If I get POA does that mean my Grandma can't give money to people without me knowing? - AgingCare.com

If I get POA does that mean my Grandma can't give money to people without me knowing?

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ok, i know i posted before, but i need people to know the truth so i can see if i am the only one who has dealt with this. my grandma, all her life, has gravitated to those who 'need' her. this means that she cannot think anyone loves her unless they need her help, or that she can't show her love any other way than by giving in to her family's stupid demands, no matter how ridiculous. when she was younger, she gave in to everything my mom wanted, going so far as to allow my mom to steal my gma's syringes (that she needed for her b12 injections) to use for meth. my mom stole gma's wedding rings, and gma still didn't call the cops, this was when i was under the age of 18. now i am 30, and my grandma is being financially exploited. my just-turned-18 year old sister has been getting gma to pay for her horse board, buy new horses, pay for vet care and everything else that goes with owning three horses since she was 14. if gma only had $50 left after paying for everything, and my sister wanted a new pair of sneakers even though she had numerous pairs, she would get gma to buy them for her even though they had no food money for the rest of the month. my uncle is even worse. he is 49 and has lived with my gma and been supported by her his entire life, except for 10 years give or take while he was married or living with a girlfriend. i grew up not having food or proper clothing (gma had custody of me and all 7 of my brothers and sisters) because my uncle would get money for beer, or cigarettes, or gas, or $300 to take a girl out on a date, etc. now my sister has been convincing my gma to let her get out payday loans and she makes up stupid reasons why she needs the money. for example, my sis told gma she needed $150 to go to a horse show, when really she went and got her belly button pierced. (she showed me the piercing) she tells my gma she needed $500 for her dog deposit (a dog that has been at my gma's house making her trip and fall constantly because the dog is always under gma's walker, a dog that is there even though there aren't dogs allowed at the rental house, a dog that has destroyed the house with its chewing and my gma will have to pay to fix all this!!!) and when i confronted her with it, she told my gma to her face that she was a liar, that she never told her it was for the dog, it was for her horse board, even though the horse board had already been paid through another check. my uncle put himself on gma's bank account, and goes and takes money for gambling out whenever he wants. when i showed gma her bank statement that showed that money was being taken out at a casino, she swore she allowed it, even though i could tell she didn't know. how does someone deal with a person who allows this to happen to them and lies to protect them? my uncle could have been arrested a dozen times but my gma lies to the police to keep him out of jail. i just don't understand, yet i am the bad guy because i took her to change her bank account numbers and put a ban on any checks being cashed that are written as 'cash', and for all transactions to go through my email! she think's she's 'helping' my uncle and my sister, and refuses to believe she's being used as a personal atm! even though not a single one of her household bills has been paid since october, i am still the bad guy because i tell her not to give them money! yet she is still 'sane' enough for me to not be able to get guardianship! does getting poa allow me to make financial decisions for her? if i get poa does that mean she can't give money to people without me knowing, and can i prosecute them, even without her permission, if they steal from her?

