Trying to keep as simple as possible as I’ve posted several times about our situation with 90 yo mom. I and my brother have POA.
She is not progressing in PT and can’t go home anymore. She thinks she is but she absolutely can’t. She can’t even get out of bed. Social worker told me 2 days ago they would decide whether she needs AL or LTC. She could likely only push discharge out until June. Still haven’t heard anything definite from the SW even though I’ve left a message.
I don’t even know where to start to navigate this whole thing. There never was a long term plan made even though I’ve been pushing her and my brother to make one as the handwriting was on the wall for a while. Now we’re staring down the barrel of the proverbial gun.
my brother is MIA this week and my mother is in lala land telling everyone she is going home next week and she’ll just ‘have to work hard’ there. Right. I CANNOT care for her. And I told the SW as much. Don’t know about brother and wife who have helped with her care as they don’t talk to me about it. — Yeah as one person on the forum put it, it’s a poop show.
She has her house and a few cash assets that would be easily wiped out in months.
We’re in NC. So how should I begin? With an elder care attorney who also specializes in Medicaid? Doubt if I could even get an appt in time.
So overwhelming but I’ve got to start somewhere. Just wish the SW at the rehab facility would get back with me.
I think you are right to step back. I am sure this hurts a lot.
You had your mother's best interests at heart. I suspect your brother does not.
We have to do what we can live with, all while protecting ourselves from the nonsense of others.
I am glad that it was a good visit and you feel like it went well.
I am so sorry that she is acting like she doesn't know what is going on, and that it can be sorted out. Is she all there mentally?
Please know that brother and SIL may eventually rue the day that they worked so hard to control your Mom's care...
I wish you a full recovery going forward.
And yes I’m getting all the hurt and tears out. now because I’m having to grieve the loss of something that apparently wasn’t really there to begin with and it’s sometimes a devastating realization.
My mother set us up for failure. As was said 2 POAs could not work - so I had already made the decision to step away even further than I had. And stemming from the realization it was obviously out of my hands and a force was working against me behind the scenes.
that decision was giving me peace for maybe a day. Then I was blindsided once again. I guess I crossed him once too many times. I think it was somewha of a vindictive move for getting the guy out of mom’s house. Along with trying to do my part to help her that they didn’t agree with. He is a controller and I just didn’t realize to what extent until now. Interestingly he sent his wife to do his bidding to serve me the document. He didn’t have the guts to do it himself. He’s the puppet master.
But now Mom’s happy because she has 2 ppl giving up their lives to give her what she wants, to go home and have someone at her beck and call. Or at least she thinks so. Will see how it plays out but I will be watching from afar.
The funny thing is the NH just called to tell me about her urology appt. So apparently she’s having more urinary issues, retention etc. Guess they’ll have to figure it out. I won’t be telling them.
As for your brother and his wife, good riddance to bad rubbish.
I would encourage you to NOT be watching from afar or near or watching at all. Let it go and let them deal with it, ALL of it.
I know all of this is easier said than done but, just starting is 1 step towards letting it all go. They aren't worth your time.
I can’t believe how horrible I feel. Every time I think I’ve come to another decision I can live with…. Another bomb drops. If you want to know more you can read the back story.
My SIL just showed up at my door and ‘served’ me with papers revoking my POA for my mom. All she said was ‘this is for you’ turned her back and walked away.
Why do I feel so devastated???
All I know is because I tried to talk to mom about the FPOA and how to get her bills paid. I was not trying to go behind her back but just by trying to get things done. Through this whole thing they have cut me out of any discussion I’ve tried to initiate. So I thought I had an obligation to talk to my mom. But as I’ve mentioned she lets them coach her. But I’m supposed to ‘fix’ any problem we have.
I honestly have been doing the research and NOT trying to be dishonest. I was NOT trying to cut them out of anything.
I just am having a terrible time coping with this. And yes it may be no surprise. I just did not realize the manipulation involved and the extent to which they would go.
Thanks for listening.
I suggest to you that you resign your POA.
Looks like that has been done FOR you.
I would tell all that you are greatly relieved that this is in brother's hands now, and step away.
If you continue to be your own worse enemy in all this I doubt there is help for you, and I would suggest counseling.
Mom starts spending down and she can be kept informed. Her doctor can be realistic to her that she cannot go home and keep telling her the same. You keep saying unsafe discharge and that you are not available for her care.
The reason you get her in a Medicaid facility is that when Medicad paperwork is being done, she goes higher on the wait list. If she is a good one, then great. If she goes home and then finds out she needs Medicaid, the wait list is longer and then it becomes like Russian Roulette. The easy open beds are not always in the better facilities.
Wishing you wisdom and peace in your heart as you work through the family dynamics.
Take care of you and don't let her emotionally abuse you with her situation.
She'll either do okay or she won't, not your choice or consequences to deal with.
Just curious, why didn't your brother open his empty house to his friend?
