked with my accountant and he said I had nothing to worry about since it is still below what she is allowed to gift to each of us.
These discussions drive me crazy! There are those that think children should care for parents, give up their lives, spend their own money to provide necessities all while saving parents money for inheritance to those nonhelping siblings. And then there are the cases of the only child that don't have anybody that they will have to share with. And really wacko siblings that think the child caregiver that has moved into parents house to provide necessary care should also pay parents rent?! Yes ideas run the gamut and there will never be any sort of consensus on this issue.
So those of you that are able to provide for your parents free of charge that is indeed very noble of you for what ever reason you do it.
For those of you that are paid to provide care, you are very fortunate that siblings are not in the middle of it with their grubby little hands waiting for the inheritance.
Then those of you who are not paid because there just is not any resources available, you all are just noble in my opinion.
And those of you where parent has sufficient resources to pay you my hope is you do not have a fight with greedy siblings to try to reach a fair and equitable agreement.
The VA will allow Pension benefits to be used to pay reasonable room and board to live in the caregivers home. Contact the Fiduciary Hub that initially appointed you fiduciary and tell them you wish to adjust the manner in which the benefit is being applied. They will send you the requisite paperwork. Make sure you keep an excellent paper trail for the next visit from the Fiduciary Hub representative. I have many clients who are using funds in this manner and it is perfectly acceptable.
Llamalover47, I usually don't get in the middle of these destructive discussions but your comment and that of the some of the others as hateful as they are made me chime. Some people give up jobs, family homes to be their parents caregivers. They have to pay the bills somehow.
Geez,,that is cheesy. Mom should not have to pay rent and utilities. She took care of you as long as you needed it and now its your turn to take care of her.
If anyone is paying rent while living in your home, don't you pay income (rental income) tax on that? Do some financial planning with the elder law attorney, include yourselves in the planning.
Megan2014 and llamalover47, answer this senerio. A professional caregiver has to work, no other way to support self. She works as a caregiver for private clients.Mother becomes sick now needs care. Should said professional put mom in a nursing home as she can continue working and have her own life or should she except offer from mom to come work as caregiver for her so she can stay at home? What would you do if it was your mom?
You will have to do some research and find some comparable rooms for rent in your area. You will have to print out that info and take a median figure.
Having your mom in your house will increase water, elec, gas and consumables such and paper products, detergent, food, etc. She could even pay a proportion of you mortgage/rent.
Don't even think of trying to get paid for your time as a care giver. Just be happy with this agreement as it will make your life easier. Getting paid for your time requires more paperwork than I think most people are prepared to do.
A room and board agreement written up by an estate/elder law attny will hold up under medicaid lookback.
An agreement will do two things:
Ease your financial pain.
Spend down her money legally.If she is headed for NH anyway and will eventually go on medicaid, why give it to the feds? Either you get or they get it. Your choice.
The funds must be used for her care, and reasonable room and board is a part of that equation. Just as a nursing home provides a roof and food, so do you.
~am not sure what to say to you...or how i feel about the Reminbursement you want from your Mother.
I have a big knot in my throat from reading it.
That is her right, just as it's your right to disagree with her.
There are some legal and financial issues here that could benefit from consultation with either an estate planning attorney, VA attorney specialist or tax specialist.
You're right though that these are good answers on which to focus. I'm sure a lot of posters are reading this and thinking of their own situations and whether or not they agree with the OP's approach. It's probably better to keep that out of the equation, as you more or less suggested.
So those of you that are able to provide for your parents free of charge that is indeed very noble of you for what ever reason you do it.
For those of you that are paid to provide care, you are very fortunate that siblings are not in the middle of it with their grubby little hands waiting for the inheritance.
Then those of you who are not paid because there just is not any resources available, you all are just noble in my opinion.
And those of you where parent has sufficient resources to pay you my hope is you do not have a fight with greedy siblings to try to reach a fair and equitable agreement.
I have many clients who are using funds in this manner and it is perfectly acceptable.
Do some financial planning with the elder law attorney, include yourselves in the planning.