I was informed by the director and the NH my mom has too much money n her trust account. Since I'm POA do I have the authority to take it out and put it n a savings account at the bank
If mom is on Medicaid, she needs to spend down that money. Moving it to a savings account does not get the dollar amount under the limit. Putting it in a savings account in your name would cause a gift penalty and be a violation of POA laws. Ask the director for suggestions how to spend down.
If she is on medicaid you HAVE to spend it on her. Buy clothes , toiletries, haircut, stuff for her room, take her out to lunch. Keep the receipts, copy & save the copies, then bring them and have the NH reimburse you. I try to keep up with this spending- I buy slippers, shoes, glasses,clothes by the ton. It is HARD to buy stuff when they are in the NH- but they will tell you how to spend it!
I don't want my mothers money but I will not stand by and allow them to tell mom that she can't have her money that's in the trust I would rather put it n a account and save for her burial !!
I believe the NH made a mistake by telling her how much money is in her trust account! After visiting today I've heard rumors about NHs taking care of residents money and stealing from them ... I would rather do it myself but was told I had to be a representative payee ??? Is this true
No point in being representative payee, let the check go directly to the nursing home. You can legally spend down by getting her hair done monthly, buy some new clothes or furniture, but NOT by gifting.
I won't say how much is n her account! But it's almost impossible to take mother out sometimes! I would love to take her shopping etc but today mother insisted on helping me with my finances !!
I just read your profile; you need to ask for either an accounting of or restitution for the two $200 withdrawals that were made from your mom's account.
You can become your mother's representative payee for SS. Go to the Soc. Sec. website and find out how.
They gave me 3 receipts, and by no means did they total $200.00 ! Funny thing I found out yesterday mom had change $22.00 WOW 😞 !! The NH isn't being helpful at all
I've never been in this situation but if there are issues of how the home is managing her money, I would think that it acts as a fiduciary and should have to account for its management of the funds to your mother.
I would also talk to your banker about setting up a savings account in your mother's name with you as an authorized signatory as proxy under a POA. At least then you wouldn't be obligated to spend it.
Becoming the Representative Payee requires bookkeeping and answering to the SS administration. Plus, with someone who gets Medicaid, most of the money will go to the facility for her care. That leaves a small monthly amount to manage. Seems like a lot of time and energy investment, when the facility can do it.
If you spend those funds on her behalf for clothes, toiletries, personal items, etc., then, they should reimburse you. The total has to be kept down under a certain amount or she may lose her eligibility.
If the facility has her funds in trust, they have to keep a record and provide it to the POA upon request. Usually, Medicaid will ask for a copy at least once a year for their review of her eligibility.
You mentioned your moms funeral. Could you look into a pre need purchase of a funeral at a funeral home and then spend the money each month ( or quarter) as a payment on her funeral? Might be an easy solution.
Kitty - if mom is on Medicaid, whatever she has set aside as assets - whether she still has a checking account, savings account or NH personal needs trust account - the $ cannot exceed the asset limit of 2k every month. It sounds like the NH is getting mom's income each month - like her SS check or retirement check - and the $ that set apart for her Personal Needs is going into a PNA trust account at the NH. PNA varies by state. Like for my mom in TX it was $ 60 a mo. If her PNA has gotten too high, then it becomes an issue for Medicaid and will make her ineligible. Neither you or mom or the NH want that to happen.
What I've found in the mice maze adventure that is dealing with Medicaid, is that many of the rules aren't clear to figure out. Your mom's PNA $ can be withdrawn by you if your her DPOA & used to buy her clothes, toiletries, pay on a low cost premium funeral policy. NH biz office should have a ledger just for this purpose.
Some NH have charges that are not covered by Medicaid - like in room phone or cable - and those monthly charges are taken from the PNA. Other NH have them on weekly beauty shoppe visits and the PNA gets spent that way.
But other NH's just let the $ sit. Problem is that it builds up $ each month and then becomes a problem for Medicaid eligibility as moms assets go over 2k. There have been posts on this from family who didn;t understand the PNA system and the Nh went and bought mom an expensive wheelchair to get her over 2K PNA down to under $ 100.
Before you get all upset with the NH, go to biz office and review her PNA funds from her first month @ the NH. If she has been there for a while, it could well be that the NH had mom spend $ 200 or whatever on an outing so she's totally under the asset limit for Medicaid.