EDIT: Wag, I would encourage you to let her and brother deal with any DGPOA, she will break your heart if you set it all up and she assigns it to him. She causes you misery, avoid situations that play in to that.
I definitely will consider your advice. Still coming to terms with exactly what I should help with so she doesn’t feel I’ve abandoned her while also protecting myself.
As far as her emotional abuse, Mom detected the tension and told me ‘I don’t want a broken family’. Denial apparently is a common thread through our family. She doesn’t even realize it’s DECADES too late for that. I have 3 other brothers who are MIA. I’m the only girl. But I’m supposed to ‘fix it’. Make what you will of that.
As far as the house ‘guest’ I don’t know what he did because my brother didn’t consult me. We did tell the guy to go stay at my brother’s house but he said it was too far away. My thinking is if a person really needs a place to stay they’ll take what they can get.
it’s been quite the week. Mom has had some improvement as she was diagnosed with pneumonia and put on antibiotics. She was a complete mess. I do believe the infection had an effect on her cognitively. Now it’s 2-1/2 weeks into rehab with very little progress although the last therapy day mom said she did well and they told her ‘she was strong’. She still has 2-3 weeks of no weight on the broken hip side. She still has to toilet in bed. It’s almost 4 weeks since her surgery.
Today my brother and SIL who have now refused to talk to me because I told his friend he let stay in my moms house during this crisis he could not stay there, swooped in unexpectedly from their vacation and told mom he was going to help her get back home. We walked in her room at rehab and there they were. They stomped out of the room and he told mom he was leaving and motioned for my SIL to come too. Mom then told me my brother is coming everyday to do therapy with her so that she can get back like she was and take care of herself.
I told her as sweetly as I could that I would support her emotionally but I would not be able to care for her physically as I feel she would need much more care than I could provide. She said she understood.
She said ‘ I’m not going to be an invalid and I want to go home and I’m going to go home.’ I told her all I was trying to do is prepare her in case that was not possible. I believe she is living in a fantasy world but so is my brother. If he can get her home good for him but now it’s ALL on him. I’m stepping back from all her physical care.
Hope he’s happy but he hates me and all I’ve done is stand up for my mom. I’m trying to come to terms with that. They really just would like me out of the picture. That’s very evident. I don’t even know what I’ve done other than stand up to him. He has totally cut me out of any discussion about mom. It’s really strange to me. But it’s a family legacy among the males in our family to estrange themselves from other members. Unfortunately the legacy continues but that was his choice not mine.
But He’s the hero to mom. He will save her from her 90 yo self. She truly believes she will be able to care for herself independently in her own home again. Guess I’ll let her have that fantasy.
Mom did agree to let me get someone in there to do a financial POA as she does not have one, in case we need it. Not sure exactly sure how I will execute that but I’m thankful she does still have the cognitive function to do this. I’ll at least have something.
I love my mom but she has created misery for me. I’m so done with it all. There’s very little positive coming out of this last part of her life and I have no clue when it will end.
You have now informed Mom and bro you won't be participating. I would send a letter of resignation of medical POA to mother and brother, and step back and out of decision.
Refer all phone calls from discharge planning facility to brother and tell them that you are no longer in any way involved in discharge planning for a mother who is uncooperative and unrealistic, and with a brother who is non-participatory to any of your attempts to communicate.
IN OTHER WORDS TELL THEM ALL that you will gladly visit, but won't participate in care or in planning for care.
Good luck. This will likely mean that Mom will be placed. If not, boom, back she goes to the hospital when you call APS for wellness check on her if you're worried.
Continue to stand strong which is your only help (slight as it is) to get your mother the safe care she now requires.
The SW can get the paperwork together for Medicaid. Meanwhile, start spending her $$$ on 2 important things. Those are a funeral spending account or trust and her legal expenses can be spent on her care. Do not worry about spending too quickly. All is for getting her into LTC and on Medicaid. Once she is on it, you can hold her account to pay for those personal needs such as haircuts as she will only receive around $50 each month. Then POA will be easy peasey.
Being in NC, there are some decent NHs as compared to SC. Especially if near the cities.
You tell them that she cannot return home, it would be an "unsafe discharge" because there will be no one to care for her. First, because she is beyond your ability to care for her and Second, there is no money for aides to come in 24/7. She needs Longterm care and thats where she should be transferred to. ALs cost money, Medicaid rarely pays for them.
You Need to stand your ground. Once everything is in order, then you tell Mom she is not returning home. That her care is beyond you and brothers capabilities.
I am fully in touch with the reality of the situation and to the point I’m not worrying about my brother any longer.
I can’t keep going back and forth trying to include him. I believe now he just doesn’t want to be included. Just had enough.
Good luck. Keep us informed. Do tell them NOW that she cannot return home to home care or independence nor can she live with you. She needs placement. Get them on this now.
