Hmmm, well, all I know it it about took an atom bomb to get MY mom out of here.
I look at it this way. Had someone come up to me 10 years ago and told me that if I did all I just did for 10 long years, that if I would go through what I went though, for 10 long years, that if I gave up my life, career, prospects, future, relationships, money, freedom, heath, sanity, etc, etc, etc, for that long, endless amount of time, If I did a JOB for FREE for 10 long years, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week around the clock for 5 of them, I could have.....A HOUSE! Wheeee! Yeah, boy, that's certainly an offer I wouldn't refuse!
You say they keep their parent at home so that they can have the house? Is the parent clean and fed and taken care of? The only problem is that the parent is raring to go to a nursing home, but are being forced to stay home and aren't happy? Too damn bad. Then they should have made alternate arrangements, and left ME the hell out of it. If at the very end I knew the only thing keeping me off the streets was that HOUSE, because I had been care taking for years, damn right my mom's old ass would have been right here if that's what it took for me to walk away with SOMETHING, so be it, whether she was happy or not. I don't blame them for wanting the house, if that's all there is for them after care giving is over, and if that means the elderly parent is 'forced' into unhappiness to stay there, oh freaking well. Let them deal with it. And I don't care if that does sound lousy.
Is your parent your mother or father. I have read some of your things and you speak from far back. Are you a hands-on caregiver to your mother? Your profile says she is at home, but you say she isn't. And you have a ward? Is that your mother or someone else? And you asked about caregiver exclusion from Medicaid Recovery. Please let us know a little more about yourself in your profile, so we can put a clear picture together.
My dad has repeatedly said "I'm going to die in this house! NO ONE thinks this is a good idea..even my mom. They have been married 56 years and financially it makes more sense to do whatever we can to keep them there...and by "WE" I mean ME....out of 4 siblings I do 99.9% of the caregiving and in order to honor my dads wish of staying in his house (.even though it's not the perfect solution)I am paid a whopping $75 a week (with my parents blessing).
I am the oldest of 3 children and have the POA, which means that I pay all of mom's bills, do her banking, take her to appointments, consult with her doctors and caregivers and a LOT more!! Mom now lives in an ALF b/c she has Alz. I think my sibs thought that I would take mom into my home and care for her, but I couldn't do it without it putting a big strain on my marriage...plus I wouldn't have any life at all b/c mom is so dependent and needy and would want me with her 24/7!!! (THEY didn't offer to take mom in, even though my bro has a big house.) I sold mom's house almost 4 years ago when she was unable to live alone and I had to do everything to get it ready, That not only meant clearing the house of everything, getting it painted and carpeted to sell, but the time consuming job of sorting thru boxes and MORE boxes of papers, bank documents going back many years from different banks, tax records, etc. I didn't get an ounce of help from my sibs, but my sister had the nerve to challenge me when I gave away a grandfather clock to a friend that spent a lot of his time and effort helping us out. I had offered her the clock but she didn't have the space for it and declined. She was upset that I didn't sell the clock to get some money. (Moving a grandfather clock requires a lot of work to disassemble the inner parts for shipping and our friend that got the clock was a collector of clocks and knew how to disassemble and ship the clock to his house...not to mention that my husband and I felt the clock "got a good home :) My sis was not willing to advertise or take any responsibility for the clock---just wanted money!! Enough about the clock :) My sibs have accused me of taking money from mom for myself, which is totally untrue! I found tons of checks that were written out to them by my mom and step-dad (he's deceased now) for anything from boarding their dog for their vacation, a gym membership, checks to "CASH" for hundreds of dollars! I have not asked (I know mom would have given it if I asked)for a cent from mom. It has gotten to the point that when mom runs out of money for her Assisted Living Facility and has to go onto Medicaid, she will only get a paltry monthly allowance from Medicaid. (The amount varies in different states. Here, it is around $50/month) That is to cover whatever she wants or needs----whether it is chewing gum or a pair of pajamas, toiletries, etc. Mom is now 89 and gets her hair done weekly (she still gets her hair colored and permed) b/c she has always liked to look nice and I take her for a manicure twice a month. There is no reason that if mom wants to continue to get her hair done (about $30-$100) or her manicures ($25) she should not get it b/c she gave away a lot of money to my sibs. Therefore, I consulted an eldercare attorney and he suggested that I pay myself an hourly wage for everything that I do for mom, based on the average wage a companion would get in the county that we live in, which is $21/hr. I have been doing this and average over $300/month b/c I document EVERYTHING that I do for mom. BUT: the savings account is in my name but it is ear marked for mom's use when she goes onto Medicaid----I am not spending it on me. IF there is anything left over when mom passes, I will divide it with my sibs.