BTW mom does NOT have to have her income go to the NH directly. Mom could continue to have a checking account with a check written each mo to the NH for her co-pay and you let the PNA build in her account each mo. I did it this way for my mom at both NH mom was in. Now some NH will press on family for the direct deposit/making NH payee as its easier on all. But they cannot make you do it this way. But if payments are late, there will be late fees that you (not mom) owes. If you miss a payment, mom can be taken off Medicaid. So only go this route if you can be totally all-in for making mom's co-pay to the NH like clockwork.
This is an easy question with an easy solution. Withdraw all the money from her account except for a small amount for ongoing, regular expenses. Open a checking, savings, or (careful here) investment account with that money, in your own name. Keep it separate from your personal funds; use it for your mother's expenses. That's what I'm doing.
I'm sorry, the answer to the question you actually *asked is yes. Again, I would put the money in your name (in a separate account from your personal funds) to avoid having the same issue you're having now. As POA, you can access her accounts and act on her behalf. I would also suggest you re-read your POA document. Know the powers it contains. That way, no one can lie to you
pamstegma you are very helpful. Thank you! I am getting my 93 yr old mom set up with Memory Care today. I am POA both health and financial. I have a joint checking and savings with her SS going direct deposit into checking each month. It sounds like having the facility take over the bookkeeping would be an answer to a dream with them providing a financial report each month or quarterly. This is what I had in my mind but does that sound like a solid plan? Social Security is her only income and no other assets.
Is Medicaid paying for your Mom's care? If "yes," it's your duty under the Power of Attorney document to manage her business in a way that will not disqualify her from continued coverage for her care. A Medicaid resident can not own countable assets worth more than $2,000, but there are many categories of NONcountable assets.
What is the current balance of your Mom's personal needs account at the nursing home? Ask the nursing home administrator. If your Mom is a Medicaid resident and she is over Medicaid's allowable asset amount, you could use the excess assets to pay for things that she needs that are non countable.
Talk with an elder law attorney in your state, who can guide you to make the best decisions to protect your Mom, and you.
Sadly, spend down means buying possible unneeded items, e. g. televisions, a lot of clothing, etc. Thinking back, I now believe that my late mother MAY have done something deemed illegal by Medicaid standards. She was in charge of her older brother when he applied for Medicaid. He deceased. Then she returned a bunch of items that were purchased under the Medicaid spend down rules. It's a moot point now since she also is deceased, but still?
I just want to do things the right way and not get into any trouble with Medicaid and or social security! I am POA the NH gets mothers SS and the money for salon visits etc goes into her trust ! The trust account was building so I had them to take it out they sent me the check ! It's issued to mom in care of me ! My question is - what do I do with it ? Become representative payee ? Open a checking account in moms name ? I would like to get a pre paid card and load money on it give it to the NH so if they go out mom has money To spend! And I can keep track on line of what she spends !! I don't know what to do and I don't want mom to lose Medicaid
Kittycatzgt, you're worrying needlessly. Stop. Put the money in an account in your own name. There's no point in putting it in your mom's name since she will not be accessing it, and doing that you would run the risk of her having "too much" money in her name for Medicaid. Spend it on her expenses.
If you don't feel comfortable with a "ghost" account --even though no one will even look, or know--then cash the check! Again, spend it on your mom. Here are some suggestions: pre-paid funeral expenses, a burial plot, a day-date-and time clock from the Alzheimer's store if she has dementia ($75), in fact, you can spend an awful lot in the store on ALZ.org which would benefit your mom if she has dementia, her OWN hospital pillows (brand new hospital pillow from Amazon), soft towels for her to use, her own comforter for her bed, get 3, you'll have to switch them out, clothing from Macy's, PJs from the Macy' Spa Collection (so soft), cranberry pills, a month's worth of toothpaste, floss, body wash, the expensive shampoo or conditioner, artwork for her walls, a nice lamp, books, crayons, a small radio, I could go on...
My mother is in a nursing home on medicaid and we were saving her trust fund for final expenses and try to keep it under 2000.00 because of medicaid,but just recently I surrenered her policy because I think they were trying to miss a payment to cancel(I kept it active) They sent a check for 2250.15 which will need to be put toward a plan for for her funeral of given to the nursing home.Can the money be spent on a coffin or other needs,at 96 I am going to face a problem.I have until the end of this month to get a receipt to satisfie nh.Please any advice Thank You!
