Daughter's concern over mom's POA paying for healthcare if accessible funds are depleted, mishandled. Advice?

pstiegman (that's a hard one to type!),
I tried to google where to get more info on what you just said - as this is exactly how my Mom has been paying those who help her.

Do you know where I can find it or what I type in to a search engine?

Thanks....

JA's: The question is too complex for a simple all-encompassing answer, but shortly Mom will probably need a NH and medicaid will look back five years at any income or expenditures that she had. If she acted as their employer and paid them wages for services, it needs to be proven. If she cannot account for the expenditures, simply took out cash and handed it out from her savings, Medicaid will penalize her for that, and simply not cover her. You need to know the Medicaid laws of the state she is in. You are right, her real property will need to be sold off at some point.

As I said, my mother has meagre savings, they are hers. I will use them to make sure she is cared for. I will also have to go into my own retirement meagre savings to help her. I will do it. What is this all about, an inheritance, as far as I can see there is none. So, I will spend my money for her care and leave myself out there. It is horrible to say the least, but I will do all I can to help her and well for me, I just don't know. Don't worry about savings, or inheritance, it just will more than likely not be there.

Hi -
Since posting:
1. no word ever from Mom's atty
2. she signed it to caregiver/son equally
3. I know because this morning I must have caught her in a motherly moment and she agreed to let me have a copy. I teleconferenced atty on phone with us and we asked him to send a copy of it to me and I threw in "will" as well.
4. Brother/Me get "real property" in will and son gets anything else - of which I doubt there will be anything else. As said above, I don't there will be a house as well, depending on her healthcare needs. I hope there are years of care needed, tho', as I DO love her.

My concern is STILL about what the PoA can do. It is a Durable PofA and nowhere that I can see does it say any transactions must be to her benefit. I've contacted the State Bar and they've referred me to a local atty.

I also STILL want to know how this atty qualified my mom knowing that she had been diagnosed with dementia (tho' not in writing)(I even gave him my mother's doctor's name and timeframe) to sign this document and did she understand each of the Powers she was giving away. When I asked her this morning she only said that she was happy now and didn't worry about the future.

Of particular concern are/were the phrases: real property transactions, personal and family maintenance (?), benefits from social security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.

I see that this is so far reaching and so insidious that one would think it would have been a bigger topic with a bigger voice. Or have I just not known because it hasn't hit me until now. I've only been worrying about puppy mills and CNN. So much more, but that's another topic, huh.....

You're doing what you should do, Debralee: doing what is in the best interest of your mom to make sure her care needs are addressed over time. You've also made the decision that your mom coming to live with you is not an option. At least you know what you can and can not do; what you are willing to do and not do. You're being honest with yourself and are committed to making sure your mom's savings will be used to provide her with good care in a safe environment.

My mom has dementia and no short term memory. She has no idea what's going on from one minute to the next. And her wishes, regarding the use of her savings for her care, have been discarded by her POA, to benefit the POA at my mother's expense.

Quite frankly, unless our parents are very rich, the issue of inheritance, and waiting "for their fair share," isn't even a realistic concern. The vast majority of aging parents in need of care have no savings, modest savings or only enough to support their care over a longer period of time. Parents who are very rich, more often than not, make sure checks and balances are provisioned, so family POAs, or legal representatives can not use their money for anything other than what parents specify.

It's unfortunate that parents of lesser means do not provision checks and balances to discourage POA abuse. My mother is by no means a rich woman, but she worked very hard for over 30 years, saved religiously, and told each of her children that if she ever fell ill and was unable to care for herself, her savings should be used for her care. He savings are gone, were not used for her care and though I tried, I could not prevent it.

Everything that my mother owns his hers. I do not or would not take what is not mine to take. I care for nothing physical, what I care for his her. She was a very materialistic person, she liked the mink coat. So here I am with a mink coat that I just detest. These are things, she coveted them and what do they mean today, nothing. I don't know if I can ever wear that coat, but I can tell you it is a lesson to be learned from.

I have durable POA for my mother, executor to her estate and joint on checking account. I am adament about using her assets for her care if it should come to that. My mother wants to live in her own home until she dies and if not move in with me to make sure her assets go to her heirs which I am one of. I have no intention of taking on a 24/7 responsibility so others can wait for their fair share of the estate. My mother is so obsessed about the inheritence she refuses to acknowledge that my decision to utilize her assets for her care if it should come to that, could wipe out any inheritence. Her assumptions will never become my reality. As long as she is being cared for in a safe environment is the only concern I have and I use her assets for that care!

I certainly understand how you feel. I used to take care of my Mom before she went to stay with my sister in another state. In 4 short years, 30 years of my mothers savings was used by my sister to pay college tuition for her child. My sister is also Executor for my Mom's estate.