ngs.. for everything that you have done, you should get it all really. people seem to think it is an honour to be poa, it's an unpaid time consuming job! I'm sorry you have been left with all the load, I know the feeling! Once your mum is gone, you will be able to sleep at night, no guilt, no shame! be proud of yourself :-)
Norlund568: I would let her house fall apart before I would spend one cent of my money on her home so her children will inherit it. If they became ticked I would let them manage it. I would go back to whom ever set up that dollar amount that has to be saved and show them, that this amount is impossible, you are having to pay YOUR MONEY TO CARE FOR HER!!! THOSE KIDS SHOULD ONLY INHERIT WHAT IS LEFT AFTER SHE DIES, WHAT MONEY SHE GETS NOW SHOULD BE SPENT ON HER CARE AND EXPENSES.
You are a better person than I am because it would be a cold day in H--L before I would pay out MY money so her kids can have an inheritance...BS!!! ticks me off for you!
I agree with Sunflo2. My husband and I have taken care of first his elderly Aunt who had no children and then my Mother in law became ill at the same time and has had to have 24/7 care. There are other family members that could have helped us take care of both of these loved ones but chose not too, Instead they questioned everything we did/do. We had a small business that we ended up having to close due to Estate squabbles from family members that didn't agree that we deserved the estate left to my husband, who did everything for his Aunt, they thought she had hundreds of thousands of dollars stashed away, which she did have at one time 'years ago' but ended up living off of it because her SSI wasn't enough, but they wanted their part but didn't want to help her when she needed their help. All I can say to them is "Where were you when?..." Now we are having to care for my Mother in law 24/7 as she has mobility, breathing, incontinence, dementia, anxiety just to name a few. She has been in the hospital and then rehab, which was the only break we got to have any kind of life of our own. I say this but the 28 days she was in rehab we were there to see her everyday, driving 35 miles one way, she has a daughter but she hasn't been any help to us during the last 3 years. Yes she lived out of state for part of this time but even when she was living within sight of her mothers home she didn't come and sit with her so we could have a break because they don't get along all that well. I'm getting off the subject here, during all this time that we have been caring for our loved ones we have closed our business and have depleted just about all of our assets and their is no help for relative care givers in our area, and my Mother in law doesn't draw enough to pay for someone to help let alone pay us. The help that is offered through medicare is Home Health, don't get me wrong they are all good people but they aren't here to give us a break, the charges just to sign up and have a RN come out to evaluate the elderly patients needs are outrageous. If my Mother in law didn't have medicare there would be no way she could pay the $800+ just for the evaluation for them to come and check her BP, Temp, pulse, Blood Oxygen, listen to her lungs and ask a book of questions. They don't come and stay with her for more than an hour, then they come 2 days a week to do the same thing and if required they have an aide come help her bathe, this is when we could run to the store or to run an errand that wouldn't take more than an hour. Don't get me wrong it was more help than we were getting from family members but we are tired and stressed, feel unappreciated and alone with no where to turn. I've heard quality of life for a person who is ill but when it comes down to it a relative care giver has no quality of life, it's over when you are a 24/7 care giver.
jcvalley- Hourly vs salary? It sounds like you are still discounting your value to save money for others. So, you sit there in the house sometimes for hours with nothing yo do? But who would do it if you didn't, or if you weren't there? My suggestion to you is to check what home care providers in your area charge, compare it to salary, just because you are sitting doesn't mean you shouldn't be paid for that time.
I agree with Jesse Belle Give A Hug . We need to support one another not judge and criticize one another. Unfortunately, we get too much off that from the siblings that don't help. Please help me, my elderly mother, my family and all caregivers who may be experiencing something similar by reading my petition, signing it and forwarding it to others to sign. We truly need your help. I know, as a caregiver your time is limited but this petition really needs your help. Take just a few extra minutes to click on the link below and help this petition with your signature. Thank you in advance.