I appreciate everyone helping me with all the advice !! I'm doing the best I can and want to do it the right way and the legal way ! I guess the best possible answer would be to go to SS and go from there !!
kittycatzgt, You should NOT be POA or representative payee. When you said "mom helped me with my finances" you gave yourself away. You are just looking for ways to get your hands on her "excess" money. As POA, you have violated the law.
I try to keep up with this spending- I buy slippers, shoes, glasses,clothes by the ton. It is HARD to buy stuff when they are in the NH- but they will tell you how to spend it!
You can become your mother's representative payee for SS. Go to the Soc. Sec. website and find out how.
I would also talk to your banker about setting up a savings account in your mother's name with you as an authorized signatory as proxy under a POA. At least then you wouldn't be obligated to spend it.
If you spend those funds on her behalf for clothes, toiletries, personal items, etc., then, they should reimburse you. The total has to be kept down under a certain amount or she may lose her eligibility.
If the facility has her funds in trust, they have to keep a record and provide it to the POA upon request. Usually, Medicaid will ask for a copy at least once a year for their review of her eligibility.
What I've found in the mice maze adventure that is dealing with Medicaid, is that many of the rules aren't clear to figure out. Your mom's PNA $ can be withdrawn by you if your her DPOA & used to buy her clothes, toiletries, pay on a low cost premium funeral policy. NH biz office should have a ledger just for this purpose.
Some NH have charges that are not covered by Medicaid - like in room phone or cable - and those monthly charges are taken from the PNA. Other NH have them on weekly beauty shoppe visits and the PNA gets spent that way.
But other NH's just let the $ sit. Problem is that it builds up $ each month and then becomes a problem for Medicaid eligibility as moms assets go over 2k. There have been posts on this from family who didn;t understand the PNA system and the Nh went and bought mom an expensive wheelchair to get her over 2K PNA down to under $ 100.
Before you get all upset with the NH, go to biz office and review her PNA funds from her first month @ the NH. If she has been there for a while, it could well be that the NH had mom spend $ 200 or whatever on an outing so she's totally under the asset limit for Medicaid.
BTW mom does NOT have to have her income go to the NH directly. Mom could continue to have a checking account with a check written each mo to the NH for her co-pay and you let the PNA build in her account each mo. I did it this way for my mom at both NH mom was in. Now some NH will press on family for the direct deposit/making NH payee as its easier on all. But they cannot make you do it this way. But if payments are late, there will be late fees that you (not mom) owes. If you miss a payment, mom can be taken off Medicaid. So only go this route if you can be totally all-in for making mom's co-pay to the NH like clockwork.
What is the current balance of your Mom's personal needs account at the nursing home? Ask the nursing home administrator. If your Mom is a Medicaid resident and she is over Medicaid's allowable asset amount, you could use the excess assets to pay for things that she needs that are non countable.
Talk with an elder law attorney in your state, who can guide you to make the best decisions to protect your Mom, and you.
I am POA the NH gets mothers SS and the money for salon visits etc goes into her trust !
The trust account was building so I had them to take it out they sent me the check !
It's issued to mom in care of me !
My question is - what do I do with it ?
Become representative payee ?
Open a checking account in moms name ?
I would like to get a pre paid card and load money on it give it to the NH so if they go out mom has money To spend! And I can keep track on line of what she spends !!
I don't know what to do and I don't want mom to lose Medicaid
If you don't feel comfortable with a "ghost" account --even though no one will even look, or know--then cash the check! Again, spend it on your mom. Here are some suggestions: pre-paid funeral expenses, a burial plot, a day-date-and time clock from the Alzheimer's store if she has dementia ($75), in fact, you can spend an awful lot in the store on ALZ.org which would benefit your mom if she has dementia, her OWN hospital pillows (brand new hospital pillow from Amazon), soft towels for her to use, her own comforter for her bed, get 3, you'll have to switch them out, clothing from Macy's, PJs from the Macy' Spa Collection (so soft), cranberry pills, a month's worth of toothpaste, floss, body wash, the expensive shampoo or conditioner, artwork for her walls, a nice lamp, books, crayons, a small radio, I could go on...
I'm doing the best I can and want to do it the right way and the legal way !
I guess the best possible answer would be to go to SS and go from there !!