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The POA only allows you to take care of financial issues for your grandma. It doesn't keep her from her own money. To my knowledge, the only way to do this would be to get guardianship for her which is a long court process. She'd have to be judged incompetent by doctors. It's not an easy task.
You could get the help of an elder law attorney because of the people taking advantage of her. I'm not sure how much help that would be unless your grandma wants help, but you could talk with one and see. Many attorneys give one free session to discuss the problem.
Good luck,
Carol
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Your Grandma is so lucky to have an angel like you looking over her, and keeping aware of what's going on. Unfortunately, it sounds as though she isn't willing to change this long standing behavior of enabling the weak ones in the family. They will keep on taking advantage and she'll keep on allowing it until it all goes down the drain, which won't be too long it sounds like, if she hasn't paid any bills since October. You at least have been successful in getting her checking account activity to go through your e-mail so you know what is happening. You're keeping an eye on her bank statements, that's good too. Would it do any good if you talked to the leeches, and explained to them that once your Grandma runs out of money....NONE of them, including Grandma, will have a roof over their head. Would it be at all possible to get Grandma to leave the rental, and move in with you? That could solve a lot of problems. One thing would be the leeches would have no place to live.....so sad, ha ha. You could get POA for Grandma, and see if you can get her to change her bank account and get Uncle off of it, and YOU on it. Tell her she could still help Uncle with things that are necessary to help him straighten his life out, but giving him cash to gamble is only going to help him further destruct. As for the 18 year old sis, it's time for her to go bye bye too. She's an adult now, and will sponge off of Grandma forever if she's allowed to. If Grandma moves out.....even if it's only for a period of time to get rid of the rest of them, she could later rent a smaller one-bedroom maybe close to you, and things would be better. (Are the 49 year old uncle and the 18 year old sis the only ones still living w/ her?) Whatever you decide, just keep on being a friend and advocate to your Grandma. You may get very frustrated with her for not listening to you and not following your good advice, but don't give up on her, and throw her to the wolves entirely. Even though she won't stop letting the others take advantage of her, she definitely needs one good family member, YOU, who will always be watching over her, and loving her for who she is, not what you can get from her. You are very strong, and she is so lucky to have you!!!!
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Oh, one other thought I had as to the POA. You may be listed as POA for finance, but Gma will need a POA for health as well. This is very important and I'll tell you why. My Mother fell, took her to E.R. they would not release her to us without a POA for health. My nephew a Racine, County sheriff, came and talked to them, he told us that we had to get that POA for health or they would put her in a nursing home of their choice and she would have to pay for it. In other words the hospital has the power not to release a person to their family without a legal health document!
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Your Mom can still give anyone money. I agree with ejbunicorn, just report the other family members if you feel they are taking advantage of her. At least the case would be open and they would monitor the people that are giving you trouble. Maybe that would stop them if they knew someone was on to them.
Good luck, isn't it sad you have to go that far to protect Mom? From supposedly loving family members.
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Unfortunately, or fortunately, people have the right to make decisions for themselves--even bad decisions. A POA for finances is only in effect when a physician says she is no longer capable to make her own decisions or under other conditions which she would stipulate. A legal guardian does not have control of finances, but a conservator does. This is a legal process and you would need an attorney. You can report any of the family members for adult abuse--financial exploitation, but if your grandma tells the investigators she gave the money willingly, there probably won't be a founded case of abuse. Would she be willing to work with a money manager to help her figure out a way to share her money yet still keep enough for her needs? You can't change her behavior or her personality, but you can continue to let her know you care.
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This is a very difficult situation. Your grandmother thinks she is helping but she really is an enabler to all the mooches in your family. Is there a minister or close friend that your grandmother respects and would listen to?? If not, then set up bill payment for your grandmother on-line and get rid of her checks. Bills will be paid and money can be taken out for groceries and other expenses but no checks handy for "family hand-outs" from granny. Your family needs to learn the hard lesson of working hard and doing for themselves. It's called "tough love". Do it and help your grandmother to not be taken advantage of anymore. If your sister can't afford her horses....well then they'll have to be sold. That's the reality of life. No money= no fun time.
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believe me, i would love to mind my own business but she makes it my business because she knows she needs help. we had to move her to my brother's house because she was unable to pay rent or any of her bills so she had to leave her rental. she was with me when we changed the bank account, she wanted it done but afterward she was mad. she can't be by herself, and my brother works all day. my uncle is in jail for unrelated issues so he's not there with her all day. as the only one able to be her daily caretaker, this responsibility has fallen to me. so far i've gotten her aarp reinstated, her life insurance paid up (it was past due for three months), her medicare back, one of the payday loans paid off, and i am now in the process of finding out how much she owes her old utilities in order to get them paid, so far it's over $2,000 because none of them have been paid in three months. she allowed my brother and i to get financial poa for her so we're finally making some progress.
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The only way a POA would help prevent her giving money you didn't know about, would be if she didn't have available cash on hand and you carried the checkbook and wrote all the checks. BUT if she wanted to write one and you didn't approve, you really couldn't LEGALLY stop her, she still have the right to do it.. To obtain a POA, she would have to willingly and understandably sign before wittnesses and a notary that this is her wish. It would be better to alert Elder Abuse and the bank to the situation so you have some docementation of these incidences, Good Luck
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I also had POA before my mom developed dementia and was not competent, and she LOVED to write checks and shop and buy stuff for people that they did not want or need, and we needed everything for her care. There was a period of time where she could still write legibly and might have called up QVC to buy more stuff, so I just quietly borrowed the card for that, and shifted the bill paying to online so she did not need the checkbook around. She'd let me help her with ordering gifts because it was getting cognitively and physicially hard for her anyways, so I was able to mostly keep tabs on it. I had to explain people weren't allowed to accept gifts from her for providing care, etc. in facilites, and she'd threaten to just drop the bills on the floor and leave them there if they would not take them. She did manage to slip a gift of $100.00 to someone who actually cashed the check even knowing the circumstances (!) when she found an old check in her purse, but mostly she could not remember where things were so we were usually safe. I never did track them down...well, get what control you can practically get without breaking any laws, and make sure things stay under any "gifting" limits for your state's Medicaid if that will be an issue at all, to avoid penalty periods later...

I'll hope and pray you can reason with the family "leeches" to stop leeching, but addicts in particular tend to not look ahead to the future very well if at all. Document what you are doing with the funds and keep them rigorously separated from your own, so they have no grounds to turn around and accuse you of spending improperly.
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First of all, since your grandmother is not insane or suffering from dementia and has done this all of her life, you would not be able to get a power of attorney without her consent and she is not likely to give you that. She is a grown woman who has allowed this all her life. Calling in elder abuse is ridiculous because she was doing this as a young woman and may well run you off. She would not have to work with them and could say no one has any business interfering in her business, including you and she would be right. This is how she is. Don't hide her checkbook as someone suggested. You have no right to interfere with her writing checks on her own account and your uncle could not have even gotten listed on her account without her going to the bank with him and signing approval before a notary public after showing her id. You are not going to be able to get a POA and saying something to the bank about an account that you are not on and have no authority over is not going to work. This is a long standing habit and not elder abuse. She has always done this willingly. I would advise minding your own business.
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