I take care of my mother for free. She lives with us. I had to put additional money into her care because her income was being taken by another family member. Her doctors say she has to have 24-and-7 care due to mental health issues. She's 90 and a fall risk: never alone. She's already too complicated for AL. I do not doubt you take excellent care of your mother. So do I. When it's time for her to go into skilled nursing, I want all her assets to be available so she does not end up in some dump. I'm looking at a place right now that has boatloads of activities and socialization opportunities. I think it would make her final years very enjoyable. It would be about $7,000 a month and she would still come each night to be with us for supper and family stuff and overnight. Then back to the "lockup" during the day.
whiteknight, I hope you are able to do that. Sometimes with dementia it can be disorienting to go between one place and another. As dementia progresses, people tend to isolate. It can be too hard to interact with people and harder to remember who they are. Often trust is lost.
I met a lady at the doctor's office this week that was in late stage Alzheimer's. She was no longer with us mentally, but was quite happy. She couldn't walk or talk, but she enjoyed kicking her shoes off on the floor for her daughter to pick up. And she knew her daughter and you could tell from her expression that she felt much love for her. Sometimes in what looks like tragedy is a little ray of sunshine. I wish it could be like that for everyone.
gladimhere, I am struggling with this very issue. I do not want to devalue my work here. But I also don't want to take money as a salary that I'm not really earning. My intent is to hire out as much as possible to save my own sanity. So perhaps there is a middle ground. I am tracking all my hours, and my husband's for everything we do. My grandfather is amenable to paying us as caregivers. But I guess I want to make sure I am not overpaying myself.
As has been mentioned many times, there is an opportunity cost here. I could make more money. So I'm sorting through all of this and will have a little sit down with the family when I'm clear on everything. I only started living with my grandfather in June. So we are sorting it all out.
In my area my mom would have paid someone about $15- 20+ bucks an hour to do what I did for 5 years for nothing... But let's go with the low end, let's say $15 an hour...
$15 per hour x 24 hours = $360...a DAY. $360.00 a day x 7 days = $2520 per week, x 4 weeks, $10, 080.00 per month. Considering that some of the NHs around here are almost that much, is that so far fetched? $10, 080 x 12 months = $120,960 a year. $120,960 x 5 years = $604,600 my mom would have paid anyone else to be her live in, 24/7 companion for years on end.
Like I said, my mom couldn't afford me. Was my time and effort all these years worth that amount? All and more, yes indeed. And she got it all for nothing. And might have free care again if she comes back from respite. Isn't that nice?
The above sums don't count the first 5 years that I was here, and still working...you know, when I was paying HER the vast majority of all my paychecks and taxes. Free housekeeper and maid and caretaker, and I got to pay HER for me to do it all! Damn, life is sweet for some people, isn't it?
I'm taking every dime I can get out of her estate. Every. Single. Dime. Yup. And if I had sibs that hadn't done sh*t? They wouldn't get sh*t. Sucks for them, hmmm?
A commenter here could be one of my family members. I know nothing about the facts in their case and I am not commenting on them. In our case it was mostly all lies, exaggerations, and half truths. In my opinion there was financial exploitation, neglect, and abuse. And they talked a very similar game: I was a slave; I interrupted my life; I deserve it all, etc. The reality, and I am talking our case not theirs, was radically different. So whenever I hear that sort of speech, my radar starts beeping.
This is why there should be very stringent laws on how much family members can earn as care givers. The barter value of what elderly person is providing should be included in compensation. The barter value in our case was around $50,000 to 60,000 per year. Nationwide, there are some terrible examples of what can go wrong. In our case, they attempted to earn far more than the most expensive of nursing homes. After being paid a very large amount of money, their lawyer tried to talk the trustee into transferring a mansion to them based upon the 2-year rule. Fortunately the trustee did not fall for it and there will be funds to pay for skilled nursing for my mother if and when it is needed. Her own family members had no problem with sending her to medicaid. She's eligible for a NH now due to mental illness, but we love having her in our home. I love taking care of her. My days are 16 hours at minimum. I never knew I could go to so many Doctors' offices a year. She does not want us to take care of her when she is unable to do certain things for herself, and she has my promise that at that time she will go to skilled nursing.