Those who say, "Forget about the money. Be happy someone is taking care of your Mom," don't seem to understand that breach of fiduciary trust is about NOT caring for Mom; that using Mom's money for personal gain is NOT in Mom's best interest. If a family caregiver can't handle fiduciary responsibilities because he or she is emotionally compromised by stress/burn-out, that family caregiver should either: Work with family members who are willing to take over caregiving or solicit help from family members and/or legal professionals with respect to developing a management plan for Mom's finances.

When a parent saves for years to fund their retirement, and over the years, state time and again, the importance of their savings for assisting with their care, those statements should recognized and respected by family POAs. And while the vast majority of parents would have no problem with full-time family caregivers receiving a stipend from their savings for providing care, most would no doubt be concerned if their adult child drained their savings for college tuition or any other big ticket expenses at the expense of their parent. This is a breach of trust -- one that can have a direct impact on the parent's care options as the need to adjust care develops over time. It represents a loss of choice -- the difference between having in-home care during a crisis or not having extra assistance or access to medical options that otherwise would've been affordable.

I see this happening now with my Mom, who's in need of the kind of high-priced medical care that must be paid for up-front, and is not covered by Medicare. She would've had many choices had it not been for her resources being drained by her POA. In my case, speaking up for my Mom has basically resulted in my siblings cutting me off. I want my Mom to come and stay with me, but my sister who is POA and Executor, has shut down every attempt I've made to bring my Mom to my home.

I've seen much criticism of other siblings by siblings who are caring for parents. Other siblings are often characterized as "greedy," and "only concerned with preserving inheritance," when in fact most of these siblings are concerned about preserving care choices and quality of life for parents over time.

I hope things work out for you. I don't know if talking to attorneys or reporting to APC makes a difference since the law basically allows POAs to have full power over their Principal's lives. This results in other siblings/family members having very little say in decisions regarding their parent's care or finances.

I hope things work out for you.

I'm hoping that the case was closed, but I just called for a follow up (left message). We'll see. Sounds like you had experience.....

little warning when it comes to APS be very careful because once they get in on something they will turn your lives upside down and no one but the state will get your mothers estate and finaces and they will toss her in a Nursing home and then you will be paying out the butt for lawyers and everything else ... these people will make up all kinds of lies to get what they want when they want it .. so before you contact them seriously ask yourself is your mothers life worth handing to people that really do not care

All of you are so wonderful and sympathetic and WISE.
As of this morning, my mother's attorney "should" be reading the fax that I poured my heart into and sent him last night. I explained the "background" of my concerns, the present situation, the fact that I "did" recently call APS as I fear "someone" brought a bag of candy into the house (her room) whereby she ate half the bag and her BSugar went up to 500. That, to me, is directly abuse in her situation.
I don't know what will happen. All of your points are correct. Could my husband and I take care of her if all else fails? Yes and we would. We I do everything else I could do legally "get the sucker"?!? I don't know. My brother and I have been out of my mom's will since 2004 because of him and it took a long time to get over that. My mom has chosen him over us in any situation for years as well, and it's taken "not yet" for me to get over that one. So I don't know. Especially as she changes. BUT, saying that, I DO know that she's happy and cared for now. I'm just projecting into the future, and perhaps that's wrong. If I'm lucky, I'll be posting in the future that I lucked out and they wrote a beautiful obituary for her.

BUT, if I can, I'll let you know what the attorney does re: PofA and her safety.

Fingers crossed!

Be thankful that there is someone there to take care of your mother, and forget about the money. She would be in a NH if not for them. In a worst case scenario, if you had them arrested for draining her accounts, you would have to go back to East Texas and take care of her. Are you able to do that?

Oh dear, I sure feel your pain. What would I do, could I do? I am the executor of my mother's will and her enduring power of attorney. So legally they found nothing wrong with this. I would contact her lawyer and talk to him and see what he can do for you. If your mother is competent to make the poa then her wishes will trump yours. I hope that the lawyer can put your wishes in the POA and that mom will see the sense in this and agree, good luck.

I just recently filed a complaint against family members with Adult Protective Services re: a similar situation. I also petitioned the court w/my mother's agreement & became her legal voluntary guardian. For elders who are not alert, there is involuntary legal guardian. Some things to consider....

This is a very difficult situation and amazingly similar to my own situation. I've been told that I need a lawyer. A hospital social worker has been encouraging me to "fix" the situation. I was also told by a legal expert that the executor of the will and the POA should never be the same person. It seems as though there is a huge chance that your mother's care could be compromised if her POA is unwilling to use the house to pay for her care. You might also contact Adult Protective Services and express your concern. If there is suspected endangerment of any kind, they will send someone to investigate.