If no one picks mom up at rehab, then she's still rehab's problem. And no, mom isn't going to work extra hard at home. Because she isn't going there.
You need either to resign your POA, and refer ALL CALLS TO BROTHER or you need to embrace it and brother needs to resign.
I said this yesterday. You cannot have two people doing one legal function.
If you are not POA then this is brother's problem.
If you are POA you need to tell the Social Workers to get placement going YESTERDAY. Time is wasting. There will never be a better time to get her placed.
Or you can continue to dither around with no one in charge, no plans made, mom going home inappropriately, sending her back to the ER and starting all over again with who knows what broken this time.
My advice is to let the Social Workers know TODAY that they must seek in facility placement for mom. PERIOD. Let brother know by text you are doing so.
Don't worry so much about her house and cash assets. Whatever LTC she lands in will take care of the Medicaid application. Don't let this scare you.
Your mother cannot go home. No ifs, ands, or buts. DO NOT let any of the healthcare "team" talk you into taking her home on the promise of all kinds of resources and homecare being made available if you do. This is a LIE rehabs, hospitals, clinics, etc... tell families to get a person out of their facility. Believe me, there are no such resources available to regular people unless they have a spectacular LTC inusrance policy and even then there also has to be some big cash assets as well.
Stay strong and refuse to allow your mother to go home. They cannot just drop her off if her home is unsafe and there's no one to take care of her there. Be VERY careful about any paperwork the rehab may ask you to sign. If you don't understand some paperwork, tell them a lawyer must look over it first before you sign it. Make sure your brother knows this too.
Never sign anything with just your name either. Always sign 'POA' and put your mother's name too. If only your signature appears on paperwork they can stick you with "expenses" the insurance didn't cover and you can be legally liable to pay. Be careful.
You are in a terrible situation and I get it because I've been there myself. It will be okay though. So long as you don't give in and agree to take her home and you're very careful about anything you sign for her.
I am only her healthcare POA. She doesn’t have a financial one. Unfortunately.
This is going to be hard but doable.
You need to tell mom straight out that she will not be able to return home until she is mobile, period.
Be open and honest with her about her needing more care than can be safely provided by her aging children who are adults with families and responsibilities of their own. She doesn't want to be remembered as the selfish old hag that was willing to take her kids out so she didn't have to make changes, does she?
She will either freak out or understand, neither of which obligates you to step in to prop her up.
This is a very hard time, oh man do I remember the feelings you are having, but standing strong in your decisions is the only way to get through this. No matter how you feel, she needs more care than you can provide. It doesn't matter what your brother thinks, he went mia during decision time, speaks volumes of his cowardice, imo.
Go see the social worker and tell them, until they get it, she is an unsafe discharge. Then ask them for ideas about finding her placement that meets her care needs and that she can afford. My dad's rehab facility gave me a senior placement specialist phone number. This helped me find a facility that he could afford, he was 14.00 a month over the threshold for assistance.
I, personally, recommend board and care homes. They have a better caregiver to patient ratio, feel more homey and are way cheaper. My dad wouldn't use all the amenities in a large facility, so it didn't make sense to have him paying for these services. A bedridden patient won't be using them either.
What can she realistically afford monthly? This is where you want to place her. Having savings and money from the sale of her house will be her cushion for future care needs.
You can Google senior placement specialist and even use a few, I did because there are thousands of facilities in my state and I wanted different options. It paid off in the end, I got lots of options for my dad and found a reasonably priced place in a good location for me to visit easily.
You got this! Oh, I do recommend a box of kleenex in your car, this is a hugely emotional situation and tears are to be expected from all.
Find a good facility that accepts Medicaid. Learn how to sign paperwork as her PoA and have her go in on private pay. Tell your Mom a therapeutic fib: that she's there for "more rehab so she can return home". Medicaid will cover her medical care 100% once she qualifies finanially and her SS income will cover her custodial care 100% (room and board).
My MIL was in an excellent faith-based LTC facility for 7 years (and AL prior to that). She would always when she was getting out of there and we would just tell her the doctor can't discharge her until she can demonstrate her ADLs to them. Then she'd say, "I can get out of bed and walk!" and I'd say, "Oh good! Let's see it so you can go home" and when she couldn't then she'd be grumpy but not at me, at "the doctor".
Otherwise your Mom will need to hire 24/7 in-home aids. This will require her being an employer, and paying as much or more than being in a facility, and very little of it would be covered by Medicaid (plus the PoAs would be managing the aids).
Start by making sure they know she's an unsafe discharge and then find a facility. You can use Nextdoor.com and ask non-anonymous people in your community their personal experiences with local facilities. I use it all the time for recommendations
I wish you success getting through this step. Eat the elephant one bite at a time.
And that same social worker or the social worker at her new facility can help you apply for Medicaid for your mom.
And it may be best that you show up in person at the rehab center to speak in person with the social worker, rather than waiting for them to return your call.