So am I a slave. Hell no. Did I interrupt my life? Yes, she is my mother. Is working 16 to 18 hours a day for 7 days a week hard for me? No, it is not hard.
There are Medicaid regulations on what a family caregiver can be paid which is the amount that is charged by home care agencies in your area. In my area, the care providers also add $3.00 a hour is a suitable for place is not available for the caregiver. If a sleeping place is not provided then it becomes around the clock care for another $3.00 an hour. These hired caregivers do not pay for groceries, prescriptions, doctor copays, gasoline or utilities out of the hourly wage. Then if you want to consider overtime that many family members on this site do, the cost skyrockets. Home care is expensive, no question, and who benefits if the care is free? Other beneficiaries that in many cases do nothing.
Whoops, In my area, the care providers also add $3.00 a hour if a suitable for place for sleep is not available for the caregiver. If no sleeping place is provided then the charge is an additional $3.00 an hour.
My dad has lived in my home for 1 1/2 years now with my husband and myself. I am the primary caregiver, I lost my job 3 years ago. For over a year prior to moving here, I drove to my dad's house (3 hours away,) and spent a week every month cooking, cleaning, yard work, doctor's appointments, etc. Dad pays $1200.00 into the house every month, divide that by 160 hours (a 40 hour a week job,) I get $7.50 per hour!! No more 401, no paying into Social Security. I told my absentee sibling right out the gate he was paying this because I didn't want to hear about it later. Damn straight I take it! Beyond the work to care for my dad, our lives have turned upside down. We can't go anywhere as dad can't be left alone, I neglect my own needs, husband and I are both getting stressed out. Dad does not want to entertain respite care, only wants family. A short trip to the grocery is a break I sneak in some days. I could go on and on, but then I'm just ranting. Bottom line, if they offer up, take the money, you have certainly earned it! My dad is financially fine, living here for $1200.00 with all needs taken care of is a lot cheaper than a nursing home, and he knows that. He has no long term care set up, if it does happen that he has to go to skilled nursing, there goes the money and I'm sure some family members will not be happy with that. I signed up for this, so I need to accept the consequences of care giving. But I will also accept my $7.50 and hour!
58yearoldchild, and how many hours do you actually have responsibility for? I suspect twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week. Have you looked at what the cost would be for overtime at time and a half over the course of a year, about 76,000 a year on top of the regular 40 hours at 7.50? It is astronomical! This is definitely not a 40 hour a week job, don't sell yourself short!
gladimhere, I guess my point is, go ahead and take the money, My dad sat and thought about the $1200.00, I know he thought it be "a little steep." The math is easy, that's where I got the $7.50 an hour figure. I was making $25.00 an hour plus 401, pension and SSI. So, this sucks. And yeah, it's 24/7, so what do I or anybody else out there do? This is huge for all in this situation, what are the baby boomer lives going to be like later when we have lost the earning ability, myself I was 55 when I got laid off. Now at 58, I can't even find a menial job. Oh I forgot to mention, I have had TWO offers to care take my friend's wife and another's friend. NO THANKS.
What nice offers, you could open your own adult day care facility, NO THANKS! My situation is very similar to yours, laid off 4.5 years ago. Then a short stint that paid very well but position again yet again. People, especially sibs thin this is a walk in the park! I'd like to see either of mine survive just one week of this. They have absolutely no clue!
Oh man, this subject is red hot! If my dad ends up in skilled nursing, we've got two choices: One of three VA facilities that provide skilled nursing in California that are out in the middle of nowhere, or, a home that will eat up his funds. And honestly, I've got a couple of siblings and their spouses who are waiting for their big slice of the pie! Hope they choke on it, can't even call the old man once in a while let alone visit. I know what I do everyday, they have ZERO clue except they know dad has money. Vultures! I remember the raised eyebrows when I told them what ad was paying into the house, They wouldn't clean my dad's ass for $7.50 (and I do!)
I'm with you all the way, 58. *hugs* Somehow, someway, I'd turn that situation around and make it so that my care giving days were paid for, ALL of them, and bet the sibs would be getting a whole lot less, if anything... That's ridiculous...
Yeah, it would a real eye opener, that's for sure! It cost my dad $5,800.00 a month to have mom in skilled nursing. When he got her on MediCal, (which took about a year,) it went down $529.00 a month. That's a shot in the arm for the kids! So if, dad has to leave my home and won't go the VA route, then their goes their nest egg. Bawaahhhhh!
We survive because of the $$$ dad gives us. I'm in Ventura, California. Between the 99 Cent Store, Big Lots, the day old bakery, and, my personal favorite, the meat counter mark down section, we make it happen. Husband and I have very little after the bills get paid, groceries, fuel, the usual. That $1200.00 is less than half of what I brought home, and no 401, SSI, or pension to boot. Husband lost his job 4 1/2 years ago, went from $26.00 and all the Teamster bene's plus overtime to now $17.00 hr. Woo hoo! That's how I make it happen.
Financially and legal opinions were given to me, as I posted before, and its $15 an hour for only 8 hours a day ($10 on the weekend) for pay. EVerything has to be done legal, documented, and pay taxes on it. (which is 30% you have to take out of your check) Anything over 8 hours is considered "daughterly duties" I was advised. I saved it all and then it went back to my Mom when her money ran out. Now its on us but its ok, shes my Mom and the damn siblings who havent done a thing will get what they deserve, nothing. good luck
Excuse me, that 10 hours (not $) on weekends at $15 per hour. All in all $600 mon-Fri and $300 for the weekend. ($900 a week-30% taxes saved out = $630 a week total pay !) This is why you dont chose $7.50 per hour because of taxes you'll pay at the end of the year. You have to, if a sibling ever reported an audit, you'ld be screwed. After 4 years of this, I hired a weekend person because at this rate my cute little Momma might outlive me so I need hubby , kids and grandchildren time.
I look at it this way. Had someone come up to me 10 years ago and told me that if I did all I just did for 10 long years, that if I would go through what I went though, for 10 long years, that if I gave up my life, career, prospects, future, relationships, money, freedom, heath, sanity, etc, etc, etc, for that long, endless amount of time, If I did a JOB for FREE for 10 long years, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week around the clock for 5 of them, I could have.....A HOUSE! Wheeee! Yeah, boy, that's certainly an offer I wouldn't refuse!
You say they keep their parent at home so that they can have the house? Is the parent clean and fed and taken care of? The only problem is that the parent is raring to go to a nursing home, but are being forced to stay home and aren't happy? Too damn bad. Then they should have made alternate arrangements, and left ME the hell out of it. If at the very end I knew the only thing keeping me off the streets was that HOUSE, because I had been care taking for years, damn right my mom's old ass would have been right here if that's what it took for me to walk away with SOMETHING, so be it, whether she was happy or not. I don't blame them for wanting the house, if that's all there is for them after care giving is over, and if that means the elderly parent is 'forced' into unhappiness to stay there, oh freaking well. Let them deal with it. And I don't care if that does sound lousy.
I think my sibs thought that I would take mom into my home and care for her, but I couldn't do it without it putting a big strain on my marriage...plus I wouldn't have any life at all b/c mom is so dependent and needy and would want me with her 24/7!!! (THEY didn't offer to take mom in, even though my bro has a big house.) I sold mom's house almost 4 years ago when she was unable to live alone and I had to do everything to get it ready, That not only meant clearing the house of everything, getting it painted and carpeted to sell, but the time consuming job of sorting thru boxes and MORE boxes of papers, bank documents going back many years from different banks, tax records, etc. I didn't get an ounce of help from my sibs, but my sister had the nerve to challenge me when I gave away a grandfather clock to a friend that spent a lot of his time and effort helping us out. I had offered her the clock but she didn't have the space for it and declined. She was upset that I didn't sell the clock to get some money. (Moving a grandfather clock requires a lot of work to disassemble the inner parts for shipping and our friend that got the clock was a collector of clocks and knew how to disassemble and ship the clock to his house...not to mention that my husband and I felt the clock "got a good home :)
My sis was not willing to advertise or take any responsibility for the clock---just wanted money!! Enough about the clock :) My sibs have accused me of taking money from mom for myself, which is totally untrue! I found tons of checks that were written out to them by my mom and step-dad (he's deceased now) for anything from boarding their dog for their vacation, a gym membership, checks to "CASH" for hundreds of dollars! I have not asked (I know mom would have given it if I asked)for a cent from mom. It has gotten to the point that when mom runs out of money for her Assisted Living Facility and has to go onto Medicaid, she will only get a paltry monthly allowance from Medicaid. (The amount varies in different states. Here, it is around $50/month) That is to cover whatever she wants or needs----whether it is chewing gum or a pair of pajamas, toiletries, etc. Mom is now 89 and gets her hair done weekly (she still gets her hair colored and permed) b/c she has always liked to look nice and I take her for a manicure twice a month. There is no reason that if mom wants to continue to get her hair done (about $30-$100) or her manicures ($25) she should not get it b/c she gave away a lot of money to my sibs.
Therefore, I consulted an eldercare attorney and he suggested that I pay myself an hourly wage for everything that I do for mom, based on the average wage a companion would get in the county that we live in, which is $21/hr.
I have been doing this and average over $300/month b/c I document EVERYTHING that I do for mom. BUT: the savings account is in my name but it is ear marked for mom's use when she goes onto Medicaid----I am not spending it on me. IF there is anything left over when mom passes, I will divide it with my sibs.
You are a better person than I am because it would be a cold day in H--L before I would pay out MY money so her kids can have an inheritance...BS!!! ticks me off for you!
Hourly vs salary? It sounds like you are still discounting your value to save money for others. So, you sit there in the house sometimes for hours with nothing yo do? But who would do it if you didn't, or if you weren't there? My suggestion to you is to check what home care providers in your area charge, compare it to salary, just because you are sitting doesn't mean you shouldn't be paid for that time.
http://www.change.org/petitions/ameriprise-financial-create-procedures-that-protect-elderly-rights-access-to-their-funds
I met a lady at the doctor's office this week that was in late stage Alzheimer's. She was no longer with us mentally, but was quite happy. She couldn't walk or talk, but she enjoyed kicking her shoes off on the floor for her daughter to pick up. And she knew her daughter and you could tell from her expression that she felt much love for her. Sometimes in what looks like tragedy is a little ray of sunshine. I wish it could be like that for everyone.
As has been mentioned many times, there is an opportunity cost here. I could make more money. So I'm sorting through all of this and will have a little sit down with the family when I'm clear on everything. I only started living with my grandfather in June. So we are sorting it all out.
$15 per hour x 24 hours = $360...a DAY. $360.00 a day x 7 days = $2520 per week, x 4 weeks, $10, 080.00 per month. Considering that some of the NHs around here are almost that much, is that so far fetched? $10, 080 x 12 months = $120,960 a year. $120,960 x 5 years = $604,600 my mom would have paid anyone else to be her live in, 24/7 companion for years on end.
Like I said, my mom couldn't afford me. Was my time and effort all these years worth that amount? All and more, yes indeed. And she got it all for nothing. And might have free care again if she comes back from respite. Isn't that nice?
I'm taking every dime I can get out of her estate. Every. Single. Dime. Yup. And if I had sibs that hadn't done sh*t? They wouldn't get sh*t. Sucks for them, hmmm?
This is why there should be very stringent laws on how much family members can earn as care givers. The barter value of what elderly person is providing should be included in compensation. The barter value in our case was around $50,000 to 60,000 per year. Nationwide, there are some terrible examples of what can go wrong. In our case, they attempted to earn far more than the most expensive of nursing homes. After being paid a very large amount of money, their lawyer tried to talk the trustee into transferring a mansion to them based upon the 2-year rule. Fortunately the trustee did not fall for it and there will be funds to pay for skilled nursing for my mother if and when it is needed. Her own family members had no problem with sending her to medicaid. She's eligible for a NH now due to mental illness, but we love having her in our home. I love taking care of her. My days are 16 hours at minimum. I never knew I could go to so many Doctors' offices a year. She does not want us to take care of her when she is unable to do certain things for herself, and she has my promise that at that time she will go to skilled nursing.
So am I a slave. Hell no. Did I interrupt my life? Yes, she is my mother. Is working 16 to 18 hours a day for 7 days a week hard for me? No, it is not hard.
In my area, the care providers also add $3.00 a hour if a suitable for place for sleep is not available for the caregiver. If no sleeping place is provided then the charge is an additional $3.00 an hour.
BTW I say I want more $.....